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what's not to love about this healing bar setup?

  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    kylewwefan wrote: »
    You want to give the best chance you can to the completion of content.

    If things go well, it may not matter what you do. In my most recent nICP run, the tank and one DD ran ahead, and handled boss fights just fine even when the other DD and/or the healer were locked out of the room for being left behind.

    And if things go badly, then actual healing helps. Frankly, with my current builds, I emergency "heal" via Earthgore procs a lot more than in any other way. But one way or the other, you should keep team members alive.

    Beyond that, Major Courage is just a great buff, better for the group than a single DD's selfish 5-piece bonus would be. So healers should always run SPC or Olorime.

    Minor Magickasteal is certainly a great debuff, benefitting at least you and (in almost all cases) your tank, even if the DDs have little use for it.

    And of course Orbs/Shards are great.

    And so, when I queue as a healer, my builds generally include:
    • Spell Power Cure
    • Earthgore
    • Radiating Regeneration
    • Combat Prayer
    • Siphon Spirt
    • A bursty heal such as Honor the Dead or Twilight Matriarch
    • Orb, except on a templar who has Blazing Spear/Luminous Shards instead

    In the runs where that's overkill, things are usually going so well that my choices also didn't hurt anything important. Or, if group DPS is really low, I can drop Combat Prayer to make room for yet more damage than I already had.
  • Stebarnz
    Stebarnz
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    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Stebarnz wrote: »
    hea
    "Healers" like this are the reason why people don't take healers along for four man and are now only using one in twelve man. You've got very little to offer besides filling a health bar. Which I hate to break it to you dps are more adept at doing because of how spell and weapon damage affect healing.

    I have no experience with healing and know 0 about the subject but. Are you saying that his setup isnt good for healing? If so- why excatly? What would you change?

    The problem with OP's and other people attitude toward healer is the fact they call this role a 'healer'. The role should be called dps/support.
    This role should pull 20k+ dps and buff the other 2 dps while keeping hots on tank and providing an emergency heal for 'oh ***' moments, also dependent on skill of player debuff mobs and boss as much as possible.
    So providing major courage, minor beserk and a regen buff is mandatory as a minimum for this role.
    Tank provides minor courage and mob debuffs mainly.

    This is an opinion for when you play with other skilled players, otherwise skilled players would run tank and just dps and remove heals, if you adopt 'healer' I just heal attitude you will not progress to endgame.

    I have played with people who can provide 30k dps, hots, emergency heals, buff out the yang and solid debuffs, aim for that and you will be asked to run a lot of content.

    As good player population dwindles and solid groups are hunting for good player additions you can meet some great guys and gals.

    I can do all you said, I run my things fine on my Templar healer, although it's more of a 25-27k DPS, not 30, and I still say to you... It's not "they call the role 'healer''. The role is called "healer". By the game. Not by anyone out of their own will, but by the designer that ultimately made a decision to call the role healer.

    Do I agree with you that it's time for a possible revision? Yes. But it's still a healer and therefore the only required job is healing.

    If you expect a healer to do more than that, it's a problem with your expectations. What you can do is -ask- your healer to do those things, and that's fine.

    Remember... You're expecting healers to do damage, instead if healing... Whatever else you say after that, you're wrong. Revise your expectations.

    As a side note: 4 roles are Tank, Healer and 2x DPS.
    Not anything different. That's not said by me, I don't agree with it most of times, and I hate were forced to conform, but a tank is a tank, a healer is a healer and a dps is a dps. There's no defined support role.

    Hence why I used the word attitude!

    If someone wants to just heal then they can, however end game will be out of their reach.

    You assumed I meant 'they' as in players, I meant 'they' as in ZOS, 'they' have mislabelled the role and it makes people who don't know any better approach the role with healing in mind as a priority, eventually people realise that to do end game content the must change from that belief and adapt to what is actually required.

    My expectations are definitely more than just healing as I run an elite group and we don't carry people, IDGAF what you think or if you think I am wrong, nobody just healing will run with me that's how it is, git gud or get kicked.
  • Stebarnz
    Stebarnz
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    Lol honestly either do the job right or not at all. A healer needs combat prayer for fights that aren't VAS. You need a resto for combat prayer. Therefore you need a resto. End of discussion. Also I'd love to see all these healers doing 30k dps or thereabouts. Let's be real the average DPS doesn't hit 30k. Your healer spec isn't doing 30k. Nor does it have to.

    Doing 30k dps is very easy! just rotate three dots and light attacks in between buff skills.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Stebarnz wrote: »


    My expectations are definitely more than just healing as I run an elite group and we don't carry people, IDGAF what you think or if you think I am wrong, nobody just healing will run with me that's how it is, git gud or get kicked.

    How is it that you run an elite group, yet find yourself in a position to group with strangers and need to kick them?
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Stebarnz wrote: »
    Lol honestly either do the job right or not at all. A healer needs combat prayer for fights that aren't VAS. You need a resto for combat prayer. Therefore you need a resto. End of discussion. Also I'd love to see all these healers doing 30k dps or thereabouts. Let's be real the average DPS doesn't hit 30k. Your healer spec isn't doing 30k. Nor does it have to.

    Doing 30k dps is very easy! just rotate three dots and light attacks in between buff skills.

    It's not quite THAT easy ...
  • TheGreatBlackBear
    TheGreatBlackBear
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    Reading this thread makes me realise that people have no clue what it means to be a pve healer at the highest levels. (Or even mid tier from some of these replies) Got people talking like combat prayer and buffing in general is optional, and about doing dps.
  • SirMewser
    SirMewser
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    Browiseth wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....

    Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.

    And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.

    Combat prayer sucks.

    @ZonasArch you're operating on the assumption that everyone always plays with A) pugs who are B ) bad at the game

    while i'm aware this is a lot of players' experiences, there are countless situations where minor berserk across the whole party with 100% uptime is really good because you know...

    it's minor berserk

    8% more damage

    all the time

    (in theory)

    so why not slot it if you have the free space

    Most people do pug and organized 4-man groups could care less with; Camouflaged Hunter, Bird of Prey, and Slimecraw.
    Only beneficiaries are those in trials making scores on time or avoiding mechanics and unlike vet dungeons, they stack.

    Combat Prayer might have excitingly stimulating text but it's a crappy ability in terms of practical application.
    We can blame individual competence on positioning but it doesn't help when most are casuals.
    That 8% damage does not translate into 8% DPS, there are better sources of this buff as mentioned.
  • SirMewser
    SirMewser
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....

    Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.

    And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.

    Combat prayer sucks.

    source.gif
    D3N7157 wrote: »
    Lol no combat prayer, no warhorn so what exactly are you wearing JG for?

    Jorvuld's Guidance
    LEVEL 50 - CP 160
    Type Dungeon
    Set bonus
    (2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
    (4 items) Adds 4% Healing Done
    (5 items) Increases the duration of all Major buffs, Minor buffs, and damage shields you apply to yourself and allies by 40%.


    for all of that

    Bruh u try to impress us with set that is used to increase uptime on minor berserk and the warhorn mostly and yet you have neither on your bar, sorry but you got to do better than that, I wouldn’t want my healer to have his bars set up like that. Y I K E R S

    Yeah, he has to do better, he shouldn't have the right to share his set. He has to run Combat Prayer and War Horn, all healers should be the same.

    Why didn't you just simply tell him to give up while you're at it?
    Oh right, because we all play for you?

    If DPS is what you're concerned about, I usually run 3 DPS and 1 Tank. Beats *** prayer and still have one run War Horny (usually Tanks anyways).
    Edited by SirMewser on September 12, 2019 1:14PM
  • hasi
    hasi
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    Reading this thread makes me realise that people have no clue what it means to be a pve healer at the highest levels. (Or even mid tier from some of these replies) Got people talking like combat prayer and buffing in general is optional, and about doing dps.

    Well, as a Healer you do Dps also. For example when wearing the Set Z'en.

    Not mainly tho like some people say here.
    Edited by hasi on September 12, 2019 2:59PM
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    Tired of going back n forth with y’all. You wanna get good at dungeon healing, I laid it out for you. Any further questions. Pm me.

    Later Taeser
    PlayStation NA
    1000+ CP
    DC Khajit NB Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Argonian Templar Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Dark Elf Sorc Stormproof
    DC High Elf NB Stormproof
    DC Dark Elf DK Stormproof
    AD Redguard DK Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Orc Warden Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Breton Warden Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Redguard Sorc Stormproof
    DC Redguard Templar Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Nord Necromancer Stormproof
    DC Breton Necromancer Stormproof Flawless Conqueror

    PlayStation EU
    258 CP
    DC Orc Warden Stormproof
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    ZonasArch wrote: »
    And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....

    Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.

    And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.

    Combat prayer sucks.

    lol, I agree. I've never been impressed with that spell either. It's incredibly frustrating to use in pugs.
  • mairwen85
    mairwen85
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....

    Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.

    And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.

    Combat prayer sucks.

    source.gif

    a battle of wills as to who is right or wrong is off topic and so wrong. if you want to have a combat prayer is mandatory for healers thread, please go start your own. thank you.
    what's not to love about this healing bar setup?

    Uhm... What I don't love is lack of combat prayer.

    Edited by mairwen85 on September 12, 2019 5:34PM
    Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?

    ~ Edgar Allen Poe
  • Stebarnz
    Stebarnz
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    Stebarnz wrote: »


    My expectations are definitely more than just healing as I run an elite group and we don't carry people, IDGAF what you think or if you think I am wrong, nobody just healing will run with me that's how it is, git gud or get kicked.

    How is it that you run an elite group, yet find yourself in a position to group with strangers and need to kick them?

    sometimes we have 3 need a fourth sometimes we have 11 need a 12th sometimes I'm just testing something so I run solo, million scenario's.

    Also I'm talking for the vast majority of people with these expectations, who tire of the carry.

    But everyone can play how they want, its all good, only a choice, only a game.
    Edited by Stebarnz on September 12, 2019 5:47PM
  • angelncelestine
    angelncelestine
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    I am sorry, but combat prayer isn't some meta only skill that doesn't need to be used. It is a skill that every healer new or seasoned should be using when able. Telling new healers that they don't need to use it imo is only doing them a disservice when it comes to learning the basics of ESO healing.
  • Vandril
    Vandril
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    Also, misgendering people is a form of abuse. Not a bruh and most def not your bruh.

    Lol, no it's not.

    No one can know your gender on the internet unless you tell them. Any expectation that they will psychically know what gender you are is unreasonable and totally on you. Heck, even assuming what gender someone right in front of you in this age where people identify as genders that don't correlate to their sex (sex and gender are different, as I'm certain you know) is unreliable.

    The English language is unfortunately ill-equipped with gender-neutral language. People will tend to call those whose sex's they don't know by the gender they themselves are, or the gender that has been more prominent in their own life. I like to call it someone's "default linguistic gender". And besides, "bruh" ain't even a word.

    Do you know what is abusive, though? Intentionally misappropriate allegations of abuse. Such as what you did there, "bruh".

    _____

    I agree with you on all this healing nonsense, though. As I have and always will say: "meta" as a concept needs to die.
    Edited by Vandril on September 12, 2019 6:41PM
    Vandril wrote: »
    Crippled to be barely useful in PVE due to fighting with exploits in PVP:

    Oh, okay. Let's see what you've liste-
    Lore

    o.O
  • ZonasArch
    ZonasArch
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    I am sorry, but combat prayer isn't some meta only skill that doesn't need to be used. It is a skill that every healer new or seasoned should be using when able. Telling new healers that they don't need to use it imo is only doing them a disservice when it comes to learning the basics of ESO healing.

    Your line of thought binds you to meta chasing. You're so tight in blindly chasing Meta, you'd have everyone following you there too! This is funny. Actually made me giggle a bit. First you deny it's Meta, then you say everyone should be using it, which is the -very definition- of Meta. 😂😶😂

    I'm done with this thread. Can't argue with people that wanna be locked in a box and only be fed strategy instead of trying anything for themselves.

    Go join the flat earth and climate change denier party with your blind Meta belief system.
  • ZonasArch
    ZonasArch
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    Wrexsoul wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    You need to keep in mind that the Meta you so eagerly Chase is set by a handful of people that literally never pug. There's a reason why they don't pug... That's because they can't. They don't know how to handle randomness and the unexpected. They don't know how to bend around the inexperienced skill-less players to make them work through a dungeon. Expecting these people to tell you what's good and what's not when you're pugging is like expecting a PvP only player to tell what's most effective against a boss in a trial. "CAP RESISTANCES, EVERYONE!" they would say. Makes no sense.

    You cannot expect people to use a sad excuse for a group skill if the group doesn't cooperate and new players will likely almost never have a cooperating group. I've healed everything there's to heal in this game except vet trials, and organized coordinated trials are where combat prayer shines, and that's about it. Everywhere else, you'll do fine without. You'll
    probably do better without.

    Imagine really thinking that the people who number crunch out top builds can't handle pugs. Pugging normal dungeons/trials is not some skill intensive endeavor that requires 200 IQ to understand its vast complexities. Of course you can do fine without prayer in normal content but that doesn't mean your group isn't worse off from you not using it. At most you may have to fire it off twice to cover the group. 2 GCDs isn't really a big deal when normal content requires very minimal healing even in the most daft of pugs.

    I really enjoyed the part of your post where you claimed most groups suck while having gone into great detail about how bad prayer is. Maybe the groups would improve if you stopped queueing into them?

    1 gdc for that scared dps, one gdc for the other, and suddenly you tank isn't fine anymore because there aren't enough hots to handle hard hitting mechanics. In two gdcs with proper hots you're only giving back maybe 10k to the tank. For good tanks, that's laughable, they don't need that. For bad tanks, 10k is a world and a half.

    Again, consider your group sucks... Not just the dps, the tank too. Not to mention fake tanks, that need burst healing every other second.

    No... Combat prayer "with at Max two gdc" isn't gonna cut it for that. Buffing is secondary, when your group is always about to die, doesn't matter how many hots they have... Or do you think everyone has cp810 with high resists and mitigation? Yeah... Number crunch that too, don't forget. A hit that takes 5k off of you, takes 10k off of a lowbie. Same for dots... Now you gotta purge too, but your synergy only works inside the Templar bubble, so imagine that... A scaredy baby DPS staying out inside a bubble getting heals and synergizing.... Does that ever happen? No... So wasting a gdc to buff him may end up getting him dead because...

    Positioning, positioning, positioning. All comes down to this. If pugs knew this, Combat prayer would work beautifully.

    And this is my last post in this thread.
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    Well, let him. I am sure he will make an exceptional PuG healer in soooooo important 4-man content.

    4-man content is nothing. We made Moonhunter HM on first attempt in a tank+3DD setup with one DD going the dungeon for the very first time. Where is your god (healer setup) now.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on September 12, 2019 7:24PM
  • Raiden_Gekkou
    Raiden_Gekkou
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    As others have said, since springs have been gutted, combat prayer is more mandatory than ever. I almost never used it before because I didn't have the bar space and never needed it, but now that's my main spammable after I put down spring, orb, and fountain.
    Xbox NA
    vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+1 | vBRP | vSS
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    SirMewser wrote: »
    Browiseth wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....

    Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.

    And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.

    Combat prayer sucks.

    @ZonasArch you're operating on the assumption that everyone always plays with A) pugs who are B ) bad at the game

    while i'm aware this is a lot of players' experiences, there are countless situations where minor berserk across the whole party with 100% uptime is really good because you know...

    it's minor berserk

    8% more damage

    all the time

    (in theory)

    so why not slot it if you have the free space

    Most people do pug and organized 4-man groups could care less with; Camouflaged Hunter, Bird of Prey, and Slimecraw.
    Only beneficiaries are those in trials making scores on time or avoiding mechanics and unlike vet dungeons, they stack.

    Combat Prayer might have excitingly stimulating text but it's a crappy ability in terms of practical application.
    We can blame individual competence on positioning but it doesn't help when most are casuals.
    That 8% damage does not translate into 8% DPS, there are better sources of this buff as mentioned.

    My guesses as to what casual players slot are rather different from yours. But I admit they're just guesses; e.g., I don't see that many procs that prove somebody isn't wearing Slimecraw. (Uh, is the red glowy arms effect of Slimecraw visible to other players, or just yourself? If the answer is that other people can see it too, then I'm actually quite sure I rarely group with people wearing it.)
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Just because people don't stack in PUGs doesn't mean Combat Prayer is not worth using. You'll just have to cast it twice, once on each DPS.

    I agree with you more than I disagree. But if I really have to cast Combat Prayer twice per rotation to make it hit everybody, and the heal aspect isn't needed at the moment, then in that fight with that group it's not the greatest skill. I'd likely still use it, since it's on my bar and alternatives are not. But half a second of DPS for the group (which is what hitting a whole group with Combat Prayer provides, heals and defensive buff aside) may not be an optimal use of a bar slot, 2 GCDs, and a lot of magicka.
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    SirMewser wrote: »
    Browiseth wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....

    Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.

    And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.

    Combat prayer sucks.

    @ZonasArch you're operating on the assumption that everyone always plays with A) pugs who are B ) bad at the game

    while i'm aware this is a lot of players' experiences, there are countless situations where minor berserk across the whole party with 100% uptime is really good because you know...

    it's minor berserk

    8% more damage

    all the time

    (in theory)

    so why not slot it if you have the free space

    Most people do pug and organized 4-man groups could care less with; Camouflaged Hunter, Bird of Prey, and Slimecraw.
    Only beneficiaries are those in trials making scores on time or avoiding mechanics and unlike vet dungeons, they stack.

    Combat Prayer might have excitingly stimulating text but it's a crappy ability in terms of practical application.
    We can blame individual competence on positioning but it doesn't help when most are casuals.
    That 8% damage does not translate into 8% DPS, there are better sources of this buff as mentioned.

    My guesses as to what casual players slot are rather different from yours. But I admit they're just guesses; e.g., I don't see that many procs that prove somebody isn't wearing Slimecraw. (Uh, is the red glowy arms effect of Slimecraw visible to other players, or just yourself? If the answer is that other people can see it too, then I'm actually quite sure I rarely group with people wearing it.)

    Other people can see it
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer BG Archer - No Gank
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    This is an argument? Seriously?
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    They can’t grasp the concept that even decent group finder averagely pull 15~20k DPS and cling to all these unnecessary buffs when they could bring in their meager 30 to 40 k DPS while healing and make things go better.

    I wouldn’t say that they can’t handle a pug group, but some are far out of touch with average playerbase.

    Put some math on it if makes you feel better. How much extra damage can you make a 15k DPS do with buffs? %10? %20?

    Any which way, it’s not enough.

    I Pug a lot. It doesn’t seem like those with strong opinions do. If ever. So go on with it.
    PlayStation NA
    1000+ CP
    DC Khajit NB Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Argonian Templar Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Dark Elf Sorc Stormproof
    DC High Elf NB Stormproof
    DC Dark Elf DK Stormproof
    AD Redguard DK Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Orc Warden Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Breton Warden Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Redguard Sorc Stormproof
    DC Redguard Templar Stormproof Flawless Conqueror
    DC Nord Necromancer Stormproof
    DC Breton Necromancer Stormproof Flawless Conqueror

    PlayStation EU
    258 CP
    DC Orc Warden Stormproof
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