kylewwefan wrote: »You want to give the best chance you can to the completion of content.
heaMariusghost84 wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »"Healers" like this are the reason why people don't take healers along for four man and are now only using one in twelve man. You've got very little to offer besides filling a health bar. Which I hate to break it to you dps are more adept at doing because of how spell and weapon damage affect healing.
I have no experience with healing and know 0 about the subject but. Are you saying that his setup isnt good for healing? If so- why excatly? What would you change?
The problem with OP's and other people attitude toward healer is the fact they call this role a 'healer'. The role should be called dps/support.
This role should pull 20k+ dps and buff the other 2 dps while keeping hots on tank and providing an emergency heal for 'oh ***' moments, also dependent on skill of player debuff mobs and boss as much as possible.
So providing major courage, minor beserk and a regen buff is mandatory as a minimum for this role.
Tank provides minor courage and mob debuffs mainly.
This is an opinion for when you play with other skilled players, otherwise skilled players would run tank and just dps and remove heals, if you adopt 'healer' I just heal attitude you will not progress to endgame.
I have played with people who can provide 30k dps, hots, emergency heals, buff out the yang and solid debuffs, aim for that and you will be asked to run a lot of content.
As good player population dwindles and solid groups are hunting for good player additions you can meet some great guys and gals.
I can do all you said, I run my things fine on my Templar healer, although it's more of a 25-27k DPS, not 30, and I still say to you... It's not "they call the role 'healer''. The role is called "healer". By the game. Not by anyone out of their own will, but by the designer that ultimately made a decision to call the role healer.
Do I agree with you that it's time for a possible revision? Yes. But it's still a healer and therefore the only required job is healing.
If you expect a healer to do more than that, it's a problem with your expectations. What you can do is -ask- your healer to do those things, and that's fine.
Remember... You're expecting healers to do damage, instead if healing... Whatever else you say after that, you're wrong. Revise your expectations.
As a side note: 4 roles are Tank, Healer and 2x DPS.
Not anything different. That's not said by me, I don't agree with it most of times, and I hate were forced to conform, but a tank is a tank, a healer is a healer and a dps is a dps. There's no defined support role.
TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Lol honestly either do the job right or not at all. A healer needs combat prayer for fights that aren't VAS. You need a resto for combat prayer. Therefore you need a resto. End of discussion. Also I'd love to see all these healers doing 30k dps or thereabouts. Let's be real the average DPS doesn't hit 30k. Your healer spec isn't doing 30k. Nor does it have to.
My expectations are definitely more than just healing as I run an elite group and we don't carry people, IDGAF what you think or if you think I am wrong, nobody just healing will run with me that's how it is, git gud or get kicked.
TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Lol honestly either do the job right or not at all. A healer needs combat prayer for fights that aren't VAS. You need a resto for combat prayer. Therefore you need a resto. End of discussion. Also I'd love to see all these healers doing 30k dps or thereabouts. Let's be real the average DPS doesn't hit 30k. Your healer spec isn't doing 30k. Nor does it have to.
Doing 30k dps is very easy! just rotate three dots and light attacks in between buff skills.
And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....
Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.
And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.
Combat prayer sucks.
@ZonasArch you're operating on the assumption that everyone always plays with A) pugs who are B ) bad at the game
while i'm aware this is a lot of players' experiences, there are countless situations where minor berserk across the whole party with 100% uptime is really good because you know...
it's minor berserk
8% more damage
all the time
(in theory)
so why not slot it if you have the free space
OG_Kaveman wrote: »And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....
Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.
And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.
Combat prayer sucks.
Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Lol no combat prayer, no warhorn so what exactly are you wearing JG for?
Jorvuld's Guidance
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Dungeon
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Done
(5 items) Increases the duration of all Major buffs, Minor buffs, and damage shields you apply to yourself and allies by 40%.
for all of that
Bruh u try to impress us with set that is used to increase uptime on minor berserk and the warhorn mostly and yet you have neither on your bar, sorry but you got to do better than that, I wouldn’t want my healer to have his bars set up like that. Y I K E R S
TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Reading this thread makes me realise that people have no clue what it means to be a pve healer at the highest levels. (Or even mid tier from some of these replies) Got people talking like combat prayer and buffing in general is optional, and about doing dps.
And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....
Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.
And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.
Combat prayer sucks.
T3hasiangod wrote: »The number of people who think Combat Prayer is bad in this thread makes me sad.
Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....
Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.
And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.
Combat prayer sucks.
a battle of wills as to who is right or wrong is off topic and so wrong. if you want to have a combat prayer is mandatory for healers thread, please go start your own. thank you.
Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »what's not to love about this healing bar setup?
FrancisCrawford wrote: »
My expectations are definitely more than just healing as I run an elite group and we don't carry people, IDGAF what you think or if you think I am wrong, nobody just healing will run with me that's how it is, git gud or get kicked.
How is it that you run an elite group, yet find yourself in a position to group with strangers and need to kick them?
You need to keep in mind that the Meta you so eagerly Chase is set by a handful of people that literally never pug. There's a reason why they don't pug... That's because they can't. They don't know how to handle randomness and the unexpected. They don't know how to bend around the inexperienced skill-less players to make them work through a dungeon. Expecting these people to tell you what's good and what's not when you're pugging is like expecting a PvP only player to tell what's most effective against a boss in a trial. "CAP RESISTANCES, EVERYONE!" they would say. Makes no sense.
You cannot expect people to use a sad excuse for a group skill if the group doesn't cooperate and new players will likely almost never have a cooperating group. I've healed everything there's to heal in this game except vet trials, and organized coordinated trials are where combat prayer shines, and that's about it. Everywhere else, you'll do fine without. You'll
probably do better without.
Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Also, misgendering people is a form of abuse. Not a bruh and most def not your bruh.
angelncelestine wrote: »I am sorry, but combat prayer isn't some meta only skill that doesn't need to be used. It is a skill that every healer new or seasoned should be using when able. Telling new healers that they don't need to use it imo is only doing them a disservice when it comes to learning the basics of ESO healing.
You need to keep in mind that the Meta you so eagerly Chase is set by a handful of people that literally never pug. There's a reason why they don't pug... That's because they can't. They don't know how to handle randomness and the unexpected. They don't know how to bend around the inexperienced skill-less players to make them work through a dungeon. Expecting these people to tell you what's good and what's not when you're pugging is like expecting a PvP only player to tell what's most effective against a boss in a trial. "CAP RESISTANCES, EVERYONE!" they would say. Makes no sense.
You cannot expect people to use a sad excuse for a group skill if the group doesn't cooperate and new players will likely almost never have a cooperating group. I've healed everything there's to heal in this game except vet trials, and organized coordinated trials are where combat prayer shines, and that's about it. Everywhere else, you'll do fine without. You'll
probably do better without.
Imagine really thinking that the people who number crunch out top builds can't handle pugs. Pugging normal dungeons/trials is not some skill intensive endeavor that requires 200 IQ to understand its vast complexities. Of course you can do fine without prayer in normal content but that doesn't mean your group isn't worse off from you not using it. At most you may have to fire it off twice to cover the group. 2 GCDs isn't really a big deal when normal content requires very minimal healing even in the most daft of pugs.
I really enjoyed the part of your post where you claimed most groups suck while having gone into great detail about how bad prayer is. Maybe the groups would improve if you stopped queueing into them?
T3hasiangod wrote: »The number of people who think Combat Prayer is bad in this thread makes me sad.
The number of people who blindly Chase Meta in this game makes me sad.
It's all about the groups you run with, and saying combat prayer is always good is ignoring pugs are even a thing. A buff AoE skill is only as good as the group allows it to be, but you meta-chasers are too narrow minded in your own delusional little bubble that you end up "forcing" new healers to use skills that won't help them learn how to heal and buff, it'll just induce madness and frustration, and eventually you'll end up without new healers because none of them went through the process of development.
You need to keep in mind that the Meta you so eagerly Chase is set by a handful of people that literally never pug. There's a reason why they don't pug... That's because they can't. They don't know how to handle randomness and the unexpected. They don't know how to bend around the inexperienced skill-less players to make them work through a dungeon. Expecting these people to tell you what's good and what's not when you're pugging is like expecting a PvP only player to tell what's most effective against a boss in a trial. "CAP RESISTANCES, EVERYONE!" they would say. Makes no sense.
You cannot expect people to use a sad excuse for a group skill if the group doesn't cooperate and new players will likely almost never have a cooperating group. I've healed everything there's to heal in this game except vet trials, and organized coordinated trials are where combat prayer shines, and that's about it. Everywhere else, you'll do fine without. You'll
probably do better without.
This is the same situation as a PvP opposite to PvE... Some sets and skills are only good in certain situations... Or do you think all groups are made the same, all dungeons are the same, all mechanics are the same and combat prayer is always good no matter what?! O.o
No... Combat prayer depends on your group, and most groups suck, therefore combat prayer sucks overall.
T3hasiangod wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »The number of people who think Combat Prayer is bad in this thread makes me sad.
The number of people who blindly Chase Meta in this game makes me sad.
It's all about the groups you run with, and saying combat prayer is always good is ignoring pugs are even a thing. A buff AoE skill is only as good as the group allows it to be, but you meta-chasers are too narrow minded in your own delusional little bubble that you end up "forcing" new healers to use skills that won't help them learn how to heal and buff, it'll just induce madness and frustration, and eventually you'll end up without new healers because none of them went through the process of development.
You need to keep in mind that the Meta you so eagerly Chase is set by a handful of people that literally never pug. There's a reason why they don't pug... That's because they can't. They don't know how to handle randomness and the unexpected. They don't know how to bend around the inexperienced skill-less players to make them work through a dungeon. Expecting these people to tell you what's good and what's not when you're pugging is like expecting a PvP only player to tell what's most effective against a boss in a trial. "CAP RESISTANCES, EVERYONE!" they would say. Makes no sense.
You cannot expect people to use a sad excuse for a group skill if the group doesn't cooperate and new players will likely almost never have a cooperating group. I've healed everything there's to heal in this game except vet trials, and organized coordinated trials are where combat prayer shines, and that's about it. Everywhere else, you'll do fine without. You'll
probably do better without.
This is the same situation as a PvP opposite to PvE... Some sets and skills are only good in certain situations... Or do you think all groups are made the same, all dungeons are the same, all mechanics are the same and combat prayer is always good no matter what?! O.o
No... Combat prayer depends on your group, and most groups suck, therefore combat prayer sucks overall.
The irony in this post is palpable.
1. Combat Prayer is always good. It is a) an instant AoE burst heal and b) a powerful buffing move. Just because people don't stack in PUGs doesn't mean Combat Prayer is not worth using. You'll just have to cast it twice, once on each DPS. And don't say you can't hit them. It has a 18 meter range, which is more than enough to hit people. If you can't hit people with Combat Prayer, then you're the one that needs to work on positioning.
2. Building solely around PUGs is the same as building solely around organized trial groups.
3. It's laughable that you think that end-game PvE-ers can't deal with PUGs. We do it all the time. We carry groups that are bad, and sometimes we get groups that are good. We still run (for the most part) the exact builds we run in trials, with a few modifications if DPS is bad and we are support roles.
4. It's even more laughable to say that we can't "handle randomness and the unexpected". Trials have tons of that.
5. This point is the one that grinds my gears and is what makes many end-game PvE-ers "toxic" towards casual players. You give bad advice. If someone just wants to do PUGs their whole life, then sure. Let them do whatever. But if they ever want to do organized trials or dungeons, then they need to be prepared for the expectations. Telling someone to never use Combat Prayer because it's bad in PUGs is teaching and perpetuating bad habits. It's why a lot of us have issues with casual players that put out questionable content. We, the end-game community, have to deal with bad habits, and essentially reteach people how to do their roles. It's asinine and frankly a waste of our time to spend days or weeks reteaching a new member how to do their role because they read on the forums or Reddit that "Combat Prayer is bad" or "Twilight Remedy is a good healer set".
No. Stop doing this now. You are doing everybody a disservice.
And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....
Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.
And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.
Combat prayer sucks.
@ZonasArch you're operating on the assumption that everyone always plays with A) pugs who are B ) bad at the game
while i'm aware this is a lot of players' experiences, there are countless situations where minor berserk across the whole party with 100% uptime is really good because you know...
it's minor berserk
8% more damage
all the time
(in theory)
so why not slot it if you have the free space
Most people do pug and organized 4-man groups could care less with; Camouflaged Hunter, Bird of Prey, and Slimecraw.
Only beneficiaries are those in trials making scores on time or avoiding mechanics and unlike vet dungeons, they stack.
Combat Prayer might have excitingly stimulating text but it's a crappy ability in terms of practical application.
We can blame individual competence on positioning but it doesn't help when most are casuals.
That 8% damage does not translate into 8% DPS, there are better sources of this buff as mentioned.
T3hasiangod wrote: »Just because people don't stack in PUGs doesn't mean Combat Prayer is not worth using. You'll just have to cast it twice, once on each DPS.
FrancisCrawford wrote: »And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....
Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.
And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.
Combat prayer sucks.
@ZonasArch you're operating on the assumption that everyone always plays with A) pugs who are B ) bad at the game
while i'm aware this is a lot of players' experiences, there are countless situations where minor berserk across the whole party with 100% uptime is really good because you know...
it's minor berserk
8% more damage
all the time
(in theory)
so why not slot it if you have the free space
Most people do pug and organized 4-man groups could care less with; Camouflaged Hunter, Bird of Prey, and Slimecraw.
Only beneficiaries are those in trials making scores on time or avoiding mechanics and unlike vet dungeons, they stack.
Combat Prayer might have excitingly stimulating text but it's a crappy ability in terms of practical application.
We can blame individual competence on positioning but it doesn't help when most are casuals.
That 8% damage does not translate into 8% DPS, there are better sources of this buff as mentioned.
My guesses as to what casual players slot are rather different from yours. But I admit they're just guesses; e.g., I don't see that many procs that prove somebody isn't wearing Slimecraw. (Uh, is the red glowy arms effect of Slimecraw visible to other players, or just yourself? If the answer is that other people can see it too, then I'm actually quite sure I rarely group with people wearing it.)