The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
what's not to love about this healing bar setup?
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »And combat prayer sucks, short range puts healer too close to danger. Doesn't work on pugs at all, with scared to death dps and fake tanks every other run. Good luck buffing them while staying alive and keeping magicka up and healing said dps that are NEVER aware of positioning....
Like I said, combat prayer sucks, and therefore, isn't mandatory. There are better skills, even if you lose the buffs.
And I won't even mention PvP... I only know one player that can use that well in PvP, and he uses of raw healing power, not for buffs.
Combat prayer sucks.
@ZonasArch you're operating on the assumption that everyone always plays with A) pugs who are B ) bad at the game
while i'm aware this is a lot of players' experiences, there are countless situations where minor berserk across the whole party with 100% uptime is really good because you know...
it's minor berserk
8% more damage
all the time
(in theory)
so why not slot it if you have the free space
Most people do pug and organized 4-man groups could care less with; Camouflaged Hunter, Bird of Prey, and Slimecraw.
Only beneficiaries are those in trials making scores on time or avoiding mechanics and unlike vet dungeons, they stack.
Combat Prayer might have excitingly stimulating text but it's a crappy ability in terms of practical application.
We can blame individual competence on positioning but it doesn't help when most are casuals.
That 8% damage does not translate into 8% DPS, there are better sources of this buff as mentioned.
My guesses as to what casual players slot are rather different from yours. But I admit they're just guesses; e.g., I don't see that many procs that prove somebody isn't wearing Slimecraw. (Uh, is the red glowy arms effect of Slimecraw visible to other players, or just yourself? If the answer is that other people can see it too, then I'm actually quite sure I rarely group with people wearing it.)
Other people can see it
Then I'll say conclusively that Slimecraw is rare in the groupfinder PUGs I heal.0 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭"what's not to love?"
ok...it is a healer build
most healers are just
terrible dpsers that still want to play
btw it is at best mediocre pug bar for
random normlas with no buffs
this kind of healers usually get replaced
in party by competent dps
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DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Generally, I've found that if a party isn't good enough to merit Combat Prayer, I'm better of just DPSing with offheals anyway.
...but really, this thread is kind of silly. There are plenty of things "not to love" about that healing bar in certain contexts. If it works for OP and the content they do/the groups they are in....then who cares?Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub3 -
sindalstar✭✭✭Its not what I would use as a bar. But that's just me.
I use siphon instead or alter. I just like it more.
No real need for circle while I'm concerned.
Trees are my healing ult. Horn is my offensive ult.
Dont love your bar. Dont hate it either0 -
hasi✭✭✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »It's amazing the kind of narratives people make up to justify bringing no group utility whatsoever to the table while on a healer.
Pugs have low DPS to it's a waste to buff them.
They don't stay stacked and avoid my Olo and combat prayer.
I don't want to be a blind meta chaser and buff the group or debuffing enemies so I'll just stand there and pump out overheal after overheal after overheal.
Some pathetic excuses on show here. If DPS is lacking, either kick the low DPS, leave and requeue or strap in be prepared to do your bloody job and support the group through mechanics that they cannot skip. If you're one of those self proclaimed 30k-40k DPS healers then I've got news for you: you're actually a DPS who's in denial. Consider changing your role or admit that you're a fake healer looking for a faster queue (we've all been there).
When you make these kinds of garbage irresponsible posts/replies new healers looking for advice on the forums will go and copy what some of you are saying and then go on to create problems down the road when they try to join any kind of organised group.
Thank you.😭❤0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Generally, I've found that if a party isn't good enough to merit Combat Prayer, I'm better of just DPSing with offheals anyway.
I don't think that's best framed as an either/or. Heals + Magickasteal + sustain skill (if you're on a class that has one) + orbs/shards will not fill your skill bars. So the rest can and should be DPS (orbs/shards can be damage too).
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Numerikuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭T3hasiangod wrote: »The number of people who think Combat Prayer is bad in this thread makes me sad.
The number of people who blindly Chase Meta in this game makes me sad.
It's all about the groups you run with, and saying combat prayer is always good is ignoring pugs are even a thing. A buff AoE skill is only as good as the group allows it to be, but you meta-chasers are too narrow minded in your own delusional little bubble that you end up "forcing" new healers to use skills that won't help them learn how to heal and buff, it'll just induce madness and frustration, and eventually you'll end up without new healers because none of them went through the process of development.
You need to keep in mind that the Meta you so eagerly Chase is set by a handful of people that literally never pug. There's a reason why they don't pug... That's because they can't. They don't know how to handle randomness and the unexpected. They don't know how to bend around the inexperienced skill-less players to make them work through a dungeon. Expecting these people to tell you what's good and what's not when you're pugging is like expecting a PvP only player to tell what's most effective against a boss in a trial. "CAP RESISTANCES, EVERYONE!" they would say. Makes no sense.
You cannot expect people to use a sad excuse for a group skill if the group doesn't cooperate and new players will likely almost never have a cooperating group. I've healed everything there's to heal in this game except vet trials, and organized coordinated trials are where combat prayer shines, and that's about it. Everywhere else, you'll do fine without. You'll
probably do better without.
This is the same situation as a PvP opposite to PvE... Some sets and skills are only good in certain situations... Or do you think all groups are made the same, all dungeons are the same, all mechanics are the same and combat prayer is always good no matter what?! O.o
No... Combat prayer depends on your group, and most groups suck, therefore combat prayer sucks overall.
^This. I still slot it, but there are times where it's just utterly useless, unless you want to burn through all your magicka trying to make sure everyone is buffed. In the end I stopped caring if I missed people in the group with it. I shouldn't have to be the only one that has to be mindful of positioning when it comes to heals. You should too. Not getting the buff? Too bad, so sad, play better.Edited by Numerikuu on September 14, 2019 10:45AM2 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭This is an argument? Seriously?
People are triggered by what others; do, say, and wear that is out of norm.
People assume ignorance of that individual, this results in a bad taste in their mouth prior to spewing vilification/criticism to "fix" or "educate" that individual into being homogenized. This happens because that little head voice alerts that individual of their advantage that is being challenged. That is how oppression works.
Meta is seen as "norm"/majority (when it's not), it's a delusion of grandure to recieve gratification.
(Classic example, winning = pleasure.)
Basically the mind is like this, "I am running meta, my group is running meta, we perform better, thus, we are privileged/better-off" so why would they (or we) want to change that? Sounds good right? There is nothing wrong with this perspective, being privileged doesn't have to be toxic, it actually has more to do with each individual as being prosocial or anti-social than it does with having an advantage. Usually their approach is worse than their intentions, however, what you may notice online is that intentions end up being short minded and just as bad as their poorly though out approach as there are fewer impressions and consideration over individuals through a screen to influence better behaviour of one's self.
Personally I don't believe in "fixing" people by telling them how to play because I don't think they are "broken". Video games are suppose to be fun, I'm not going to ride someone's junk to tell them to be any other way... Which for some, turns into their joy because they are sick pricks who get stimulation out of antagonizing people.Edited by SirMewser on September 14, 2019 4:17PM2 -
solasub✭✭✭✭✭I just don't understand half of the messages here. Are we playing the same game???
I play healer since years ; Dungeons don't require healer ; when I go with pugs, that is very often, by courtesy, I ask at the beginning : "do you prefer me on healer or DD set up?" ; CP is a precious skill, especially on Warden, my main class : it gives us the long range burst heal + buff ; even on vss HM, in some groups, I am just replacing Mushrooms by it.
If pugs are running everywhere, I message nicely "please stay in front of your healer" ; perhaps, let's hope, some will learn something in that run ; if they continue, I say "sorry, I am not here to heal and buff the vacuity or the boss", and I swap to dd set up.
How can a barrier be needed in a dungeon??????????? Even in a trial, it's something to use only on very specific situation, and used more, it's just a lack of game play.
Imo, what we can / must provide as warden healer : Frostcloak (amazing skill) ; pollen (I don't use Healing springs as it would be redondant) ; mushroom can be nice for the regen buff, but the same buff is brought by the Circle of Preservation, so slotting both has not a big sense. CP, obviously ; orbs ; drain if magicka dds ; RR since the patch ; why not an altar ; WarHorn obviously.
I always slot Northern Storm as ulti on healer, when Barrier is not needed (and for me, it's only needed in VSS Ice hm), that can buff your heal with the Magicka bonus, that you can use on trash pack in a trial / or why not a Dungeon.
I don't know what sort of things the "bashing-meta" people here are running ; if it's dungeon, well, yes, that supposes no meta, not even an healer infact ; you can go there with whatever you want, it's just a joke.
For other content... people are using that it is working, because it works, not because it's the meta. It becomes the meta because it works, not the opposite....
And, finally : the threat's author is asking ppl opinion and doesn't accept that opinion. Yes, using Jorvuld that is a set to buff your buff uptimes and not slotting those buffs skills is just an absolute non-sense. But, again, if you cannot accept ppl opinion, don't ask...
What I healed : all dungeons, all triple, vBRP, all trials hm, GH, TTT, IR ; with good groups, training groups, pug groups..Tick Tock Tormentor• Gryphon Heart • Immortal Redeemer • Extinguisher of Flames • Dro-m'Athra Destroyer • Shiel of the North
PVP Alpha Squad
PVE : Alpha Crew Guild leader / Easy Peasy Officer1 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭This is an argument? Seriously?
People are triggered by what others; do, say, and wear that is out of norm.
People assume ignorance of that individual, this results in a bad taste in their mouth prior to spewing vilification/criticism to "fix" or "educate" that individual into being homogenized. This happens because that little head voice alerts that individual of their advantage that is being challenged. That is how oppression works.
Meta is seen as "norm"/majority (when it's not), it's a delusion of grandure to recieve gratification.
(Classic example, winning = pleasure.)
Basically the mind is like this, "I am running meta, my group is running meta, we perform better, thus, we are privileged/better-off" so why would they (or we) want to change that? Sounds good right? There is nothing wrong with this perspective, being privileged doesn't have to be toxic, it actually has more to do with each individual as being prosocial or anti-social than it does with having an advantage. Usually their approach is worse than their intentions, however, what you may notice online is that intentions end up being short minded and just as bad as their poorly though out approach as there are fewer impressions and consideration over individuals through a screen to influence better behavior of one's self.
Personally I don't believe in "fixing" people by telling them how to play because I don't think they are "broken". Video games are suppose to be fun, I'm not going to ride someone's junk to tell them to be any other way... Which for some, turns into their joy because they are sick pricks who get stimulation out of antagonizing people.
Precisely. Offering an opinion and abusing a person with an opinion until they relent are not the same thing. So many 'opinions' offered in this thread are thinly veiled expressions of interpersonal abuse. Which is why i had stopped responding until it had run its course. Which it will likely do again. Cant seem to count on moderators to moderate the discussion when it becomes unproductive except to shut the thread down when i report people.
He who shouts loudest wins, except when that person is a she and then of course the mods shut that down straight away.1 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »The number of people who think Combat Prayer is bad in this thread makes me sad.
The number of people who blindly Chase Meta in this game makes me sad.
It's all about the groups you run with, and saying combat prayer is always good is ignoring pugs are even a thing. A buff AoE skill is only as good as the group allows it to be, but you meta-chasers are too narrow minded in your own delusional little bubble that you end up "forcing" new healers to use skills that won't help them learn how to heal and buff, it'll just induce madness and frustration, and eventually you'll end up without new healers because none of them went through the process of development.
You need to keep in mind that the Meta you so eagerly Chase is set by a handful of people that literally never pug. There's a reason why they don't pug... That's because they can't. They don't know how to handle randomness and the unexpected. They don't know how to bend around the inexperienced skill-less players to make them work through a dungeon. Expecting these people to tell you what's good and what's not when you're pugging is like expecting a PvP only player to tell what's most effective against a boss in a trial. "CAP RESISTANCES, EVERYONE!" they would say. Makes no sense.
You cannot expect people to use a sad excuse for a group skill if the group doesn't cooperate and new players will likely almost never have a cooperating group. I've healed everything there's to heal in this game except vet trials, and organized coordinated trials are where combat prayer shines, and that's about it. Everywhere else, you'll do fine without. You'll
probably do better without.
This is the same situation as a PvP opposite to PvE... Some sets and skills are only good in certain situations... Or do you think all groups are made the same, all dungeons are the same, all mechanics are the same and combat prayer is always good no matter what?! O.o
No... Combat prayer depends on your group, and most groups suck, therefore combat prayer sucks overall.
Yah know. How dare anyone think for themselves.
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Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭angelncelestine wrote: »I am sorry, but combat prayer isn't some meta only skill that doesn't need to be used. It is a skill that every healer new or seasoned should be using when able. Telling new healers that they don't need to use it imo is only doing them a disservice when it comes to learning the basics of ESO healing.
Your line of thought binds you to meta chasing. You're so tight in blindly chasing Meta, you'd have everyone following you there too! This is funny. Actually made me giggle a bit. First you deny it's Meta, then you say everyone should be using it, which is the -very definition- of Meta. 😂😶😂
I'm done with this thread. Can't argue with people that wanna be locked in a box and only be fed strategy instead of trying anything for themselves.
Go join the flat earth and climate change denier party with your blind Meta belief system.
I APPRECIATE YOU.1 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Reading this thread makes me realise that people have no clue what it means to be a pve healer at the highest levels. (Or even mid tier from some of these replies) Got people talking like combat prayer and buffing in general is optional, and about doing dps.
Well, as a Healer you do Dps also. For example when wearing the Set Z'en.
Not mainly tho like some people say here.
I looked at Z'en and wasnt impressed so much with it. Icy conjurer seems like a better choice tbh.0 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Honestly, it's kind of funny to see you say that it's about creating your own build @Hazurko_RaShan, when 98% of your build is a part of META besides eventually your 2nd Set(You didn't mentioned that yet.) and 2 Skills.
As a Healer, I think you wouldn't need Circle of Protection at all in this Build, it's far more suitable to use an actual Healing Staff Skill for Example or something like Inner Light, a Dot whatsoever. Especially in Dungeons a lot of people won't stay in your Circle thus make it useless. Plus the Stamina you'd have to spent for your Swarm Thingy Skills, Circle Uptime and Stuff like Breakfree/Block/Dodge doesn't seem very sustainable.
But just saying, as the Toxic Meta Chaser I am.^^
On one or two occasions i had to tell people to stand in the circle but largely it's understood, follow me in close enough to get the bennies of the fountain and the circle and the healing support shield as i lat the down next to the tank. After one boss fight, people generally see it and look forward to it.0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Imagine repeatedly replying to the same poster in a thread in 3-6 minute intervals.Edited by mairwen85 on September 14, 2019 6:53PM1 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Imagine repeatedly replying to the same poster in a thread in 3-6 minute intervals.
also, poe was clearly struggling with serious trauma issues. the dream within a dream is a form of disassociation known as derealization. https://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric-disorders/dissociative-disorders/depersonalization-derealization-disorder0 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Honestly, it's kind of funny to see you say that it's about creating your own build @Hazurko_RaShan, when 98% of your build is a part of META besides eventually your 2nd Set(You didn't mentioned that yet.) and 2 Skills.
As a Healer, I think you wouldn't need Circle of Protection at all in this Build, it's far more suitable to use an actual Healing Staff Skill for Example or something like Inner Light, a Dot whatsoever. Especially in Dungeons a lot of people won't stay in your Circle thus make it useless. Plus the Stamina you'd have to spent for your Swarm Thingy Skills, Circle Uptime and Stuff like Breakfree/Block/Dodge doesn't seem very sustainable.
But just saying, as the Toxic Meta Chaser I am.^^
On one or two occasions i had to tell people to stand in the circle but largely it's understood, follow me in close enough to get the bennies of the fountain and the circle and the healing support shield as i lat the down next to the tank. After one boss fight, people generally see it and look forward to it.
Largely it's understood, yup. Sustain wise I still think that it is a rather hard Skill to survive, also the Buff given is in no way necessary IMO. You don't have that much of high damage incoming in Dungeons, if so they are usually one shots or the Tank doesn't know how to taunt. There are surely better options like already said.0 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Reading this thread makes me realise that people have no clue what it means to be a pve healer at the highest levels. (Or even mid tier from some of these replies) Got people talking like combat prayer and buffing in general is optional, and about doing dps.
Well, as a Healer you do Dps also. For example when wearing the Set Z'en.
Not mainly tho like some people say here.
I looked at Z'en and wasnt impressed so much with it. Icy conjurer seems like a better choice tbh.
Z'en is less of a Dungeon Set, it's more used in Trials like VSS.
Icy Conjuror doesn't seem too nice, after all it has a Cooldown and by using Z'en you have to put more Dmg Dots in your Build so the total outcome of Dmg for you and the Group is probably gonna be a lot higher than the one with Icy. Especially when the DDs you play with use Dot Builds.😊1 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Reading this thread makes me realise that people have no clue what it means to be a pve healer at the highest levels. (Or even mid tier from some of these replies) Got people talking like combat prayer and buffing in general is optional, and about doing dps.
Well, as a Healer you do Dps also. For example when wearing the Set Z'en.
Not mainly tho like some people say here.
I looked at Z'en and wasnt impressed so much with it. Icy conjurer seems like a better choice tbh.
Z'en is less of a Dungeon Set, it's more used in Trials like VSS.
Icy Conjuror doesn't seem too nice, after all it has a Cooldown and by using Z'en you have to put more Dmg Dots in your Build so the total outcome of Dmg for you and the Group is probably gonna be a lot higher than the one with Icy. Especially when the DDs you play with use Dot Builds.😊
It may have a cool down but i see it firing off often. it's damage is nothing to sneeze at unless of course you're on the receiving end
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Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭so that's 2719 damage every second for 8 seconds with a 4 second cool down that cant be blocked.
or as they put it
(5 items) Applying a minor debuff to your enemy summons a non-reflectable Ice Wraith that will charge into your enemy, dealing 21752 Frost Damage over 8 seconds. This effect can occur every 12 seconds.
and that's in addition to
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1487 Spell Penetration0 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Reading this thread makes me realise that people have no clue what it means to be a pve healer at the highest levels. (Or even mid tier from some of these replies) Got people talking like combat prayer and buffing in general is optional, and about doing dps.
Well, as a Healer you do Dps also. For example when wearing the Set Z'en.
Not mainly tho like some people say here.
I looked at Z'en and wasnt impressed so much with it. Icy conjurer seems like a better choice tbh.
Z'en is less of a Dungeon Set, it's more used in Trials like VSS.
Icy Conjuror doesn't seem too nice, after all it has a Cooldown and by using Z'en you have to put more Dmg Dots in your Build so the total outcome of Dmg for you and the Group is probably gonna be a lot higher than the one with Icy. Especially when the DDs you play with use Dot Builds.😊
so your assertion is that it process damage from everyone does 5% more?
Z'en's Redress Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items)129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) 129 spell damage
(4 items) 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Your Light Attacks apply the Eye of Z’en on enemies for 20 seconds. Enemies with the Eye of Z’en take an additional 1% more damage for each damage over time effect you’ve placed on them, up to 5%.
Yah that would be useful in a trial.
In random pugs though, perhaps not as much0 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Reading this thread makes me realise that people have no clue what it means to be a pve healer at the highest levels. (Or even mid tier from some of these replies) Got people talking like combat prayer and buffing in general is optional, and about doing dps.
Well, as a Healer you do Dps also. For example when wearing the Set Z'en.
Not mainly tho like some people say here.
I looked at Z'en and wasnt impressed so much with it. Icy conjurer seems like a better choice tbh.
Z'en is less of a Dungeon Set, it's more used in Trials like VSS.
Icy Conjuror doesn't seem too nice, after all it has a Cooldown and by using Z'en you have to put more Dmg Dots in your Build so the total outcome of Dmg for you and the Group is probably gonna be a lot higher than the one with Icy. Especially when the DDs you play with use Dot Builds.😊
so your assertion is that it process damage from everyone does 5% more?
Z'en's Redress Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items)129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) 129 spell damage
(4 items) 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Your Light Attacks apply the Eye of Z’en on enemies for 20 seconds. Enemies with the Eye of Z’en take an additional 1% more damage for each damage over time effect you’ve placed on them, up to 5%.
Yah that would be useful in a trial.
In random pugs though, perhaps not as much
Yes, from everyone. That is why it is a good Set for Trials, but Pugs very unlikely. After all you don't know if every DD is using more than 1 or 2 Dots. With like the new Dot Build(Entrophy, Fire Rune, Destructive Touch, Blockade, Class Dot..) it's really nice tho.
For Dungeons Icy is probably better although I'd personally don't use the Set(If I play a Healer in Dungeons I prefer Olorime/SPC and Aether personally.), but that said I usually just go with max 2 Randoms into Dungeons.
I prefer to not run into someone, who doesn't know that the Red AoE hurts or might be a one shot, when me or my friend need No Death/Speedrun/Hardmode for Undaunted!😆
I don't mind newer or unexperienced Players when I am just farming tho.😊
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TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭FFS Zen's Redress is a dps set. What healer is going to slot 5 DOTs and keep them up 100% of the time in addition to doing their other duties? It's like some people aren't using their brains now.Edited by TheGreatBlackBear on September 15, 2019 12:06AM1 -
Wrexsoul✭✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »FFS Zen's Redress is a dps set. What healer is going to slot 5 DOTs and keep them up 100% of the time in addition to doing their other duties? It's like some people aren't using their brains now.
Maybe we can replace "Play what you want" with "Use your brain if you want". No one is going to oppress my Bow/Bow StamSorc healer by saying she can't heal Vet trials!0 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »
Plus healing thicket and expansive frost cloak on the lightning staff bar and jorvulds guidance to buff them all
No Combat Prayer. But I will not argue. If you are not smart enough to use Combat Prayer, you will not be smart enough to understand an explanation.Edited by TheInfernalRage on September 15, 2019 10:00AM4
