In regards to the new scalebreaker feature, Multicraft. WARNING!

tmbrinks

stuartx13 wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Gray_Raven wrote: »

Hi,

I selected "max" amount of craftable potions to make in alchemy without realizing the craft would be instant, consuming all of my mats I selected.
Like the addon multicraft before this one, I assumed the craft would not be instant and I could cancel out the craft when I thought I had enough by using alt to stop the process. I don't recall there being a confirmation prompt and if there is not one, there should absolutely be one! Just a heads up, as I suspect there will many of these cases occurring.

This system, we were told, was going to be faster and more efficient than how things have been processed in the past. They did not say you would be able to process, one at a time, at a continuous pace automatically. That was your assumption.

Hard to defend your position when it seems that you decided how it would work before doing any checking on how Zos said it would work.

IMHO

Well how it works is BS .And it need to be fix,And really what did you add to this nothing.

And you've added nothing, times 2, now... All you've said is "It's BS", without explaining a thing about WHAT happened, WHAT don't you like, etc...

Warndihr

Yeah, just set the default to "1" for players to choose the number.

DaveMoeDee

Of course it is instant. The addon fakes crafting multiple items because that is all it can do. It is just automating crafting one at a time over and over again. Why would they make the in-game feature work that way?

Kalcipher1

I don't like that, Multicraft:

• Resets after every action [to minimum/maximum]
• There are no settings to enable/disable auto-reset after every action
• There is no setting to enable/disable multicraft

As a powerseller as it were, I like to keep minimums of raw mats/refined mats. Using Chromium Grains as an example... with multicraft as it is, one could easily convert 400 Chromium Grains into 40 Chromium with a single, inadvertent, irreversible keystroke... and then not have any Chromium Grains which I sell separately from Chromium Plating and also use as currency to barter, donate to guilds... etc. I have 100s of 1000s of raw mats that i use as if it were currency. This goes for all refinable mats.

I would like to see Multicraft Settings for:

• Multicraft Min/Max
• Enable/Disable locking of Min/Max
• Enable/Disable the locking/unlocking of auto-reset
• Enable/Disable Multicraft [to vanilla crafting]

Davadin

stuartx13 wrote: »

It is not good and need to be removed.

no.

i love it.

this is a GOD SEND.

amazing. no more waiting to craft my pots or refine my rocks.

A-MA-ZING feature. thank u ZOS.

Tatanko

Kalcipher1 wrote: »

and then not have any Chromium Grains which I sell separately from Chromium Plating and also use as currency to barter, donate to guilds... etc.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who uses chromium grains as trade flavor

Heatnix90

lmao

Can you people ever not complain about a decent QoL change to the game?

Shadowshire

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Uh, they mentioned multiple times, including on ESO Live, that it would be instant. Dunno how you all missed it.

Obviously, many of us have better things to do than spend our time watching "ESO Live" and reading every word that ZOS puts out on their website.

Whether Refining is "instant" is not the issue. Disclosing that the feature would "instantly" produce the output is no excuse for the output which it does, in fact, produce.

Lady_Scorp72

Ok, so following up on my earlier post about getting zero mats on the first run of multicraft, I tested it again and well, you were right @tmbrinks It does appear to be the same drop rates as before, but it took me several more stacks (about 10k total of various mats) to see it. Basically after getting zero yesterday from 5-7k raw mats, I got far more gold tempers than I would expect with today's batches. It threw me because in the three years I've been playing, I've never had zero golds from a large batch (large for me), and so that's why I was concerned. It always seemed a consistent .5% or 1 per 200 when I'd refine my typical 1-2k at a time.

Anyway, I just wanted to report back that I'm happy I was wrong and the drop rates appear to be as they should be over time. I do still think it would be good for ZOS to let people have a default of MIN, and I'm sure they will add that option if enough people request it.

edit: spelling

shavari_needlepaws

Kalcipher1 wrote: »

I don't like that, Multicraft:

• Resets after every action [to minimum/maximum]
• There are no settings to enable/disable auto-reset after every action
• There is no setting to enable/disable multicraft

As a powerseller as it were, I like to keep minimums of raw mats/refined mats. Using Chromium Grains as an example... with multicraft as it is, one could easily convert 400 Chromium Grains into 40 Chromium with a single, inadvertent, irreversible keystroke... and then not have any Chromium Grains which I sell separately from Chromium Plating and also use as currency to barter, donate to guilds... etc. I have 100s of 1000s of raw mats that i use as if it were currency. This goes for all refinable mats.

I would like to see Multicraft Settings for:

• Multicraft Min/Max
• Enable/Disable locking of Min/Max
• Enable/Disable the locking/unlocking of auto-reset
• Enable/Disable Multicraft [to vanilla crafting]

This is exactly my dislike and request as well. I like the ability to choose if I want to refine 1, a number or all of my raw mats but I dislike that it resets back to MAX after I have set something other than max. If I set it to MIN, stay at MIN, if I set a number, stay set on that number (eg 4) if I set it to MAX, refine them all! I would also like the ability to click in the number area and set a number instead of spamming the + or - sign.

In addition, when I used the MAX ability on my 5k rubedite, zero gold mats. When I refined 1 at a time with ruby ash, within 3 stacks, I had 1 gold mat. 5 more single stacks, 2 more gold mats. MAX setting for ruby ash with 3.2K and zero gold. Both blacksmith and woodworking maxed refining skills. Seems particularly broken when using MAX setting

Heatnix90

Shadowshire wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Uh, they mentioned multiple times, including on ESO Live, that it would be instant. Dunno how you all missed it.

Obviously, many of us have better things to do than spend our time watching "ESO Live" and reading every word that ZOS puts out on their website.

Whether Refining is "instant" is not the issue. Disclosing that the feature would "instantly" produce the output is no excuse for the output which it does, in fact, produce.

Lol, so you're telling me you literally can't take 30 seconds of your time to read a quick article about the feature? Ok buddy


Did some refining yesterday, here are the results



Results seem about the same

Feric51

shavari_needleclaws wrote: »

This is exactly my dislike and request as well. I like the ability to choose if I want to refine 1, a number or all of my raw mats but I dislike that it resets back to MAX after I have set something other than max. If I set it to MIN, stay at MIN, if I set a number, stay set on that number (eg 4) if I set it to MAX, refine them all! I would also like the ability to click in the number area and set a number instead of spamming the + or - sign.

This would be a nice feature, but I assume it was because of we console players that they didn't incorporate that feature. I use a wireless keyboard, but I'm guessing a majority of console players do not, and making the in-game keyboard pop up on screen every time you went to type something in there would likely cause people to get angry.

At least you guys (PC) have the option to shift+click to +/- 10 at a time. I'm going to assume we won't have that ability on console.

DaveMoeDee

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Shadowshire wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Uh, they mentioned multiple times, including on ESO Live, that it would be instant. Dunno how you all missed it.

Obviously, many of us have better things to do than spend our time watching "ESO Live" and reading every word that ZOS puts out on their website.

Whether Refining is "instant" is not the issue. Disclosing that the feature would "instantly" produce the output is no excuse for the output which it does, in fact, produce.

Lol, so you're telling me you literally can't take 30 seconds of your time to read a quick article about the feature? Ok buddy


Did some refining yesterday, here are the results



Results seem about the same

It actually takes more ti

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Shadowshire wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Uh, they mentioned multiple times, including on ESO Live, that it would be instant. Dunno how you all missed it.

Obviously, many of us have better things to do than spend our time watching "ESO Live" and reading every word that ZOS puts out on their website.

Whether Refining is "instant" is not the issue. Disclosing that the feature would "instantly" produce the output is no excuse for the output which it does, in fact, produce.

Lol, so you're telling me you literally can't take 30 seconds of your time to read a quick article about the feature? Ok buddy


Did some refining yesterday, here are the results



Results seem about the same

What addon is putting the results in chat?

Alinhbo_Tyaka

stuartx13 wrote: »

It is not good and need to be removed.

It doesn't need to be removed just fixed.

Kalcipher1 wrote: »

I don't like that, Multicraft:

• Resets after every action [to minimum/maximum]
• There are no settings to enable/disable auto-reset after every action
• There is no setting to enable/disable multicraft

As a powerseller as it were, I like to keep minimums of raw mats/refined mats. Using Chromium Grains as an example... with multicraft as it is, one could easily convert 400 Chromium Grains into 40 Chromium with a single, inadvertent, irreversible keystroke... and then not have any Chromium Grains which I sell separately from Chromium Plating and also use as currency to barter, donate to guilds... etc. I have 100s of 1000s of raw mats that i use as if it were currency. This goes for all refinable mats.

I would like to see Multicraft Settings for:

• Multicraft Min/Max
• Enable/Disable locking of Min/Max
• Enable/Disable the locking/unlocking of auto-reset
• Enable/Disable Multicraft [to vanilla crafting]

These are good ideas. I would also like to see:

• Ability to enter the number of items directly into the field and not be limited to the +/- buttons.
• The +/- buttons should wrap so I can select the shortest direction for changing the item count.

tmbrinks

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Shadowshire wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Uh, they mentioned multiple times, including on ESO Live, that it would be instant. Dunno how you all missed it.

Obviously, many of us have better things to do than spend our time watching "ESO Live" and reading every word that ZOS puts out on their website.

Whether Refining is "instant" is not the issue. Disclosing that the feature would "instantly" produce the output is no excuse for the output which it does, in fact, produce.

Lol, so you're telling me you literally can't take 30 seconds of your time to read a quick article about the feature? Ok buddy


Did some refining yesterday, here are the results



Results seem about the same

It actually takes more ti

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Shadowshire wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Uh, they mentioned multiple times, including on ESO Live, that it would be instant. Dunno how you all missed it.

Obviously, many of us have better things to do than spend our time watching "ESO Live" and reading every word that ZOS puts out on their website.

Whether Refining is "instant" is not the issue. Disclosing that the feature would "instantly" produce the output is no excuse for the output which it does, in fact, produce.

Lol, so you're telling me you literally can't take 30 seconds of your time to read a quick article about the feature? Ok buddy


Did some refining yesterday, here are the results



Results seem about the same

What addon is putting the results in chat?

Autorefine. Even if you don't "use" the button for it.

tmbrinks

Lady_Scorp72 wrote: »

Ok, so following up on my earlier post about getting zero mats on the first run of multicraft, I tested it again and well, you were right @tmbrinks It does appear to be the same drop rates as before, but it took me several more stacks (about 10k total of various mats) to see it. Basically after getting zero yesterday from 5-7k raw mats, I got far more gold tempers than I would expect with today's batches. It threw me because in the three years I've been playing, I've never had zero golds from a large batch (large for me), and so that's why I was concerned. It always seemed a consistent .5% or 1 per 200 when I'd refine my typical 1-2k at a time.

Anyway, I just wanted to report back that I'm happy I was wrong and the drop rates appear to be as they should be over time. I do still think it would be good for ZOS to let people have a default of MIN, and I'm sure they will add that option if enough people request it.

edit: spelling

Glad to hear your results have "regressed to the mean" @Lady_Scorp72 I'd expect to see the same from most everybody as they continue refining.

I also agree completely that MIN should be the default. I also think there should be an ability to type in the amount we want.

TheInfernalRage

Gray_Raven wrote: »

Hi,

I selected "max" amount of craftable potions to make in alchemy without realizing the craft would be instant, consuming all of my mats I selected.
Like the addon multicraft before this one, I assumed the craft would not be instant and I could cancel out the craft when I thought I had enough by using alt to stop the process. I don't recall there being a confirmation prompt and if there is not one, there should absolutely be one! Just a heads up, as I suspect there will many of these cases occurring.

For weeks, we already know that this will be instant. I don't know how you missed that; probably because of the many class issues that went flying around during PTS.

I did notice that if your character do not know the properties of the ingredients you are using, it will only give you the craft 1 or max options. After you craft 1, a "+" will appear on top of max. If you set the amount to, say 20, then it will use your ingredients 20 times and that number will be there unless you change it to something else.

Cążki

This multicrafting tool in ESo is jsut a piece of ... where is an option to multi IMPROVEMENT ? For example I am master crafter and im crafting for sell, and I crafted 100 items and then i must imprve it to "purple" and then this will take so very long and boring like this 100x(click "r" green click "r" blue click "r" purple)

Shadowshire

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Lady_Scorp72 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I was merely referring to drawing statistical conclusions from a small sample size. Statistical argument only.

Fair enough, but I'm sticking with the MIN setting until more people have a chance to test it out.

It was heavily tested on PTS though, @Lady_Scorp72 ... with most of the credit going to @tmbrinks.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates#latest

Unfortunately, in my own experience, the behavior of the software on the PTS often will not be its behavior in the "live" release. I have found bugs while playing on the PTS which were corrected in the PTS software, but the "live" software was released without any corrections for those bugs. Also, I have found bugs in the "live" release which I did not find while doing the same things with the PTS.

Suffice it to say that the live release can and will have changes which are not in the PTS software, and vice-versa. After all, it is a Public Test Server release. So, I don't often play the PTS game any more. There is no identifiable benefit, so it just seems to be a marketing promotion for a new Chapter or DLC.

Also, during my own 4+ years of playing TESO, I have noticed that what should be the same host software (on the mega-server) does not have the same behavior for each of my four respective characters.

As you might expect, a design flaw or a bug which is evident when I play one character ordinarily will be evident on each of the other three -- especially in the Base Game. Albeit, for any specific bug, its evident result may differ among one or more of the four characters.

Be that as it is, there are some bugs which are evident on only one or two of my characters and not the others -- aside from those that are attributable to differences between their Classes and/or the Skill Lines which I have chosen for them to use.

In particular, displayed output often consistently differs for the various UIs such as Bags/Inventory, the shared Bank account, and the Collectibles (aside from the fact that every character has not earned the same items, such as Cadwell's Helm). There is a significant difference in the way that the Provisioning Crafting Station is displayed while two of my characters use it that have never appeared with either of the other two characters. Further, for the two on which it appears anomalous (erroneous), it is consistently wrong with one character, and intermittently wrong (in the same way) with the other one.

As another example, there are some bugs which are in a specific delve or dungeon which might -- or might not -- be evident while a player's character is engaged in exploring it. Sometimes the Group Finder software and system works well, often it doesn't.

Go figure.

By the way, I do use numerous add-ons. Almost all are loaded on each of my four characters -- if only for the sake of uniformity in key-binds and behavior of the modified software. There are only a few which are loaded on just one or two characters because, for example, a character has the Twice-Born Star set, or their role is Healer.

With each character, I do not load several add-ons which adversely impact performance during combat, while participating, for example, in World Boss and other multi-player groups. That is, before I join such a group, or my character enters a Public Dungeon, I reload the UI without those add-ons enabled, and, sometimes, with one or more others that are enabled only in that context.

So, I have spent quite a bit of time and effort to determine whether any bugs in the HUD output occur only in the context of one or more add-ons. Occasionally, an add-on might have an evident bug or design flaw, usually signified by a UI Error message displayed after it is loaded. Sometimes an anomaly evident in the HUD, such as the Chat Window, is attributable to a design flaw or an implementation error in an add-on.

Seldom, however, have I found that incorrect HUD output or any other incorrect software output is attributable to an add-on(s). Most often, add-ons add features and/or functions, instead of modifying existing features and functions.

The native, unmodified UI is simply not acceptable for several features of the game. I would not play TESO if I did not use some add-ons to improve the experience.

CantFixIr

I liked it at first but it is absolute ***.

I wanted to refine my wood ten by ten but after the first batch of ten it somehow decided to default to max. And I got 3 gold for 400+ rough ruby ash. Total con.

Shadowshire

Cążki wrote: »

This multicrafting tool in ESo is jsut a piece of ... where is an option to multi IMPROVEMENT ? For example I am master crafter and im crafting for sell, and I crafted 100 items and then i must imprve it to "purple" and then this will take so very long and boring like this 100x(click "r" green click "r" blue click "r" purple)

To Improve multipile items simultaneously: if memory serves, then

1. Hold down the key for Add.
2. Select each item to improve by highlighting it and clicking the Left Mouse Button on its respective line.
3. When you stop selecting them, release the Add key-press.
4. Then check the count shown on the number to load, and double-check the ones you selected to improve. (Not easy to do since they are darkened, but highlight each one to verify that it should be on the list.)
5. Press the key to Improve them.

Note: it might be possible to simply select each item to Improve as I describe above, then press the Add key to load them for the task, but I have not attempted to do that.

FWIW, I figured that ZOS had implemented some way to do it. Being an old geek and veteran of Windows Point-and-Click mouse- oriented user interfaces, it wasn't that hard to find how they did it. And yes, I do not like the console UI features such as the Interactive Prompt.

Calm_Fury

Feric51 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

I think they did a great job with this system. I need one less add-on now.

Agreed. 100%

The ONLY (minor) complaint I have is I wish we could just manually input a number instead of having to use the + and -

It's still quick with Shift + Click going up by 10, or mouse wheel to scroll... so it's only a minor complaint.

I will be interested to see how they implement this on console. Hopefully there's a way to increase the number by 10, or at least have the +/- rate speed up the longer the directional button is held.

I play on controller and that is exactly how it works.

You hold X to craft multiple.

It starts at 1. You can either go 1 by 1 (meaning 10 mats), hold the triggers to go super fast or type Y for max. It goes instanntly.

As someone who used to craft 2000 pots for our raid on console,this new feature is perfect.

I can't complain. It is even better than I expected.

eso_lytw8

I have some concerns about the random number generator associated with dungeon/trial drops so am interested to hear the results from batch processing of refining. It does sound like the system is not using individual calls to the RNG, but instead making one call to a table then determining your results. If this is the case it won't help me in my quest, but for you I did do a normal approximation of binomial distribution where p=.005 (assume gold temper proportion) and n = 1000 refines.

I get an estimated 95% confidence interval equal to low of 0.54 temps and a high of 9.5 temps with an expected value of 5. This suggests that 95% of the time when you refine 1000 times you should get between .5 and 9.5 temps. So roughly about 1 in 40 times you could "0 temps" and 1 in 40 get "10 temps". So if people are getting 0 more frequently then 1 in 40 this would be suspicious, regardless if the long term number averages to a ratio of .005.

Maybe this helps.

tmbrinks

eso_lytw8 wrote: »

I have some concerns about the random number generator associated with dungeon/trial drops so am interested to hear the results from batch processing of refining. It does sound like the system is not using individual calls to the RNG, but instead making one call to a table then determining your results. If this is the case it won't help me in my quest, but for you I did do a normal approximation of binomial distribution where p=.005 (assume gold temper proportion) and n = 1000 refines.

I get an estimated 95% confidence interval equal to low of 0.54 temps and a high of 9.5 temps with an expected value of 5. This suggests that 95% of the time when you refine 1000 times you should get between .5 and 9.5 temps. So roughly about 1 in 40 times you could "0 temps" and 1 in 40 get "10 temps". So if people are getting 0 more frequently then 1 in 40 this would be suspicious, regardless if the long term number averages to a ratio of .005.

Maybe this helps.

(Just so it's clear, I believe this would be for 100 REFINES, or 1,000 raw materials refined)

1,000 refines would have an expected return of 50 gold materials (since it's 10,000 x 0.005)

eso_lytw8

tmbrinks wrote: »

eso_lytw8 wrote: »

I have some concerns about the random number generator associated with dungeon/trial drops so am interested to hear the results from batch processing of refining. It does sound like the system is not using individual calls to the RNG, but instead making one call to a table then determining your results. If this is the case it won't help me in my quest, but for you I did do a normal approximation of binomial distribution where p=.005 (assume gold temper proportion) and n = 1000 refines.

I get an estimated 95% confidence interval equal to low of 0.54 temps and a high of 9.5 temps with an expected value of 5. This suggests that 95% of the time when you refine 1000 times you should get between .5 and 9.5 temps. So roughly about 1 in 40 times you could "0 temps" and 1 in 40 get "10 temps". So if people are getting 0 more frequently then 1 in 40 this would be suspicious, regardless if the long term number averages to a ratio of .005.

Maybe this helps.

(Just so it's clear, I believe this would be for 100 REFINES, or 1,000 raw materials refined)

1,000 refines would have an expected return of 50 gold materials (since it's 10,000 x 0.005)

Great catch, looks like I am off by a factor of ten so this applies to 100 refines. If you do 1000 refines the expected value is 50 with the lower 95% confidence interval = 36 and the upper is 64, if you are frequently see numbers outside of this it is concerning.

I notice people declaring the appropriateness of the system based solely on long tern central tendency, I like to encourage us the look at variation, short term trending, as well as dependency. The RNG system might indeed work fine for long term but fail miserably in the short term. For example some people might get way too few gold mats while others getting way too many yields an average that appears just fine. Not saying it is happening just something we should not overlook.

Sorry for the math error, thanks Imbrinks for catching it.