Should Maelstrom arena be nerfed?

solasub

NO : Dont nerf vMA

LMAO LMAO LMAO
nerf vMA? why wtf? if you cannot play the game, play to another one

Emma_Overload

YES : Nerf vMA

idk wrote: »

vMA has already been seriously nerfed over the years. The heavy power creep we have had since vMA was added to the game makes it significantly easier than it initially was.

Yes the power creep is significant, but NO, vMA has NEVER been nerfed in any way that matters to players who have trouble with it. The only things that have been changed over the years are little bug fixes and minor adjustments that make it more convenient for players who can complete it anyway.

Target prioritization becomes tiresome at stage 5 and mechanics become needlessly complicated at stage 6, and things only get worse after that. Until the difficulty of stages 5 through 9 are reduced in a tangible way, you are going to hear calls for vMA nerfs on the forums year after year.

solasub

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NO, vMA has NEVER been nerfed in any way that matters to players who have trouble with it. .

FALSE (because it seems you like caps) ; at the beginning, you couldn't stop, or go outside etc ; or it will have reset. You had to do it in only one row. To get the possibility to take break was a BIG nerf indeed.

Malamar1229

NO : Dont nerf vMA

This arenas been nerfed too many times as is.

If anything I wish they'd remove the mushrooms from stage 7...RNG really shouldnt make/break a score. I rolled right into one this morning that spawned just as I rolled.

solasub

NO : Dont nerf vMA

And why everyone should endure a nerf because some are not able to do it? Common dps is far more enough now to do it for everyone ; such as the plenty of sets that didn't exist before. Mechanics are simple. What are the "complicated" mechanics there xd? kill an hoarver close to one pillar? OMG, that is SO difficult to get!

Emma_Overload

YES : Nerf vMA

solasub wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NO, vMA has NEVER been nerfed in any way that matters to players who have trouble with it. .

FALSE (because it seems you like caps) ; at the beginning, you couldn't stop, or go outside etc ; or it will have reset. You had to do it in only one row. To get the possibility to take break was a BIG nerf indeed.

LOL, that's not a nerf in any sense of the word. That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say "bug fixes and adjustments". You always should have been able to come back to your game without losing progress. Fixing that is not a "nerf"!

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Easy as is. No need to nerf it.

Sav

NO : Dont nerf vMA

The plants in Stage 7 should be toned down a bit but other than that no. What Zos needs to do is fix vMA, there's a couple of bugs that are infuriating.

Sanguinor2

NO : Dont nerf vMA

No nerf needed, if People can clear it in a 30k Health build with PvP gear then it really doesnt Need a nerf.

Emma_Overload

YES : Nerf vMA

solasub wrote: »

And why everyone should endure a nerf because some are not able to do it? Common dps is far more enough now to do it for everyone ; such as the plenty of sets that didn't exist before. Mechanics are simple. What are the "complicated" mechanics there xd? kill an hoarver close to one pillar? OMG, that is SO difficult to get!

No, the mechanics are not simple. That's why YouTube is full of vMA "guides" that should never have been necessary in the first place. It is simply not possible to get through vMA by playing reactively in a natural way. You are absolutely required to play proactively because of target priorities and mechanics. I do not think I have ever seen a vMA guide video where the player did not start hitting spawn points with AOE DOTs before anything even spawned! That's ridiculous and indicative of bad design. Players should be able to play the game without being forced to search the internet for cheat sheets. It should never be necessary to memorize a bunch of moves and strategies like a ballerina learning a choreography. Games should feel like fun, in my opinion, not a tiresome chore.

Sanguinor2

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Emma_Overload wrote: »

No, the mechanics are not simple. That's why YouTube is full of vMA "guides" that should never have been necessary in the first place. It's is simply not possible to get through vMA by playing reactively in a natural way. You are absolutely required to play proactively because of target priorities and mechanics. I do not think I have ever seen a vMA guide video where the player did not start hitting spawn points with AOE DOTs before anything even spawned! That's ridiculous and indicative of bad design. Players should be able to play the game without being forced to search the internet for cheat sheets. It should never be necessary to memorize a bunch of moves and strategies like a ballerina learning a choreography. Games should feel like fun, in my opinion, not a tiresome chore.

Yet People cleared it before guides and addons for it existed and our characters were much weaker, so its hardly necessary to watch guides, spawn Points etc.

MaddPowered

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Emma_Overload wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

And why everyone should endure a nerf because some are not able to do it? Common dps is far more enough now to do it for everyone ; such as the plenty of sets that didn't exist before. Mechanics are simple. What are the "complicated" mechanics there xd? kill an hoarver close to one pillar? OMG, that is SO difficult to get!

No, the mechanics are not simple. That's why YouTube is full of vMA "guides" that should never have been necessary in the first place. It's is simply not possible to get through vMA by playing reactively in a natural way. You are absolutely required to play proactively because of target priorities and mechanics. I do not think I have ever seen a vMA guide video where the player did not start hitting spawn points with AOE DOTs before anything even spawned! That's ridiculous and indicative of bad design. Players should be able to play the game without being forced to search the internet for cheat sheets. It should never be necessary to memorize a bunch of moves and strategies like a ballerina learning a choreography. Games should feel like fun, in my opinion, not a tiresome chore.

mechanical incompetence

Bobby_V_Rockit

YES : Nerf vMA

Yes please

Tannus15

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Emma_Overload wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

And why everyone should endure a nerf because some are not able to do it? Common dps is far more enough now to do it for everyone ; such as the plenty of sets that didn't exist before. Mechanics are simple. What are the "complicated" mechanics there xd? kill an hoarver close to one pillar? OMG, that is SO difficult to get!

No, the mechanics are not simple. That's why YouTube is full of vMA "guides" that should never have been necessary in the first place. It is simply not possible to get through vMA by playing reactively in a natural way. You are absolutely required to play proactively because of target priorities and mechanics. I do not think I have ever seen a vMA guide video where the player did not start hitting spawn points with AOE DOTs before anything even spawned! That's ridiculous and indicative of bad design. Players should be able to play the game without being forced to search the internet for cheat sheets. It should never be necessary to memorize a bunch of moves and strategies like a ballerina learning a choreography. Games should feel like fun, in my opinion, not a tiresome chore.

You can clear it like this, but you need a tanky build. I did my first clear on a heavy armour stam sorc build which allowed me to take a few hits and recover from pretty much everything.
It's only later that I started learning all the spawns so I could drop the resilience for higher dps and was able to just burn through it.

Emma_Overload

YES : Nerf vMA

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

No, the mechanics are not simple. That's why YouTube is full of vMA "guides" that should never have been necessary in the first place. It's is simply not possible to get through vMA by playing reactively in a natural way. You are absolutely required to play proactively because of target priorities and mechanics. I do not think I have ever seen a vMA guide video where the player did not start hitting spawn points with AOE DOTs before anything even spawned! That's ridiculous and indicative of bad design. Players should be able to play the game without being forced to search the internet for cheat sheets. It should never be necessary to memorize a bunch of moves and strategies like a ballerina learning a choreography. Games should feel like fun, in my opinion, not a tiresome chore.

Yet People cleared it before guides and addons for it existed and our characters were much weaker, so its hardly necessary to watch guides, spawn Points etc.

I remember what vMA was like when it launched. The guys who made the early guides probably died thousands of times and spent dozens of hours getting through their first run. I also remember that so few people could complete it in the beginning that the leaderboards were barely populated.

All that's really happened since then (besides the proliferation of guides) is power creep. This has made high DPS much easier to achieve for a larger pool of players, which helps many of them get higher scores, I'm sure. I do not believe, however, that there has ever been any kind of serious barrier to beating vMA other than the mechanics. When vMA came out, I was only doing 20K dps max on magicka toons, but that seems like enough for most content even now. The fact that I can easily do triple that DPS now has not made vMA (or any other mechanics heavy content) even one iota easier.

We may disagree on this, but as far as I can tell the only reason there are so many more vMA completions now is because there are tons of vMA guides and tons of players willing to slavishly memorize them. In my opinion, it's like solving a Rubik's Cube by reading a book that tells you step-by-step how to do it. It's an accomplishment, for sure, but it doesn't make you a friggin' genius, LOL. Maybe I'm just different from most forum posters, but I would rather have a solo arena that allowed fun, reactive play instead of one that required rote memorization of a choreography.

Emma_Overload

YES : Nerf vMA

Tannus15 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

And why everyone should endure a nerf because some are not able to do it? Common dps is far more enough now to do it for everyone ; such as the plenty of sets that didn't exist before. Mechanics are simple. What are the "complicated" mechanics there xd? kill an hoarver close to one pillar? OMG, that is SO difficult to get!

No, the mechanics are not simple. That's why YouTube is full of vMA "guides" that should never have been necessary in the first place. It is simply not possible to get through vMA by playing reactively in a natural way. You are absolutely required to play proactively because of target priorities and mechanics. I do not think I have ever seen a vMA guide video where the player did not start hitting spawn points with AOE DOTs before anything even spawned! That's ridiculous and indicative of bad design. Players should be able to play the game without being forced to search the internet for cheat sheets. It should never be necessary to memorize a bunch of moves and strategies like a ballerina learning a choreography. Games should feel like fun, in my opinion, not a tiresome chore.

You can clear it like this, but you need a tanky build. I did my first clear on a heavy armour stam sorc build which allowed me to take a few hits and recover from pretty much everything.
It's only later that I started learning all the spawns so I could drop the resilience for higher dps and was able to just burn through it.

It has been a while since I have tried a "tanky" build, but it may be time to try again. I've always been curious if the incoming damage on vMA could be reduced to nMA levels, and if doing that would actually make vMA as easy as nMA.

Kiralyn2000

NO : Dont nerf vMA

I haven't even done nMA, but I still vote No, because why nerf it?

Stebarnz wrote: »

If you answer yes you are basically saying, I don't know how to play the game and I don't want to learn.

Or they just have different priorities & focuses than you do. Not everyone is a Challenge/Achievement gamer, always trying to Be Number One™ or to top their previous <whatever>. /shrug


(I know that I'm not, and getting less so as I get older. But I'm also ok with saying "not all content is for me" and just ignoring Veteran stuff.)

TwistedRunestone

Make Maelstrom hard again

ccfeeling

NO : Dont nerf vMA

MojaveHeld wrote: »

I can complete it, but every time I go in there, it feels like pulling teeth to me. The amount of incoming damage is simply too high to be enjoyable.

It's very easy with nowday gears , practices make perfect .

Sanguinor2

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I remember what vMA was like when it launched. The guys who made the early guides probably died thousands of times and spent dozens of hours getting through their first run. I also remember that so few people could complete it in the beginning that the leaderboards were barely populated.

All that's really happened since then (besides the proliferation of guides) is power creep. This has made high DPS much easier to achieve for a larger pool of players, which helps many of them get higher scores, I'm sure. I do not believe, however, that there has ever been any kind of serious barrier to beating vMA other than the mechanics. When vMA came out, I was only doing 20K dps max on magicka toons, but that seems like enough for most content even now. The fact that I can easily do triple that DPS now has not made vMA (or any other mechanics heavy content) even one iota easier.

We may disagree on this, but as far as I can tell the only reason there are so many more vMA completions now is because there are tons of vMA guides and tons of players willing to slavishly memorize them. In my opinion, it's like solving a Rubik's Cube by reading a book that tells you step-by-step how to do it. It's an accomplishment, for sure, but it doesn't make you a friggin' genius, LOL. Maybe I'm just different from most forum posters, but I would rather have a solo arena that allowed fun, reactive play instead of one that required rote memorization of a choreography.

Power creep is a huge huge help in vMA, remember, power creep also goes to survivability not just dps 270 red cps make a huge difference. Also if you nuke everything before mechanics happen Content isnt mechanic heavy anymore so dps power creep Shows itself very heavily too imo.

Bobby_V_Rockit

YES : Nerf vMA

I just did normal mode for the first time since the busts dropped. Flawless run for me! Hahaha, but yes, I’m not going to bother with vet mode because I don’t want to break my controller. I’ll just wear my “maelstrom arena champion” title with pride

Tannus15

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

And why everyone should endure a nerf because some are not able to do it? Common dps is far more enough now to do it for everyone ; such as the plenty of sets that didn't exist before. Mechanics are simple. What are the "complicated" mechanics there xd? kill an hoarver close to one pillar? OMG, that is SO difficult to get!

No, the mechanics are not simple. That's why YouTube is full of vMA "guides" that should never have been necessary in the first place. It is simply not possible to get through vMA by playing reactively in a natural way. You are absolutely required to play proactively because of target priorities and mechanics. I do not think I have ever seen a vMA guide video where the player did not start hitting spawn points with AOE DOTs before anything even spawned! That's ridiculous and indicative of bad design. Players should be able to play the game without being forced to search the internet for cheat sheets. It should never be necessary to memorize a bunch of moves and strategies like a ballerina learning a choreography. Games should feel like fun, in my opinion, not a tiresome chore.

You can clear it like this, but you need a tanky build. I did my first clear on a heavy armour stam sorc build which allowed me to take a few hits and recover from pretty much everything.
It's only later that I started learning all the spawns so I could drop the resilience for higher dps and was able to just burn through it.

It has been a while since I have tried a "tanky" build, but it may be time to try again. I've always been curious if the incoming damage on vMA could be reduced to nMA levels, and if doing that would actually make vMA as easy as nMA.

You can quite literally face tank the crem guards. I used knight errant, seventh legion and tremorscale. your spammable is pierce armour, though ransack would be better when i think about it since you get the shield and you don't need breach.

I ran DW back bar with quick cloak for the speed buff, but you could run a bow with scatter shot for an interrupt for the same result i guess.
GL HF!

imredneckson

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Jagdkommando wrote: »

Hi all just another poll to see do we need vMA be nerfed. I will make 2 poll choices, so just yes or no, cuz even slightly nerf means: “yes i want vMA be nerfed” or no means : “Im ultimate killing machine we dont need any nerfs”.
Think twice before choosing...

As much as I would like for it to get nerfed so I could complete it, it doesn't need a nerf what so ever. There have been countless clears and countless Flawless Conquerors title awarded so no, vMA does not need a nerf.

WeylandLabs

NO : Dont nerf vMA

2020 VMA is nerfed + All Dungoens / Trials nerfed or strategically made easier.

2021 Being able to buy sets and weapons in the crown store will be available.

2022 Servers have a 1% increase in performance.

This poll is 😂

GraphicArtistYT

YES : Nerf vMA

Ye. They were supposed to nerf last year but they lied.

Vapirko

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Honestly you should just walk into the arena and they hand you whatever vMA weapon you want, I mean if you're going to nerf it to the point where it's easy then why even have it at all? It really just seems like most people want to be able to get through it on their one bar bow build with ease.

D0PAMINE

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Is the red cp tree setup at like 72/81 Ironclad, 56 in Ele Defender, Hardy and Thick Skinned? I pretty much use that for everything.

Daedric_NB_187

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Even though it has taken me a year (on and off) to get to the final stage and then be stuck on the final boss for the last three weeks, I don't feel it needs a nerf. I have started other characters in it and I can breeze through the stages a lot easier than when I was doing it on the one that is stuck. It really is just memory and being proactive. For me. The hardest part about VMA isn't all the damage you receive. It's that on some stages, everything damn near stuns you. Yes you have break free. But when you have lag in play, it is an automatic death sentence.

I do feel that stage 7 needs to be fixed. It is waaay to RNG specific. Other than that, maaaaybeee tone down the stuns just a tad. I don't know.

Sephyr

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Aside from the damn RNG (give us weapon tokens for crying out loud), no.

idk

NO : Dont nerf vMA

Emma_Overload wrote: »

idk wrote: »

vMA has already been seriously nerfed over the years. The heavy power creep we have had since vMA was added to the game makes it significantly easier than it initially was.

Yes the power creep is significant, but NO, vMA has NEVER been nerfed in any way that matters to players who have trouble with it. The only things that have been changed over the years are little bug fixes and minor adjustments that make it more convenient for players who can complete it anyway.

Target prioritization becomes tiresome at stage 5 and mechanics become needlessly complicated at stage 6, and things only get worse after that. Until the difficulty of stages 5 through 9 are reduced in a tangible way, you are going to hear calls for vMA nerfs on the forums year after year.

By way of the power creep vMA has been nerfed. It is no where near as challenging as it was originally. The mechanics are not are rough when you can burn stuff faster. Fortunately they have not gotten rid of mechanics to make it just slap stick silly.

So you can argue semantics all you want but it is a fact that vMA is exceedingly easier today than it has ever been.