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Stamcro Pay-to-Win absurdity should NOT continue another patch

SidewalkChalk5
SidewalkChalk5
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This game has become Elder Stamcros Online. Enough is enough. Necro is overperforming so much that it is affecting class diversity in trials. Top PVE DPS, Major Vulnerability, Rez ulti... These capabilities make Necro too good, an obvious Pay-to-Win class that should not exist in this game.
ZOS_KNowak wrote: »
We’ll be keeping a close eye on how the Necromancer performs as you level them up and learn how to use their abilities. Here are just some of the issues that we’ll be closely monitoring after Elsewyr launches:
  • Necromancer performance for Magicka and Stamina builds, as well as for Tanking, Healing, or Damage Dealing.
(https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/474456/necromancer-pts-wrapup)

Your monitoring should show that people who play other classes are losing their competitive standing because of this imbalanced Pay-to-Win class. Maybe that's acceptable for ONE patch, for the 3 months or so after release, but it really needs to be brought in line before Scalebreaker launches. For people who play other classes, 3 more months of Necro dominance will destroy any incentive to pick up this game.

Major Vulnerability and Rez ulti are the two largest culprits. I'm not saying nerf them, but ALL OTHER CLASSES need to be given something to keep up and remain competitive. Players are already leaving the game in droves due to the crappiest server performance ever. 3 more months of Pay-to-Win Stamcro dominance is just another reason to leave. This patch shouldn't go live without some effort to close the gap here.
Edited by SidewalkChalk5 on August 11, 2019 12:04AM
XBOX ONE | NA | 1200+ CP

Magnielle | Aldmeri Dominion | High Elf | Templar | DPS/Healer | Grand Master Crafter | Former Emperor | The Flawless Conqueror
  • satanio
    satanio
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    Ressurection ulti has been already nerfed once during Elsweyr pts. It is very expensive skill that is purely situational.
    Major Vuln will get something in future I think. There is too many tears on forums :wink:
    Edited by satanio on August 10, 2019 6:09PM
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  • iCaliban
    iCaliban
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    Eh. There should be some reward for coordination. Giving major vuln a small cooldown like off balance would be sufficient IMO. Nerf the uptime to 60% or so instead of 100%

    Im more annoyed with the insane grind required for perfected loki and how much power creep it introduced.
    Edited by iCaliban on August 10, 2019 5:26PM
  • SidewalkChalk5
    SidewalkChalk5
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    Lol 3 months is too long? Stamblades were meta from CWC to Elsweyr, that's 1.5 years. 3 months is rookie numbers:)

    I'm not just talking about a class being meta. These are insanely OP abilities compared to anything any other class has. They can stay top DPS meta class for all I care, but it's sort of crazy for them to also have the two greatest utility ultimates ever put in the game. All I'm saying is the other classes need some attention to bring their ulti's up to this new standard, otherwise endgame trials are going to stay really boring with 1 class to rule them all.
    XBOX ONE | NA | 1200+ CP

    Magnielle | Aldmeri Dominion | High Elf | Templar | DPS/Healer | Grand Master Crafter | Former Emperor | The Flawless Conqueror
  • Pallio
    Pallio
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    Until they get their money's worth out of everyone chasing the new meta.. then the old bait and switch, see Warden.
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    Lol 3 months is too long? Stamblades were meta from CWC to Elsweyr, that's 1.5 years. 3 months is rookie numbers:)

    I'm not just talking about a class being meta. These are insanely OP abilities compared to anything any other class has. They can stay top DPS meta class for all I care, but it's sort of crazy for them to also have the two greatest utility ultimates ever put in the game. All I'm saying is the other classes need some attention to bring their ulti's up to this new standard, otherwise endgame trials are going to stay really boring with 1 class to rule them all.

    You understand that even if necros, tomorrow, lost major vulnerability that them being the highest dps would make them the go to dps spec anyway in endgame PvE yes?

    I'm not sure if you want what you think you want, or have class envy here.
    "Should I do it? No. Will I do it? Of ***ing course I will."
    "Offense is taken, not given."
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    Hailie the Returned: Bosmer Stamina Necromancer 2H DPS
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    Nivek the Shadow: Imperial Stamina Nightblade DPS
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    Koht: Imperial (dremora) Dragonknight Tank
    Hailie Silverthorn: Bosmer Stamina Templar DPS
    Araenandriah Lyrovehkem: Bosmer Stamina Nightblade DPS
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    Vehk Silverthorn: Imperial Necromancer Tank in training
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  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Lol 3 months is too long? Stamblades were meta from CWC to Elsweyr, that's 1.5 years. 3 months is rookie numbers:)

    I'm not just talking about a class being meta. These are insanely OP abilities compared to anything any other class has. They can stay top DPS meta class for all I care, but it's sort of crazy for them to also have the two greatest utility ultimates ever put in the game. All I'm saying is the other classes need some attention to bring their ulti's up to this new standard, otherwise endgame trials are going to stay really boring with 1 class to rule them all.

    You understand that even if necros, tomorrow, lost major vulnerability that them being the highest dps would make them the go to dps spec anyway in endgame PvE yes?

    I'm not sure if you want what you think you want, or have class envy here.

    If Necros lost Major Vuln they wouldnt be top dps
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Lol 3 months is too long? Stamblades were meta from CWC to Elsweyr, that's 1.5 years. 3 months is rookie numbers:)

    I'm not just talking about a class being meta. These are insanely OP abilities compared to anything any other class has. They can stay top DPS meta class for all I care, but it's sort of crazy for them to also have the two greatest utility ultimates ever put in the game. All I'm saying is the other classes need some attention to bring their ulti's up to this new standard, otherwise endgame trials are going to stay really boring with 1 class to rule them all.

    You understand that even if necros, tomorrow, lost major vulnerability that them being the highest dps would make them the go to dps spec anyway in endgame PvE yes?

    I'm not sure if you want what you think you want, or have class envy here.

    If Necros lost Major Vuln they wouldnt be top dps

    Doesn't vuln give the entire raid the buff? How would their numbers fall if the atro only did damage?
    "Should I do it? No. Will I do it? Of ***ing course I will."
    "Offense is taken, not given."
    Kevehk Silverthorn: Breton Magicka Sorcerer pet DPS
    Hailie the Returned: Bosmer Stamina Necromancer 2H DPS
    Glacius Cromeum: Imperial Stamina Templar 2H DPS
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    Vehk Silverthorn: Imperial Necromancer Tank in training
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  • SidewalkChalk5
    SidewalkChalk5
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    You understand that even if necros, tomorrow, lost major vulnerability that them being the highest dps would make them the go to dps spec anyway in endgame PvE yes?

    I'm not sure if you want what you think you want, or have class envy here.

    Not sure if anything from your comment even applies to what I said. I want them to keep Major Vuln, and I don't care if they stay top DPS. I'm just saying the Pay-to-Win went too far and the other classes need to be brought up to par with some enhancements to their group utility. There should be a reason to bring a diverse assortment of classes to trials, rather than just stacking 6-10 guys running the same OP build. The imbalance is pretty severe and its not good for the health of the game when balance decisions are tainted by profit motive.
    XBOX ONE | NA | 1200+ CP

    Magnielle | Aldmeri Dominion | High Elf | Templar | DPS/Healer | Grand Master Crafter | Former Emperor | The Flawless Conqueror
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    You understand that even if necros, tomorrow, lost major vulnerability that them being the highest dps would make them the go to dps spec anyway in endgame PvE yes?

    I'm not sure if you want what you think you want, or have class envy here.

    Not sure if anything from your comment even applies to what I said. I want them to keep Major Vuln, and I don't care if they stay top DPS. I'm just saying the Pay-to-Win went too far and the other classes need to be brought up to par with some enhancements to their group utility. There should be a reason to bring a diverse assortment of classes to trials, rather than just stacking 6-10 guys running the same OP build. The imbalance is pretty severe and its not good for the health of the game when balance decisions are tainted by profit motive.

    Yeah, I have no idea what you're asking for. You recognize that major vuln and highest PvE dps both belong exclusively to necro. Okay. You say that people only choosing necro is bad for the health of the game. Good, so far we agree. You think something needs to be added to other classes?

    Like what?
    "Should I do it? No. Will I do it? Of ***ing course I will."
    "Offense is taken, not given."
    Kevehk Silverthorn: Breton Magicka Sorcerer pet DPS
    Hailie the Returned: Bosmer Stamina Necromancer 2H DPS
    Glacius Cromeum: Imperial Stamina Templar 2H DPS
    Nivek the Shadow: Imperial Stamina Nightblade DPS
    Syldraaendril Nightwood: Bosmer Stamina Warden DPS
    Koht: Imperial (dremora) Dragonknight Tank
    Hailie Silverthorn: Bosmer Stamina Templar DPS
    Araenandriah Lyrovehkem: Bosmer Stamina Nightblade DPS
    Titus Morric Silverthorn: Imperial Stamina Dragonknight DPS
    Kartendor: Altmer Sorcerer Tank
    Sephy-Lemme-Smash: Argonian Warden Tank
    Aeris Silverthorn: Breton Templar Healer
    Ji'Vashi: Khajiit Stamina Nightblade 2H DPS
    Danron Lyrovehkem: Imperial HeckifIknow Sorcerer

    Vehk Silverthorn: Imperial Necromancer Tank in training
    Kevin Silverthorn: Imperial Necromancer Healer in training.
  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    Vote with your subs when have they ever cared about new being OP? They know it’s OP they want you to buy the OP class to cash in before the nerf.

    Just like every year they sell the last expansion at a discounted price right before it becomes part of the base game.
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  • chongguang
    chongguang
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    I think the new team really has the result of market research which shows PVE players are more than PVPers. So they make nercros to be a PVE meta but careless designed PVP aspect, I mean balance...
    Like many said, Stam Necros without Maj Vul will be at the same level as other DPS classes, like poison Drogon, NB , Stamina Sorcs and so on.
    However the unique Maj Vul providing make the situation totally to be another story. It is the one we see this patch and will continue in the next one.
  • ebix_
    ebix_
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    Leave my PVP stamcro major vulnerability alone.
    I dont give a **** about trials.

    it's not just about you ...
    the ult can change to give major berserk , 20% damage only for you they can increase the duration for compensation of that 10% , but 30 % for everyone is too much . 2 Colossus at the same time can kill 90 % of a zerg without even considering 30% more damage on all dots and damages for 5 secs , so don't tell me necro should be left untouched .
    if you are in pc eu then I will cu ^^
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    iCaliban wrote: »
    Eh. There should be some reward for coordination.

    This irks me. I totally agree with you but the devs went a long way to *** „coordination“ over. I remember the time when some stam sets gave unnamed penetration instead of standard debuffs so raids had a reward for some Build coordination etc. But ZOS decided to erase this behavior. And now they come up with the most op debuff on their current pay gated class? With no cooldown just after they put one on off balance? Zeni isn‘t rewarding coordination, they‘re rewarding you for putting money on the table. This class will get gutted and left in shambles as soon as a new cash cow gets released. Ask any warden main about that.
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on August 11, 2019 8:52AM
  • xMovingTarget
    xMovingTarget
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    First they HAVE TO fix the class. Blastbones still Jack's up and us unusable, syphon still turns you around wasting a gcd..
  • frostz417
    frostz417
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    See I’d like to agree with you. But before the chapter the last 1.5 years was nothing but stam and magblades. F that crap. I’m glad it’s something new for once. So sick of the stupid ass nightblade meta and so happy it’s gone.
  • heaven13
    heaven13
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Problem is that the hardest achievement in Sunspire (Godslayer) requires multiple necromancer(stamina) to accomplish, which is a horrible design. ZOS needs to increase the speedrun in vSS to 40 minutes.

    vMoL and vHoF speedrun are both 40 minutes, so it only makes sense for vSS to be 40 minutes too. That way it would allow a bit more "freedom" of what you can bring.

    Main issue with necromancer is the access to major vulnerability. ZOS needs to straight up remove that debuff completely or only let it apply for the caster.

    If you look at the leaderboard for vSS (the current weekly on PC-NA):
    • Top Score: 8 necros, a dk, a templar, a warden, and a nightblade
    • 2nd: 8 necros, a dk, a templar, a warden, and a nightblade

    This is fairly representative for at the least top 5 runs on PC NA right now, if not farther down (it gets hard to tell with the missing info due to the leaderboard bug). I'm not calling for nerfs to the point of necro not being viable, and I like the classes to have their own strengths to bring to the table (rather than the homogenization that we seem to be getting this patch) but no class should be so overpowered that it's making up the bulk of trial groups like this.

    Note: This is also not a slight against those who are in these top spots. Regardless of their class, they're obviously very skilled players and would still take top scores.
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  • Jaimeh
    Jaimeh
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    I was told I could join a group only if I had a necro, because they were going for all-stamcro DDs... This was on EU server where I sadly don't have one levelled yet, and although I understand having a configuration like that for score pushing, I still think it's an overkill for just for a vet progression group. Because it's a really strong spec, the new trend is basically having the class and its major vuln perk carry through the content, but this is not something new: DPS has always been the deus ex machina with difficult fights and mechanics, and I've talked about this being a problem for many reasons before. At least, this is only relevant for top-tier end-game, and even there, players who know what they're doing can pull great numbers without having a necro. However, I wouldn't consider it pay-to-win, you still have to level the character and learn to play it, and in the same vein, then you'd have to say that for example vMA weapons are pay-to-win, since they are also locked behind a DLC, but you still have to clear the content in order to get them. They have to make expansions worth getting, and just adding story content, won't make them attractive enough, thus we get new gear, classes, etc., alongside.
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  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    It's going to be even worse bro. Detonating Siphon is being fixed and as of Scalebreaker it will work on bosses in Sunspire, meaning even higher dps of stamina necro.
  • Vlad9425
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    Is it really a surprise that a paid class is over performing? I mean we literally had the same thing with Wardens years back and they are still one of the strongest setups you can run in PVP.
  • OtarTheMad
    OtarTheMad
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    ebix_ wrote: »
    Leave my PVP stamcro major vulnerability alone.
    I dont give a **** about trials.

    it's not just about you ...
    the ult can change to give major berserk , 20% damage only for you they can increase the duration for compensation of that 10% , but 30 % for everyone is too much . 2 Colossus at the same time can kill 90 % of a zerg without even considering 30% more damage on all dots and damages for 5 secs , so don't tell me necro should be left untouched .

    While I do agree about the ults I also must mention that let's say that Sunspire didn't exist or was worked so Necros weren't "required". I bet not many would even bother with the class even with maj vulnerability on the ult. In PvP it's extremely avoidable, I don't think it's ever killed me in Cyro or BGs yet. As for PvE, well that's just the players at the top of the leaderboards jumping on a favorable mechanic, it has nothing to do with Necros themselves. You take them out of it and how many Necro players are left? Probably not a lot.

    So I question: can a class be pay-to-win if it's the Trial itself that makes the class desirable? The top of the leaderboard will ALWAYS jump on the thing that will get them top scores (and you know what, they should be able to do that). If it's not necro then it'll be another thing. I don't think the leaderboard chasers should dictate what happens to a class and neither should the scrubs/whiners of the game either. We all have a voice.
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  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Leave my PVP stamcro major vulnerability alone.
    I dont give a **** about trials.
    ZOS did not gave a **** about my solo PvE (overland, n-dungeons and nMA & vMA) when they nerfed WW. Just saying...
  • OtarTheMad
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    heaven13 wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Problem is that the hardest achievement in Sunspire (Godslayer) requires multiple necromancer(stamina) to accomplish, which is a horrible design. ZOS needs to increase the speedrun in vSS to 40 minutes.

    vMoL and vHoF speedrun are both 40 minutes, so it only makes sense for vSS to be 40 minutes too. That way it would allow a bit more "freedom" of what you can bring.

    Main issue with necromancer is the access to major vulnerability. ZOS needs to straight up remove that debuff completely or only let it apply for the caster.

    If you look at the leaderboard for vSS (the current weekly on PC-NA):
    • Top Score: 8 necros, a dk, a templar, a warden, and a nightblade
    • 2nd: 8 necros, a dk, a templar, a warden, and a nightblade

    This is fairly representative for at the least top 5 runs on PC NA right now, if not farther down (it gets hard to tell with the missing info due to the leaderboard bug). I'm not calling for nerfs to the point of necro not being viable, and I like the classes to have their own strengths to bring to the table (rather than the homogenization that we seem to be getting this patch) but no class should be so overpowered that it's making up the bulk of trial groups like this.

    Note: This is also not a slight against those who are in these top spots. Regardless of their class, they're obviously very skilled players and would still take top scores.

    But that's pretty much the only trial (on PC-NA) where it's overpopulated by Necros. Hel-ra, AA, SO don't have many. DSA, BRP, AS, CR have almost none. HoF seems like a normalish spread of all classes and MoL have a good amount in the top but then almost none after. Hell AS and CR seem to be dominated by Templars. That doesn't scream OP or pay to win to me. Just seems like skilled players using necros to complete Sunspire, maybe Sunspire should be adjusted not necros.

    So yeah, completely horrible design but Sunspire is the only place it comes up really. Change Sunspire and you'll see Necro usage drop, even if they didn't change the debuff.
    Edited by OtarTheMad on August 11, 2019 4:14PM
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