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BEST OF ALL !!!

TheHsN
TheHsN
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To be able to make all skills and classes even(equal) to each other, Zos destroyed their personality, characteristics, and diversity.

All of them look like each other. To be able to make every class best in TANK, DPS, And HEAL and making them all equal to each other. That is impossible...

I Always Say ;

Tank should be TANK
DPS should be DPS
HEALER should be HEALER,

Add more classes to the game as a tank, dps and heal


You cant make them best for all and you cant make them even without destroying their personality, characteristics, and diversity. Another way you can't make everyone happy.

And as A players we need to stop asking for all. I like to play Sorcerer but also I want it to be the best Tank and Best Healer and one shot to other players at the same time:))) WRONG!!!

I think:
if I want to play Healer I need to play Templar Or Warden
If I want to play DPS it should be NB or Sorcerer
If I want to play Tank it Should be DK or Necro...
Or i should accept that they cant be the Best of All as DPS, Tank, Healer and no asks all the time buffs or nerfs

And of course, templar should be the best to heal and heal more than other classes
And of course, Sorcerer and NB should be the Best DPS classes other than the DK, Warden, Templar, and necro
And of course, DK should be the Best Tank other than Sorcerer and Templar ETC...

Edited by TheHsN on August 11, 2019 9:19PM
Plays:
Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka Templar - PvE
Stamina Templar - PvP
Magicka DK - PvE
Stamina DK - PvE
  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
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    If you want to be DPS, you better be stamcro :D

    for now yes it is:)))
    i just gave some examples cant write all of them :)))
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I get what you are saying Op. They devs are slowly making all classes the same....which is destroying diversity. Pretty soon the only difference between the classes will be what color you want to look at. Red for DK, Light yellow for templar, purple for sorc, dark red for NB, and sonon and so forth.

    Where's tge fun in that I say. Sounds pretty boring to me.

    Exactly
    Thank you...
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • Muzzick
    Muzzick
    ✭✭✭✭
    I get what you are saying Op. They devs are slowly making all classes the same....which is destroying diversity. Pretty soon the only difference between the classes will be what color you want to look at. Red for DK, Light yellow for templar, purple for sorc, dark red for NB, and sonon and so forth.

    Where's tge fun in that I say. Sounds pretty boring to me.

    I can definitely see the future nerf threads with NB and sorc fighting over who gets to be blue, eventually we'll all be one color or all rainbows
  • darkblue5
    darkblue5
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    Just because (since launch) all classes have had the minimum tools to be a dps doesn't mean they're all dps classes. Just because all healers are (were?) close to having minimum tols for end-game healing doesn't mean there aren't best healer classes. Just because all tanks now can minimally perform all that's needed as endgame tanks doesn't mean there isn't a best tank class.

    Best DPS hands down = Necromancer
    Best healer hands down = Templar
    Best tank hands down = Dragonknight

    Lots of people seem to hate the notion that "non-meta" tanks and healers can exist and minimally fulfill the roles expected of them. But fewer seem annoyed at templars, wardens, and dragonknights being able to DPS at all. Classes being able to be just marginally competent at a role doesn't mean that "class identity" is out the window. Kind of funny how rarely people argue for stripping out dps from half the classes for "class identity". Maybe because ESO really isn't built around class identity and is instead based on the identity of specializations within classes....
  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    Just because (since launch) all classes have had the minimum tools to be a dps doesn't mean they're all dps classes. Just because all healers are (were?) close to having minimum tols for end-game healing doesn't mean there aren't best healer classes. Just because all tanks now can minimally perform all that's needed as endgame tanks doesn't mean there isn't a best tank class.

    Best DPS hands down = Necromancer
    Best healer hands down = Templar
    Best tank hands down = Dragonknight

    Lots of people seem to hate the notion that "non-meta" tanks and healers can exist and minimally fulfill the roles expected of them. But fewer seem annoyed at templars, wardens, and dragonknights being able to DPS at all. Classes being able to be just marginally competent at a role doesn't mean that "class identity" is out the window. Kind of funny how rarely people argue for stripping out dps from half the classes for "class identity". Maybe because ESO really isn't built around class identity and is instead based on the identity of specializations within classes....

    That is why in every 3 months we take balance updates that destroy the balance... We cant even play for 2 months with our build that we made an effort to build and spend a lot of times.
    the game becomes like a test subject.
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • darkblue5
    darkblue5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheHsN wrote: »
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    Just because (since launch) all classes have had the minimum tools to be a dps doesn't mean they're all dps classes. Just because all healers are (were?) close to having minimum tols for end-game healing doesn't mean there aren't best healer classes. Just because all tanks now can minimally perform all that's needed as endgame tanks doesn't mean there isn't a best tank class.

    Best DPS hands down = Necromancer
    Best healer hands down = Templar
    Best tank hands down = Dragonknight

    Lots of people seem to hate the notion that "non-meta" tanks and healers can exist and minimally fulfill the roles expected of them. But fewer seem annoyed at templars, wardens, and dragonknights being able to DPS at all. Classes being able to be just marginally competent at a role doesn't mean that "class identity" is out the window. Kind of funny how rarely people argue for stripping out dps from half the classes for "class identity". Maybe because ESO really isn't built around class identity and is instead based on the identity of specializations within classes....

    That is why in every 3 months we take balance updates that destroy the balance... We cant even play for 2 months with our build that we made an effort to build and spend a lot of times.
    the game becomes like a test subject.

    A new lead dev has just come in. Larger changes are happening now than will happen later. Yet at the same time Dragonknights remain the best tanks, Templars remain the best healers, and Necromancers (designed to be the best DPS) remain the best DPS.
    The meta sets remain almost unchanged baring the addition of Sunspire sets.

    Magicka mains complaining about having to run more than 1 non-class skill is really funny to me. (And now actually the new DOTS are usually replacing Inner Light as of v5.1.4 which is a skill only you magicka dps has access to... instead of class skills.... :unamused:) The still meta vMA dual wield stamina specs at least use maybe a class skill... but stamplar and stamsorc in particular are extremely low on DPS spec identity. Stamdk is almost as boring as PVE stamplar and stamsorc this patch. Those 3 specs need an identity before I'll care about a magcro having to slot Soul Trap and Entropy over double barred Inner Light.
  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    TheHsN wrote: »
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    Just because (since launch) all classes have had the minimum tools to be a dps doesn't mean they're all dps classes. Just because all healers are (were?) close to having minimum tols for end-game healing doesn't mean there aren't best healer classes. Just because all tanks now can minimally perform all that's needed as endgame tanks doesn't mean there isn't a best tank class.

    Best DPS hands down = Necromancer
    Best healer hands down = Templar
    Best tank hands down = Dragonknight

    Lots of people seem to hate the notion that "non-meta" tanks and healers can exist and minimally fulfill the roles expected of them. But fewer seem annoyed at templars, wardens, and dragonknights being able to DPS at all. Classes being able to be just marginally competent at a role doesn't mean that "class identity" is out the window. Kind of funny how rarely people argue for stripping out dps from half the classes for "class identity". Maybe because ESO really isn't built around class identity and is instead based on the identity of specializations within classes....

    That is why in every 3 months we take balance updates that destroy the balance... We cant even play for 2 months with our build that we made an effort to build and spend a lot of times.
    the game becomes like a test subject.

    A new lead dev has just come in. Larger changes are happening now than will happen later. Yet at the same time Dragonknights remain the best tanks, Templars remain the best healers, and Necromancers (designed to be the best DPS) remain the best DPS.
    The meta sets remain almost unchanged baring the addition of Sunspire sets.

    Magicka mains complaining about having to run more than 1 non-class skill is really funny to me. (And now actually the new DOTS are usually replacing Inner Light as of v5.1.4 which is a skill only you magicka dps has access to... instead of class skills.... :unamused:) The still meta vMA dual wield stamina specs at least use maybe a class skill... but stamplar and stamsorc in particular are extremely low on DPS spec identity. Stamdk is almost as boring as PVE stamplar and stamsorc this patch. Those 3 specs need an identity before I'll care about a magcro having to slot Soul Trap and Entropy over double barred Inner Light.

    My main is not Just Magicka I also main StamNB. So you don't need to say you "Magicka" and those up you complain actually we talk about the same things but u don't get me well:)))
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • Austinseph1
    Austinseph1
    ✭✭✭
    So... Go from 24 Possible class combinations to... 6? Easier to balance, but then they have to make a half a dozen more classes to make it not be super boring. Considering the changes coming all the classes will feel the same anyway so its already on the way XD.
    Edited by Austinseph1 on August 7, 2019 11:14PM
  • Pallio
    Pallio
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    More classes, that wear exactly same gear. Variety
  • darkblue5
    darkblue5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheHsN wrote: »
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    TheHsN wrote: »
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    Just because (since launch) all classes have had the minimum tools to be a dps doesn't mean they're all dps classes. Just because all healers are (were?) close to having minimum tols for end-game healing doesn't mean there aren't best healer classes. Just because all tanks now can minimally perform all that's needed as endgame tanks doesn't mean there isn't a best tank class.

    Best DPS hands down = Necromancer
    Best healer hands down = Templar
    Best tank hands down = Dragonknight

    Lots of people seem to hate the notion that "non-meta" tanks and healers can exist and minimally fulfill the roles expected of them. But fewer seem annoyed at templars, wardens, and dragonknights being able to DPS at all. Classes being able to be just marginally competent at a role doesn't mean that "class identity" is out the window. Kind of funny how rarely people argue for stripping out dps from half the classes for "class identity". Maybe because ESO really isn't built around class identity and is instead based on the identity of specializations within classes....

    That is why in every 3 months we take balance updates that destroy the balance... We cant even play for 2 months with our build that we made an effort to build and spend a lot of times.
    the game becomes like a test subject.

    A new lead dev has just come in. Larger changes are happening now than will happen later. Yet at the same time Dragonknights remain the best tanks, Templars remain the best healers, and Necromancers (designed to be the best DPS) remain the best DPS.
    The meta sets remain almost unchanged baring the addition of Sunspire sets.

    Magicka mains complaining about having to run more than 1 non-class skill is really funny to me. (And now actually the new DOTS are usually replacing Inner Light as of v5.1.4 which is a skill only you magicka dps has access to... instead of class skills.... :unamused:) The still meta vMA dual wield stamina specs at least use maybe a class skill... but stamplar and stamsorc in particular are extremely low on DPS spec identity. Stamdk is almost as boring as PVE stamplar and stamsorc this patch. Those 3 specs need an identity before I'll care about a magcro having to slot Soul Trap and Entropy over double barred Inner Light.

    My main is not Just Magicka I also main StamNB. So you don't need to say you "Magicka" and those up you complain actually we talk about the same things but u don't get me well:)))
    TheHsN wrote: »
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    TheHsN wrote: »
    darkblue5 wrote: »
    Just because (since launch) all classes have had the minimum tools to be a dps doesn't mean they're all dps classes. Just because all healers are (were?) close to having minimum tols for end-game healing doesn't mean there aren't best healer classes. Just because all tanks now can minimally perform all that's needed as endgame tanks doesn't mean there isn't a best tank class.

    Best DPS hands down = Necromancer
    Best healer hands down = Templar
    Best tank hands down = Dragonknight

    Lots of people seem to hate the notion that "non-meta" tanks and healers can exist and minimally fulfill the roles expected of them. But fewer seem annoyed at templars, wardens, and dragonknights being able to DPS at all. Classes being able to be just marginally competent at a role doesn't mean that "class identity" is out the window. Kind of funny how rarely people argue for stripping out dps from half the classes for "class identity". Maybe because ESO really isn't built around class identity and is instead based on the identity of specializations within classes....

    That is why in every 3 months we take balance updates that destroy the balance... We cant even play for 2 months with our build that we made an effort to build and spend a lot of times.
    the game becomes like a test subject.

    A new lead dev has just come in. Larger changes are happening now than will happen later. Yet at the same time Dragonknights remain the best tanks, Templars remain the best healers, and Necromancers (designed to be the best DPS) remain the best DPS.
    The meta sets remain almost unchanged baring the addition of Sunspire sets.

    Magicka mains complaining about having to run more than 1 non-class skill is really funny to me. (And now actually the new DOTS are usually replacing Inner Light as of v5.1.4 which is a skill only you magicka dps has access to... instead of class skills.... :unamused:) The still meta vMA dual wield stamina specs at least use maybe a class skill... but stamplar and stamsorc in particular are extremely low on DPS spec identity. Stamdk is almost as boring as PVE stamplar and stamsorc this patch. Those 3 specs need an identity before I'll care about a magcro having to slot Soul Trap and Entropy over double barred Inner Light.

    My main is not Just Magicka I also main StamNB. So you don't need to say you "Magicka" and those up you complain actually we talk about the same things but u don't get me well:)))

    Second paragraph wasn't @ you in specific which I guess I could have made actually clear. Essentially, I think that ZOS isn't changing how the classes are set up as far as tank/healer goes. DPS historically has been potentially any class. For example Dragonknight at launch was the best dps and the only functioning tank.

    Personally I'm not actually opposed to all PVE specs having their chance at #1 but having all the specs (tank/healer/magDD/stamDD) actually have some flavor besides shiny graphics. I don't think it'd be bad for DKs to fall to 3rd for a patch for desirable tanks. I don't think that'd be the end of the world. I don't think the sky would crash down even if magplar fell to last for healer for a patch. All that said there is almost no way ZOS would allow that to happen. ZOS believes as you do,


    Sort of related to my not exactly directed at you thoughts about "homogenization".

    As far as your PVE dps rotation is concerned there isn't that big a difference between Consuming Trap, Poison Injection, Destructive Reach, Vampire's Bane, Crippling Grasp, Haunting Curse, Daedric Curse, (double casted) Fetcherfly Infection, Skeletal Archer/Mage, Power of the Light etc etc etc.
    All are essentially single target DOTs. A couple have mechanics that add a twist like Fetcherfly Infection or Power of the Light (when it worked and wasn't a DPS loss). As far as a rotation goes the main thing that distinguishes these is their priority for refreshing them. Otherwise the just do single target DOT things in PVE for some length of time.
    Honestly I find it a bit dull to say the least. I find them pretty homogenized already and in most boss fights AOE DOTs are basically the same thing but with even fewer twists! TBH in most boss fights Blazing Spear is identical to Lightning Flood is identical to Wall of Elements for the DPS using the skill.

    Grim Focus! Now there's a bit of flavor! There's something that is at least somewhat interesting in the rotation!
  • ebix_
    ebix_
    ✭✭✭
    it's very hard to do but I think at this point easiest solution is to remove all weapon and guild abilities and instead give each class their new own class abilities , no shared abilities between classes.
    like giving stam sorc and dk their own class spammable or giving each class a new ability tree specifically for pvp.
    this way even balancing things will be easier ,for example one ability is working fine overall but then overpowered for one class because of their passives . so either you have to nerf that class passives or that shared ability which makes it useless for other classes ..
    it's like if your class have good passives you gonna be good .. what defines a good class right now is mostly their class passives and not abilities .
    Edited by ebix_ on August 8, 2019 9:04AM
    if you are in pc eu then I will cu ^^
  • iRaivyne
    iRaivyne
    I don't think having every class able to fill every role is a problem. As long as they can't fill multiple roles at the same time (especially in PvP).
  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
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    iRaivyne wrote: »
    I don't think having every class able to fill every role is a problem. As long as they can't fill multiple roles at the same time (especially in PvP).

    That's why the game balance is in a terrible state... when u play more you will see and understand more believe me.
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah no thanks. There is so many stats and bonuses in the game, you can make unique class identiies without making 1 class good at only 1 thing. There is simple solutions to fix class identity that ZOS is most likely aware of, but take time to implement. Next patch's focus is the passive Audit's which directly influence the potency of potentially every ability in the game.

    The logical answer is to take away some of the power from CP and give it back to classes. At this point, every CP tree has TINY differences from one another, as long as you spread your points evenly without high diminishing returns, you can do next to no wrong for your build. What does it matter if you do +5% shock damage, it's not going to influence your decision of Shock Blockade over Flame Blockade. You think any Mag Warden is slotting Frost Blockade over flame? No they're not. So we end up with every build using the same skills, whichever is strongest at the time.

    As a quick example from a DD perspective, a solution would be to increase the potency of each classes special damage types, instead of 5% shock/physical damage, it could increase by 10/15% . They're currently too weak to make a difference and CP covers too much generic across the board damage types. CP is also being re-evaluated currently, so from my perspective they're most likely heading in this direction.

    I'm guessing the idea behind passives will introduce more dynamic interactions to, aka Burning Light passive which offers Templars incentives to use that skill tree. Even if 2 spammables have comparable damage, a templar may be more inclined to use something that interacts better with their passives. Sorc's for example don't really have anything. There are so many passives that do nothing or work on every ability.

    Anyway, just speculation, but they confirmed 4 things, skill standardization (so what makes a class skill unique?), class identity issues, a class passive audit next, and looking at completely revamping CP (my guess is moving away from % based damage increases for everyone).

    So yeah, sucks not knowing what's coming and it sucks that we get a 1 chunk of their overall combat vision every 3 months, but I do not agree with OP at all.

    I really hope zos looks at cp real hard because it is the most broken aspect of the game. I think they have finally realized that.
    DC PC NA
    magdk- main
    magden alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
    magdk
    magblade
    stamplar
    magden
    magsorc

  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
    ✭✭✭✭
    ebix_ wrote: »
    it's very hard to do but I think at this point easiest solution is to remove all weapon and guild abilities and instead give each class their new own class abilities , no shared abilities between classes.
    like giving stam sorc and dk their own class spammable or giving each class a new ability tree specifically for pvp.
    this way even balancing things will be easier ,for example one ability is working fine overall but then overpowered for one class because of their passives . so either you have to nerf that class passives or that shared ability which makes it useless for other classes ..
    it's like if your class have good passives you gonna be good .. what defines a good class right now is mostly their class passives and not abilities .

    Weapon skill lines should complement the class but for Stam builds like stamsorc and Stamdk it’s not like that. Then you have magick melee classes but no melee weapon for them and it messes things up for them
    DC PC NA
    magdk- main
    magden alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
    magdk
    magblade
    stamplar
    magden
    magsorc

  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    ✭✭✭
    Personally I liked the original (2014) class design better. Each class was able to be relatively effective at every role, but using different methods & gameplay.
    NB for example, was able to be a quite good tank not by a raw "tankyness" but through damaging enemies, they were able to keep themselfs alive & provide some heals & utility for the group.
    Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on August 9, 2019 7:18AM
  • Cathexis
    Cathexis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheHsN wrote: »
    To be able to make all skills and classes even(equal) to each other, Zos destroyed their personality, characteristics, and diversity.

    All of them look like each other. To be able to make every class best in TANK, DPS, And HEAL and making them all equal to each other. That is impossible...

    I Always Say ;

    Tank should be TANK
    DPS should be DPS
    HEALER should be HEALER,

    Add more classes to the game as a tank, dps and heal


    You cant make them best for all and you cant make them even without destroying their personality, characteristics, and diversity. Another way you can't make everyone happy.

    And as A players we need to stop asking for all. I like to play Sorcerer but also I want it to be the best Tank and Best Healer and one shot to other players at the same time:))) WRONG!!!

    I think:
    if I want to play Healer I need to play Templar Or Warden
    If I want to play DPS it should be NB or Sorcerer
    If I want to play Tank it Should be DK or Necro...

    And of course, templar should be the best to heal and heal more than other classes
    And of course, Sorcerer and NB should be the Best DPS classes other than the DK, Warden, Templar, and necro
    And of course, DK should be the Best Tank other than Sorcerer and Templar ETC...

    This is philosophically problematic, because the functionality of skills allows certain classes to completely ignore those boundaries, and conceptually these roles, especially tanking and healing, bleed into each other considerably. The concept of the elder scrolls series also banks on the idea that you can create conceptually divergent thematic concepts of your character that doesn't fundamentally slot them into a particular role. I know that the tank/dps/healer divisions are a prevalent theme, but pragmatically creating "best of" divisions doesn't work for classes because certain roles are fundamentally more effective in certain metas.

    Eg if the meta is healing, and I'm not a templar or a warden by your rules, then I am immediately disadvantaged, and then it follows that every player should be playing a templar or a warden in order to optimize, and then that kills the prevalence of class diversity in the open world, particularly in pvp.
    Edited by Cathexis on August 9, 2019 5:00PM
    Praise Malacath.
  • Marginis
    Marginis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd personally prefer not to be stuck playing one role when there's no way to change a character's class. I do have multiple characters, but hell if I have enough time to level them all up to champion rank and farm out gear for each one of them. Do I not deserve to be able to play multiple roles in ESO too?
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cathexis wrote: »
    TheHsN wrote: »
    To be able to make all skills and classes even(equal) to each other, Zos destroyed their personality, characteristics, and diversity.

    All of them look like each other. To be able to make every class best in TANK, DPS, And HEAL and making them all equal to each other. That is impossible...

    I Always Say ;

    Tank should be TANK
    DPS should be DPS
    HEALER should be HEALER,

    Add more classes to the game as a tank, dps and heal


    You cant make them best for all and you cant make them even without destroying their personality, characteristics, and diversity. Another way you can't make everyone happy.

    And as A players we need to stop asking for all. I like to play Sorcerer but also I want it to be the best Tank and Best Healer and one shot to other players at the same time:))) WRONG!!!

    I think:
    if I want to play Healer I need to play Templar Or Warden
    If I want to play DPS it should be NB or Sorcerer
    If I want to play Tank it Should be DK or Necro...

    And of course, templar should be the best to heal and heal more than other classes
    And of course, Sorcerer and NB should be the Best DPS classes other than the DK, Warden, Templar, and necro
    And of course, DK should be the Best Tank other than Sorcerer and Templar ETC...

    This is philosophically problematic, because the functionality of skills allows certain classes to completely ignore those boundaries, and conceptually these roles, especially tanking and healing, bleed into each other considerably. The concept of the elder scrolls series also banks on the idea that you can create conceptually divergent thematic concepts of your character that doesn't fundamentally slot them into a particular role. I know that the tank/dps/healer divisions are a prevalent theme, but pragmatically creating "best of" divisions doesn't work for classes because certain roles are fundamentally more effective in certain metas.

    Eg if the meta is healing, and I'm not a templar or a warden by your rules, then I am immediately disadvantaged, and then it follows that every player should be playing a templar or a warden in order to optimize, and then that kills the prevalence of class diversity in the open world, particularly in pvp.

    Other wise we cant expect them to make the BALANCED classes and skills
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • CambionDaemon
    CambionDaemon
    ✭✭✭
    But the game was designed that way to begin with.

    DK - Tank
    Templar - Healer
    Sorcerer - Ranged DPS
    Nightblade - Melee DPS

    It is only because of people screaming my class should be this/that, and the I want Stamina class skills that they are (at least looks like) trying to change everything and appease everyone (you can't).

    Classes should be different and be better at things than others, otherwise it becomes boring (Sorcerer = blue skills/Nightblade = red skills). And class skills should be more powerful than general skills (which should be there to fill in a gap for missing class skill).

    If they have a plan for the end result then they should explain what that plan is, not change skills for no reason (Power Surge springs to mind).

    Bottom line is that they need to redesign the original four classes, as the game has 'evolved' since their conception.

    The removal of Champion Points would be the best option, but with what the can replace it with (I liked Veteran Ranks) I do not know.
    Edited by CambionDaemon on August 10, 2019 3:04AM
  • Iron_Blurr
    Iron_Blurr
    ✭✭✭
    Every class should be able to fufill every role in their own unique way. That allows for REAL diversity. If dk were the only viable class for tanks, there would be no diversity. Tanks would be synonymous with dk. I would prefer every class to have the minimum tools necessary to fulfil their role so people can experiment with multiple roles on what existing toons they have. I dont mind there being a BEST option for each role so long as there are other options for added diversity to the game.
    And before people say you cant do this or that on non meta classes i have cleared all content in the game on a magden dps and on my nightblade tank.
    When you get rid of the unfun limiting factors between classes (like back when only dk could chain enemies) what you have left is player skill to separate the good players from the bad.

    People act like having 1 designated class for each role is "diversity" when in reality it's just limiting.
    Edited by Iron_Blurr on August 11, 2019 6:38AM
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    If I couldn't play my magDK as dps I would quit, it's all I play, it's all I enjoy.

    This post is detestable.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iron_Blurr wrote: »
    Every class should be able to fufill every role in their own unique way. That allows for REAL diversity. If dk were the only viable class for tanks, there would be no diversity. Tanks would be synonymous with dk. I would prefer every class to have the minimum tools necessary to fulfil their role so people can experiment with multiple roles on what existing toons they have. I dont mind there being a BEST option for each role so long as there are other options for added diversity to the game.
    And before people say you cant do this or that on non meta classes i have cleared all content in the game on a magden dps and on my nightblade tank.
    When you get rid of the unfun limiting factors between classes (like back when only dk could chain enemies) what you have left is player skill to separate the good players from the bad.

    People act like having 1 designated class for each role is "diversity" when in reality it's just limiting.

    and than everybody cries for nerfs and balance
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheHsN wrote: »
    Iron_Blurr wrote: »
    Every class should be able to fufill every role in their own unique way. That allows for REAL diversity. If dk were the only viable class for tanks, there would be no diversity. Tanks would be synonymous with dk. I would prefer every class to have the minimum tools necessary to fulfil their role so people can experiment with multiple roles on what existing toons they have. I dont mind there being a BEST option for each role so long as there are other options for added diversity to the game.
    And before people say you cant do this or that on non meta classes i have cleared all content in the game on a magden dps and on my nightblade tank.
    When you get rid of the unfun limiting factors between classes (like back when only dk could chain enemies) what you have left is player skill to separate the good players from the bad.

    People act like having 1 designated class for each role is "diversity" when in reality it's just limiting.

    and then everybody cries for nerfs and balance
    why my Magicka DK does not hit like sorc, why my Magicka DK don't have mobility like NB, why my Magicka DK don't have self heal like Templar.
    PS: I have a main MG DK for PVP

    ZOS never can make the balance this game as the way you think... YES it is the best diversity but it is the worst result to be able to play


    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • Ash_In_My_Sujamma
    Ash_In_My_Sujamma
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Couldn't agree more with the op. I would also add that zos, and every zos, should have their own opinions about what's best for their game (I am talking about their game as a game not their game as a profit) and stop trying to cater to every damn player in the world. Of course a solid plan and vision of what the game was, is and is going to be is required in order to be confident and adamant about your ideas compared to others and I am not sure that this is the case here.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Couldn't agree more with the op. I would also add that zos, and every zos, should have their own opinions about what's best for their game (I am talking about their game as a game not their game as a profit) and stop trying to cater to every damn player in the world. Of course a solid plan and vision of what the game was, is and is going to be is required in order to be confident and adamant about your ideas compared to others and I am not sure that this is the case here.

    I agree, people cry about the silliest things, even before trying them out.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
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