MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Zevrro wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    Soul Harvest. The cost of meteor is way too high in my opinion when nightblade has such a cheap ultimate available that gives 20% more damage and major defile. The fear combo with meteor is really nice but it takes a long time to charge up and can be hard to use properly in lag.

    I use soul harvest currently on live but I’m on xbox so the new patch hasn’t dropped yet. Based on my experience with cast time abilities however they are usually not that great. So while soul harvest is cheaper with better utility, if you can never land it due to it being unreliable now meteor may be the better option because it will always land 100% of the time. While any good player will probably be able to reduce soul harvest into a useless skill. I’m curious as to how reliable soul harvest is in the new patch.

    Well it's not capable of being interru
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    My combo is different. Build stacks and then:

    Cloak + Lotus Fan + Mass Hysteria + Soul Harvest + Merciless

    I think I might be okay without animation cancel SH because they are CCed and I have time. Still don't like it...
    Any decent player will cc break + dodge the bow proc if you go like that. If you soulharvest into fear, and then use bow proc its almost a guaranteed hit. I always fight in melee range even with destro resto so the soulharvest isn't that obvious to see coming. Def agree with @HaruKamui on this.

    Ahh someone who knows what's up. Kudos! I've done it on a lot of different people who are definitely not noobs and it lands. It's the magblade bread and butter and I question anyone who dont do it. (lol jk. kinda)

    And also, definitely don't forget the light attack weaves because it deals so much additional damage, especially when running infused shock/flame enchant.
    Edited by HaruKamui on August 21, 2019 5:54PM
    A trickster; both light and dark, heroic and villainous, foolish and wise.

    EP Hit Squad
    Haru Kamui - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade
    Haru Homura - Breton Magicka Templar
    Haru Yuuto - Dunmer Stamina Sorcerer

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  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    My combo is different. Build stacks and then:

    Cloak + Lotus Fan + Mass Hysteria + Soul Harvest + Spectral Bow

    I think I might be okay without animation cancel SH because they are CCed and I have time. Still don't like it...

    With the cast delay on soul harvest, decent players will surely dodge the soul harvest and the bow on that rotation. I'm also not a fan of gap closers but to each their own on that topic.
    A trickster; both light and dark, heroic and villainous, foolish and wise.

    EP Hit Squad
    Haru Kamui - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade
    Haru Homura - Breton Magicka Templar
    Haru Yuuto - Dunmer Stamina Sorcerer

    #GiveMagbladesSnareRemoval <--- Getting some form of this in Elsweyr, sweet!
  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    Rianai wrote: »
    You can not guarantee a hit with Soul Harvest nor Merciless after fear, unless cc breaks bugs out for your enemy or he is reacting slow/out of stam. And after seeing players literally walk out of my Soul Harvest multiple times, i switched to Meteor. Not as good as it once was, but at least it always does something when i press that button. For 1vs1 SH is probably still better, because you can just keep trying until it goes off, but for outnumbered play, cast times are absolutely awful.
    Yea its not always a guaranteed hit, but most of the time it works and it is the most reliable way to secure a bow proc hit.

    I feel you as far as meteor goes, although I only like using it when I have bloodspawn on. Furthermore I have had it way too many times where I get stunned after casting meteor before I can get my fear off, ruining the combo. Or the person streaks out of range before I fear, etc. It's not ideal either way.
    Edited by Koensol on August 21, 2019 5:58PM
  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    Against burst heal builds and magplar, it’s typically the end for me. Find more success using the bow as the opener vs those types otherwise they don’t tend to die. If I can Soul harvest > bow- they are typically noobs or bad.

    Why though? Soul Harvest into hysteria into bow is a sure hit on the bow if the ping isn't too high. The additional 20% damage on the bow is really good. I really have no problems with magplars... Hardest to fight are magdks and stamwardens imo.

    Typically because it saves the CC for later in the combo. Fear>SH is fine but then the bow is very unlikely to land verse anyone decent. I don’t use shadowy to land SH outright easily so it’s typical for me to have to CC before the SH, especially true for mobile targets. And if I try that vs a plar or burst heal type- they can heal thru easily at the end of the combo.

    This will also be more true for next patch where SH will need the Pre-CC to land vs a mud crab.

    But if I open with a bow outta no where, they typically don’t expect it because they are used to it after the normal SH>Bow proc. So that lands more often. Also since it’s not a one shot DMG, they don’t go super defensive, then Fear>SH/Spammable cleans it up.
  • Metemsycosis
    Metemsycosis
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    In Bgs fear is broken op. You'll be able to land whatever you need to if you use fear.

    Also I think to put massive damage into an opponent and then cc them and finish is the easiest/best route. Im guessing the delay is messin up lotus-tether/harvest combos. Sad really
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  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Zevrro wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    Soul Harvest. The cost of meteor is way too high in my opinion when nightblade has such a cheap ultimate available that gives 20% more damage and major defile. The fear combo with meteor is really nice but it takes a long time to charge up and can be hard to use properly in lag.

    I use soul harvest currently on live but I’m on xbox so the new patch hasn’t dropped yet. Based on my experience with cast time abilities however they are usually not that great. So while soul harvest is cheaper with better utility, if you can never land it due to it being unreliable now meteor may be the better option because it will always land 100% of the time. While any good player will probably be able to reduce soul harvest into a useless skill. I’m curious as to how reliable soul harvest is in the new patch.

    Well it's not capable of being interru
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    My combo is different. Build stacks and then:

    Cloak + Lotus Fan + Mass Hysteria + Soul Harvest + Merciless

    I think I might be okay without animation cancel SH because they are CCed and I have time. Still don't like it...
    Any decent player will cc break + dodge the bow proc if you go like that. If you soulharvest into fear, and then use bow proc its almost a guaranteed hit. I always fight in melee range even with destro resto so the soulharvest isn't that obvious to see coming. Def agree with @HaruKamui on this.

    Ahh someone who knows what's up. Kudos! I've done it on a lot of different people who are definitely not noobs and it lands. It's the magblade bread and butter and I question anyone who dont do it. (lol jk. kinda)

    And also, definitely don't forget the light attack weaves because it deals so much additional damage, especially when running infused shock/flame enchant.

    On the old patch my combo varies depending on who I fight. When I fight lesser experienced players my combo is soul harvest, fear into bow proc because they are usually slow to cc break or they will break cc but not expect the follow up from the bow. When I fight elite level players my combo is fear into soul harvest then apply pressure with spammable weaves and attempt to sneak the bow in somewhere before the 6 second buffs wear off, Or use fear into soul harvest as my finisher.

    I’ll go into detail into why I do this. The spectral bow has a minimum travel time meaning if you CC before using the bow really expierenced players will always break CC and avoid the bow proc by either dodging or blocking the bow. There is no way to reliably land a bow after a CC because of the delay of the bow proc.

    What I’m worried about in the new patch is now soul harvest has a cast time meaning not only can you not land the bow after fear you can’t land soul harvest either. You basically need for your opponent to get stuck in a laggy CC break to land an ability with a cast time or a minimum travel time. That’s what has me thinking about using meteor because I can make sure it lands.
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Zevrro wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    Soul Harvest. The cost of meteor is way too high in my opinion when nightblade has such a cheap ultimate available that gives 20% more damage and major defile. The fear combo with meteor is really nice but it takes a long time to charge up and can be hard to use properly in lag.

    I use soul harvest currently on live but I’m on xbox so the new patch hasn’t dropped yet. Based on my experience with cast time abilities however they are usually not that great. So while soul harvest is cheaper with better utility, if you can never land it due to it being unreliable now meteor may be the better option because it will always land 100% of the time. While any good player will probably be able to reduce soul harvest into a useless skill. I’m curious as to how reliable soul harvest is in the new patch.

    Well it's not capable of being interru
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    My combo is different. Build stacks and then:

    Cloak + Lotus Fan + Mass Hysteria + Soul Harvest + Merciless

    I think I might be okay without animation cancel SH because they are CCed and I have time. Still don't like it...
    Any decent player will cc break + dodge the bow proc if you go like that. If you soulharvest into fear, and then use bow proc its almost a guaranteed hit. I always fight in melee range even with destro resto so the soulharvest isn't that obvious to see coming. Def agree with @HaruKamui on this.

    My preferred style works though - many "decent players" can attest to that. My trick?

    I don't blow my load right away...

    I anticipate the dodge roll and if I can have a second of patience I get the hit and it will still be 20% empowered by SH and Lotus Fan (Minor Vulnerability).

    I could post some video but I'm not here to brag, just being friendly by saying that there isn't one way to do it.
    Edited by brandonv516 on August 21, 2019 9:17PM
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    The way my burst goes, in a perfect world is, meteor>lotus>fear>bow

    I like meteor more in cyro. If i was dueling oraybe even bgs, I don't run many, I would probably still use soul harvest. But they remove the aoe cap from meteor so it's really good vs groups. There has been time I have pulled more than I can chew into a bottle neck then land a meteor with a big fear.
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Zevrro wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    Soul Harvest. The cost of meteor is way too high in my opinion when nightblade has such a cheap ultimate available that gives 20% more damage and major defile. The fear combo with meteor is really nice but it takes a long time to charge up and can be hard to use properly in lag.

    I use soul harvest currently on live but I’m on xbox so the new patch hasn’t dropped yet. Based on my experience with cast time abilities however they are usually not that great. So while soul harvest is cheaper with better utility, if you can never land it due to it being unreliable now meteor may be the better option because it will always land 100% of the time. While any good player will probably be able to reduce soul harvest into a useless skill. I’m curious as to how reliable soul harvest is in the new patch.

    Well it's not capable of being interru
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    My combo is different. Build stacks and then:

    Cloak + Lotus Fan + Mass Hysteria + Soul Harvest + Merciless

    I think I might be okay without animation cancel SH because they are CCed and I have time. Still don't like it...
    Any decent player will cc break + dodge the bow proc if you go like that. If you soulharvest into fear, and then use bow proc its almost a guaranteed hit. I always fight in melee range even with destro resto so the soulharvest isn't that obvious to see coming. Def agree with @HaruKamui on this.

    Ahh someone who knows what's up. Kudos! I've done it on a lot of different people who are definitely not noobs and it lands. It's the magblade bread and butter and I question anyone who dont do it. (lol jk. kinda)

    And also, definitely don't forget the light attack weaves because it deals so much additional damage, especially when running infused shock/flame enchant.

    On the old patch my combo varies depending on who I fight. When I fight lesser experienced players my combo is soul harvest, fear into bow proc because they are usually slow to cc break or they will break cc but not expect the follow up from the bow. When I fight elite level players my combo is fear into soul harvest then apply pressure with spammable weaves and attempt to sneak the bow in somewhere before the 6 second buffs wear off, Or use fear into soul harvest as my finisher.

    I’ll go into detail into why I do this. The spectral bow has a minimum travel time meaning if you CC before using the bow really expierenced players will always break CC and avoid the bow proc by either dodging or blocking the bow. There is no way to reliably land a bow after a CC because of the delay of the bow proc.

    What I’m worried about in the new patch is now soul harvest has a cast time meaning not only can you not land the bow after fear you can’t land soul harvest either. You basically need for your opponent to get stuck in a laggy CC break to land an ability with a cast time or a minimum travel time. That’s what has me thinking about using meteor because I can make sure it lands.

    This is true the full on combo feels very clunky imo and the soul harvest B4 or after fear is kinda pointless to me as of now. No matter how you look at it you are only landing one of the hits. I can't tell you how many times I animation canceled my soul harvest trying to get like a last hit roll Dodge cancel or just trying to land that quick bow.
  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Zevrro wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    Soul Harvest. The cost of meteor is way too high in my opinion when nightblade has such a cheap ultimate available that gives 20% more damage and major defile. The fear combo with meteor is really nice but it takes a long time to charge up and can be hard to use properly in lag.

    I use soul harvest currently on live but I’m on xbox so the new patch hasn’t dropped yet. Based on my experience with cast time abilities however they are usually not that great. So while soul harvest is cheaper with better utility, if you can never land it due to it being unreliable now meteor may be the better option because it will always land 100% of the time. While any good player will probably be able to reduce soul harvest into a useless skill. I’m curious as to how reliable soul harvest is in the new patch.

    Well it's not capable of being interru
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    My combo is different. Build stacks and then:

    Cloak + Lotus Fan + Mass Hysteria + Soul Harvest + Merciless

    I think I might be okay without animation cancel SH because they are CCed and I have time. Still don't like it...
    Any decent player will cc break + dodge the bow proc if you go like that. If you soulharvest into fear, and then use bow proc its almost a guaranteed hit. I always fight in melee range even with destro resto so the soulharvest isn't that obvious to see coming. Def agree with @HaruKamui on this.

    My preferred style works though - many "decent players" can attest to that. My trick?

    I don't blow my load right away...

    I anticipate the dodge roll and if I can have a second of patience I get the hit and it will still be 20% empowered by SH and Lotus Fan (Minor Vulnerability).

    I could post some video but I'm not here to brag, just being friendly by saying that there isn't one way to do it.

    Yea the main issue I have with the delay is vs the burst heal types. Many a magplar has forced me to switch that combo around. But also true, there isn’t just one way to do it and succeed.
  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
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    Insco851 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    Against burst heal builds and magplar, it’s typically the end for me. Find more success using the bow as the opener vs those types otherwise they don’t tend to die. If I can Soul harvest > bow- they are typically noobs or bad.

    Why though? Soul Harvest into hysteria into bow is a sure hit on the bow if the ping isn't too high. The additional 20% damage on the bow is really good. I really have no problems with magplars... Hardest to fight are magdks and stamwardens imo.

    Typically because it saves the CC for later in the combo. Fear>SH is fine but then the bow is very unlikely to land verse anyone decent. I don’t use shadowy to land SH outright easily so it’s typical for me to have to CC before the SH, especially true for mobile targets. And if I try that vs a plar or burst heal type- they can heal thru easily at the end of the combo.

    This will also be more true for next patch where SH will need the Pre-CC to land vs a mud crab.

    But if I open with a bow outta no where, they typically don’t expect it because they are used to it after the normal SH>Bow proc. So that lands more often. Also since it’s not a one shot DMG, they don’t go super defensive, then Fear>SH/Spammable cleans it up.

    I dunno, im the other way around completely... I also use the bow out of nowhere too but it's usually against those who "aren't decent" as you say. Because I wont need the full damage combo to kill them. Soul harvest first is also very useful against those "high burst healers" you keep having trouble with because your opening hit has a major defile. Their heals wont hit as hard, and if they spend their GCD purging, that's more damage (buffed by the 20% additional damage from soul harvest) they arent healing.

    And I dunno if we have vastly different pings or experiences but I keep saying that hysteria into bow has a very high probability of landing and you keep saying that it won't work against anyone decent. But it does for me, consistently too... And i'm sure im not just fighting potatoes.

    It's actually the other way around more so this patch because hysteria into soul harvest now has a cast time and it's very probable now that those "decent" people will be able to dodge it.

    But anyway this isn't a nightblade mechanics thread so i probably wont drag this conversation out any longer. Back to the theorycrafting!!
    Edited by HaruKamui on August 22, 2019 2:48AM
    A trickster; both light and dark, heroic and villainous, foolish and wise.

    EP Hit Squad
    Haru Kamui - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade
    Haru Homura - Breton Magicka Templar
    Haru Yuuto - Dunmer Stamina Sorcerer

    #GiveMagbladesSnareRemoval <--- Getting some form of this in Elsweyr, sweet!
  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Zevrro wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    Soul Harvest. The cost of meteor is way too high in my opinion when nightblade has such a cheap ultimate available that gives 20% more damage and major defile. The fear combo with meteor is really nice but it takes a long time to charge up and can be hard to use properly in lag.

    I use soul harvest currently on live but I’m on xbox so the new patch hasn’t dropped yet. Based on my experience with cast time abilities however they are usually not that great. So while soul harvest is cheaper with better utility, if you can never land it due to it being unreliable now meteor may be the better option because it will always land 100% of the time. While any good player will probably be able to reduce soul harvest into a useless skill. I’m curious as to how reliable soul harvest is in the new patch.

    Well it's not capable of being interru
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    My combo is different. Build stacks and then:

    Cloak + Lotus Fan + Mass Hysteria + Soul Harvest + Merciless

    I think I might be okay without animation cancel SH because they are CCed and I have time. Still don't like it...
    Any decent player will cc break + dodge the bow proc if you go like that. If you soulharvest into fear, and then use bow proc its almost a guaranteed hit. I always fight in melee range even with destro resto so the soulharvest isn't that obvious to see coming. Def agree with @HaruKamui on this.

    My preferred style works though - many "decent players" can attest to that. My trick?

    I don't blow my load right away...

    I anticipate the dodge roll and if I can have a second of patience I get the hit and it will still be 20% empowered by SH and Lotus Fan (Minor Vulnerability).

    I could post some video but I'm not here to brag, just being friendly by saying that there isn't one way to do it.
    It is easier to hit a bow proc after fear than a soul harvest after fear, as the latter now has a dumb cast time and as they reduced the minimum travel time for merciless some time ago. I'm not saying there are no other ways, but from what I've seen this is the most reliable way if you want to quickly burst someone without giving them a chance to recover (when using soul harvest). I'm usually whittling people down with la + spammable and dots before I burst, and when they reach about 70% hp, then go in to try for the finish.

    Of course your principle remains. Not blowing everything at once and saving your bow works very well against people who dodge often and quickly, but if you do that you run into the risk of someone healing to full in the time you wait. It is usually my plan B.
  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
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    Koensol wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    Zevrro wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    Soul Harvest. The cost of meteor is way too high in my opinion when nightblade has such a cheap ultimate available that gives 20% more damage and major defile. The fear combo with meteor is really nice but it takes a long time to charge up and can be hard to use properly in lag.

    I use soul harvest currently on live but I’m on xbox so the new patch hasn’t dropped yet. Based on my experience with cast time abilities however they are usually not that great. So while soul harvest is cheaper with better utility, if you can never land it due to it being unreliable now meteor may be the better option because it will always land 100% of the time. While any good player will probably be able to reduce soul harvest into a useless skill. I’m curious as to how reliable soul harvest is in the new patch.

    Well it's not capable of being interru
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    My combo is different. Build stacks and then:

    Cloak + Lotus Fan + Mass Hysteria + Soul Harvest + Merciless

    I think I might be okay without animation cancel SH because they are CCed and I have time. Still don't like it...
    Any decent player will cc break + dodge the bow proc if you go like that. If you soulharvest into fear, and then use bow proc its almost a guaranteed hit. I always fight in melee range even with destro resto so the soulharvest isn't that obvious to see coming. Def agree with @HaruKamui on this.

    My preferred style works though - many "decent players" can attest to that. My trick?

    I don't blow my load right away...

    I anticipate the dodge roll and if I can have a second of patience I get the hit and it will still be 20% empowered by SH and Lotus Fan (Minor Vulnerability).

    I could post some video but I'm not here to brag, just being friendly by saying that there isn't one way to do it.
    It is easier to hit a bow proc after fear than a soul harvest after fear, as the latter now has a dumb cast time and as they reduced the minimum travel time for merciless some time ago. I'm not saying there are no other ways, but from what I've seen this is the most reliable way if you want to quickly burst someone without giving them a chance to recover (when using soul harvest). I'm usually whittling people down with la + spammable and dots before I burst, and when they reach about 70% hp, then go in to try for the finish.

    Of course your principle remains. Not blowing everything at once and saving your bow works very well against people who dodge often and quickly, but if you do that you run into the risk of someone healing to full in the time you wait. It is usually my plan B.

    That’s exactly how i play as well. With you on this one 100%
    A trickster; both light and dark, heroic and villainous, foolish and wise.

    EP Hit Squad
    Haru Kamui - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade
    Haru Homura - Breton Magicka Templar
    Haru Yuuto - Dunmer Stamina Sorcerer

    #GiveMagbladesSnareRemoval <--- Getting some form of this in Elsweyr, sweet!
  • Jeezye
    Jeezye
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I felt the best way to sneak in the casttime soul harvest is actually from cloak. As you have full control of the timing you essentially get rid of the cast time and the enemy is unlikely to avoid it. I dont like playing with cloak but regarding the current meta its just waaay to efficient.
  • zammo
    zammo
    ✭✭✭
    Not a snowball in hells chance am I using an ult with cast time. Meteor front, Consuming Darkness back. I know it has it's own CC, but (in melee range) Meteor > Fear > Assassin's Will lines up nice. Also, I never used Pirate Skeleton, so never really appreciated what major protection gives. With Consuming Darkness, hots and Merciless stacks up, you're tanky af.
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeezye wrote: »
    I felt the best way to sneak in the casttime soul harvest is actually from cloak. As you have full control of the timing you essentially get rid of the cast time and the enemy is unlikely to avoid it. I dont like playing with cloak but regarding the current meta its just waaay to efficient.

    I'm starting to lean towards shadowy being the only form of cloak this patch. I loved dark cloak last patch with pirate and mercy stacks, just damn Tanky. Now with all these single target dots flying everywhere I think shadowy is bis to mitigate the damage. It will also lead to a more reliable soul harvest like you suggest than the dark cloak burst.

    Even the heals from dark cloak are starting to seem a little pointless. With shadowy I don't see any reason to run more than brp healing ward and rapid Regen.

    I'm starting to feel the more I'm in cyro that the dot meta has changed the meta for magnb back into shadowy disguise
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeezye wrote: »
    I felt the best way to sneak in the casttime soul harvest is actually from cloak. As you have full control of the timing you essentially get rid of the cast time and the enemy is unlikely to avoid it. I dont like playing with cloak but regarding the current meta its just waaay to efficient.

    I'm starting to lean towards shadowy being the only form of cloak this patch. I loved dark cloak last patch with pirate and mercy stacks, just damn Tanky. Now with all these single target dots flying everywhere I think shadowy is bis to mitigate the damage. It will also lead to a more reliable soul harvest like you suggest than the dark cloak burst.

    Even the heals from dark cloak are starting to seem a little pointless. With shadowy I don't see any reason to run more than brp healing ward and rapid Regen.

    I'm starting to feel the more I'm in cyro that the dot meta has changed the meta for magnb back into shadowy disguise

    Agreed, but you’ll notice a huge loss in survivability from missing minor protection. That plus merciless stacks seem to drop for no reason.

    I’ve moved temporal guard as my back bar Ult for a little more tankiness on my defensive bar. Shield while blocking and minor protection help.

    If you’re 1vX Disguise is definitely better. In a small (organized) or large scale setting I still think dark cloak is better.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 22, 2019 12:56PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Insco851
    Insco851
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeezye wrote: »
    I felt the best way to sneak in the casttime soul harvest is actually from cloak. As you have full control of the timing you essentially get rid of the cast time and the enemy is unlikely to avoid it. I dont like playing with cloak but regarding the current meta its just waaay to efficient.

    This has always been true. And more so for scale breaker. Shadowy+RR/HW def looks like the way to go over dark cloak.
  • Insco851
    Insco851
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    HaruKamui wrote: »
    What ultimate is everyone on PC using for magblade? I was thinking I may have to use meteor because of the cast time to soul harvest, and soul tether. It feels like meteor may be the only ultimate that you will be able to land unblocked due to fear.

    IMO soul harvest is the opener because of the damage buff and defile and is cheap enough that it's okay if it's blocked sometimes. Most of the time the combo goes soul harvest -> hysteria -> spectral bow with LA weaves.

    after a short adjustment period i don't think we're as affected as much because of the cast time since it's the opener. I can see dawnbreaker as a skill used within a kill combo being harder to use though on 2h builds because the dizzy swing into dawnbreaker became way less reliable

    Against burst heal builds and magplar, it’s typically the end for me. Find more success using the bow as the opener vs those types otherwise they don’t tend to die. If I can Soul harvest > bow- they are typically noobs or bad.

    Why though? Soul Harvest into hysteria into bow is a sure hit on the bow if the ping isn't too high. The additional 20% damage on the bow is really good. I really have no problems with magplars... Hardest to fight are magdks and stamwardens imo.

    Typically because it saves the CC for later in the combo. Fear>SH is fine but then the bow is very unlikely to land verse anyone decent. I don’t use shadowy to land SH outright easily so it’s typical for me to have to CC before the SH, especially true for mobile targets. And if I try that vs a plar or burst heal type- they can heal thru easily at the end of the combo.

    This will also be more true for next patch where SH will need the Pre-CC to land vs a mud crab.

    But if I open with a bow outta no where, they typically don’t expect it because they are used to it after the normal SH>Bow proc. So that lands more often. Also since it’s not a one shot DMG, they don’t go super defensive, then Fear>SH/Spammable cleans it up.

    I dunno, im the other way around completely... I also use the bow out of nowhere too but it's usually against those who "aren't decent" as you say. Because I wont need the full damage combo to kill them. Soul harvest first is also very useful against those "high burst healers" you keep having trouble with because your opening hit has a major defile. Their heals wont hit as hard, and if they spend their GCD purging, that's more damage (buffed by the 20% additional damage from soul harvest) they arent healing.

    And I dunno if we have vastly different pings or experiences but I keep saying that hysteria into bow has a very high probability of landing and you keep saying that it won't work against anyone decent. But it does for me, consistently too... And i'm sure im not just fighting potatoes.

    It's actually the other way around more so this patch because hysteria into soul harvest now has a cast time and it's very probable now that those "decent" people will be able to dodge it.

    But anyway this isn't a nightblade mechanics thread so i probably wont drag this conversation out any longer. Back to the theorycrafting!!

    Just to clarify:

    My normal combo opens with fear>SH. This means you can’t use the bow insta-after because break free/dodge roll is quicker than the travel time. (Normally)

    SH>Fear and then bow is fine as you’ve stated. But again I’ve been a dark cloak user so getting SH to land cleanly isn’t the easiest so it’s normally Fear>SH for me. Shadowy in scalebreaker should help that.

    If I run my normal rotation vs a plar- they break free and spam heal/block the bow. So in return I flip it, save the CC for later in the combo. They dead.

    I’m sure everyone here has had success, just in different ways.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just tried out a new setup for magblade healing in BGs with a lot of success. You just have to think outside the box to do well this patch I think.

    I don’t know if magblade dps is the same, but I’d try and experiment more to stay ahead of the curve.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 22, 2019 3:40PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Jeezye
    Jeezye
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeezye wrote: »
    I felt the best way to sneak in the casttime soul harvest is actually from cloak. As you have full control of the timing you essentially get rid of the cast time and the enemy is unlikely to avoid it. I dont like playing with cloak but regarding the current meta its just waaay to efficient.

    I'm starting to lean towards shadowy being the only form of cloak this patch. I loved dark cloak last patch with pirate and mercy stacks, just damn Tanky. Now with all these single target dots flying everywhere I think shadowy is bis to mitigate the damage. It will also lead to a more reliable soul harvest like you suggest than the dark cloak burst.

    Even the heals from dark cloak are starting to seem a little pointless. With shadowy I don't see any reason to run more than brp healing ward and rapid Regen.

    I'm starting to feel the more I'm in cyro that the dot meta has changed the meta for magnb back into shadowy disguise

    Actually I'm also really struggeling to justify dark cloak on the bar, with 3,4k cost, a pretty short duration for minor protection, and a miniorcre healing that is by far subpar to mutagen/ rapid regen which also cost less..

    Idk, I always enjoyed the tanky playstyle, ~30k hp was giving dark cloak decent heals and is easy to reach, but whats the point if other generic skills are just flat out better - especially disguise. Man they really killed my playstyle for good
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeezye wrote: »
    Jeezye wrote: »
    I felt the best way to sneak in the casttime soul harvest is actually from cloak. As you have full control of the timing you essentially get rid of the cast time and the enemy is unlikely to avoid it. I dont like playing with cloak but regarding the current meta its just waaay to efficient.

    I'm starting to lean towards shadowy being the only form of cloak this patch. I loved dark cloak last patch with pirate and mercy stacks, just damn Tanky. Now with all these single target dots flying everywhere I think shadowy is bis to mitigate the damage. It will also lead to a more reliable soul harvest like you suggest than the dark cloak burst.

    Even the heals from dark cloak are starting to seem a little pointless. With shadowy I don't see any reason to run more than brp healing ward and rapid Regen.

    I'm starting to feel the more I'm in cyro that the dot meta has changed the meta for magnb back into shadowy disguise

    Actually I'm also really struggeling to justify dark cloak on the bar, with 3,4k cost, a pretty short duration for minor protection, and a miniorcre healing that is by far subpar to mutagen/ rapid regen which also cost less..

    Idk, I always enjoyed the tanky playstyle, ~30k hp was giving dark cloak decent heals and is easy to reach, but whats the point if other generic skills are just flat out better - especially disguise. Man they really killed my playstyle for good

    It can still be decent, at least from my no-CP experience. Difference is moreso that you can survive easily vs 1 opponent but it’s hard vs two. If you’re solo yea, go Disguise.

    In BGs it’s a crap shoot unless you premade. In a premade I run dark cloak, if I solo queue I run Disguise.

    Reducing mag tankiness made coordination too important, so running dark cloak isn’t worth it because you can get trash team mates.

    Either way, try harness magicka or ward. Hot stacking can work but you have to back it up with a shield or get bursted by health desyncs.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 22, 2019 7:01PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeezye wrote: »
    Jeezye wrote: »
    I felt the best way to sneak in the casttime soul harvest is actually from cloak. As you have full control of the timing you essentially get rid of the cast time and the enemy is unlikely to avoid it. I dont like playing with cloak but regarding the current meta its just waaay to efficient.

    I'm starting to lean towards shadowy being the only form of cloak this patch. I loved dark cloak last patch with pirate and mercy stacks, just damn Tanky. Now with all these single target dots flying everywhere I think shadowy is bis to mitigate the damage. It will also lead to a more reliable soul harvest like you suggest than the dark cloak burst.

    Even the heals from dark cloak are starting to seem a little pointless. With shadowy I don't see any reason to run more than brp healing ward and rapid Regen.

    I'm starting to feel the more I'm in cyro that the dot meta has changed the meta for magnb back into shadowy disguise

    Actually I'm also really struggeling to justify dark cloak on the bar, with 3,4k cost, a pretty short duration for minor protection, and a miniorcre healing that is by far subpar to mutagen/ rapid regen which also cost less..

    Idk, I always enjoyed the tanky playstyle, ~30k hp was giving dark cloak decent heals and is easy to reach, but whats the point if other generic skills are just flat out better - especially disguise. Man they really killed my playstyle for good

    I feel ya, It took me a while to finally let heavy armor die. My hot based lizard wizard back then in heavy was dope, and for a brief time it was back in a light armor variation last patch. I still have a setup tweaked for this patch it's just I feel I'm thinking too narrow. I almost won't let myself give shadowy a chance outside of gank builds, however I think that is about to change.
  • Mrsinister2
    Mrsinister2
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    Anyone know if funnel health will proc curse eater since Its a heal every 2 seconds?

    I think rally and fw use to proc it because of that but I'm not sure.
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Mrsinister2 I haven't used curse eater but it should it is a single target damage and single target heal.

    Question is though, why funnel? Why not swallow soul?
  • Mrsinister2
    Mrsinister2
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Mrsinister2 I haven't used curse eater but it should it is a single target damage and single target heal.

    Question is though, why funnel? Why not swallow soul?

    I thought it would be a better heal but since it's scaling off damage and it does no damage I'm starting to think I chose wrong here
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone know if funnel health will proc curse eater since Its a heal every 2 seconds?

    I think rally and fw use to proc it because of that but I'm not sure.

    Last I checked it does, and curse eater also worked with leeching strikes and lifesteal. At least last patch...
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Mrsinister2 I haven't used curse eater but it should it is a single target damage and single target heal.

    Question is though, why funnel? Why not swallow soul?

    I thought it would be a better heal but since it's scaling off damage and it does no damage I'm starting to think I chose wrong here

    Yea, I honestly think funnel health is the worst ability in the game. You’ll get about a 3k tooltip in no-CP, then people tank up and there’s battle spirit. When I tried it as a healer it ticks for maybe 500, on a dps with pen you might get 700 if you’re lucky.

    I’m not sure why it’s been left so bad in the class audit. Maybe it has uses in pve without battle spirit and full penetration, IDK, but I don’t think so.

    The ability’s so bad that most people when they try to NB heal think the class sucks at it because they use it assuming it’s part of the class toolkit. Even in pve NB healing works by not using it.

    The only thing good about it is if the initial hit crits all the hot ticks will crit, but really who cares on a spammable.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 23, 2019 1:18AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Mrsinister2
    Mrsinister2
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kadoin wrote: »
    Anyone know if funnel health will proc curse eater since Its a heal every 2 seconds?

    I think rally and fw use to proc it because of that but I'm not sure.

    Last I checked it does, and curse eater also worked with leeching strikes and lifesteal. At least last patch...
    Iskiab wrote: »
    @Mrsinister2 I haven't used curse eater but it should it is a single target damage and single target heal.

    Question is though, why funnel? Why not swallow soul?

    I thought it would be a better heal but since it's scaling off damage and it does no damage I'm starting to think I chose wrong here

    Yea, I honestly think funnel health is the worst ability in the game. You’ll get about a 3k tooltip in no-CP, then people tank up and there’s battle spirit. When I tried it as a healer it ticks for maybe 500, on a dps with pen you might get 700 if you’re lucky.

    I’m not sure why it’s been left so bad in the class audit. Maybe it has uses in pve without battle spirit and full penetration, IDK, but I don’t think so.

    The ability’s so bad that most people when they try to NB heal think the class sucks at it because they use it assuming it’s part of the class toolkit. Even in pve NB healing works by not using it.

    The only thing good about it is if the initial hit crits all the hot ticks will crit, but really who cares on a spammable.

    Yea this is exactly what I experienced with it tonight the hot is really bad.

    They should have moved the minor vitality to it after removing it from swallow soul.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kadoin wrote: »
    Anyone know if funnel health will proc curse eater since Its a heal every 2 seconds?

    I think rally and fw use to proc it because of that but I'm not sure.

    Last I checked it does, and curse eater also worked with leeching strikes and lifesteal. At least last patch...
    Iskiab wrote: »
    @Mrsinister2 I haven't used curse eater but it should it is a single target damage and single target heal.

    Question is though, why funnel? Why not swallow soul?

    I thought it would be a better heal but since it's scaling off damage and it does no damage I'm starting to think I chose wrong here

    Yea, I honestly think funnel health is the worst ability in the game. You’ll get about a 3k tooltip in no-CP, then people tank up and there’s battle spirit. When I tried it as a healer it ticks for maybe 500, on a dps with pen you might get 700 if you’re lucky.

    I’m not sure why it’s been left so bad in the class audit. Maybe it has uses in pve without battle spirit and full penetration, IDK, but I don’t think so.

    The ability’s so bad that most people when they try to NB heal think the class sucks at it because they use it assuming it’s part of the class toolkit. Even in pve NB healing works by not using it.

    The only thing good about it is if the initial hit crits all the hot ticks will crit, but really who cares on a spammable.

    Yea this is exactly what I experienced with it tonight the hot is really bad.

    They should have moved the minor vitality to it after removing it from swallow soul.

    Yea, there was some nonsense I heard about Devs being concerned about NBs having minor and major vitality? Why NBs having minor vitality would be OP is beyond me, one thing that’s becoming apparent with the class audit is once skills are ‘balanced’ access to buffs become really important.

    The distribution of buffs amongst classes is really lopsided because NBs lost minor berserk and vitality.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 23, 2019 2:10AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
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