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State Comparison of Echoing/Resolving Vigor to Live and other similar heals

  • ThePedge
    ThePedge
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think the rationale is to kill ball groups in pvp.

    Changing healing springs and vigor... those are the two primary healing tools.

    True, but the change of being only on yourself or weaker AoE already does that, especially if they dont stack.

    Healing yourself doesn't effect ball groups except make it easier for them to kill others
    We may be down but we will never be out.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    ThePedge wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think the rationale is to kill ball groups in pvp.

    Changing healing springs and vigor... those are the two primary healing tools.

    True, but the change of being only on yourself or weaker AoE already does that, especially if they dont stack.

    Healing yourself doesn't effect ball groups except make it easier for them to kill others

    Yea, but that’s why I think they hit echoing. After the resto pass echoing was the best group heal, so they buffed mutagen and brought echoing vigor down to mutagen level.

    Resolving technically is a little more HPS on yourself then live, but with buffed damage it might be too much of a nerf. Then they left rapid regen strong since for pve healing not all classes have a good ST heal, so this will let other classes compete with NB and Templar for ST healing.

    I can see the intent, but can also see it going poorly because the values might be off. It depends on how things play out in pvp with so many changes.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • RandomKodiak
    RandomKodiak
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    For DW for only about a 1% dps loss just slot Bloodthirst instead of rapid strikes. Same exact character and gear just those 2 different and I got lucky with rng for a good comparison.
    v0lmu7vtmhb8.png

    2wqi3j9zijkt.png

    with those numbers you can save stam by switching for a very minmal loss and heal for over 5k every spammable so not too bad a trade off. Throw down Circle if you think you need a hot with the benefit of 3% dps for it being slotted.
  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think the rationale is to kill ball groups in pvp.

    Changing healing springs and vigor... those are the two primary healing tools.

    Would make sense if they didn’t buff RR/Mut but.....
  • ArtemisPrime81
    ArtemisPrime81
    Soul Shriven
    Well, I *WAS* going to make a necro stam healer for sh*ts and grins....but I may not now. Just rude.
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
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    NBrookus wrote: »
    Magicka can use resto staff. Or their class heals. Stamina has nothing.

    Resto staff isn't a reliable heal, unless you think your RR/Ward going to the AFK guy at full health stealthed up behind a tree is reliable.

    So use Combat Prayer?
  • Somnilux
    Somnilux
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    LiquidPony wrote: »
    NBrookus wrote: »
    Magicka can use resto staff. Or their class heals. Stamina has nothing.

    Resto staff isn't a reliable heal, unless you think your RR/Ward going to the AFK guy at full health stealthed up behind a tree is reliable.

    So use Combat Prayer?

    for a roughly 1 magicka to 2 health ratio at best for a self heal?

    That's not possible unless you're completely group healer spec and even then not efficient.

    Rapid Regen or Healing Ward will be the efficient personal heals and there will always be unreliable aspects to the targeting of those. Healing Ward seems a little overtuned, but I'll likely be running RR on my nb heals along with healthy offering/illustrious/refreshing path I usually use.
    Luxe Khanna - AD, Rank 44 Argonian Magblade Healer
    Crystala Khanna - AD, Rank 32 Khajiit Stamplar Werewolf
    Guilds: Fantasia, Dominant Dominion.
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
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    I think this has commented already but... they´re not similar skills.

    One is a general skill which can be used on any weapon.

    The other is a skill from a specialized weapon, which doesnt fit on any PvE DD build.

    The day Vigor becomes s&b skill, we will be able to make comparisons.
  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
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    akray21 wrote: »
    We want to change the heavy armor meta? This does the opposite, it reinforces the HA meta.

    Exactly.

    When the first patch notes came out I was actually happy about finally playing medium, and then every new patch note made medium less of an option, to the point now where I wouldn't even consider it. They nerfed survivability and healing, while buffing overall damage.

  • The_Last_Titan
    The_Last_Titan
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    so whats a rapid regen tooltip for a stam character compared to resolving?... :D

    But yeah the difference in healing seems massive between the two
    Edited by The_Last_Titan on August 6, 2019 7:28PM
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Crixus8000 wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    We want to change the heavy armor meta? This does the opposite, it reinforces the HA meta.

    Exactly.

    When the first patch notes came out I was actually happy about finally playing medium, and then every new patch note made medium less of an option, to the point now where I wouldn't even consider it. They nerfed survivability and healing, while buffing overall damage.

    I tend to agree. Ironically when all of this shakes out the top pvp classes will be NB and MagSorc.

  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    RR was left untouched because it's not a guarantee on the caster. There are times when you need to cast it 3+ times just to hit yourself.

    The self morph of Vigor is guaranteed even if it was nerfed. Good players will adjust.

    All of this being said, I don't like the upcoming potency of DoTs and truly those are what will need to be toned down.
    Edited by brandonv516 on August 6, 2019 7:42PM
  • No_Division
    No_Division
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    susmitds wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    Crixus8000 wrote: »
    akray21 wrote: »
    We want to change the heavy armor meta? This does the opposite, it reinforces the HA meta.

    Exactly.

    When the first patch notes came out I was actually happy about finally playing medium, and then every new patch note made medium less of an option, to the point now where I wouldn't even consider it. They nerfed survivability and healing, while buffing overall damage.

    I tend to agree. Ironically when all of this shakes out the top pvp classes will be NB and MagSorc.
    Lol, what. Have you even dueled in PTS after 5.1.4? The strongest specs are by far magplar and magdk.

    then again nobody did open world tests against outnumbered/group fights lol.
    If you think the heals are bad, wait till you get hit with 10X soul trap lol.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Think about it. Healers werent wanted in BGs apart from premades. Maybe we could switch this.

    There is not many changes really for pvp stamina. We will heal more or less the same in less time; stamina will do the same: vigor + dodge and not getting any damage till full Vigor goes up. With just a single dodge, it will close to the full healing. Sure, we will miss Rally the ones who use 2H ,which are not everyone.

    It will be true if not for 2 powerful 28m+ undodgeable dots.

    I think two uses of Vigor will more or less kept the dots (and the dots need that time to deal full damage).

    You can spam vigor all you want. It will not outheal the dots

    Depends on the build, a build with no mitigation probably not.

    You will need to stack multiple HoTs together which on a stamina build is going to be pretty hard due to the lack of healing options on stam. Probably will need to go lingering pots and TK combined with vigor just to survive, but why the heck would you do that for subpar healing when you could go magicka and get infinitely more healing than a stam build while giving up less to get the healing?

    Doesn't really matter what people say on the PTS, everyone can see for themselves what PvP will be like if this actually hits live.

    You’re right. The problem with standardizing abilities is stamina doesn’t have access to as many healing abilities. An ‘OP’ vigor was the crutch used to even the playing field.

    Hopefully something like a second heal is in the works, like a stamina heal from a bardic skill line or something like that.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • artal
    artal
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    Rikumaru wrote: »
    You will need to stack multiple HoTs together which on a stamina build is going to be pretty hard due to the lack of healing options on stam. Probably will need to go lingering pots and TK combined with vigor just to survive, but why the heck would you do that for subpar healing when you could go magicka and get infinitely more healing than a stam build while giving up less to get the healing?

    Doesn't really matter what people say on the PTS, everyone can see for themselves what PvP will be like if this actually hits live.
    I went on pts to test, magnb vs stam sorc. Entrophy, soul trap, debilitate and reach dot without any direct dmg, just dots, thats 110k tooltip of dots. Gl healing with *** vigor

  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Difference of tooltips on no-CP hybrid (magicka and stamina, WD/SD are exactly the same):

    nWZDmHz.jpg
    787nEFY.jpg

    Difference is 18936/11835 = 66%. Looks balanced and carefully thought out.
    (no)
    Restart your router
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    @ZOS
    Please replace "battle cry" in vigor's description for "pitiful cry" or "desperate cry" or something fitting.
    Restart your router
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Ok, RIP Vigor, stamina can roll-dodge, okay. Tooltip of coagualating in same conditions:
    7ndyd1vy2wvw.jpg

    So RR will heal in 2 seconds for same amount as coagualting blood in 1 second, but RR costs 2 times less.
    Restart your router
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