Lack of Werewolves = Proof Not OP

Skoomah

It’s been proven many times that the community will gravitate towards what is fun and powerful. If you do a simple eye test you would barely see werewolves roaming around Tamriel. If this is the case, why does ZOS keep tweaking werewolves to be less fun to play and less powerful.

Aztlan

I have to agree with you. Werewolves on live are in a pretty good spot.

ccfeeling

Whatever, I will change all my 6 WW back to the humanroid build after new update.

Wolfhunter WW was OK, not anymore.

Tommy_The_Gun

peacenote

FWIW, I don't play my werewolf much now primarily because it hurts my hand, but also because I find it a little boring in WW form and it is annoying when forced out of WW form when you have to wait because of unavoidable down time (quest dialog, fight being explained, etc.).

Even if it was the most OP configuration possible, I wouldn't play it much because of those issues so those types of things may be why you don't see as many werewolves around.

Skoomah

Some equations from a long time player for the mathematically inclined:

Fun = Engaged Player = Spending Opportunity = ZOS Creating More Content

Nerfs + Frequent Revamp of Playstyles = Not Fun = Disengaged Player = Lost Spending Opportunity = ZOS Creating Less Content (Quantity, Quality)

Skoomah

peacenote wrote: »

FWIW, I don't play my werewolf much now primarily because it hurts my hand, but also because I find it a little boring in WW form and it is annoying when forced out of WW form when you have to wait because of unavoidable down time (quest dialog, fight being explained, etc.).

Even if it was the most OP configuration possible, I wouldn't play it much because of those issues so those types of things may be why you don't see as many werewolves around.

Very insightful. It’s a combination of fun + power I think. Gotta have both for players to choose to spend their time as a werewolf vs something else.

VaranisArano

That's a bit simplistic.
I don't see a lot of werewolves in CP Cyrodiil (a few, but not common), PVE group content, or while questing.

I do see a lot of werewolves in Below 50 BGs.

Some of that's undoubtedly just what I notice, so I'm sure ZOS has the actual stats on how many people play WW in different content.


Personally, I like my WW for questing when the cool down doesnt matter, but not for PVE group content since I prefer to tank (WW has no taunt) or the usual stam DD rotation is better for clearing mobs outside of WW form.

Skoomah

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's a bit simplistic.
I don't see a lot of werewolves in CP Cyrodiil (a few, but not common), PVE group content, or while questing.

I do see a lot of werewolves in Below 50 BGs.

Some of that's undoubtedly just what I notice, so I'm sure ZOS has the actual stats on how many people play WW in different content.


Personally, I like my WW for questing when the cool down doesnt matter, but not for PVE group content since I prefer to tank (WW has no taunt) or the usual stam DD rotation is better for clearing mobs outside of WW form.

Okay, but how long are people staying below level 50. You kill mobs for less than 10 hours, do a few dungeons, do a few BGs and you’re at level 50. The remaining 99% of the ESO experience is at max level.

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO

Ww already below the meta in pve dps.
Ww already very counterable in pvp on live.
Ww even more counterable now with silver leash and poison injection being buffed up.

Ww is going to blow after these nerfs hit

Ignor

Skoomah wrote: »

If you do a simple eye test you would barely see werewolves roaming around Tamriel.

WW out of WW form is less easy to see.

Many people tend to play FOTM slyle and if they feel WW is not OP enough they switch to something more OP.

For me WW is about having fun and I play it for better and for worse, no nerfbat can change that.

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO

Ignor wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

If you do a simple eye test you would barely see werewolves roaming around Tamriel.

WW out of WW form is less easy to see.

Many people tend to play FOTM slyle and if they feel WW is not OP enough they switch to something more OP.

For me WW is about having fun and I play it for better and for worse, no nerfbat can change that.

Unfortunately it’s uncompetitive players like yourself will be the only ones running ww in pvp.

Ww is fine where it’s at and we should voice our opinions against these unnecessary nerfs wether you’ll continue to play ww or now

VaranisArano

Skoomah wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's a bit simplistic.
I don't see a lot of werewolves in CP Cyrodiil (a few, but not common), PVE group content, or while questing.

I do see a lot of werewolves in Below 50 BGs.

Some of that's undoubtedly just what I notice, so I'm sure ZOS has the actual stats on how many people play WW in different content.


Personally, I like my WW for questing when the cool down doesnt matter, but not for PVE group content since I prefer to tank (WW has no taunt) or the usual stam DD rotation is better for clearing mobs outside of WW form.

Okay, but how long are people staying below level 50. You kill mobs for less than 10 hours, do a few dungeons, do a few BGs and you’re at level 50. The remaining 99% of the ESO experience is at max level.

That's certainly a point for players intending to level and leave.

Like with the below 50 campaign, there are players who like to stay in the Below 50 BGs, recreating the character when they level out. So "level and leave" is not the whole picture.

I can't speak to above 50 BGs, as I only play those during events, so I have no idea about the prevalence of WWs there.

I guess where I'm uncertain is where ZOS thinks WW ought to shine. Their skill set doesnt fit well in harder PVE group content - little support and too much single target. The only times I've seen them be very effective are BGs and in overland questing. Changing that would require reworking their toolkit. (That's not to say WWs can't do hard PVE content if the players are sufficiently skilled, but its sure not the meta.)

ZeroXFF

Minimum change that would make WWs useful: stop timer when out of combat.

msalvia

I dunno, could WW be any less fun and engaging than it is now? Who wants to stand around and light attack all day? I get that it's stamdps easy mode, so I'm not sure it should be more competitive than it is.

WW exists as a semi-competitive way to spam light attacks FTW. Why do WW players always complain that easy mode isn't more powerful?

Hashtag_

Lack of werewolves means we can still hold out hope for humanity that not everyone is a furry.

Saril_Durzam

I play a WW and it "forces" me to stay focused on all the time so i can stay in WW. Cant take a small break even, or i will have to start over.

I guess that´s why we dont see them everywhere. Which doesnt mean they dont exist. They´re very fun but not for everyday playing.

SirLeeMinion

Skoomah wrote: »

It’s been proven many times that the community will gravitate towards what is fun and powerful. If you do a simple eye test you would barely see werewolves roaming around Tamriel. If this is the case, why does ZOS keep tweaking werewolves to be less fun to play and less powerful.

You see a substantial number of them in under 50 BGs, along with Pet-sorcs. When you play in this one small subset of the game, you see they are OP there - primarily because you hit the pets, rather than the player, so often.

For regular damage dealer usage WW and pet sorc are similar in that both allow relatively easy access to the 35-45K DPS that is needed for harder content. On the other hand, the DPS of both sub-classes is overshadowed by other builds - especially for players with good connections and coordination. There was no reason to nerf WW for this type of content.

Finally, pet-sorc and WW have been my favorite builds for solo PvE this past year due to their survivability and easy rotation. This allows one to keep up some level of mediocre DPS under the pressure of constant interrupts (because vet dungeon bosses are designed to spread their CC over four players, not just one). This play-style has hurt nobody and will be hurt the most by the nerfs.

conclusion: ZOS should balance PvP and PvE separately. Since they will not, rage and mourn, then adapt or move on.

Wuuffyy

***************

Wuuffyy

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

It’s been proven many times that the community will gravitate towards what is fun and powerful. If you do a simple eye test you would barely see werewolves roaming around Tamriel. If this is the case, why does ZOS keep tweaking werewolves to be less fun to play and less powerful.

You see a substantial number of them in under 50 BGs, along with Pet-sorcs. When you play in this one small subset of the game, you see they are OP there - primarily because you hit the pets, rather than the player, so often.

For regular damage dealer usage WW and pet sorc are similar in that both allow relatively easy access to the 35-45K DPS that is needed for harder content. On the other hand, the DPS of both sub-classes is overshadowed by other builds - especially for players with good connections and coordination. There was no reason to nerf WW for this type of content.

Finally, pet-sorc and WW have been my favorite builds for solo PvE this past year due to their survivability and easy rotation. This allows one to keep up some level of mediocre DPS under the pressure of constant interrupts (because vet dungeon bosses are designed to spread their CC over four players, not just one). This play-style has hurt nobody and will be hurt the most by the nerfs.

conclusion: ZOS should balance PvP and PvE separately. Since they will not, rage and mourn, then adapt or move on.

Get outta below CP then.... WTF kinda baseline is that. EWWWWWWWWW!!!

Dashmatt

It’s almost like the PTS changes were planned during that brief Torug’s Pact WW meta that existed while DW enchants were bugged, and pack leader zergs were making Battlegrounds unbearable.

But then they forgot they fixed that and it’s not a thing anymore.

MentalxHammer

Friends dont let friends play werewolf.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

With there already being an active thread on this subject here, we're going to go ahead and close this one down.

Thank you for understanding.