Up-Coming Multi-bidding Changes

Arrodisia · July 2019

No, scrape whole idea and find another way to deal with said issues

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Terrible change. It hurts new and poor players. One of my guilds has already doubled weekly dues and quadrupled weekly sales requirements.

I agree. This change is not for the best. It will have a large and negative impact on many guilds. A lot of guilds are already relying on donations, sales, raffles,............ to get one bid in each week. There's just no more gold in the pots for multi bidding. Most GM's and members will feel bad about knocking smaller, midsized, and new startups out of their spots, but we're all being pushed to do what's necessary to ensure our traders can sell their wares. Nothing about that will be fun for either side of the equation. It would make more sense for ZOS to push off the multi bidding change until they find another way, which is fair and fun for everyone.

Best wishes and cheers.

generalmyrick · July 2019

Yes, I think it it a great change as is

maaaaaan, explain to me, why this change would cause guilds to DOUBLE fees!!!!???

its like this change is shrinking the spots by half?
doubling everybody's bank roll?

am i missing something?

you can only when one spot...

i'm really asking here, please don't come with anger.

@Enemy-of-Coldharbour @juttaa77b16_ESO

therift · July 2019

generalmyrick wrote: »

maaaaaan, explain to me, why this change would cause guilds to DOUBLE fees!!!!???

its like this change is shrinking the spots by half?
doubling everybody's bank roll?

am i missing something?

you can only when one spot...

i'm really asking here, please don't come with anger.

@Enemy-of-Coldharbour @juttaa77b16_ESO

Read this thread. The reasons to increase fees have been posted and explained in depth.

Why is your guild doubling fees? That's a bit excessive.

SugaComa · July 2019

Just make it so you can only sell to guild members do away with traders in open world create smaller economies

That way people who just think the games about money can join a guild that will sell stuff at stupid prices to each other ..

Here's a potato 2million gold please

Or a friendly guild that's helps each other

Here's Chromium plating, 12k , yeah we know it's hard to get but it's our economy.

We already run like in a few guilds I'm in cos did us it's about the bond of friendship not how much we can fleece a digital fireplace for

wenchmore420b14_ESO · July 2019

No, 10 is too many. How about 2-3

SugaComa wrote: »

Just make it so you can only sell to guild members do away with traders in open world create smaller economies

That way people who just think the games about money can join a guild that will sell stuff at stupid prices to each other ..

Here's a potato 2million gold please

Or a friendly guild that's helps each other

Here's Chromium plating, 12k , yeah we know it's hard to get but it's our economy.

We already run like in a few guilds I'm in cos did us it's about the bond of friendship not how much we can fleece a digital fireplace for

I see what you are saying, but, no.
Been there, done that.
Eso launched without kiosks. They weren't introduced till update 6. If you wanted to sell or buy, it was in zone chat in capitol cities like Riften or just within guilds.

This is a GOOD system, and yes it needs some fix's, but this is not the answer.
Multi bidding and the changes to guild history are going to make things even harder for GM's to run their guilds.

Palidon · July 2019

No, scrape whole idea and find another way to deal with said issues

ZOS continually implements or changes things that make the game worse. This is one of them.

SteveCampsOut · July 2019

Other

Urigall wrote: »

Don't know what to think.

Ten bids has probably been chosen because of how the various scenarios are projected to play out.

Even top guilds might have to start being selective about whether they make one, massive bid with one or two very high bids, or one massive bid with four or five high bids, or one massive bid with nine lowish bids spread evenly. The risk of being sniped for the preferred spot, and then losing out, if nine, lowish bids are submitted, might be quite high. There are also risks associated with one massive bid and a small number of high bids.

Much will depend upon whether the top guilds can maintain a big enough war chest, to consistently facilitate a large number of high bids across the board. If the cost of top kiosks keeps on rising, top guilds might find their war chest depletes, thus making high bids across the board more difficult. Much will depend on whether top guilds can maintain their war chest at a consistent level.

At face value, it does look like financial firepower will be the key to winning in the short term. Unless that financial firepower can be maintained all the time, the outcome of the bidding process might become more varied.

Reducing the number of bids would probably advantage the big guilds, because they could then always concentrate their resources on the spots they really want to secure.

But ten bids probably has ramifications lower down the pecking order.

Don't know whether the changes are good or bad all round.

With any luck, players won't keep supporting extortionist fees and dues and quota's just to keep the top spots and it will slowly drain the coffer's of those guilds who have secreted away millions and maybe billions of gold.

therift · July 2019

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

show previous quotes

Urigall wrote: »

Don't know what to think.

Ten bids has probably been chosen because of how the various scenarios are projected to play out.

Even top guilds might have to start being selective about whether they make one, massive bid with one or two very high bids, or one massive bid with four or five high bids, or one massive bid with nine lowish bids spread evenly. The risk of being sniped for the preferred spot, and then losing out, if nine, lowish bids are submitted, might be quite high. There are also risks associated with one massive bid and a small number of high bids.

Much will depend upon whether the top guilds can maintain a big enough war chest, to consistently facilitate a large number of high bids across the board. If the cost of top kiosks keeps on rising, top guilds might find their war chest depletes, thus making high bids across the board more difficult. Much will depend on whether top guilds can maintain their war chest at a consistent level.

At face value, it does look like financial firepower will be the key to winning in the short term. Unless that financial firepower can be maintained all the time, the outcome of the bidding process might become more varied.

Reducing the number of bids would probably advantage the big guilds, because they could then always concentrate their resources on the spots they really want to secure.

But ten bids probably has ramifications lower down the pecking order.

Don't know whether the changes are good or bad all round.

With any luck, players won't keep supporting extortionist fees and dues and quota's just to keep the top spots and it will slowly drain the coffer's of those guilds who have secreted away millions and maybe billions of gold.

Lmao.

RedTalon · July 2019

I vote Cake

Not in a guild, nor do I ever plan to be unless its a joke guild like knights who say ni, or trolls under a bridge

So cake

Arrodisia · July 2019

No, scrape whole idea and find another way to deal with said issues

therift wrote: »

show previous quotes

generalmyrick wrote: »

maaaaaan, explain to me, why this change would cause guilds to DOUBLE fees!!!!???

its like this change is shrinking the spots by half?
doubling everybody's bank roll?

am i missing something?

you can only when one spot...

i'm really asking here, please don't come with anger.

@Enemy-of-Coldharbour @juttaa77b16_ESO

Read this thread. The reasons to increase fees have been posted and explained in depth.

Why is your guild doubling fees? That's a bit excessive.

I couldn't have said it better myself. There will always be those few players, who blindly comment on things without reading the entire thread. So, they come with only a small piece of the whole story. Some of them even phrasing most things with a lot of attitude and snark. Anyone running a guild for a while, who has any common sense, already knows what kind of problems this change can cause. It makes me wonder if they are even playing the game, or just playing the forums.
Anyway, the change is bad for the many reasons, which we already stated in this thread, and the other threads on this subject. I'm hoping. ZOS will listen to the players, and push the 10x's bidding change off, until they find a better solution for the lack of vendor spots in the game. Otherwise, a lot of smaller, midsized, and newer guilds will just be pushed out of the trade system. I still don't see the fun or fairness in that for guilds on either side of the situation.

Have fun in the game, and best wishes all

therift · July 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I couldn't have said it better myself. There will always be those few players, who blindly comment on things without reading the entire thread. So, they come with only a small piece of the whole story. Some of them even phrasing most things with a lot of attitude and snark.

Exactly. They skip over four pages of explanation and discussion and post at the end if the thread, demanding an explanation, as if all the other participants are going to take the time to re-post just to save the arse-hat the effort of reading from the beginning.

It's lazy, it's rude, and it's trollish behavior.

ezio45 · July 2019

No, scrape whole idea and find another way to deal with said issues

As the second officer of a major trading guild ps4 na, this idea is stupid, ill thought out, dangerous to the health of guilds and the trader market at large and needs to be scraped.

We asked for ghost guilds to be removed. They removed them and gave a tool that does the same thing.

anitajoneb17_ESO · July 2019

Yes, I think it it a great change as is

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Some of them even phrasing most things with a lot of attitude and snark.

The irony is really strong here. Attitude ? Snark ? How about looking at yourself (well, your posts) in a mirror now ?

therift wrote: »

It's lazy, it's rude, and it's trollish behavior.

It seems to me like you are the minority here trying to convince ZOS/the audience of your point of view.
If you think you'll achieve this by insulting people like you're doing right now, I'm afraid I have to inform you that you're entirely wrong. You are the ones who have to persuade other people and gain them to your cause, which implies a lot of patience and explanation.

But carry on if you like. Your choice.

generalmyrick wrote: »

maaaaaan, explain to me, why this change would cause guilds to DOUBLE fees!!!!???

Double is quite unlikely, but it is likely that the bids will be significantly higher overall in the short term, for psychological reasons : GMs will be scared of "10 times more bids", the established order of things will be scrambled from head to toe, and GMs will want to secure their positions by sacrificing more gold in the first weeks.

I believe the market will sort it out over time, - and by "over time", I mean until some time like around Christmas - and whether it will stabilize at higher or lower prices than now, noone knows.

anitajoneb17_ESO · July 2019

Yes, I think it it a great change as is

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS will listen to the players, and push the 10x's bidding change off,

They advertised it today on an official announcement article.
Good thing.

therift · July 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS will listen to the players, and push the 10x's bidding change off,

They advertised it today on an official announcement article.
Good thing.

I did not find a new article in Announcements, nor a change to the Update 23 and Performance Improvement articles. Can you post a link, since I guess I'm looking in the wrong spot?

anitajoneb17_ESO · July 2019

Yes, I think it it a great change as is

therift wrote: »

show previous quotes

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS will listen to the players, and push the 10x's bidding change off,

They advertised it today on an official announcement article.
Good thing.

I did not find a new article in Announcements, nor a change to the Update 23 and Performance Improvement articles. Can you post a link, since I guess I'm looking in the wrong spot?

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56683
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487519/official-discussion-thread-for-update-23-brings-improvements-to-guilds-crafters-the-undaunted

wenchmore420b14_ESO · July 2019

No, 10 is too many. How about 2-3

@ZOS_ BobbyWeir, @ZOS_PhilipDraven ,

Have you looked at the response and PTS feedback on this?
Please reconsider number of bids. PTS can no way show how this is going to affect everyone.
But big GM's, small GM's and the players themselves are going to suffer from this.
My 2 drakes... Huzzah!

therift · July 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

therift wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS will listen to the players, and push the 10x's bidding change off,

They advertised it today on an official announcement article.
Good thing.

I did not find a new article in Announcements, nor a change to the Update 23 and Performance Improvement articles. Can you post a link, since I guess I'm looking in the wrong spot?

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56683
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487519/official-discussion-thread-for-update-23-brings-improvements-to-guilds-crafters-the-undaunted

Thanks, but even after refreshing my browser, I still didn't see where ZoS said they are backing off from 10 bids. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

Will try again later. Must be my cache.

anitajoneb17_ESO · July 2019

Yes, I think it it a great change as is

therift wrote: »

show previous quotes

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS will listen to the players, and push the 10x's bidding change off,

They advertised it today on an official announcement article.
Good thing.

I did not find a new article in Announcements, nor a change to the Update 23 and Performance Improvement articles. Can you post a link, since I guess I'm looking in the wrong spot?

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56683
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487519/official-discussion-thread-for-update-23-brings-improvements-to-guilds-crafters-the-undaunted

Thanks, but even after refreshing my browser, I still didn't see where ZoS said they are backing off from 10 bids. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

Will try again later. Must be my cache.

Oh ! No !
Yes, you misunderstood.

My post should be read like :

"You can hope all you want, ZOS will not back off from 10 bids, they even announced the whole change officially, and I think it's a good thing". (and yes, I was a bit snarky at Jutta, here, I confess). Sorry for the false hope.

Androconium · July 2019

I vote Cake

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

SugaComa wrote: »

Just make it so you can only sell to guild members do away with traders in open world create smaller economies

That way people who just think the games about money can join a guild that will sell stuff at stupid prices to each other ..

Here's a potato 2million gold please

Or a friendly guild that's helps each other

Here's Chromium plating, 12k , yeah we know it's hard to get but it's our economy.

We already run like in a few guilds I'm in cos did us it's about the bond of friendship not how much we can fleece a digital fireplace for

I see what you are saying, but, no.
Been there, done that.
Eso launched without kiosks. They weren't introduced till update 6. If you wanted to sell or buy, it was in zone chat in capitol cities like Riften or just within guilds.

This is a GOOD system, and yes it needs some fix's, but this is not the answer.
Multi bidding and the changes to guild history are going to make things even harder for GM's to run their guilds.

No-one is even considering this last statement.

By "considering", I mean accepting that these issues are already known to ZOS and they are committed to implementing them as a desired change; and regardless of player sentiment.

So let's accept this change on move onto what long term effects will result.

essi2 · July 2019

Other

10 is probably too many, how about 4?

Androconium · July 2019

I vote Cake

I didnt vote in this poll. Why does it say that I did?

Urigall · July 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

GMs will be scared of "10 times more bids", the established order of things will be scrambled from head to toe, and GMs will want to secure their positions by sacrificing more gold in the first weeks.

Agreed.

My amateur guess is big guilds will do whatever they can to avoid falling within the sniping range of guilds lower down the tiers. The only way to do that is to spend money. Big guilds are relatively insulated from challenges, because few other guilds can fight them with similar resources. Agreements add to the relative insulation of the big guilds from too many challengers.

Once a bigger guild drops even one level, it has to fight off a few more challengers. A week or two later, the same guild might be bumped down another level. Even more potential challengers next week. Defence? Hold ground at all costs. The biggest guilds can do that for a fair while. Eventually, the gap between revenue and expenditure will get bigger and bigger. Minimum sales requirements will possibly have to rise. Higher, minimum sales means fewer traders will be able (or willing) to meet the new targets, so they'll leave (or be kicked)

Were I a GM of a big guild, I wouldn't like these changes one bit. Nor I would I like the changes were I GM of a smaller guild. But I'd take solace as GM of a smaller guild, if a big guild was demoted and thus fell within range of my guns.

The (main) reason why ZoS has proposed the changes seems to be a desire to shake the kiosk market up (see ZoS' comments on the PTS board) Various ways were almost certainly explored and this one was deemed to be the best overall.

In setting up the new system ZoS had to ask two questions. 1) How can we promote more kiosk rotation? 2) How can we make sure the changes will not lead to big guilds gaining an unfair advantage? ZoS will have simulated this to the nth degree; they are not lacking in brain power. There will be damage across the guild market - at all levels - but that was the price that had to be paid. Breaking eggs to make an omelette and all that. Assuming we all liked omelette in the first place, of course.

There is a third question, one that is difficult to address, but which will have been asked. What are the implications for the lowest tier guilds and new entrants? Hard to say, although if lower tier prices don't shoot up, there might not be a problem in the longer term. Short term, some guilds might deploy capital to gain an advantage. Paying big wonga, for a low revenue spot, won't be sustainable after a few weeks.

I'm neither defending or supporting the changes - there are pros and cons for all guilds. I'm simply thinking out loud, after reading what ZoS posted on the PTS board, regarding kiosk movement.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I believe the market will sort it out over time, - and by "over time", I mean until some time like around Christmas - and whether it will stabilize at higher or lower prices than now, noone knows.

Someone posted a good explanation on the PTS board, regarding how the changes might play out: chaos initially, followed by a bedding down. That's quite possible.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · July 2019

No, 10 is too many. How about 2-3

Androconium wrote: »

show previous quotes

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Just make it so you can only sell to guild members do away with traders in open world create smaller economies

That way people who just think the games about money can join a guild that will sell stuff at stupid prices to each other ..

Here's a potato 2million gold please

Or a friendly guild that's helps each other

Here's Chromium plating, 12k , yeah we know it's hard to get but it's our economy.

We already run like in a few guilds I'm in cos did us it's about the bond of friendship not how much we can fleece a digital fireplace for

I see what you are saying, but, no.
Been there, done that.
Eso launched without kiosks. They weren't introduced till update 6. If you wanted to sell or buy, it was in zone chat in capitol cities like Riften or just within guilds.

This is a GOOD system, and yes it needs some fix's, but this is not the answer.
Multi bidding and the changes to guild history are going to make things even harder for GM's to run their guilds.

No-one is even considering this last statement.

By "considering", I mean accepting that these issues are already known to ZOS and they are committed to implementing them as a desired change; and regardless of player sentiment.

So let's accept this change on move onto what long term effects will result.

At one time, player sentiment was important. At launch and for several years, once a month, the Devs would have a "Rountable" discussion with a group of GM's about changes, bugs, ideas, etc. Any old "Council of Nirn" GM's still around? What happened?

As far as "Just accept it", NO. We will not and should not just roll over and say "Oh well".
These changes do not just affect GM's, but thousands and thousands of guild members. It is our duty and responsibility to voice what we see as bad or wrong.

Dont_do_drugs · July 2019

No, scrape whole idea and find another way to deal with said issues

Where is the auction house option?