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Cast Timed Ultimates Discussion

  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    zaria wrote: »
    Not that ive gone through and tested every ultimate, but with the few I have used, not really noticed much of a difference tbh.

    Maybe because im used to being screwed over by other cast time abilities so im naturally more careful with cast times and rotation pacing. Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.
    Do you live in US or EU / other?
    EU players has significantly more lag because PTS is in US, US player might well be better off on PTS as its an less used system, gameplay feel be more laggy in huge fights because of server and client slowdowns.

    I'm from EU and have test few ult on PTS and didn't notice cast time on ult too.
    PC - EU

    Characters :
    HL Content :
    Breton - Templar - Healer
    Nord - Warden - Healer
    Breton - Necromancer - Healer

    Mid Content :
    Breton - Dragon Knight - Healer
    Khajiit - Sorcerer - Healer
    Khajiit - Night Blade - Healer

    Story Content :
    Nord - Dragon Knight - Tank/Dps

    My English is far from perfect but I try my best !
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    Zone chat is filled with mostly newbies, who dont have the slightest clue how to PvP and believe in zerging.

    that's why i'm in it for the newbies. i'd rather have a full Cyro with newbies and zergs; than an empty Cyro with a few veteran elite meta players.
    Davadin wrote: »
    Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.


    huh? why? Stampede is *** in PTS.... im still sticking to Crit Strike with the new buff.

    Like volly its now a viable AOE weapon ability to make the weapon hold an enchant proccing from the offbar. So its part of the PVE rotation now, if you do 2h backbar.

    but the DoT is so low.... and u can just use Carve can't you? better DoT, better initial hit (and cheaper? not sure)

    I understand the point of view, but I don't share it. Making the game a more casual experience will just make said veterans shrug and leave, and soon ESO will be a sandbox while everyone with a bit more experience will leave for greener pastures. Might as well make PvP turn based, will give newbies some time to think their moves over. ESO always had fast-paced combat as a selling point; equalize everyone by forcing the combat to be slow and viscous, and it won't have anything going for it.

    Anything that makes the game easier for the ones getting killed also makes it harder for the ones doing the killing.

    True veterans and good players welcome the added challenge, instead of running from it.

    Not particularly. You're forgetting that next minute, the one's getting killed is the one who's trying to kill, and will find themselves in same situation. And if even a newbie has no issues avoiding an ultimate, then newbies themselves will have no chance using it against veterans.

    The newbies' ability to use ultimates on veterans will be vastly improved simply due to the virtue of not being dead in the first second of contact.
    Edited by Sharee on July 29, 2019 10:24AM
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Aznarb wrote: »
    zaria wrote: »
    Not that ive gone through and tested every ultimate, but with the few I have used, not really noticed much of a difference tbh.

    Maybe because im used to being screwed over by other cast time abilities so im naturally more careful with cast times and rotation pacing. Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.
    Do you live in US or EU / other?
    EU players has significantly more lag because PTS is in US, US player might well be better off on PTS as its an less used system, gameplay feel be more laggy in huge fights because of server and client slowdowns.

    I'm from EU and have test few ult on PTS and didn't notice cast time on ult too.

    Because only particular ults have been nerfed.


    Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
    Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
    Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
    Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
    Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

    So basically anything that could be used by NBs. Somehow Dragon Leap and Radial Sweep are not affected.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Kolzki
    Kolzki
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    I wouldn’t have a problem with the cast time if the bar swap I press afterwards actually happened. A fraction of a second delay when casting something would be fine if the following action correctly fired.

    It’s when I press for an action and it doesn’t happen that things become clunky and not fun. If I’m aiming to bar swap to hit an execute or whatever then I don’t want to then find that I’m stuck on the same bar and have refreshed a defensive buff instead.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Kolzki wrote: »
    I wouldn’t have a problem with the cast time if the bar swap I press afterwards actually happened. A fraction of a second delay when casting something would be fine if the following action correctly fired.

    It’s when I press for an action and it doesn’t happen that things become clunky and not fun. If I’m aiming to bar swap to hit an execute or whatever then I don’t want to then find that I’m stuck on the same bar and have refreshed a defensive buff instead.

    This is a bug currently on PTS. The bar swap is not supposed to be affected.

    "General

    Many core combat abilities such as Sprint, Dodge, Bash, and bar swapping can fail to occur if cast within 100ms of activating an ability. This is under investigation with high priority, and we’re working on getting it fixed as quickly as possible. "
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    Zone chat is filled with mostly newbies, who dont have the slightest clue how to PvP and believe in zerging.

    that's why i'm in it for the newbies. i'd rather have a full Cyro with newbies and zergs; than an empty Cyro with a few veteran elite meta players.
    Davadin wrote: »
    Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.


    huh? why? Stampede is *** in PTS.... im still sticking to Crit Strike with the new buff.

    Like volly its now a viable AOE weapon ability to make the weapon hold an enchant proccing from the offbar. So its part of the PVE rotation now, if you do 2h backbar.

    but the DoT is so low.... and u can just use Carve can't you? better DoT, better initial hit (and cheaper? not sure)

    I understand the point of view, but I don't share it. Making the game a more casual experience will just make said veterans shrug and leave, and soon ESO will be a sandbox while everyone with a bit more experience will leave for greener pastures. Might as well make PvP turn based, will give newbies some time to think their moves over. ESO always had fast-paced combat as a selling point; equalize everyone by forcing the combat to be slow and viscous, and it won't have anything going for it.

    Anything that makes the game easier for the ones getting killed also makes it harder for the ones doing the killing.

    True veterans and good players welcome the added challenge, instead of running from it.

    Not particularly. You're forgetting that next minute, the one's getting killed is the one who's trying to kill, and will find themselves in same situation. And if even a newbie has no issues avoiding an ultimate, then newbies themselves will have no chance using it against veterans.

    The newbies' ability to use ultimates on veterans will be vastly improved simply due to the virtue of not being dead in the first second of contact.

    So every fight, in your view, should start with a ritual exchange of two useless ultimate casts and maybe a cup of tea? It doesn't work like that. The only lesson a newbie will learn from such encounters is not to use this ultimate at all while the other, smarter side is busy applying dots (and generally using their GCDs in more productive ways) while easily evading the ult. Make ultimates so easily avoidable that they'll only be working on sitting ducks - and only ducks will want to play such a game.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    Zone chat is filled with mostly newbies, who dont have the slightest clue how to PvP and believe in zerging.

    that's why i'm in it for the newbies. i'd rather have a full Cyro with newbies and zergs; than an empty Cyro with a few veteran elite meta players.
    Davadin wrote: »
    Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.


    huh? why? Stampede is *** in PTS.... im still sticking to Crit Strike with the new buff.

    Like volly its now a viable AOE weapon ability to make the weapon hold an enchant proccing from the offbar. So its part of the PVE rotation now, if you do 2h backbar.

    but the DoT is so low.... and u can just use Carve can't you? better DoT, better initial hit (and cheaper? not sure)

    I understand the point of view, but I don't share it. Making the game a more casual experience will just make said veterans shrug and leave, and soon ESO will be a sandbox while everyone with a bit more experience will leave for greener pastures. Might as well make PvP turn based, will give newbies some time to think their moves over. ESO always had fast-paced combat as a selling point; equalize everyone by forcing the combat to be slow and viscous, and it won't have anything going for it.

    Anything that makes the game easier for the ones getting killed also makes it harder for the ones doing the killing.

    True veterans and good players welcome the added challenge, instead of running from it.

    Not particularly. You're forgetting that next minute, the one's getting killed is the one who's trying to kill, and will find themselves in same situation. And if even a newbie has no issues avoiding an ultimate, then newbies themselves will have no chance using it against veterans.

    The newbies' ability to use ultimates on veterans will be vastly improved simply due to the virtue of not being dead in the first second of contact.

    So every fight, in your view, should start with a ritual exchange of two useless ultimate casts and maybe a cup of tea?

    In my view, ultimates should be used at an appropriate time, not always as soon as the fight starts, like it is today in the hope it will wipe out the opponent before he can even react.
    "The only lesson a newbie will learn from such encounters is not to use this ultimate at all"

    A newbie will always learn more from actually fighting, as opposed to dying from an animation cancelled DBoS combo before the fight even has a chance to start.


  • BattleAxe
    BattleAxe
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    zaria wrote: »
    Not that ive gone through and tested every ultimate, but with the few I have used, not really noticed much of a difference tbh.

    Maybe because im used to being screwed over by other cast time abilities so im naturally more careful with cast times and rotation pacing. Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.
    Do you live in US or EU / other?
    EU players has significantly more lag because PTS is in US, US player might well be better off on PTS as its an less used system, gameplay feel be more laggy in huge fights because of server and client slowdowns.

    I'm from EU and have test few ult on PTS and didn't notice cast time on ult too.

    Because only particular ults have been nerfed.


    Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
    Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
    Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
    Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
    Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

    So basically anything that could be used by NBs. Somehow Dragon Leap and Radial Sweep are not affected.

    The abilities affected by the change are primarily abilities that had little to no counterplay to them
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @Sharee , casuistry on your part. Using ultimate is fighting, at whichever moment, and learning to be ready for ultimate opening by seeing the telegraph and evading the damage (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live) is a part of learning ESO combat. Animation cancelling doesn't remove telegraphs on opponent's side, nor does it make damage come any faster (incap has travel time). By removing the skill needed to avoid the damage you simply dumb down the combat and allow newbies to learn fewer things, that's all. Which brings us to original point: make combat turn based, and vets will shrug and leave.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    BattleAxe wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    zaria wrote: »
    Not that ive gone through and tested every ultimate, but with the few I have used, not really noticed much of a difference tbh.

    Maybe because im used to being screwed over by other cast time abilities so im naturally more careful with cast times and rotation pacing. Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.
    Do you live in US or EU / other?
    EU players has significantly more lag because PTS is in US, US player might well be better off on PTS as its an less used system, gameplay feel be more laggy in huge fights because of server and client slowdowns.

    I'm from EU and have test few ult on PTS and didn't notice cast time on ult too.

    Because only particular ults have been nerfed.


    Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
    Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
    Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
    Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
    Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

    So basically anything that could be used by NBs. Somehow Dragon Leap and Radial Sweep are not affected.

    The abilities affected by the change are primarily abilities that had little to no counterplay to them

    Then once again why not leap and sweep?
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

  • Hashtag_
    Hashtag_
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    Cast times are a bad idea. I’m calling it now once these go live the forums will blow up with negative threads because of how they perform open world in lag.
  • Trian94
    Trian94
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    Let's hope they revert cast times so we can have less laggy combat, due to game performance, less stiff and clunky combat and not have the skill gap shrink and skill ceiling lowered.
    PC EU

    Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    zaria wrote: »
    Not that ive gone through and tested every ultimate, but with the few I have used, not really noticed much of a difference tbh.

    Maybe because im used to being screwed over by other cast time abilities so im naturally more careful with cast times and rotation pacing. Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.
    Do you live in US or EU / other?
    EU players has significantly more lag because PTS is in US, US player might well be better off on PTS as its an less used system, gameplay feel be more laggy in huge fights because of server and client slowdowns.

    I'm from EU and have test few ult on PTS and didn't notice cast time on ult too.

    Because only particular ults have been nerfed.


    Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
    Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
    Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
    Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
    Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

    So basically anything that could be used by NBs. Somehow Dragon Leap and Radial Sweep are not affected.

    Thx I'll test that.
    PC - EU

    Characters :
    HL Content :
    Breton - Templar - Healer
    Nord - Warden - Healer
    Breton - Necromancer - Healer

    Mid Content :
    Breton - Dragon Knight - Healer
    Khajiit - Sorcerer - Healer
    Khajiit - Night Blade - Healer

    Story Content :
    Nord - Dragon Knight - Tank/Dps

    My English is far from perfect but I try my best !
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^
  • jonathanb16_ESO
    Even on life i have ofter the problem, that ppl don't get hit by my DB, even tough im really close. Thats just a lagg/desync issue, but with cast time on ult this will be happening way more often.
    Another big problem is that you can't swap in the 0.5s after the ult with fell super unnatural und will probably lead to some nasty death because you can't go to you def bar and block *** like frags or nb bows.
    Another annying thing is that you can no longer rolecancel ults, esspecially if you want just the stun a a def mecnissem. I rolecancel alot.

    Another thing is, ppl overlook is PVE.
    In pve ist super hard and annoying to have to wait what feel like ages after an ult. It compleatly breaks the flow on the dummy rotation and will be even worse in laggy raids. Rotation is everthing and the cast times are just breaking the rotation. They will make it way more annying, not harder, just more annoying.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^ And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same (not even mentioning the fact that you clearly didn't react the dev comment for, say, Lacerate change), then I think I'll just leave you to your agenda.
    Edited by John_Falstaff on July 29, 2019 3:01PM
  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
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    susmitds wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Remove cast times on ultimates.

    Cast time on ults is one of the things, which seems fine on paper but does not work practically in real combat.

    No, it doesn't even work on paper because they already did this with merciless and it made the ability completely worthless, that's not the type of game ESO is.
    Aznarb wrote: »
    zaria wrote: »
    Not that ive gone through and tested every ultimate, but with the few I have used, not really noticed much of a difference tbh.

    Maybe because im used to being screwed over by other cast time abilities so im naturally more careful with cast times and rotation pacing. Right now stampede is *** me over more than anything.
    Do you live in US or EU / other?
    EU players has significantly more lag because PTS is in US, US player might well be better off on PTS as its an less used system, gameplay feel be more laggy in huge fights because of server and client slowdowns.

    I'm from EU and have test few ult on PTS and didn't notice cast time on ult too.


    oh, and have you tried these abilites in Primetime with 200-300 Ping?.
    Edited by Lucky28 on July 29, 2019 3:20PM
    Invictus
  • blkjag
    blkjag
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    Slower game play with the performance issues should make it really fun to play..... they’re killing it
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

    if they're getting deleted by a single ult combo, there wasn't going to be a "fight" in the first place.

    Thats kinda the whole point. That the newbies wont learn anything unless they actually get to fight.
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Go play another MMO if you're looking for slow combat.

    Go play call of duty if you're looking for instagibs.

  • Hashtag_
    Hashtag_
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

    if they're getting deleted by a single ult combo, there wasn't going to be a "fight" in the first place.

    Thats kinda the whole point. That the newbies wont learn anything unless they actually get to fight.
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Go play another MMO if you're looking for slow combat.

    Go play call of duty if you're looking for instagibs.

    Or you know newbies can do just like 98% of the population....join a LFG, learn the game and keeping buffs up that way, slowly ween yourself from zerging and become better at self sustaining.


    Everything shouldn’t be handed to a player just because they’re new. They should learn the game like everyone else had to at some point and learning to counter.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

    if they're getting deleted by a single ult combo, there wasn't going to be a "fight" in the first place.

    Thats kinda the whole point. That the newbies wont learn anything unless they actually get to fight.
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Go play another MMO if you're looking for slow combat.

    Go play call of duty if you're looking for instagibs.

    Or you know newbies can do just like 98% of the population....join a LFG, learn the game and keeping buffs up that way, slowly ween yourself from zerging and become better at self sustaining.


    Everything shouldn’t be handed to a player just because they’re new. They should learn the game like everyone else had to at some point and learning to counter.

    And then you wonder why PvP is so unpopular.

    I mean, this game has what? 10 millions active accounts?

    And I know most of the people in cyrodiil by name.
  • Hashtag_
    Hashtag_
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

    if they're getting deleted by a single ult combo, there wasn't going to be a "fight" in the first place.

    Thats kinda the whole point. That the newbies wont learn anything unless they actually get to fight.
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Go play another MMO if you're looking for slow combat.

    Go play call of duty if you're looking for instagibs.

    Or you know newbies can do just like 98% of the population....join a LFG, learn the game and keeping buffs up that way, slowly ween yourself from zerging and become better at self sustaining.


    Everything shouldn’t be handed to a player just because they’re new. They should learn the game like everyone else had to at some point and learning to counter.

    And then you wonder why PvP is so unpopular.

    I mean, this game has what? 10 millions active accounts?

    And I know most of the people in cyrodiil by name.

    I’d wager this game has less than 1 million total recurring players so don’t come with that account gibberish.

    You have no idea how easy pvp is today and working up to things. Back when imo started ap was harder than ever to gain, you had to get pvp rank 22-23 to even get vigor.

    Literally everything is handed to new players these days. Learning to play the game shouldn’t be handed to them.
  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

    if they're getting deleted by a single ult combo, there wasn't going to be a "fight" in the first place.

    Thats kinda the whole point. That the newbies wont learn anything unless they actually get to fight.
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Go play another MMO if you're looking for slow combat.

    Go play call of duty if you're looking for instagibs.

    No, even without the ult there wasn't going to be a fight, i've fought the people you're talking about, they die in the blink of an eye even without an ult.

    The majority of ESO's life has been about fast paced combat. Changing it now will be detrimental to the remaining playerbase.
    Edited by Lucky28 on July 29, 2019 3:41PM
    Invictus
  • Sharee
    Sharee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

    if they're getting deleted by a single ult combo, there wasn't going to be a "fight" in the first place.

    Thats kinda the whole point. That the newbies wont learn anything unless they actually get to fight.
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Go play another MMO if you're looking for slow combat.

    Go play call of duty if you're looking for instagibs.

    Or you know newbies can do just like 98% of the population....join a LFG, learn the game and keeping buffs up that way, slowly ween yourself from zerging and become better at self sustaining.


    Everything shouldn’t be handed to a player just because they’re new. They should learn the game like everyone else had to at some point and learning to counter.

    And then you wonder why PvP is so unpopular.

    I mean, this game has what? 10 millions active accounts?

    And I know most of the people in cyrodiil by name.

    Literally everything is handed to new players these days. Learning to play the game shouldn’t be handed to them.

    No, it should not. But they also should not get oneshot by animation-cancelled ultimate combos.

    Why do you think meteor has such an obvious advanced warning? Serious question.

  • Hashtag_
    Hashtag_
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

    if they're getting deleted by a single ult combo, there wasn't going to be a "fight" in the first place.

    Thats kinda the whole point. That the newbies wont learn anything unless they actually get to fight.
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Go play another MMO if you're looking for slow combat.

    Go play call of duty if you're looking for instagibs.

    Or you know newbies can do just like 98% of the population....join a LFG, learn the game and keeping buffs up that way, slowly ween yourself from zerging and become better at self sustaining.


    Everything shouldn’t be handed to a player just because they’re new. They should learn the game like everyone else had to at some point and learning to counter.

    And then you wonder why PvP is so unpopular.

    I mean, this game has what? 10 millions active accounts?

    And I know most of the people in cyrodiil by name.

    Literally everything is handed to new players these days. Learning to play the game shouldn’t be handed to them.

    No, it should not. But they also should not get oneshot by animation-cancelled ultimate combos.

    Why do you think meteor has such an obvious advanced warning? Serious question.
    Meteor is such a bad outdated ultimate and you’re comparing apples to oranges when comparing that ultimate considering the designs are completely different.

    New players are going to get bursted by combos with or without ultimates.


    Edited by Hashtag_ on July 29, 2019 3:44PM
  • Sharee
    Sharee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    (ultimates already have good telegraphs on live)

    Not those that are getting the cast times added, for just that reason.

    So you've subtly moved from "newbies should be given a fighting chance without learning to evade ultimates" to "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". Mmkay. I see where you're coming from. ^^

    Nice straw man. I never said newbies should not have to learn how to evade ultimates. What i actually said is that a newbie will learn more if the fight isnt over in the first couple of seconds.

    And i also did not say "those ultimates were OP and deserved a nerf". What i actually said is that they were given cast times because they did not have telegraphs.

    But please, dont let that stop you from putting words into my mouth.

    ...and you've shown those spectacular selective comprehension issues by ignoring the point that evading ultimates is part of the fight. ^^

    For that, there would have to be a fight in the firstplace. If the newbie gets deleted by an animation canceled dawnbreaker right at the start, there is no fight.

    And if you're being intentionally obtuse by trying to depict things as though "...did not have telegraphs" and "deserved a nerf" is the same

    I never used the words "deserved a nerf", that was you, trying to pin a meaning to my words that they never had. Another straw man for the collection.

    if they're getting deleted by a single ult combo, there wasn't going to be a "fight" in the first place.

    Thats kinda the whole point. That the newbies wont learn anything unless they actually get to fight.
    Lucky28 wrote: »
    Go play another MMO if you're looking for slow combat.

    Go play call of duty if you're looking for instagibs.

    Or you know newbies can do just like 98% of the population....join a LFG, learn the game and keeping buffs up that way, slowly ween yourself from zerging and become better at self sustaining.


    Everything shouldn’t be handed to a player just because they’re new. They should learn the game like everyone else had to at some point and learning to counter.

    And then you wonder why PvP is so unpopular.

    I mean, this game has what? 10 millions active accounts?

    And I know most of the people in cyrodiil by name.

    Literally everything is handed to new players these days. Learning to play the game shouldn’t be handed to them.

    No, it should not. But they also should not get oneshot by animation-cancelled ultimate combos.

    Why do you think meteor has such an obvious advanced warning? Serious question.
    Meteor is such a bad outdated ultimate and you’re comparing apples to oranges when comparing that ultimate considering the designs are completely different.

    No. I am comparing one high damage ultimate to another high damage ultimate.

    Since you are not going to answer the question, i will. Meteor has a huge advanced warning to allow for counterplay. It is NOT meant to be a hit without any kind of warning. And so isnt dawnbreaker. Thus, cast time.
    Edited by Sharee on July 29, 2019 3:46PM
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