Pvp vigor

Khenzy

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

Sanguinor2

I´ll just leave this here for People wondering if vigor got a hard buff or not.
Disclaimer: I got this from a discord so I cant say if its pre battle spirit or not (most likely pre battle spirit) and which sets were used.

Insco851

Khenzy wrote: »

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

My concerns exactly.

Waffennacht

Insco851 wrote: »

Khenzy wrote: »

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

My concerns exactly.

I can't help this is all in CP at which point I'm like.... Who gives a bleep?

I would like to see a standard build's tooltips in no CP

Insco851

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I´ll just leave this here for People wondering if vigor got a hard buff or not.
Disclaimer: I got this from a discord so I cant say if its pre battle spirit or not (most likely pre battle spirit) and which sets were used.

^^^^WTF IS THIS UNKILLABLE NONSENSE.

Thank you for again confirming.

“It’s just a burst heal every second”

But what happens when a 5k tick crits.... lordy

Sanguinor2

Insco851 wrote: »

^^^^WTF IS THIS UNKILLABLE NONSENSE.

Thank you for again confirming.

“It’s just a burst heal every second”

But what happens when a 5k tick crits.... lordy

Well as I said in my post we dont know if that screenshot is with battle spirit or if it is in some Kind of completely unrealistic build but yeah it certainly Looks a bit concerning.

Insco851

Waffennacht wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Khenzy wrote: »

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

My concerns exactly.

I can't help this is all in CP at which point I'm like.... Who gives a bleep?

I would like to see a standard build's tooltips in no CP

Plenty of people care. I’d argue at least half of the pvp population are cp players.

Trian94

I think that this tooltip in the screenshot is totally out of context and not realistic. You could probably do it by adding ritual mundus, powered weapons , major mending, vitality etc but that's not a realistic PvP build. If anyone knows more about the 52k vigor tooltip screenshot let me know

Insco851

Trian94 wrote: »

I think that this tooltip in the screenshot is totally out of context and not realistic. You could probably do it by adding ritual mundus, powered weapons , major mending, vitality etc but that's not a realistic PvP build. If anyone knows more about the 52k vigor tooltip screenshot let me know

The issue is all the stuff you can stack on this... even if we get a 25k tool tip. There’s other hots available. Modifiers available. A burst heal from rally that’s also buffed in actual use apparently. Lingering health pots, troll king. It’s gonna be silly.

Sanguinor2

Trian94 wrote: »

I think that this tooltip in the screenshot is totally out of context and not realistic. You could probably do it by adding ritual mundus, powered weapons , major mending, vitality etc but that's not a realistic PvP build. If anyone knows more about the 52k vigor tooltip screenshot let me know

Certainly possible, I´ll get pts download done sometime tomorrow and look at it myself I guess. Other People that are already on pts can double check too.

Trian94

Insco851 wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

I think that this tooltip in the screenshot is totally out of context and not realistic. You could probably do it by adding ritual mundus, powered weapons , major mending, vitality etc but that's not a realistic PvP build. If anyone knows more about the 52k vigor tooltip screenshot let me know

The issue is all the stuff you can stack on this... even if we get a 25k tool tip. There’s other hots available. Modifiers available. A burst heal from rally that’s also buffed in actual use apparently. Lingering health pots, troll king. It’s gonna be silly.

The way you put it it sounds broken. But remember that every dot is getting a damage buff as well, plus medium armour is becoming meta right now so people will be more susceptible to burst damage. Also there's a lot of penetration going on to bypass much of the mitigation coming from resistances. We'll have to see how it plays out.

maxjapank

Vigor is absolutely too strong as a single heal. The buffs that stamina players are getting is so silly compared to the nerfs they are making for Magicka heals. I don't know who is in charge of these combat changes. But whoever it is, they seem to only play Stamina. Good lord.

Khenzy

By the way, I'm seeing some nasty nasty DoT tooltips from Vampire's Bane, Soul Trap, Entropy and others, I'm talking about 20k++ tooltips.

You can also get a 20k tooltip on Rapid Regen.

Maybe these HoT buffs are justified? Or maybe the DoT/HoT scaling has gone way overboard.

GhostofDatthaw

Khenzy wrote: »

By the way, I'm seeing some nasty nasty DoT tooltips from Vampire's Bane, Soul Trap, Entropy and others, I'm talking about 20k++ tooltips.

You can also get a 20k tooltip on Rapid Regen.

Maybe these HoT buffs are justified? Or maybe the DoT/HoT scaling has gone way overboard.

I'm kinda leaning the dot/hot scale is overboard. I hate inflated numbers. Remember when everyone had like 3000 hp? Now everyone has 30000. Sometimes I just feel like if they knock the last number off everything it would make life easier

Durham

Insco851 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Khenzy wrote: »

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

My concerns exactly.

I can't help this is all in CP at which point I'm like.... Who gives a bleep?

I would like to see a standard build's tooltips in no CP

Plenty of people care. I’d argue at least half of the pvp population are cp players.

Actually most pvp players are CP. None CP is dead on all other platforms except PC. Even there it dwarfs in comparison to CP. Battlegrounds are non cp I understand that.

Insco851

Durham wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Khenzy wrote: »

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

My concerns exactly.

I can't help this is all in CP at which point I'm like.... Who gives a bleep?

I would like to see a standard build's tooltips in no CP

Plenty of people care. I’d argue at least half of the pvp population are cp players.

Actually most pvp players are CP. None CP is dead on all other platforms except PC. Even there it dwarfs in comparison to CP. Battlegrounds are non cp I understand that.

Yea I was giving the benefit of BG players.

NuarBlack

Durham wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Khenzy wrote: »

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

My concerns exactly.

I can't help this is all in CP at which point I'm like.... Who gives a bleep?

I would like to see a standard build's tooltips in no CP

Plenty of people care. I’d argue at least half of the pvp population are cp players.

Actually most pvp players are CP. None CP is dead on all other platforms except PC. Even there it dwarfs in comparison to CP. Battlegrounds are non cp I understand that.

uh what? Cyro zerglings don't count as pvpers. Ps4 BG ques are instant so I'd say real non cp pvp is very much a significant population. One full campaign doesn't count for as much as you think. Cyro is hot garbage so don't take the fact that the non cp isn't as populated to mean anything other than BGs are just the way better mode.

puupaa

on live:

Forward momentum ticks for 1053 every 2 seconds

Resolving Vigor ticks for 2176 every 1 second (30% stronger than base morph so base Vigor ticks for 1674)

= 2702 hp/s

on pts:

1674 * 1.85

= 3096 hp/s


So running FM and RV, we get 15% stronger hot when Vigor is ticking, nothing when it's not.

Insco851

puupaa wrote: »

on live:

Forward momentum ticks for 1053 every 2 seconds

Resolving Vigor ticks for 2176 every 1 second (30% stronger than base morph so base Vigor ticks for 1674)

= 2702 hp/s

on pts:

1674 * 1.85

= 3096 hp/s


So running FM and RV, we get 15% stronger hot when Vigor is ticking, nothing when it's not.

Fair point.

However vigor took a cost reduction to where if you run it front bar- there’s little reason to not cast it on cooldown unless you are in a kill potential moment against an opponent.

Khenzy

Insco851 wrote: »

puupaa wrote: »

on live:

Forward momentum ticks for 1053 every 2 seconds

Resolving Vigor ticks for 2176 every 1 second (30% stronger than base morph so base Vigor ticks for 1674)

= 2702 hp/s

on pts:

1674 * 1.85

= 3096 hp/s


So running FM and RV, we get 15% stronger hot when Vigor is ticking, nothing when it's not.

Fair point.

However vigor took a cost reduction to where if you run it front bar- there’s little reason to not cast it on cooldown unless you are in a kill potential moment against an opponent.

Indeed. Having VIgor on mainbar and have 100% uptime on it should be advisable. Unless you have some other sources of healing such as Blood Craze, lingering potion or high health regen, a well timed CC-->Burst could be very punishing as Momentum heal ticks will no longer be there and stam toons don't usually use a damage shield. Also, magicka DoTs might be more prevalent now, reducing the effectiveness of the newely buffed Vigor.

Insco851

Khenzy wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

puupaa wrote: »

on live:

Forward momentum ticks for 1053 every 2 seconds

Resolving Vigor ticks for 2176 every 1 second (30% stronger than base morph so base Vigor ticks for 1674)

= 2702 hp/s

on pts:

1674 * 1.85

= 3096 hp/s


So running FM and RV, we get 15% stronger hot when Vigor is ticking, nothing when it's not.

Fair point.

However vigor took a cost reduction to where if you run it front bar- there’s little reason to not cast it on cooldown unless you are in a kill potential moment against an opponent.

Indeed. Having VIgor on mainbar and have 100% uptime on it should be advisable. Unless you have some other sources of healing such as Blood Craze, lingering potion or high health regen, a well timed CC-->Burst could be very punishing as Momentum heal ticks will no longer be there and stam toons don't usually use a damage shield. Also, magicka DoTs might be more prevalent now, reducing the effectiveness of the newely buffed Vigor.

With the hots you can still stack on it- it’s gonna be very very strong. 3.5-4K per sec with just vigor- reduced defile sources. Mending, vitality, lingering health... ehhhh

Thraben

People are making up those inflated tooltipps because they have an agenda.

puupaa wrote: »

on live:

Forward momentum ticks for 1053 every 2 seconds

Resolving Vigor ticks for 2176 every 1 second (30% stronger than base morph so base Vigor ticks for 1674)

= 2702 hp/s

on pts:

1674 * 1.85

= 3096 hp/s


So running FM and RV, we get 15% stronger hot when Vigor is ticking, nothing when it's not.

Thank your for the calculation. Far too many "feels" here and far too few facts.

Imryll

Ankael07 wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed

Rapid Regen is the same with backup shields available.

Yeah but you needed to equip resto staff for that and magicka players are designed to have better heals. When you give near equal amount of healing to stamina builds things go out of balance

Well, they wouldn't if they give mag the same amount of damage ...

Davadin

Insco851 wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I´ll just leave this here for People wondering if vigor got a hard buff or not.
Disclaimer: I got this from a discord so I cant say if its pre battle spirit or not (most likely pre battle spirit) and which sets were used.

^^^^WTF IS THIS UNKILLABLE NONSENSE.

Thank you for again confirming.

“It’s just a burst heal every second”

But what happens when a 5k tick crits.... lordy

50k for 5sec is a 10k tick.


if it crits?

when it crits?



lol

Davadin

NuarBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Khenzy wrote: »

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

My concerns exactly.

I can't help this is all in CP at which point I'm like.... Who gives a bleep?

I would like to see a standard build's tooltips in no CP

Plenty of people care. I’d argue at least half of the pvp population are cp players.

Actually most pvp players are CP. None CP is dead on all other platforms except PC. Even there it dwarfs in comparison to CP. Battlegrounds are non cp I understand that.

uh what? Cyro zerglings don't count as pvpers. Ps4 BG ques are instant so I'd say real non cp pvp is very much a significant population. One full campaign doesn't count for as much as you think. Cyro is hot garbage so don't take the fact that the non cp isn't as populated to mean anything other than BGs are just the way better mode.

when sometimes in PC i can wait for a few minutes for a BG, but Kaalgrontid is effectively pop-lock every single night, garbage or not, you know Cyro population is multiplies of all that plays BG.

puupaa wrote: »

on live:

Forward momentum ticks for 1053 every 2 seconds

Resolving Vigor ticks for 2176 every 1 second (30% stronger than base morph so base Vigor ticks for 1674)

= 2702 hp/s

on pts:

1674 * 1.85

= 3096 hp/s


So running FM and RV, we get 15% stronger hot when Vigor is ticking, nothing when it's not.

whats FM RV? I'm roughly around 18k tooltip for 5sec so 3k+ per tick in buffed Cyro.

PTS still downloading lol will check later tonight.

SodanTok

So:

1. They buffed all single target dots you cannot block or dodge but you can shield
2. They removed rally/momentum HoT
3. They buffed Vigor on caster, nerfed stacking
4. They gave magicka vigor

How can anyone see this as win situation for stamina. There is way too many changes to be able to go on forum day after PTS pach and say who won or lost in dynamic PVP environment that is totally lacking on PTS before any meta formed yet.

Insco851

Davadin wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I´ll just leave this here for People wondering if vigor got a hard buff or not.
Disclaimer: I got this from a discord so I cant say if its pre battle spirit or not (most likely pre battle spirit) and which sets were used.

^^^^WTF IS THIS UNKILLABLE NONSENSE.

Thank you for again confirming.

“It’s just a burst heal every second”

But what happens when a 5k tick crits.... lordy

50k for 5sec is a 10k tick.


if it crits?

when it crits?



lol

I was accounting for it being cut in half for pvp

Crixus8000

Trian94 wrote: »

I think that this tooltip in the screenshot is totally out of context and not realistic. You could probably do it by adding ritual mundus, powered weapons , major mending, vitality etc but that's not a realistic PvP build. If anyone knows more about the 52k vigor tooltip screenshot let me know

Your right, people always inflate the tooltips every patch on things and make it look broken. My vigor has 22k tooltip with 5k weapon damage and 30k stamina plus some healing recieved from troll kill.

This will be a medium armor meta where heals will do less than resists anyway, everyone will have huge burst, especially with the new gamebreaking 2h ult. A huge vigor tooltip through having continuous, stacking major mending and vitality and being near a keep will do little when you get bursted 100-0 in one combo.

Also it's bugged atm, in no cp my vigor has a 20k tooltip but only ticks for 1.7k

Durham

NuarBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Khenzy wrote: »

I'm in PTS. Can confirm. Resolving Vigor is nuts. 21 to 25k tooltips on average, and it can get significantly higher.
Rally is also really good as the base heal is stronger than before and it gets stronger every second so you can use it sooner and more often for some nice and decent direct heals.
That and the new shuffle, stamina toons are in for a treat next patch.


The Hidden Blade gap closer is meh, it takes two actions even if off the global CD.
I still don't like Dizzing Swing, but you can't deny it's a strong skill.

Edit:
I was thnking.

What about some bleed based Dragon Knight with Corrosive Armor/Onslought with Vigor, Rally, Ataeum food with health recovery+Troll King+Lingering health potions+Cauterize+Blood Craze? Immortal?

My concerns exactly.

I can't help this is all in CP at which point I'm like.... Who gives a bleep?

I would like to see a standard build's tooltips in no CP

Plenty of people care. I’d argue at least half of the pvp population are cp players.

Actually most pvp players are CP. None CP is dead on all other platforms except PC. Even there it dwarfs in comparison to CP. Battlegrounds are non cp I understand that.

uh what? Cyro zerglings don't count as pvpers. Ps4 BG ques are instant so I'd say real non cp pvp is very much a significant population. One full campaign doesn't count for as much as you think. Cyro is hot garbage so don't take the fact that the non cp isn't as populated to mean anything other than BGs are just the way better mode.

Lol whatever I have played both by the way I don't run in zergs. Your statements are generalized at best. There are crap ton of people that solo in cryodiil. Having a small group of experienced players taking out 2 to 3 times its own numbers it quite gratifying. BGs have been on and off for sometime espeacially on PC. 2 Qs in 45 mins is broke. I personally do not like non CP mainly because the game is balanced around CP atm.

Rianai

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Also it's bugged atm, in no cp my vigor has a 20k tooltip but only ticks for 1.7k

1,7k ticks seem about right with a 20k tooltip when considering battlespirit. (20k*0,5 /6 = ~1,66k per tick)
And i don't think burst will be stronger. Medium builds can be just as tanky as heavy builds by using defense sets and protective traits (see light armor builds) and the only burst ability that got buffed is the 2h ult and even there the initial dmg is the same and the added pen will be best utilized by pre stacking DoTs. If the cast time on many ults go live that's actually a nerf to burst.

I might be wrong because i haven't tested anything so far, but from the looks of it, the meta might develop into an arms race between HoT and DoT stacking - not something i'm looking forward to.