Pvp vigor

GhostofDatthaw

So I don't Stam at all, I'm a pure mag player. I see a lot of people saying vigor is op buffed now. Perhaps in duels, yes, it ticks faster for more. But I can't help but look that it only effects you, the other morph has slower ticks but is now aoe.

I see how solo play and duelers are gonna like this change. But it my eyes this is a really huge nerf to the small scale stam squads who have been stackin vigor for years. That was always low key op, and now in my eyes has been nerfed.

Am I wrong with this line of thinking?

Insco851

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed. There were already classes that could survive off vigor ticks+crits. Stam dk for example with major mending on demand? Yeaaaa lets add 85% more to that. Mmk

nsmurfer

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed

Rapid Regen is the same with backup shields available.

Insco851

nsmurfer wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed

Rapid Regen is the same with backup shields available.

Rapid wasn’t on the same level of vigor previously. And if it’s on the level of +85% vigor now- it’ll also need some nerfs

GhostofDatthaw

You could never stack rapid regeneration either which is what made vigor so much better

Insco851

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

You could never stack rapid regeneration either which is what made vigor so much better

You could stack rapid and the other morph tho

GhostofDatthaw

Insco851 wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

You could never stack rapid regeneration either which is what made vigor so much better

You could stack rapid and the other morph tho

Yeah buy you couldn't have like 8 regens ticking on you like you could vigors

Ankael07

nsmurfer wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed

Rapid Regen is the same with backup shields available.

Yeah but you needed to equip resto staff for that and magicka players are designed to have better heals. When you give near equal amount of healing to stamina builds things go out of balance

Davadin

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

So I don't Stam at all, I'm a pure mag player. I see a lot of people saying vigor is op buffed now. Perhaps in duels, yes, it ticks faster for more. But I can't help but look that it only effects you, the other morph has slower ticks but is now aoe.

I see how solo play and duelers are gonna like this change. But it my eyes this is a really huge nerf to the small scale stam squads who have been stackin vigor for years. That was always low key op, and now in my eyes has been nerfed.

Am I wrong with this line of thinking?

you are not.

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed. There were already classes that could survive off vigor ticks+crits. Stam dk for example with major mending on demand? Yeaaaa lets add 85% more to that. Mmk

It may not be so bad. For many, it's just "free" health as it comes from ur mates. Now, it's going to cost a fair chunk of stamina and 1 extra GCD.

I wouldn't nerf until I see them.

I mean come on, DoT getting a buff and healers getting a nerf. I, a solo/small group/zerg player, would need ALL the heal I can get....

Vapirko

It definitely sounds pretty strong. PTS testing should help us decide what to do next. But keep in mind there are A LOT of big changes this patch. Interactions between changes will occur that we won’t really understand until they are played with. Best thing you can do rn is download PTS and get on and test it.

Insco851

Davadin wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

So I don't Stam at all, I'm a pure mag player. I see a lot of people saying vigor is op buffed now. Perhaps in duels, yes, it ticks faster for more. But I can't help but look that it only effects you, the other morph has slower ticks but is now aoe.

I see how solo play and duelers are gonna like this change. But it my eyes this is a really huge nerf to the small scale stam squads who have been stackin vigor for years. That was always low key op, and now in my eyes has been nerfed.

Am I wrong with this line of thinking?

you are not.

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed. There were already classes that could survive off vigor ticks+crits. Stam dk for example with major mending on demand? Yeaaaa lets add 85% more to that. Mmk

It may not be so bad. For many, it's just "free" health as it comes from ur mates. Now, it's going to cost a fair chunk of stamina and 1 extra GCD.

I wouldn't nerf until I see them.

I mean come on, DoT getting a buff and healers getting a nerf. I, a solo/small group/zerg player, would need ALL the heal I can get....

The cost even got reduced. To something like low 2k~

With healing modifiers these ticks are gonna be crazy strong. Add in the chance to keep it up more often...

There’s already successful builds that have 18-20k vigor tool tips. 2k+ per second. Not including crits. 33-37k tool tips coming? 3.3k per second? Not including crits. And Cheap? Broken.

Not including major mending, major vitality. Minor vitality. Cp modifiers.... uhhh

Waffennacht

Outside of the rare Stam healers I see only necessary changes to vigor

Davadin

Insco851 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

So I don't Stam at all, I'm a pure mag player. I see a lot of people saying vigor is op buffed now. Perhaps in duels, yes, it ticks faster for more. But I can't help but look that it only effects you, the other morph has slower ticks but is now aoe.

I see how solo play and duelers are gonna like this change. But it my eyes this is a really huge nerf to the small scale stam squads who have been stackin vigor for years. That was always low key op, and now in my eyes has been nerfed.

Am I wrong with this line of thinking?

you are not.

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed. There were already classes that could survive off vigor ticks+crits. Stam dk for example with major mending on demand? Yeaaaa lets add 85% more to that. Mmk

It may not be so bad. For many, it's just "free" health as it comes from ur mates. Now, it's going to cost a fair chunk of stamina and 1 extra GCD.

I wouldn't nerf until I see them.

I mean come on, DoT getting a buff and healers getting a nerf. I, a solo/small group/zerg player, would need ALL the heal I can get....

The cost even got reduced. To something like low 2k~

With healing modifiers these ticks are gonna be crazy strong. Add in the chance to keep it up more often...

There’s already successful builds that have 18-20k vigor tool tips. 2k+ per second. Not including crits. 33-37k tool tips coming? 3.3k per second? Not including crits. And Cheap? Broken.

Not including major mending, major vitality. Minor vitality. Cp modifiers.... uhhh

where are you getting these 20k vigor tooltips? in CP PvP?

Insco851

Waffennacht wrote: »

Outside of the rare Stam healers I see only necessary changes to vigor

High dmg high burst Stam builds with 4K healing ticks per second with 75%+ uptime? Good luck killing these guys if vigor is up. A different form of “tank” meta coming if these healing changes continue. There’s “burst” heals that get 1-2k more per cast... lol tell me I’m missing something?

Lets add in health recovery!

Also... major defile has been nerfed. Fewer skills to get it from.

Waffennacht

Insco851 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Outside of the rare Stam healers I see only necessary changes to vigor

High dmg high burst Stam builds with 4K healing ticks per second with 75%+ uptime? Good luck killing these guys if vigor is up. A different form of “tank” meta coming if these healing changes continue. There’s “burst” heals that get 1-2k more per cast... lol tell me I’m missing something?

Lets add in health recovery!

Also... major defile has been nerfed. Fewer skills to get it from.

I've been getting/got way more from a Stam team stacking vigors than the buff.

Now it's way more solo friendly and less Zerg friendly. I find that good.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Outside of the rare Stam healers I see only necessary changes to vigor

High dmg high burst Stam builds with 4K healing ticks per second with 75%+ uptime? Good luck killing these guys if vigor is up. A different form of “tank” meta coming if these healing changes continue. There’s “burst” heals that get 1-2k more per cast... lol tell me I’m missing something?

Lets add in health recovery!

Also... major defile has been nerfed. Fewer skills to get it from.

I've been getting/got way more from a Stam team stacking vigors than the buff.

Now it's way more solo friendly and less Zerg friendly. I find that good.

Agree,also side note rally lost the healing over time so i don't think new vigor is that good vs live where you get vigor+rally and also can heal friendly target with it.

Time will tell if it's that good or not and maybe they are trying to push for more diversity in pvp instead of everyone(more or less)running with a 2h.

Insco851

Waffennacht wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Outside of the rare Stam healers I see only necessary changes to vigor

High dmg high burst Stam builds with 4K healing ticks per second with 75%+ uptime? Good luck killing these guys if vigor is up. A different form of “tank” meta coming if these healing changes continue. There’s “burst” heals that get 1-2k more per cast... lol tell me I’m missing something?

Lets add in health recovery!

Also... major defile has been nerfed. Fewer skills to get it from.

I've been getting/got way more from a Stam team stacking vigors than the buff.

Now it's way more solo friendly and less Zerg friendly. I find that good.

Should have just minimized how many vigor stacks were possible then. A single player now has the heals of 2.

Insco851

Davadin wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

So I don't Stam at all, I'm a pure mag player. I see a lot of people saying vigor is op buffed now. Perhaps in duels, yes, it ticks faster for more. But I can't help but look that it only effects you, the other morph has slower ticks but is now aoe.

I see how solo play and duelers are gonna like this change. But it my eyes this is a really huge nerf to the small scale stam squads who have been stackin vigor for years. That was always low key op, and now in my eyes has been nerfed.

Am I wrong with this line of thinking?

you are not.

Insco851 wrote: »

Considering each Stam class in that squad now has a +85% vigor- not as much need to stack em. It’ll need nerfed. There were already classes that could survive off vigor ticks+crits. Stam dk for example with major mending on demand? Yeaaaa lets add 85% more to that. Mmk

It may not be so bad. For many, it's just "free" health as it comes from ur mates. Now, it's going to cost a fair chunk of stamina and 1 extra GCD.

I wouldn't nerf until I see them.

I mean come on, DoT getting a buff and healers getting a nerf. I, a solo/small group/zerg player, would need ALL the heal I can get....

The cost even got reduced. To something like low 2k~

With healing modifiers these ticks are gonna be crazy strong. Add in the chance to keep it up more often...

There’s already successful builds that have 18-20k vigor tool tips. 2k+ per second. Not including crits. 33-37k tool tips coming? 3.3k per second? Not including crits. And Cheap? Broken.

Not including major mending, major vitality. Minor vitality. Cp modifiers.... uhhh

where are you getting these 20k vigor tooltips? in CP PvP?

Yes and I always speak from a CP perspective ftr.

Aedaryl

Is someone on PTS can confirm or not if resolving vigor got a 85% buff or a 15% nerf please?

Insco851

Aedaryl wrote: »

Is someone on PTS can confirm or not if resolving vigor got a 85% buff or a 15% nerf please?

Not on the pts but:

Vigor: Adhered this ability to our single target HoT standards.
Vigor and Resolving Vigor now only heal the caster.
Increased the duration to 10 seconds from 5 seconds, but decreased the tick frequency to 2 seconds from 1 second.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 85%.
Reduced the cost to 2295 from 3511.


Sure reads like a buff.

Baconlad

Same amount of tics over 10 seconds. But they didn't double the tic healing...so over two seconds you are taking 15% less on that heal than you did last patch over 2 seconds...plus less opportunity to crit over ten seconds compared to last...only buff I see for it is HUGE stamina cost decrease over 10 seconds. Not how you guys are reading this as a buff...this is a BIG nerf to stamina healing...*YUGE* nerf

Baconlad

Basically what I'm seeing

Last patch over ten seconds, random numbers 1k a second equals 7k stamina cost and 10k healing (two casts). Plus AOE portion

This patch over ten seconds 1.85k every two seconds equals 2.2k stam cost and 9.25k healing...this is not a buff...

When you include the two hander hot removal...this is going to be bad for solo stam toons. Real bad.

I tear all but the best stamina medium users a new *** in current CP campaign on my magplar. This patch the only thing that will save them is building for absolute glass and burst and catching me on a mistake...if I dont *** up you are not surviving unless you run, if you dont *** up and dont run you dead...

Baconlad

Funny how the massive nerfs everyone else got is almost like my magplar got OP status overnight. I already feel incredibly hard to deal with, now it's going to be ***. Can't CC break my total dark any more, GL bursting through my 18k a second tooltip living dark...dont even need honor the dead anymore...this is bad for you guys

Roflmao...these are healing tooltip values
Living death: 9k+ every time you hit me every .5 seconds
Extended ritual: 4-6k every two seconds
Purifying light: 3-4k every two seconds.

All this equals: tooltip values of 21.5k-23k a second all in passive healing...

At this point they should just remove eclipse due to clumsiness and over poweredness completely. Replace with something else that's not damage oriented, magplar have too many damage oriented skills already, give us a Dawn's wrath tanking tool for PvE or a support buff for groups.

Insco851

Baconlad wrote: »

Basically what I'm seeing

Last patch over ten seconds, random numbers 1k a second equals 7k stamina cost and 10k healing (two casts). Plus AOE portion

This patch over ten seconds 1.85k every two seconds equals 2.2k stam cost and 9.25k healing...this is not a buff...

When you include the two hander hot removal...this is going to be bad for solo stam toons. Real bad.

I tear all but the best stamina medium users a new *** in current CP campaign on my magplar. This patch the only thing that will save them is building for absolute glass and burst and catching me on a mistake...if I dont *** up you are not surviving unless you run, if you dont *** up and dont run you dead...

Resolving is still 5 seconds. At 1.85

Aedaryl

Insco851 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Is someone on PTS can confirm or not if resolving vigor got a 85% buff or a 15% nerf please?

Not on the pts but:

Vigor: Adhered this ability to our single target HoT standards.
Vigor and Resolving Vigor now only heal the caster.
Increased the duration to 10 seconds from 5 seconds, but decreased the tick frequency to 2 seconds from 1 second.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 85%.
Reduced the cost to 2295 from 3511.


Sure reads like a buff.

Don't trust ZoS, test yourself.

I hope for this game balance that resolving tick every have half duration ticking every second but the with the half heal, so it would result in a 15% nerf.

That's why someone on PTS need to tell us with a little screen

likecats

Baconlad wrote: »

Same amount of tics over 10 seconds. But they didn't double the tic healing...so over two seconds you are taking 15% less on that heal than you did last patch over 2 seconds...plus less opportunity to crit over ten seconds compared to last...only buff I see for it is HUGE stamina cost decrease over 10 seconds. Not how you guys are reading this as a buff...this is a BIG nerf to stamina healing...*YUGE* nerf

The guy misposted the patch notes.

The base morph got double the duration with 85% buff. (this is what you interpreted which is a net nerf)
Resolving vigor brings it down back to 5 seconds, with double the frequency in ticks.
So it is basically an 85% buff for resolving vigor morph.

Trian94

According to the notes resolving vigor should do the same healing as the base morph and echoing. It should be a buff

Baconlad

Oh ok @likecats

I'm not one for enjoying nerfs...my magplar has been nerfed consistently for YEARS and has turned into the meme for nerfs on classes...

That's a good thing then I think. Solo stam toons will be much happier. They are also taking hits to some of the best stam sets as well. I dont think the healing is going to be THAT much different. Time will tell thanks for clarifying

DemonDruaga

Doesn't forward momentum loose its hot?
You gotta consider this too.
Till now it was 2 hots aviable to stamina, now its just vigor

likecats

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Doesn't forward momentum loose its hot?
You gotta consider this too.
Till now it was 2 hots aviable to stamina, now its just vigor

The hot was not equivalent to 85% of a vigor tick. It was more like 25%-30%.

Waffennacht

Baconlad wrote: »

Funny how the massive nerfs everyone else got is almost like my magplar got OP status overnight. I already feel incredibly hard to deal with, now it's going to be ***. Can't CC break my total dark any more, GL bursting through my 18k a second tooltip living dark...dont even need honor the dead anymore...this is bad for you guys

Roflmao...these are healing tooltip values
Living death: 9k+ every time you hit me every .5 seconds
Extended ritual: 4-6k every two seconds
Purifying light: 3-4k every two seconds.

All this equals: tooltip values of 21.5k-23k a second all in passive healing...

At this point they should just remove eclipse due to clumsiness and over poweredness completely. Replace with something else that's not damage oriented, magplar have too many damage oriented skills already, give us a Dawn's wrath tanking tool for PvE or a support buff for groups.

But I really like this change. It really incentives running with a purge of sorts.

Warden, Templar, Necro have native access; the others will have to either roll with curse eater, wyrd tree, or purge - I don't see just dealing with it though lol.

It's kinda what I hoped Templars would get; here is to hoping it makes it through the PTS gauntlet!