Permanent Eclipse Without Counter

BrokenGameMechanics

I don't understand the change to Eclipse at all. Unless your class has a purge you are helpless. So my stamden battles a templar who casts Eclipse on me every 4 secs. Now effectively I permanently can't attack him at all, meanwhile, they can attack freely. This is way way to over powered. It makes so little sense I must be missing something. What?

paulsimonps

Its not permanent, they can't apply it to you if you are CC immune. And I would assume that any DOT that doesn't have an initial Direct damage component would still work to attack them with, say channels or AoE DoTs.

jaysins

Yeah, not being able to cc break it and use any direct damage abilities for four seconds sounds really bad. Will test but based on the wording it sounds grossly overtuned.

x48rph

Oh, so I can attack them with the dots that just got nerfed......

BrokenGameMechanics

paulsimonps wrote: »

Its not permanent, they can't apply it to you if you are CC immune. And I would assume that any DOT that doesn't have an initial Direct damage component would still work to attack them with, say channels or AoE DoTs.

Don't understand. CC immunity is I think 4 secs the same as the duration of Eclipse, so what prevents them from casting Eclipse every 4 secs in the rotation? In addition even if they couldn't recast it, all the have to do at the start of the 1v1 is vast it on me and I cannot attack for 4 secs without any counter. Doesn't make sense.

IronWooshu

Yes Eclipse looks absolutely broken.

paulsimonps

Isn't CC immunity 10s? Then apply Single Target DoTs and burst between the Immunities and Heal up during the eclipses effect? Or heavy attack with a lightning or resto staff while they have it active.

TheNightflame

look, you CAN still attack. you'll just be ccd after

TheNightflame

how is that different from an on demand cc, that just happens instantly? vs one that happens after you do direct damage.

Royaji

paulsimonps wrote: »

Its not permanent, they can't apply it to you if you are CC immune. And I would assume that any DOT that doesn't have an initial Direct damage component would still work to attack them with, say channels or AoE DoTs.

The notes sound like it is no longer considered a CC at all?

You can be immune to the immobilise and stun on second and third attack, sure. But constant damage from the morph and the potential of having a snare, soft CC and hard CC for the cost of one GCD definitely sounds like too much.

And most DoTs do have direct damage component at the beginning so you will be killing that templar with ground AoEs and spin2win?

IronWooshu

paulsimonps wrote: »

Isn't CC immunity 10s? Then apply Single Target DoTs and burst between the Immunities and Heal up during the eclipses effect? Or heavy attack with a lightning or resto staff while they have it active.

That's so brutal, so your solution is to just sit and block for 4 seconds while the Templar attacks you waiting for your opening to get burst off knowing full well the Templar will just heal it off while you have to wait another 4 seconds for your chance to do it again given he hasnt killed you yet.

BrokenGameMechanics

paulsimonps wrote: »

Isn't CC immunity 10s? Then apply Single Target DoTs and burst between the Immunities and Heal up during the eclipses effect? Or heavy attack with a lightning or resto staff while they have it active.

Single target dots are just purged by the templar. CC immunity is way less then 10 secs. I think it is 3 or 4. As mentioned many dots are hybrid with a direct component. I'm a stamden so no staffs and heavy/lights are direct and therefore shutdown.

Looking at my current skill bar I have exactly 1 skill slotted that is a dot aoe that the templar can ignore or just walk out of. My stamden is permanently shutdown and cannot attack. It is even worse when you look at the Eclipse morphs.

ecru

Yeah I have major problems with this change. Templars are already basically the bane of anyone who wants to move normally in a BG or pvp in general with ritual being a gigantic, permanent 30% aoe snare in every BG that ensures you are snared the entire duration you're in combat in proximity to a Templar, but now we're giving them.. another 40% snare, an immobilize, then a stun, in one ability? wtf is going on here?

Seriously, look at what this ability does.

clipse: Reworked this ability and its morphs so you will now envelop your target in a sphere of darkness for 4 seconds, which harms them anytime they use a Direct Damage attack.

Their first attack causes the sphere to hinder them, reducing their Movement Speed by 30% for 4 seconds.
Their second attack causes the sphere to entangle them, immobilizing them for 3 seconds.
Their third attack causes the sphere to smother them, stunning them for 3 seconds.
These effect can only occur once every second.
Note that the sphere can no longer be CC broken early, but can still be cleansed.

It does damage for the duration. It snares. It roots. Then it stuns. ????? wtf?????

Fossilize does a negligible amount of damage, stuns, and roots, for the same cost. Can I get a snare on it too? How about 700% more damage? How about the whole thing being backloaded to line up with burst easier?

Do we not have enough snares in the game already? Is a 30% gigantic 24 second ground aoe snare from a ritual, a 70% snare from sweep/jabs, a 40% snare from vampire's bane, a stun/gap closer from toppling charge, and a ranged stun from javelin not enough? Three snares and two stuns aren't enough? We need a fourth snare and a third stun and a root, I guess? And it needs to be backloaded? Wtf are we doing putting snares and stuns on basically every ability when there's already too much CC in the game as it is? Why are we putting anyone in a position where, if they're facing a certain class, they will be permanently snared the entire *** time, and potentially rooted and stunned nearly immediately after cc immunity wears off? Who finds this fun?

When making these adjustments it's important to also ask how the gameplay experience of someone playing against these types of overloaded abilities feels. Does it feel fair? Is it fun? Is it enjoyable? Clearly the answer in this case is going to be a resounding no because no one enjoys being permanently snared, rooted, and stunned on cooldown when they're trying to play the game. Why the love affair/obsession with more and more CC ZOS? Even the most inconsequential NPCs have ridiculous 70% snares and will chain stun you. It sucks. It ain't fun.

TheNightflame

templars want to control you in their house

Juhasow

x48rph wrote: »

Oh, so I can attack them with the dots that just got nerfed......

Single target DoTs got buffed mostly.

jcm2606

Just gonna leave this here...

The problem is not killing the Templar, the problem is killing literally anybody with this on you. Read my comment again, Eclipse reflects any and all direct damage, regardless of whether you're attacking the caster, another Templar, or some random ass DK who decided to chase you as you're running away waiting for it to end naturally.

This shuts down literally everybody to varying degrees, when attacking anybody. Imagine if DK reflect was applied to you, such that any time you cast a projectile at anybody, not just the DK, it was reflected back at you. Now imagine that same reflect was for all direct damage.

That's basically what this new Eclipse is. A global unbreakable direct damage reflect mechanic, with an added snare, root and stun for good measure. Yep, totally balanced.

leepalmer95

Oh yeah its horridly broken and is one of those changes where i wonder if I play the same game as them.

leepalmer95

Juhasow wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

Oh, so I can attack them with the dots that just got nerfed......

Single target DoTs got buffed mostly.

Yeah but they all have direct dmg as well.

Minno

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

leepalmer95

TheNightflame wrote: »

how is that different from an on demand cc, that just happens instantly? vs one that happens after you do direct damage.

I get cc'd. I break free.

I get cc'd Im forced to not attack for 4s otherwise I get reflected, snared, rooted and stunned lmao.


4s. Of basically losing the ability to attack.

leepalmer95

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

How are you even defending this, 4s of just sitting there is just stupid.


Templars have minor protection and cleanse for proactive defence.

Minno

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

How are you even defending this, 4s of just sitting there is just stupid.


Templars have minor protection and cleanse for proactive defence.

Neither of those are proactive lol. And in many cases neither is eclipse. It requires a target to still perform a function and a specific proc.

You are just a terrible player.

leepalmer95

Minno wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

How are you even defending this, 4s of just sitting there is just stupid.


Templars have minor protection and cleanse for proactive defence.

Neither of those are proactive lol. And in many cases neither is eclipse. It requires a target to still perform a function and a specific proc.

You are just a terrible player.

Ahh yeah i'm terrible for calling out such a grossly OP designed skill lmao.

Imagine calling someone terrible but then defending this skill, amazing.

Deep_01

This is a scary change. Atleast remove the "these effects can occur only once every second". Would be able to force shock and morphs to remove it.

Juhasow

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

Oh, so I can attack them with the dots that just got nerfed......

Single target DoTs got buffed mostly.

Yeah but they all have direct dmg as well.

Oblivions Foe+Soul trap

Or entropy.

Minno

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

How are you even defending this, 4s of just sitting there is just stupid.


Templars have minor protection and cleanse for proactive defence.

Neither of those are proactive lol. And in many cases neither is eclipse. It requires a target to still perform a function and a specific proc.

You are just a terrible player.

Ahh yeah i'm terrible for calling out such a grossly OP designed skill lmao.

Imagine calling someone terrible but then defending this skill, amazing.

Lol

ecru

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

What does "proactive defense" mean? You're already permanently snaring anyone that you're pvping against whether you're stam or mag because you're guaranteed to have a ritual down that makes them slower than you even when they're sprinting because of the way movement speed is calculated, a 70% snare relatively often on top of that from sweep/jabs, or a 40% snare from Vampie's Bane for a short period after you cast it. Being able to kite almost anyone any time you want because they're permanently snared isn't "proactive defense"? You can instantly mitigate all direct incoming melee damage by just running away unless you're snared yourself because you're almost always moving faster than your opponents. Apparently that isn't enough and you need a fourth snare and an immobilize and a backloaded stun to survive, I guess.

There is no class better at kiting multiple people than a Templar (including Sorc) solely because of ritual and now we're giving them another snare, an immobilize, and a stun that they can put on anyone that prevents anyone from using any direct damaging abilities or else they're.. snared again, and immobilized, and then stunned, all while taking damage. The group utility of a large ground aoe that removes debuffs off of the caster, snares everyone inside of it, heals, does damage, and provides your teammates with the best synergy in the game which heals them to full and removes debuffs off of them wasn't enough. That giant snaring ground aoe's heal was also just increased by 95% and it'll heal for as much as a tick of Vigor too. Clearly extended ritual just isn't enough and templars needed more cc and group utility, or something.

I have to be honest, as someone who plays a dk in pvp, I'm feeling like my abilities just don't do enough. Where's my giant circle that heals everyone for half of what vigor heals for (for 18 seconds), snares everyone inside of it, gives me minor mending, removes debuffs off of me, and gives my teammates a synergy that gives them resources and removes debuffs off of them and heals them to full. ZOS? Can I get something like that?

wtf is going on with this game

Two templars dropping two rituals will basically be mean permanent vigor on everyone aside from everything else that insanely overloaded ability provides. After giving that to templars in the next patch, who thought to themselves, "you know what, they need an ability that does damage, snares, roots, and stuns too".

???????????????????

?????????????????????????????????????

seriously, wtf

(yes, i'm mad)

edit: wait, there's more!!! Some of you might be asking, "what makes the purify synergy the best synergy in the game?" Well, I forgot to mention that the purge from the ritual synergy removes all debuffs. Yeah, that's right, all of them. Got 8 bleeds, major defile, minor defile, a snare or a root (or both!!!), and three other dots or a curse on you? Just hit that synergy and instantly mitigate like three health bars worth of damage and remove all of those scary debuffs and heal yourself and also give yourself back resources.

wew

Minno

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

What does "proactive defense" mean? You're already permanently snaring anyone that you're pvping against whether you're stam or mag because you're guaranteed to have a ritual down that makes them slower than you even when they're sprinting because of the way movement speed is calculated, a 70% snare relatively often on top of that from sweep/jabs, or a 40% snare from Vampie's Bane for a short period after you cast it. Being able to kite almost anyone any time you want because they're permanently snared isn't "proactive defense"? You can instantly mitigate all direct incoming melee damage by just running away unless you're snared yourself because you're almost always moving faster than your opponents. Apparently that isn't enough and you need a fourth snare and an immobilize and a backloaded stun to survive, I guess.

There is no class better at kiting multiple people than a Templar (including Sorc) solely because of ritual and now we're giving them another snare, an immobilize, and a stun that they can put on anyone that prevents anyone from using any direct damaging abilities or else they're.. snared again, and immobilized, and then stunned, all while taking damage. The group utility of a large ground aoe that removes debuffs off of the caster, snares everyone inside of it, heals, does damage, and provides your teammates with the best synergy in the game which heals them to full and removes debuffs off of them wasn't enough. That giant snaring ground aoe's heal was also just increased by 95% and it'll heal for as much as a tick of Vigor too. Clearly extended ritual just isn't enough and templars needed more cc and group utility, or something.

I have to be honest, as someone who plays a dk in pvp, I'm feeling like my abilities just don't do enough. Where's my giant circle that heals everyone for half of what vigor heals for (for 18 seconds), snares everyone inside of it, gives me minor mending, removes debuffs off of me, and gives my teammates a synergy that gives them resources and removes debuffs off of them and heals them to full. ZOS? Can I get something like that?

wtf is going on with this game

Two templars dropping two rituals will basically be mean permanent vigor on everyone aside from everything else that insanely overloaded ability provides. After giving that to templars in the next patch, who thought to themselves, "you know what, they need an ability that does damage, snares, roots, and stuns too".

???????????????????

?????????????????????????????????????

seriously, wtf

(yes, i'm mad)

edit: wait, there's more!!! Some of you might be asking, "what makes the purify synergy the best synergy in the game?" Well, I forgot to mention that the purge from the ritual synergy removes all debuffs. Yeah, that's right, all of them. Got 8 bleeds, major defile, minor defile, a snare or a root (or both!!!), and three other dots or a curse on you? Just hit that synergy and instantly mitigate like three health bars worth of damage and remove all of those scary debuffs and heal yourself and also give yourself back resources.

wew

I forget you're the troll from other threads. I don't want to list what makes something proactive, purge/eclipse isn't it. And I didn't read any of your text lol.

Wait till Monday people.

brandonv516

This will be like the "Incap Silence situation" before it was nerfed.

ecru

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

What does "proactive defense" mean? You're already permanently snaring anyone that you're pvping against whether you're stam or mag because you're guaranteed to have a ritual down that makes them slower than you even when they're sprinting because of the way movement speed is calculated, a 70% snare relatively often on top of that from sweep/jabs, or a 40% snare from Vampie's Bane for a short period after you cast it. Being able to kite almost anyone any time you want because they're permanently snared isn't "proactive defense"? You can instantly mitigate all direct incoming melee damage by just running away unless you're snared yourself because you're almost always moving faster than your opponents. Apparently that isn't enough and you need a fourth snare and an immobilize and a backloaded stun to survive, I guess.

There is no class better at kiting multiple people than a Templar (including Sorc) solely because of ritual and now we're giving them another snare, an immobilize, and a stun that they can put on anyone that prevents anyone from using any direct damaging abilities or else they're.. snared again, and immobilized, and then stunned, all while taking damage. The group utility of a large ground aoe that removes debuffs off of the caster, snares everyone inside of it, heals, does damage, and provides your teammates with the best synergy in the game which heals them to full and removes debuffs off of them wasn't enough. That giant snaring ground aoe's heal was also just increased by 95% and it'll heal for as much as a tick of Vigor too. Clearly extended ritual just isn't enough and templars needed more cc and group utility, or something.

I have to be honest, as someone who plays a dk in pvp, I'm feeling like my abilities just don't do enough. Where's my giant circle that heals everyone for half of what vigor heals for (for 18 seconds), snares everyone inside of it, gives me minor mending, removes debuffs off of me, and gives my teammates a synergy that gives them resources and removes debuffs off of them and heals them to full. ZOS? Can I get something like that?

wtf is going on with this game

Two templars dropping two rituals will basically be mean permanent vigor on everyone aside from everything else that insanely overloaded ability provides. After giving that to templars in the next patch, who thought to themselves, "you know what, they need an ability that does damage, snares, roots, and stuns too".

???????????????????

?????????????????????????????????????

seriously, wtf

(yes, i'm mad)

edit: wait, there's more!!! Some of you might be asking, "what makes the purify synergy the best synergy in the game?" Well, I forgot to mention that the purge from the ritual synergy removes all debuffs. Yeah, that's right, all of them. Got 8 bleeds, major defile, minor defile, a snare or a root (or both!!!), and three other dots or a curse on you? Just hit that synergy and instantly mitigate like three health bars worth of damage and remove all of those scary debuffs and heal yourself and also give yourself back resources.

wew

I forget you're the troll from other threads. I don't want to list what makes something proactive, purge/eclipse isn't it. And I didn't read any of your text lol.

Wait till Monday people.

yeah any post that doesn't suggest templar is the worst, most gimped class in eso is trolling.

or maybe i'm just tired of being permanently snared in BGs and don't want even more snares, roots, and stuns (all packed into one ability) in the game.

btw ritual is still the most overloaded ability in the entire game and it's heal was just doubled but that's not what this thread is about

zParallaxz

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Oh yeah its horridly broken and is one of those changes where i wonder if I play the same game as them.

I’m honestly glad I don’t invest my time in this game anymore, I was a dk main and played 3 -10+ hours daily all the way back from Vet ranks. But seeing changes like this every other patch and then Zos saying their sorry and will look to communicate better made realize the amount of bs and lip service they do. People may not remember but before class reps they even invited the top streamers like Sypher, Fengrush, Alacast, Lefty Lucy, and I think King Richard to try out some potential changes. They did the same thing with class reps, show the people you invited SOME changes, then when the pts drops add some other changes that REQUIRE A LOT of discussion. I honestly don’t think zenimax employees play the game at a high level in pve or pvp.
I could imagine if Sypher wanted to, he could bully Zos with his social media following into making changes. Since that what seems to work in today’s climate although I don’t agree with it, but hey if it works it works.