Permanent Eclipse Without Counter

ZarkingFrued

This kind of gameplay is why wings was removed

zParallaxz

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

This kind of gameplay is why wings was removed

On the contrary, this is what people thought wings were hypothetically but in actuality you could just disengage the person with wings. This skill is legit unnerfed wings that can be casted on the attacker whilst snaring, damaging, rooting, and cc them. The fact this idea came to pts from people who are PAID to know about this game is horrendous.

fred4

TheNightflame wrote: »

templars want to control you in their house

This has nothing to do with their house. It is applied to a player.

BrokenGameMechanics

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

You are not reading the material. They can permanently place you in an Eclipse with 100% uptime. Read the devs comments it is meant to force you to stop attacking. Ergo you are not attacking 100% of the time.

fred4

@Minno, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. A proactive build is better than a reactive one? No it's not.

You can build with a lot of passive defense, say, with heavy armor. You'll probably end up using a lot of active attack skills to claw your damage back, say because you are a DOT stacking DK.

You can build with a lot of (re)active defense, but few damage skills. It works. I build my magblade that way and I love how responsive it feels. I love templar for the same reason.

You can build with a lot of proactive buffs. Warden strikes me as a class where you end up building like that. Personally I think it makes for an awful playstyle.

At any rate, I am not aware that one approach leads to better results than the other.

I am concentrating on magblade these days, but my magplar is my second best character and feels tanky af, without building all that tanky. It does have some proactive buffs, by the way, Rune and Mutagen. With the changes to Regen, I think that may well become the default way of building magicka classes, next patch, much like Vigor is such an indispensable skill in most stamina builds.

You've said, elsewhere, that templar is a healing class with some pressure. That's a very hackneyed view. As I am running a pure pressure build on my templar, I feel forced to agree, although there is PotL. What this view ignores is how good magplars are at applying pressure.

Example: J Beam was seen as overused cheese, in the past. It got nerfed. Noobs stopped using it. It didn't perform in PvE. It got buffed. Not many people have caught on or they don't have room in the build, because of how good other skills are these days.

I am a relatively conservative player, running Pirate + Amber + Overwhelming Surge + Protective jewelry. Other players I know are running Shock Clench in place of Total Dark, a damage monster set, light armor, stacking spell damage and surviving with just 1H + S and Mist Form while 1vXing in IC. Magplar has quietly moved into a pretty good spot for open world PvP.

jcm2606

zParallaxz wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Oh yeah its horridly broken and is one of those changes where i wonder if I play the same game as them.

I’m honestly glad I don’t invest my time in this game anymore, I was a dk main and played 3 -10+ hours daily all the way back from Vet ranks. But seeing changes like this every other patch and then Zos saying their sorry and will look to communicate better made realize the amount of bs and lip service they do. People may not remember but before class reps they even invited the top streamers like Sypher, Fengrush, Alacast, Lefty Lucy, and I think King Richard to try out some potential changes. They did the same thing with class reps, show the people you invited SOME changes, then when the pts drops add some other changes that REQUIRE A LOT of discussion. I honestly don’t think zenimax employees play the game at a high level in pve or pvp.
I could imagine if Sypher wanted to, he could bully Zos with his social media following into making changes. Since that what seems to work in today’s climate although I don’t agree with it, but hey if it works it works.

Well, they do, it's just that they suck at high level content, whether PVE or PVP. Which isn't much better than not playing it at all.

I think the problem is more the fact that because they know how the game plays at a technical level (they absolutely do know how it plays at a technical level, no question about it since they're actually writing the code behind everything), they think they know how it plays at a mechanical level, and so they think they know best when it comes to predicting and shaping the meta.

They don't. It's painfully obvious from the fact that they keep shoving a million changes into a tiny PTS window, that they don't. They have no idea how the sheer volume of untested changes that they push out are extremely destructive to not only the meta, but the overall game experience. If they did, there's no way they would have pushed this many changes, in a single weekly PTS patch. There's no way they would have expected that they can properly sift through this clusterf**k of changes, in 4, maybe 5 weeks.

And that's the problem. They think they do, but they don't. Because they think they do, they don't listen to the people who actually know the game at a mechanical level, ie the class reps, the community, etc. I'm not talking about "this change is garbage" or "you need to address this now", even though both are perfectly valid criticisms IMO. I'm talking about "you need to slow way down and do one thing at a time". I'm talking about putting changes in front of the class reps, rather than completely surprising the reps with garbage changes that end up being reverted or, at the least, significantly reworked.

Had they have put these changes in front of the class reps, an entire week's worth of feedback would have been given in a single 5-10 minute discussion between the reps and the devs. But no, Zenimax knows better, Zenimax knows all.

RiskyChalice863

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheNightflame wrote: »

how is that different from an on demand cc, that just happens instantly? vs one that happens after you do direct damage.

I get cc'd. I break free.

I get cc'd Im forced to not attack for 4s otherwise I get reflected, snared, rooted and stunned lmao.


4s. Of basically losing the ability to attack.

You aren’t actually forced to not attack for 4 seconds. You’re only forced to not attack if you don’t want to cc break. Just attack twice and then cc break the immobilize. How is that POSSIBLY any worse for the victim than an ability that actually just immobilizes you in the first place????? It basically allows the victim of Eclipse to choose when/if they get cc’ed rather than the Templar player choosing the timing, which makes it substantially harder for the Templar to use it as part of a burst combo. Do you take some damage by eating the immobilize? Sure. But other cc abilities also come with some damage as well and it sounds like Eclipse won’t do a ton of damage unless you attack like 4 times.

If anything, it’s underpowered compared to other cc abilities, to be honest. Other cc abilities do a little bit of damage and cc the victim with the timing of the cc chosen by the attacker. Eclipse basically does a little bit of damage and may cc the victim with the timing of that cc chosen by the victim.

I’ll note I’m assuming that cc breaking the immobilize ends the Eclipse, such that you aren’t then stunned again if you attack after that. But I don’t see how that would be the case, especially as you’d have cc immunity after cc breaking the immobilize.

ganzaeso

Don't worry templars.

By the time this PTS cycle is over, your eclipse will get the DK Wings treatment.

You may cry now.

FlamingBeard

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

What does "proactive defense" mean? You're already permanently snaring anyone that you're pvping against whether you're stam or mag because you're guaranteed to have a ritual down that makes them slower than you even when they're sprinting because of the way movement speed is calculated, a 70% snare relatively often on top of that from sweep/jabs, or a 40% snare from Vampie's Bane for a short period after you cast it. Being able to kite almost anyone any time you want because they're permanently snared isn't "proactive defense"? You can instantly mitigate all direct incoming melee damage by just running away unless you're snared yourself because you're almost always moving faster than your opponents. Apparently that isn't enough and you need a fourth snare and an immobilize and a backloaded stun to survive, I guess.

There is no class better at kiting multiple people than a Templar (including Sorc) solely because of ritual and now we're giving them another snare, an immobilize, and a stun that they can put on anyone that prevents anyone from using any direct damaging abilities or else they're.. snared again, and immobilized, and then stunned, all while taking damage. The group utility of a large ground aoe that removes debuffs off of the caster, snares everyone inside of it, heals, does damage, and provides your teammates with the best synergy in the game which heals them to full and removes debuffs off of them wasn't enough. That giant snaring ground aoe's heal was also just increased by 95% and it'll heal for as much as a tick of Vigor too. Clearly extended ritual just isn't enough and templars needed more cc and group utility, or something.

I have to be honest, as someone who plays a dk in pvp, I'm feeling like my abilities just don't do enough. Where's my giant circle that heals everyone for half of what vigor heals for (for 18 seconds), snares everyone inside of it, gives me minor mending, removes debuffs off of me, and gives my teammates a synergy that gives them resources and removes debuffs off of them and heals them to full. ZOS? Can I get something like that?

wtf is going on with this game

Two templars dropping two rituals will basically be mean permanent vigor on everyone aside from everything else that insanely overloaded ability provides. After giving that to templars in the next patch, who thought to themselves, "you know what, they need an ability that does damage, snares, roots, and stuns too".

???????????????????

?????????????????????????????????????

seriously, wtf

(yes, i'm mad)

edit: wait, there's more!!! Some of you might be asking, "what makes the purify synergy the best synergy in the game?" Well, I forgot to mention that the purge from the ritual synergy removes all debuffs. Yeah, that's right, all of them. Got 8 bleeds, major defile, minor defile, a snare or a root (or both!!!), and three other dots or a curse on you? Just hit that synergy and instantly mitigate like three health bars worth of damage and remove all of those scary debuffs and heal yourself and also give yourself back resources.

wew

I forget you're the troll from other threads. I don't want to list what makes something proactive, purge/eclipse isn't it. And I didn't read any of your text lol.

Wait till Monday people.

yeah any post that doesn't suggest templar is the worst, most gimped class in eso is trolling.

or maybe i'm just tired of being permanently snared in BGs and don't want even more snares, roots, and stuns (all packed into one ability) in the game.

btw ritual is still the most overloaded ability in the entire game and it's heal was just doubled but that's not what this thread is about

Doesn't DK have a snare immunity and removal skill that also reduces all ranged damage by 50%?

If you don't like snares, use the tools given to you for remedying that issue and if you don't want to make that change to your build then obviously you just want a reason to complain.

I'm a Templar main and I don't agree with the manner in which Eclipse and Unstable Core morph were changed, but Templar definitely needs proactive defense, which is what Total Dark is being turned into as Living Dark.

Purging and burst healing is not anywhere near sufficient survival mechanism for PvP these days, especially with a bunch of Major Vulnerability Colossus ultimates being dropped in Battlegrounds every other moment.

Sharee

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

Royaji

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

leepalmer95

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

Ignoring the dmg reflect or?

leepalmer95

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheNightflame wrote: »

how is that different from an on demand cc, that just happens instantly? vs one that happens after you do direct damage.

I get cc'd. I break free.

I get cc'd Im forced to not attack for 4s otherwise I get reflected, snared, rooted and stunned lmao.


4s. Of basically losing the ability to attack.

You aren’t actually forced to not attack for 4 seconds. You’re only forced to not attack if you don’t want to cc break. Just attack twice and then cc break the immobilize. How is that POSSIBLY any worse for the victim than an ability that actually just immobilizes you in the first place????? It basically allows the victim of Eclipse to choose when/if they get cc’ed rather than the Templar player choosing the timing, which makes it substantially harder for the Templar to use it as part of a burst combo. Do you take some damage by eating the immobilize? Sure. But other cc abilities also come with some damage as well and it sounds like Eclipse won’t do a ton of damage unless you attack like 4 times.

If anything, it’s underpowered compared to other cc abilities, to be honest. Other cc abilities do a little bit of damage and cc the victim with the timing of the cc chosen by the attacker. Eclipse basically does a little bit of damage and may cc the victim with the timing of that cc chosen by the victim.

I’ll note I’m assuming that cc breaking the immobilize ends the Eclipse, such that you aren’t then stunned again if you attack after that. But I don’t see how that would be the case, especially as you’d have cc immunity after cc breaking the immobilize.

You can't cc break an immobilize, its a soft cc.

Also I'm still getting dmg reflected on me as I attack.

RiskyChalice863

leepalmer95 wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheNightflame wrote: »

how is that different from an on demand cc, that just happens instantly? vs one that happens after you do direct damage.

I get cc'd. I break free.

I get cc'd Im forced to not attack for 4s otherwise I get reflected, snared, rooted and stunned lmao.


4s. Of basically losing the ability to attack.

You aren’t actually forced to not attack for 4 seconds. You’re only forced to not attack if you don’t want to cc break. Just attack twice and then cc break the immobilize. How is that POSSIBLY any worse for the victim than an ability that actually just immobilizes you in the first place????? It basically allows the victim of Eclipse to choose when/if they get cc’ed rather than the Templar player choosing the timing, which makes it substantially harder for the Templar to use it as part of a burst combo. Do you take some damage by eating the immobilize? Sure. But other cc abilities also come with some damage as well and it sounds like Eclipse won’t do a ton of damage unless you attack like 4 times.

If anything, it’s underpowered compared to other cc abilities, to be honest. Other cc abilities do a little bit of damage and cc the victim with the timing of the cc chosen by the attacker. Eclipse basically does a little bit of damage and may cc the victim with the timing of that cc chosen by the victim.

I’ll note I’m assuming that cc breaking the immobilize ends the Eclipse, such that you aren’t then stunned again if you attack after that. But I don’t see how that would be the case, especially as you’d have cc immunity after cc breaking the immobilize.

You can't cc break an immobilize, its a soft cc.

Also I'm still getting dmg reflected on me as I attack.

Ah you’re right, my bad. The point remains though. My point was you can just attack until the first opportunity to cc break, and then cc break. And yes, you’d get damaged when you attack, but we don’t even know how much damage that will be. Most other cc abilities in the game damage you as well, so unless the damage reflection is massive, this is likely not very different. It’s basically just a cc ability that does some damage as well, but with the added downside of not actually being able to control when or if the cc actually happens. Presumably, this downside is balanced by it not being dodgeable, and it may be further tuned by doing more (or possibly less) damage than other cc abilities. But it’s just utterly ridiculous to complain about this right now as if it’s somehow unheard of for an ability to cc you and do damage.

The factor of not being able to control when or if the cc actually happens is a huge factor. Eclipse will not be able to be used in a burst combo in any remotely reliable way since you won’t know when it’s going to cc the target. And it won’t be able to be used as an emergency cc against someone who is about to kill you, because they could still get off attacks before being cc’ed. It won’t even be able to be used as a 4 second silence on someone who really doesn’t want to be cc’ed—even if you catch someone without stamina, they can just use those 4 seconds to put on buffs or AOE damage abilities and not be affected.

It honestly sounds not very powerful at all, and the only hope for it is for the damage reflected back to actually be pretty high.

Sharee

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

I'm not ignoring anything. I was simply replying to the original poster's claim that you can be perma-eclipsed. Since the 3rd effect is a stun, which can be CC broken, you in fact can not be perma-eclipsed.

Royaji

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

I'm not ignoring anything. I was simply replying to the original poster's claim that you can be perma-eclipsed. Since the 3rd effect is a stun, which can be CC broken, you in fact can not be perma-eclipsed.

Ah, two can play this game then. You can't be perma-stunned. It doesn't mean that you can't be perma-eclipsed though.

Sharee

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

I'm not ignoring anything. I was simply replying to the original poster's claim that you can be perma-eclipsed. Since the 3rd effect is a stun, which can be CC broken, you in fact can not be perma-eclipsed.

Ah, two can play this game then. You can't be perma-stunned. It doesn't mean that you can't be perma-eclipsed though.

It does. CC breaking places CC immunity on you, which will prevent another eclipse from being applied to you for 7 seconds.

Royaji

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

I'm not ignoring anything. I was simply replying to the original poster's claim that you can be perma-eclipsed. Since the 3rd effect is a stun, which can be CC broken, you in fact can not be perma-eclipsed.

Ah, two can play this game then. You can't be perma-stunned. It doesn't mean that you can't be perma-eclipsed though.

It does. CC breaking places CC immunity on you, which will prevent another eclipse from being applied to you for 7 seconds.

This is a quote from the dev comment:

"We also wanted the ability to be used in both PvE and PvP, so we've removed the pseudo crowd control element it once operated from."

To me that sounds like Eclipse will no longer be considered a CC at all and thus will not respect CC immunity.

Sharee

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

I'm not ignoring anything. I was simply replying to the original poster's claim that you can be perma-eclipsed. Since the 3rd effect is a stun, which can be CC broken, you in fact can not be perma-eclipsed.

Ah, two can play this game then. You can't be perma-stunned. It doesn't mean that you can't be perma-eclipsed though.

It does. CC breaking places CC immunity on you, which will prevent another eclipse from being applied to you for 7 seconds.

This is a quote from the dev comment:

"We also wanted the ability to be used in both PvE and PvP, so we've removed the pseudo crowd control element it once operated from."

To me that sounds like Eclipse will no longer be considered a CC at all and thus will not respect CC immunity.

That just means it can not be CC broken, not that you now can apply it to a CC-immune target.

You may not remember, but that's how eclipse operated a couple years back. You could not CC break it, but when it expired naturally, it placed CC immunity on you, and you were protected from further eclipses until the CC immunity wore off.

StShoot

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

I'm not ignoring anything. I was simply replying to the original poster's claim that you can be perma-eclipsed. Since the 3rd effect is a stun, which can be CC broken, you in fact can not be perma-eclipsed.

Ah, two can play this game then. You can't be perma-stunned. It doesn't mean that you can't be perma-eclipsed though.

It does. CC breaking places CC immunity on you, which will prevent another eclipse from being applied to you for 7 seconds.

This is a quote from the dev comment:

"We also wanted the ability to be used in both PvE and PvP, so we've removed the pseudo crowd control element it once operated from."

To me that sounds like Eclipse will no longer be considered a CC at all and thus will not respect CC immunity.

If you can use it in PvE than it wont be tied to the CC immunity, i guess that means that you can be perma eclipsed but the stun at the end wont activate with every eclipse, but we will see soon.

Also why 7 seconds of CC immunity ? i thought the CC immunity only lasted 6 secs

Sharee

StShoot wrote: »

Also why 7 seconds of CC immunity ? i thought the CC immunity only lasted 6 secs

Definitely 7 seconds. From a dev post (patch notes) but dont make me look it up

It was the patch that equalized CC immunity lengths between CC-break immunity, and natural-expire CC immunity. It literally said "they now both last 7 seconds".

Royaji

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

I'm not ignoring anything. I was simply replying to the original poster's claim that you can be perma-eclipsed. Since the 3rd effect is a stun, which can be CC broken, you in fact can not be perma-eclipsed.

Ah, two can play this game then. You can't be perma-stunned. It doesn't mean that you can't be perma-eclipsed though.

It does. CC breaking places CC immunity on you, which will prevent another eclipse from being applied to you for 7 seconds.

This is a quote from the dev comment:

"We also wanted the ability to be used in both PvE and PvP, so we've removed the pseudo crowd control element it once operated from."

To me that sounds like Eclipse will no longer be considered a CC at all and thus will not respect CC immunity.

That just means it can not be CC broken, not that you now can apply it to a CC-immune target.

You may not remember, but that's how eclipse operated a couple years back. You could not CC break it, but when it expired naturally, it placed CC immunity on you, and you were protected from further eclipses until the CC immunity wore off.

Most PvE enemies are permanently CC immune and the comment specifically states that they want people to use Eclipse in PvE too. This doesn't align well with your interpretation.

Qbiken

Juhasow wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

Oh, so I can attack them with the dots that just got nerfed......

Single target DoTs got buffed mostly.

The damage buff to most bleeds should be weaker taking into consideration that they're now mitigated by resistance. But will have to go on pts to double check, can be wrong.

Sharee

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

First you get snared, then you get rooted. Neither actually prevents you from continuing to attack the templar.
Then you get stunned, which you can CC break out of, giving you 7 seconds immunity from the sphere.

You are conveniently ignoring that you are also taking damage which ramps up with every attack. This is quite literally backloaded fossilize with damage. And people consider fossilize to be oppressive...

I'm not ignoring anything. I was simply replying to the original poster's claim that you can be perma-eclipsed. Since the 3rd effect is a stun, which can be CC broken, you in fact can not be perma-eclipsed.

Ah, two can play this game then. You can't be perma-stunned. It doesn't mean that you can't be perma-eclipsed though.

It does. CC breaking places CC immunity on you, which will prevent another eclipse from being applied to you for 7 seconds.

This is a quote from the dev comment:

"We also wanted the ability to be used in both PvE and PvP, so we've removed the pseudo crowd control element it once operated from."

To me that sounds like Eclipse will no longer be considered a CC at all and thus will not respect CC immunity.

That just means it can not be CC broken, not that you now can apply it to a CC-immune target.

You may not remember, but that's how eclipse operated a couple years back. You could not CC break it, but when it expired naturally, it placed CC immunity on you, and you were protected from further eclipses until the CC immunity wore off.

Most PvE enemies are permanently CC immune and the comment specifically states that they want people to use Eclipse in PvE too. This doesn't align well with your interpretation.

The fact that there are some CC immune enemies in PvE does not mean people can not use it in PvE.

ecru

FlamingBeard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lol everyone running sorcs/dk/NB are annoyed they fought that one Templar dd amongt the 100's of argonian healbots.

New eclipse will be fine. Gotta remember the Templar has ZERO proactive defense, sits behind sustain pressure offense, lost their block mitigation,and has no easy mobilty. They needed the total dark mechanic to replace blinding flash mechanic.

You all are complaining before the patch is even playable lol.

What does "proactive defense" mean? You're already permanently snaring anyone that you're pvping against whether you're stam or mag because you're guaranteed to have a ritual down that makes them slower than you even when they're sprinting because of the way movement speed is calculated, a 70% snare relatively often on top of that from sweep/jabs, or a 40% snare from Vampie's Bane for a short period after you cast it. Being able to kite almost anyone any time you want because they're permanently snared isn't "proactive defense"? You can instantly mitigate all direct incoming melee damage by just running away unless you're snared yourself because you're almost always moving faster than your opponents. Apparently that isn't enough and you need a fourth snare and an immobilize and a backloaded stun to survive, I guess.

There is no class better at kiting multiple people than a Templar (including Sorc) solely because of ritual and now we're giving them another snare, an immobilize, and a stun that they can put on anyone that prevents anyone from using any direct damaging abilities or else they're.. snared again, and immobilized, and then stunned, all while taking damage. The group utility of a large ground aoe that removes debuffs off of the caster, snares everyone inside of it, heals, does damage, and provides your teammates with the best synergy in the game which heals them to full and removes debuffs off of them wasn't enough. That giant snaring ground aoe's heal was also just increased by 95% and it'll heal for as much as a tick of Vigor too. Clearly extended ritual just isn't enough and templars needed more cc and group utility, or something.

I have to be honest, as someone who plays a dk in pvp, I'm feeling like my abilities just don't do enough. Where's my giant circle that heals everyone for half of what vigor heals for (for 18 seconds), snares everyone inside of it, gives me minor mending, removes debuffs off of me, and gives my teammates a synergy that gives them resources and removes debuffs off of them and heals them to full. ZOS? Can I get something like that?

wtf is going on with this game

Two templars dropping two rituals will basically be mean permanent vigor on everyone aside from everything else that insanely overloaded ability provides. After giving that to templars in the next patch, who thought to themselves, "you know what, they need an ability that does damage, snares, roots, and stuns too".

???????????????????

?????????????????????????????????????

seriously, wtf

(yes, i'm mad)

edit: wait, there's more!!! Some of you might be asking, "what makes the purify synergy the best synergy in the game?" Well, I forgot to mention that the purge from the ritual synergy removes all debuffs. Yeah, that's right, all of them. Got 8 bleeds, major defile, minor defile, a snare or a root (or both!!!), and three other dots or a curse on you? Just hit that synergy and instantly mitigate like three health bars worth of damage and remove all of those scary debuffs and heal yourself and also give yourself back resources.

wew

I forget you're the troll from other threads. I don't want to list what makes something proactive, purge/eclipse isn't it. And I didn't read any of your text lol.

Wait till Monday people.

yeah any post that doesn't suggest templar is the worst, most gimped class in eso is trolling.

or maybe i'm just tired of being permanently snared in BGs and don't want even more snares, roots, and stuns (all packed into one ability) in the game.

btw ritual is still the most overloaded ability in the entire game and it's heal was just doubled but that's not what this thread is about

Doesn't DK have a snare immunity and removal skill that also reduces all ranged damage by 50%?

If you don't like snares, use the tools given to you for remedying that issue and if you don't want to make that change to your build then obviously you just want a reason to complain.

I'm a Templar main and I don't agree with the manner in which Eclipse and Unstable Core morph were changed, but Templar definitely needs proactive defense, which is what Total Dark is being turned into as Living Dark.

Purging and burst healing is not anywhere near sufficient survival mechanism for PvP these days, especially with a bunch of Major Vulnerability Colossus ultimates being dropped in Battlegrounds every other moment.

Believe it or not stamina players do not have large magicka pools which allow them to spam a magicka ability that costs 4k mag every 4 seconds to counter a permanently snaring 24 second ground aoe. You use 4k magicka on your ritual, you snare 8 people inside of it for 24 seconds. I use half of my magicka for 4 seconds of snare removal and have 20 seconds more of a snare to deal with. See the problem there? It wouldn't be close to fair even if I gave snare immunity to my entire team for the duration.

If you don't like snares, just use a snare removal six times every time a templar uses one ritual, I guess. Using 24k magicka to counter a ground aoe snare that costs 4k mag seems about right, lol.

What is it with templars on this forum and not realizing how incredibly overloaded some of their abilities are compared to other classes? Is this a thing exclusive to people who mostly heal? How about this--what if refreshing path also purged the caster, provided minor mending while inside of it, did damage equal to it's healing (it used to, anyone remember that?), and provided people inside of it with a synergy that removed all debuffs? I mean, why doesn't it do those things? Can anyone answer that? Clearly if you compare it to the newly buffed ritual of retribution, it should do all of those things. The major difference would be that ritual snares, and path gives major expedition. Woe are the templars, whose abilities only do 8 things, instead of 9.

Some of you need some serious help understanding opportunity costs.

Drdeath20

You havent even tried it. I mean c'mon now

Khenzy

So if I understand this correctly, the skill itself wont be affected by CC immunity and Immobilize immunity, so you can actually reapply it at any time. The actual CC and immobilize will indeed be affected. So in conclusion, as the effects are backloaded, a Templar can cast and recast the skill all the time, it will stay on your opponent all the time, having 100% uptime on the damage reflect and making your opponent break CC and immobilize effectively on immunity CD? So the only counter is completely depleting your stamina breaking CCs or not attacking at all? All of that with a single skill? All the while the Templar has free reign on you?

Correct me if I'm wrong please, if not, that sounds... very strong.

Gnortranermara

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

Unless your class has a purge you are helpless.

All classes have access to Purge in the Support skill line. If this change goes live, more people will choose to run Purge which is a hard counter to the new Eclipse (and would help against bleeds and other common PvP complaints). But yes, as a Templar main I agree it needs some other form of soft counter for those without a purge.

CASBrown1996

I remember when they made this a cc-able skill, it did not work out, now they want to bring it back and make it unbreakable and stun, I must say this sounds like a broken skill, so now I have to deal with being unable to attack for 4 sec to be allowed to for the max immunity I can gain plus CC immunity pot is about 16 sec, if I am not on pot cooldown, bad idea, really a bad idea, this skill shouldn't even be in the game unless its CC-able, otherwise, back to the drawing board round 3.

Firstmep

Lets wait for pts, most likely after the 4 sec youll get cc immune, otherwise it would be way too op.
Its funny how they keep coming with these overly complicated mechanics for eclipse that no one wanted.
At least the new total dark is great, i hope they dont change that morph anymore apart from numbers tuning.