Nobody was complaining that healers were OP, why the nerf?

SeaUnicorn

This patch is a massive nerf to healing just about in every type of content.

Grand Healing: Converted this ability into a true AoE HoT, rather than a hybrid spammable hybrid HoT.
Increased the duration from 3 seconds to 8 seconds, but you may only have 1 active at a time.
Reduced the healing per tick by approximately 44%.
Reduced cost to 2808 from 3510.
Healing Springs (morph): This ability now grants 30 Magicka every time it heals an ally, rather than restoring 330 Magicka for up to 3 allies healed by the initial hit. This will result in a higher return if you hit all 6 targets for the full duration, but will require more coordination to obtain.
Illustrious Healing (morph): This ability continues to increase the duration. The new duration is 9 seconds, which ranks up to 12 seconds at Rank IV.

Healing springs were the most reliable healing for the group. If you want it to be usable HOT - increase healing per tick at least. How are we suppose to get through ZMaja execute without healing springs?

Necrotic Orb:
Reduced the base cost of this ability and its morphs to 3780 from 4590.
Reduced the damage per tick of this ability and the Mystic Orb morph by approximately 13%, but it can now deal damage every half second instead of every second.
You can only have 1 orb active at a time.
Decreased the speed to 2 meters per second from 3 meters per second to help it deal damage or heal targets more reliably as the orb passes them.
Healing Orbs (morph): Reduced the healing per tick of this ability by approximately 13%, and fixed an issue where allies affected by the Heal from this ability were unable to take damage from Necrotic or Mystic Orbs from some players.

Limit to a single orb active is just beyond my understanding. Newly created necromancer class has horrid sustain issues and relies on external sustain support. Race changes caused sustain issues to meta magicka builds, food changes nuked sustain too. Now you are taking group sustain support away? It's already hard enough to juggle all the buffs/de-buffs as a healer, now I have to dispense Orbs as if they are food rations during he war?

Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Mutagen (morph): Increased the burst heal value of this ability by approximately 93%.

Regeneration already has very limited use in PVE and rarely makes it to the trial healer set up, now it's going to be rendered completely useless. Healer supposed to be GROUP play oriented, not a pocket single target healer. To me looks like one more PVP oriented nerf that affects PVE.

Lots of the skill changes to me look like a poor attempt to balance PVP.
Yet somehow Battlegrounds queue is broken and I don't see any fix for it, Cyrodil lags pretty badly, yet instead of focusing on things that everyone wants to see fixed developers work on nerfs that nobody asks for.

Overall the patch changes make no sense to me at all.

Ishtharo

SHould have been a thing to nerf for PvP either. I just posted a PvP break down for the resto staff changes here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483647/restoration-staff-changes-discussion-thread/p1?new=1

BigBragg

The orbs changes are the ones that bother me the most, since only templars don't need to use them. Only have one out at a time will dramatically change who gets the assistance from them. I could see the slower speed being helpful in some stagnate places, but other times in moments of high mobility they already feel like cold molasses.

SeaUnicorn

@BigBragg im a Templar healer and I heavily rely on orbs just like any other healer class. Not only orbs heal in addition to resource restore, but most importantly you can have an orb for each team member out, while shards are limited to only one at a time. In current sustain nerf meta orbs are crucial to teamplay

Trinity_Is_My_Name

BigBragg wrote: »

The orbs changes are the ones that bother me the most, since only templars don't need to use them. Only have one out at a time will dramatically change who gets the assistance from them. I could see the slower speed being helpful in some stagnate places, but other times in moments of high mobility they already feel like cold molasses.

Agree. If these changes go through I can see Templars as the ONLY choice for hard core content. I can see it now....Templars will be spamming Shards all over the group for regen instead of popping Orbs. This is going to be a mess.

Thanks ZOS!

BigBragg

slofwnd wrote: »

@BigBragg im a Templar healer and I heavily rely on orbs just like any other healer class. Not only orbs heal in addition to resource restore, but most importantly you can have an orb for each team member out, while shards are limited to only one at a time. In current sustain nerf meta orbs are crucial to teamplay

Also healplar main, but do play others classes. The difference is with shards you can get them to targets with minimal delay, making it an almost on demand type deal. Orbs, being the lovable rolly polly beast that they are, often take predetermination (which I am fine with) that will now be a major obstacle for groups.

Edit: In general I think this is another case of ZOS trying to do too much at once. I completely understand that heals are overperforming and need adjustments. This approach is signature heavy handed moves by them.

SeaUnicorn

In harder vet trial content heals are not overperforming, some content can't be even cleared without massive healing. Looks like ZOS looks exclusively at PVP and some old content to do the changes. This is a kick in the gut to all the progression teams out there.

Varana

BigBragg wrote: »

I completely understand that heals are overperforming and need adjustments.

They're not overperforming, though.
Especially not the ones they nerf - PvE group healing and resource return.

Sanguinor2

PvPers complained that ball Groups have too much healing. This just seems to be an attempt to Squash that without thinking of any consequences this might have on the PvE side of Things.

WuffyCerulei

Pvpers cried that healing HAS to be nerfed into the ground, and now pvers have to suffer because of their tears. I do understand healing in pvp is pretty strong, BUT that should be resolved with a change to Battle Spirit, not just in general.

VaranisArano

Nobody ever says "X in PVE is too powerful it needs to be nerfed!"

Instead, they say, "PVE is too easy!"


That being said, I suspect ZOS took a look at the two places where you see lots of stacked healing springs: PVE group content and PVP organized groups and decided it needed a nerf.

(Spoiler: it won't hurt the well-organized or completion groups because they can compensate with other skills and tactics. It will hurt the semi-organized and progression groups who were relying on it and can't compensate as easily)

SeaUnicorn

@VaranisArano it will affect everyone around the board because it's a nerf to sustain. Hence indirect nerf to DPS. With lower DPS all groups will struggle more with mechanics and that is compensated with more healing, which also got nerfed. I was not able to get for example vCR+2/+3 clears and vHOF HM. Now I won't be able to ever clear it, thx to ZOS

KatySpirit

BigBragg wrote: »

The orbs changes are the ones that bother me the most, since only templars don't need to use them. Only have one out at a time will dramatically change who gets the assistance from them. I could see the slower speed being helpful in some stagnate places, but other times in moments of high mobility they already feel like cold molasses.

Non-templar healers are definitely going to be in trouble here. One slow orb cannot compete with one slow orb AND a shard. If this goes live, no one but templars will be wanted to heal trials.

Also sorry, templars, for you are pidgeon holed into being shard goblins, whatever your role. Be ready for everyone to yell at you for not giving enough shards when you are trying to do your DPS rotation.

Lord_Eomer

Self healing was OP no doubt and group healing need some challenge but these nerfs are way too much.

PVP destroying PVE

Sandman929

For once, I'm inclined to agree with the "PvP complaining ruins PvE" crowd regarding these healing changes. Might need a bit more dev commentary for this to make sense

VaranisArano

slofwnd wrote: »

@VaranisArano it will affect everyone around the board because it's a nerf to sustain. Hence indirect nerf to DPS. With lower DPS all groups will struggle more with mechanics and that is compensated with more healing, which also got nerfed. I was not able to get for example vCR+2/+3 clears and vHOF HM. Now I won't be able to ever clear it, thx to ZOS

Here's the thing.

It impacts everyone...but it impacts higher-tier groups less than progression groups.

High tier groups have experienced players who know the mechanics, which makes repeated completions easier. Moreover, these groups can now adjust their group composition to cover their weaknesses easier, since they've already surpassed the minimum necessary to conplete the content.

Nerfs might lower this group's DPS or healing, but can't take away their experience and usually doesnt drop this group below the minimum needed for completion since they already surpassed it.

In contrast, progression groups are still learning the mechanics and have not yet met the minimums necessary to conplete the content. They have very little ability to now adjust their group composition to cover new weakness because they are already operating under a low margin of error to get their completion in the first place.

Nerfs that lower this group's DPS or healing directly impact their ability to reach the minimums necessary for completion since they havent done it, and can prevent them from getting the experience necessary to beat mechanics and content.



In other words, if you could already do the content, the nerfs probably won't prevent you from completing again.

But if you couldn't or were trying to progress, nerfs make that a lot harder.

Lylith

unnecessary changes to necessary and unbroken skills?

that's never happened before.

Durham

Healing springs was definately causing performance issues when stacking them liked they were being stacked. This change should have been made 3 years ago, or something similar.

Sanguinor2

Durham wrote: »

Healing springs was definately causing performance issues when stacking them liked they were being stacked. This change should have been made 3 years ago, or something similar.

Or they could work on Performance instead of nerfing stuff because they cant Code their game?

del9

ADAPT OR DIE

angeleda

Because selfhealing was buffed , a lot of content (pve and pvp) rendered healers completely irrelevant so now since group healing is nerfed, a healer is more needed (and also more challenging given increase costs and less grouped heals) and has to choose his healing skills rather than slotting everything aoe and overhealing thru every content

SpiderKnight

As always, blame pvpers.

lokulin

What the hell is going on with this game?

SeaUnicorn

What would be nice for overall healer role balance is increased magicka steal and added stamina steal effect instead of orbs, and bigger heal per tick on HS. That way healers don't have to be resource bags and can focus on actually healing.