Restoration Staff Changes Discussion Thread

Ishtharo

Ok, let's do this.


These are the changes I would like to discuss:


Now, My experience with these abilities comes from running a Templar and Warden as a PvP healer in small man (3-6 players), medium organized raids (7-14 players) as well as large groups, both zergs and organized raids (15+ players). I have been playing ESO Cyro since launch, and BGs/IC since their respective DLCs came out. I have put a lot of time into PvP healing in this game, it is by far the most enjoyable activity for me.

With that said, I am alarmed by the changes to Grand Healing and Regeneration from both a group play standpoint, and a fun factor standpoint.

Starting with Grand Healing:
On live this ability functions as a ground targeted AoE heal, with the initial heal counting as a direct AoE heal (since there is no delay in the initial tick).
It is -the- healing spammable go to for a reason:
1) You can stack it
2) it's cheap
3) a single instance isn't powerful, so it took time to build up
4) Class abilities don't offer the utility for the price that Grand Healing does
5) it's group-centric

The proposed changes to Grand Healing are going to completely gut it in both the PvE and PvP scene.

On to Regeneration:
On live, you can hit two targets at once. While the healing and utility factor can change, the hitting of tow targets is what makes this ability good (not great, but good). The now requirement for a healer to cast this ability twice as much and more often relegates them simply to regeneration spamming constantly, rather than actually healing their teammates. Where is the engaging gameplay there?

I'm curious as to the reason for these changes. ZOS likes to say "play the way you like", but it's going to be rather difficult coming here soon on the healing side.
Sure, make changes to the abilities, but keeping the base function the same. Allow Grand Healing to stack on a short duration, and allow Regeneration to hit two targets at once.

These changes are anti group, anti-PvE, and anti-fun.

I enjoy most of the rest of the notes, and there are some good changes coming, but these were not thought through. I don't do PvE very often anymore, so if PvE healers could weigh in I'd appreciate it.

Thanks all.

Rustyfish101

PvE healer here. I made a post about my thoughts and why it is a bad move here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483625/lets-talk-about-the-healing-changes/p1

worrallj

I like the old versions they felt more unique & fun.

Ishtharo

ZOS is on a quest to homogenize everything in the game, to be fair. It's easier to balance.
But the changes to the resto staff line and orbs is was thought up and approved by people who don't play their own game, very clearly.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Springs change looks great, increases the skill cap of healing, if you want to layer several HoTs into your group you can’t just stare at the floor and press one button.

The regeneration change looks weird, it was mostly used to proc trans and maelstrom resto and the new version doesn’t help that role. Maybe the ability will find a new role.

TheRealSniker

Nah, those changes are good

mobicera

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Nah, those changes are good

Please post a video Monday of you clearing the harder vet dlc trials on pts with these changes.
Preferably with an average group...

ClawOfTheTwoMoons

I've seen a lot of discussion about why this change is bad, and the people saying it give good examples as to why it's bad, but for the people defending the changes, all they say is that the changes are good. Why are they good? Cause you can't spam springs during high damage phases? What will be the alternative to this? Give me an alternative to out heal the damage during the poison phase in vSo, or during the meteor phase on the first boss of vMoL. I don't know what healers these people run with, but I know I'm doing a lot more than spamming springs, as for orbs I'm throwing about three out after a combat prayer. I only spam springs when the mechanics mentioned earlier are happening because I have no other skill that's going to heal up everyone around me consistently. What can I do now? Pop a spring, lay down extended ritual and circle of protection and hope for the best? I can't wait to see how these changes look on pts when people attempt ver hardmodes trials.

orbitalcracker

Seeing that you heal on a templar, you would probably use another restoring light ability. They are the class skills for templar that heal people.

Synnastix

Healers are already irrelevant in 3/4 of content anyway, nerfing heals won’t help that.

DisgracefulMind

Synnastix wrote: »

Healers are already irrelevant in 3/4 of content anyway, nerfing heals won’t help that.

Especially since the issue is that healing just isn't needed because you can self heal and dps through everything outside of trials. (':

Lord_Eomer

I like Restro new changes, do not you healers get bored spamming one skill?

Sanguinor2

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

I like Restro new changes, do not you healers get bored spamming one skill?

Only bad healers spammed the same skill, the good healers use multiple and could use the running hots to cast different abilities.

Lady_Rosabella

PvE healer here, as my main...been doing it since 2014 and am the go-to-healer for my Trials group. Sorry to say if these changes go in effect, my healer will be turned into a mule. I enjoy healing and believe a healer should be able to keep group buffs up, heal the group, as well as do damage, with these changes how are healers suppose to do these things?

Viveun

Makes me glad I switched to a necro healer. Spammable aoe burst heal, don't even slot springs. Unfortunately losing the only really means of party rss management though.

labambao

As a pvp healblade i never used grand healing. but regeneration change so good for me, now i have decent self-heal that i lost with healing cloak rework. BTW healing offering doesn't affect by battle spirit, but zos blind so i can say it anywhere.

Aedaryl

Regeneration being a good single target hot is a good thing.

Eso doesn't need more heal it you have enough tools already for that.

Synnastix

Even if the goal is to force healers to skill up, imo it’s just going to force others to focus more on dps to avoid needing a healer in the first place. Having a low bar for entry for healing made it one of the easiest ways to get started in dungeons and group play, yet there were far fewer people doing it than trying to dps. It’s a good role to use to start learning things, so it doesn’t make sense to me to nerf it when the issue is having high dps makes healers less necessary anyway.

The meta is if you bring enough dps, you don’t need a healer anyway. Combine that with making healers less effective / harder and you’re going to attract even fewer to the role. Remove it as a requirement from the group finder so you can just roll 3 dps and tank already.

Of all the things to nerf, that makes no sense to me.

Lady_Rosabella

Synnastix wrote: »

Even if the goal is to force healers to skill up, imo it’s just going to force others to focus more on dps to avoid needing a healer in the first place. Having a low bar for entry for healing made it one of the easiest ways to get started in dungeons and group play, yet there were far fewer people doing it than trying to dps. It’s a good role to use to start learning things, so it doesn’t make sense to me to nerf it when the issue is having high dps makes healers less necessary anyway.

The meta is if you bring enough dps, you don’t need a healer anyway. Combine that with making healers less effective / harder and you’re going to attract even fewer to the role. Remove it as a requirement from the group finder so you can just roll 3 dps and tank already.

Of all the things to nerf, that makes no sense to me.

Try doing Trials, especially hard mode without a healer. Coming from a healer who has been healing trial groups for 5 years, never gonna happen without a healer.

Ishtharo

I am glad that some classes have a replacement for Springs, such as Necro and NB, but the other classes require it in order to be effective. Templar, Marden, DK, and Sorc do not have a cost-effective spammable or filler skill.

I know the consensus is split on Regeneration. I prefer the double target just for time sake, and a higher chance for you to hit it on yourself.

Durham

Changes are good !

labambao

Ishtharo wrote: »

I am glad that some classes have a replacement for Springs, such as Necro and NB, but the other classes require it in order to be effective. Templar, Marden, DK, and Sorc do not have a cost-effective spammable or filler skill.

I know the consensus is split on Regeneration. I prefer the double target just for time sake, and a higher chance for you to hit it on yourself.

idk buddy, if i want hit myself with my heal as rapid regen or healing vines on warden etc i just turn down my camera straight to the floor. Works for me.

Seraphayel

There's not much too complain about the changes made to Regeneration. The HoT always felt quite weak, now it's twice as strong. And a duration of 10s is still enough imho. The cost increase plus additionally just hitting one target might be a problem. One of that would have been enough, either increase cost and make it still hit two targets or keep the lower cost while hitting only one target.

The Mutagen change is great for emergency heals in PvP while Rapid Regeneration is basically the identical twin of Vigor after the changes.

gallach

Seraphayel wrote: »

There's not much too complain about the changes made to Regeneration. The HoT always felt quite weak, now it's twice as strong. And a duration of 10s is still enough imho. The cost increase plus additionally just hitting one target might be a problem. One of that would have been enough, either increase cost and make it still hit two targets or keep the lower cost while hitting only one target.

The Mutagen change is great for emergency heals in PvP while Rapid Regeneration is basically the identical twin of Vigor after the changes.

I like your idea. One Regeneration morph could hit 2 targets and cost more magicka. It would be nice for PVE players like me.

KingExecration

Pvp healer here. Already slapped 3 Swift on my bank mule Templar. I’ll miss you springs.

idk

I would suggest anyone who is wanting to provide worthwhile feedback to post it in the official thread Zos created on the subject. They are expected to go through that thread and probably will not be able to see every post in every thread we create.,

For PvE healing
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484078/

For PvP healing
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484082/

Taleof2Cities

KingExecration wrote: »

Pvp healer here. Already slapped 3 Swift on my bank mule Templar. I’ll miss you springs.

Love it when players just assume the writing is on the wall ...

If ZOS decides to roll back or revert the Springs changes before Live ... you’ll be out 150 transmute stones. Solely due to a knee-jerk reaction to the patch notes.

driosketch

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Springs change looks great, increases the skill cap of healing, if you want to layer several HoTs into your group you can’t just stare at the floor and press one button.

It's the opposite really. Instead of managing the overlap of several short term circles, you just drop one longer term one. If anything, it raises the burden on those being healed. They need to learn to stack better, manage their own resources better, and slot heals/defenses for the verious boss fights that force them to spread out.

Because I can tell you as a templar, I'm just going drop a half dozen AoE heals and support skills in front of me, and then just spam breath and mutagen/rapid regen when needed like a potato. Maybe a warden can come along as a number 2 for some different AoE heals, but the rest of the classes can probably go ahead and delete healer from skill advisor.

gameswithaspoon

This is NOT a move for server stability or an introduction of new healing abilities. It’s the gutting of the one weapon out of 6 specifically designed for healing. And it’s halving and more than halving healing output in group content.

There are DPS players in this thread brushing off the changes because they have no idea how much buffing and layering goes on in group healing. Healers already layer other forms of healing and buffs with Restoration abilities and there are no AOE replacements.

This is the myth of Shor two years ago. People were like we will make the perfect land of small scale PVP with no raid healers. And a destroball guild rolled in and it was the meta while the small scale guilds cowered in terror and left. Because no small scale guild is going to counter 20 destro ultimates and 4 negates. Without medium sized guilds who can band together with those awful healing abilities, the win scenario will be bigger zergs.

KingExecration

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

KingExecration wrote: »

Pvp healer here. Already slapped 3 Swift on my bank mule Templar. I’ll miss you springs.

Love it when players just assume the writing is on the wall ...

If ZOS decides to roll back or revert the Springs changes before Live ... you’ll be out 150 transmute stones. Solely due to a knee-jerk reaction to the patch notes.

If only you understood what a joke is. And I assume the “writing on the wall” is because Zo$ has been known for changes like this that stick and make no sense. I take it you’re new to these parts having faith and being the “let it play out” kind of crowd.

Aznarb

Ishtharo wrote: »

I am glad that some classes have a replacement for Springs, such as Necro and NB, but the other classes require it in order to be effective. Templar, Marden, DK, and Sorc do not have a cost-effective spammable or filler skill.

I know the consensus is split on Regeneration. I prefer the double target just for time sake, and a higher chance for you to hit it on yourself.

Nb don't have replacement for spring...
Refreshing path is ridiculously tiny and sap essence cost alot for a very weak heal + have to be in the middle of the fight, not the best idea.
Their is a reason why every decent healer run spring : it was not an option for serious content.

Warden is the only class with a spammable almost as good as grand healing with budding seed.
All other class don't have this (necro have a good one but need corpse, so, not spamable).