Let's talk about the healing changes...

BigBragg

In general I think this is another case of ZOS trying to do too much at once. I completely understand that heals are overperforming and need adjustments. This approach is signature heavy handed moves by them.

Hulda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Lia4cqycs

This guy was ahead of time with his healing mechanics. Pretty sure he will be fine after next update. /s

Rustyfish101

SienneYviete wrote: »

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

akl77 wrote: »

I guess they are trying to change the scene of healing in eso, the two primary heal with spring and orbs are gone, in comes the combat prayer short distance heal and no much resources support where people have to self sustain, and heavy relies on blood alter cos no more cast time. It’s something very different indeed.

Spending all these years advising new healers to spam springs and orbs instead of combat prayer and BoL in their rotations and now i'm eating my words because of course it makes more sense to spam the buff heal and emergency heal! Silly me! sigh...

Why would you ever advise a healer to spam springs and not combat prayer.. orbs yeah but springs? it's been used as a crutch for far too long by terrible healers. This change to grand healing is fantastic imo the orbs change not so much.

in their rotation i had said i would never advise a healer to only use springs/illustrious

driosketch

@Jhalin
Thanks, I wasn't expecting it tonight, as I wasn't sure which Gina was real at one point.

It's not as bad as I thought by a hair, but it's still pretty baffling. It's like determining animation canceling is intended, and then adding a 1 sec global cool down to everything.

Halcyon_blue

I agree with the changes to an extent - however at this point not sure why we're all wasting oxygen speculating and gnashing teeth on something that hasn't even hit the PTS yet.

Really how appreciative of groups - and even ourselves - with a healing partner that thinks they're awesome spamming springs - not illustrious even, but springs?! It was a silly way to learn healing for many people in this game resulting in sub-optimal readiness for trials.

I also use illustrious and there are few situations where there aren't alternatives - and having it stack up to 4 times has never been a thing outside vcr / vhof excute phases and I would like to see how this operates on the PTS. I suspect ritual and altar bonuses will help offset this and am wondering if the co-efficient, such as through HOT heal CP, may influence the final number in a way not stated in the notes as yet.

In a 4 man, even in vet dlc hm, the healer right now is better off using Master Architect and Mother's Sorrow really - I might use 2 orbs (1 for each dps), and honestly that already fits with the patch before adjustments. In a bad pug I end up doing 50% group dps + 88%+ heals - in a good group or with guildies sustain is not an issue anyway in the sense of synergising orbs every cool down (esp if you're doing 25k+ dps as healer as well with crescent sweep to proc MA).

Orbs will be an interesting change and it's hard to see how it will survive the ambit notes without adjustment - but then pretending we're more 'skillful' by spamming orbs over illustrious as a general rule is somewhat of a furphy, let's be real.

There are some parts that *are* challenging to heal, but by and large a healer right now can get through vet craglorn without really learning how to play the class to it's fullest potential, causing shock and gap realisation once they hit vhof, vmol, vss and vcr - addressing this isn't a bad thing.

I've always been a fan of using Luminous Shards for the return and placement, and have had disgreements with other healers who are like, "but tank should just use orbs'. Shards are there for a reason, and the main concern here is to make certain other healing specs are able to provide an equivalent return (such as in the form of resource recovery increases on mushrooms etc... - which already exists but comparative implementation now needs to be thought about).

Rotation based on the patch notes will be easier and prima facie we'll see roughly 60% overheal reduction across the board and higher off-balance / minor beserk uptimes (exo-jorvuld). Again, let's test before we swoon onto our beds please.

The last consideration right now too is the vss sets currently - any magdps should be rocking PFG right now and if self-sustain is already up noticeably as a result. Depending on stam I'm wearing hircine now (I'd like my tanks to hurry up and farm that so I can wear torugs XD ) and on some fights my bubbles get popped as soon as I throw them - which means the singular orb change may not be as significantly different as it seems.

Stamdps sustain? Well we have hircine and god forbid we start taking Master's Resto out of the closet. Spamming 3 orbs from behind them in insta-pop synergy? Sounds very much like the current status quo in some setups already.

TLDR - before we start ripping our clothes and wailing while clutching our pearls, let's do some empirical testing on the aptly named PTS please. Also, the full nuances aren't being factored in isolation - I'd like to think that healers, by their nature, are more nuanced and thoughtful - these values are bad, so let's see how it goes.

TheNightflame

I'm glad I got relentless raider before this patch

Tsar_Gekkou

I'm also a healer main and this is looking kinda horrific. How can I heal the last boss of vHoF with only 1 spring at a time that's 44% weaker? How can I use that to heal Frostvault HM with that greasy defile? How about baneful in vCR? And imagine dps getting kicked from trials because they stole too many orbs from the Alkosh tank.

dcam86b14_ESO

yay! as a healer I can now watch so many die in pug NORMAL dungeons. It was hilarious watching them die before the change but now I'm going to be ROFL.

akl77

And when tank asked for an orb, and you casted it a bit off course, you gotta wait for the orb to dissolve then cast another one in the exact direction where the person asked for the orb. What a rip

wolfie1.0.

I'm just tired of them making changes all of the time. They never seem incremental and always seem random and all over the place. It's hard to keep up when every 6 months they are changing things so drastically.

Seraphayel

As a healer I am very pleased with the changes. Finally the mindless Healing Springs / Orb spam comes to an end, it was always a PITA and they decided to end this, thank you ZOS.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like everything about it. But it’s a necessary change and good for the game. I wish they would offer another semi-spammable healing skill though to compensate, e.g. making Mend Wounds useful or something like that.

deadvolt

This change has killed other class from healing because why would you have a non templar healer now with this change any reason I would like to hear it

FrancisCrawford

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

therift wrote: »

One orb at a time will cause a significant change in tactics. I'm going to have to slot Orb and Shards, maybe, or drop Orb, just to be sure I can get resource return to the tank. Going to have to think about this one.

What about the healers who aren't Templars?

I've healed on all six classes. Going forward I expect the count to be somewhere between 0 and 1.

Seraphayel

By the way, I just found this right now in the patch notes, we’re getting a new healing skill:

Fighter’s Guild - Circle of Protection, Ring of Preservation (morph): This morph no longer reduces the cost of Roll Dodge while in the area. Instead, it heals up to 6 friendly targets (yourself included) in the area every half second. The heal is based on our AoE HoT standards.

I don’t know what the last part is meant to say. I hope this scales of either Magicka or Stamina and heals for a considerable about. The changes to Healing Springs plus this new skill make it quite interesting to create new healer builds.

khajiitNPC

@Seraphayel yeah that’s an interesting change, I was kinda excited to see they reduced the cost but then got sad because they took away the Stam Regen and roll dodge reduction but then I was like The other morph is pretty cool because the fear now effects everything just not undead and werewolves. But yea I think it’ll be cool.

khajiitNPC

Also overwhelming surge returning magicka is a nice touch.

Massacre_Wurm

So what is the problem ? No orbs ? Dps will have to build more for sustain. Not the end of the world

Seraphayel

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Orb change is the single worst change in these notes. Healer role in this game requires providing buffs, and since they nerfed everyone's sustain in Morrowind, using orbs is pretty much mandatory.
That's what happens when people look at public logs and think "oh no, there's so much overhealing". If overhealing was the problem, they could've just reduced the healing component of both springs and orbs...

Healers are healers and not supporters / buffers. That’s the biggest problem in this game, healers are degraded to buff bots. That should have never been the case and that’s why the changes to Orb are actually good. Giving you buffs and resources is not the job of a healer. If you want that, build around it or get one supporter per group who’s specialized in doing that. I’m happy that healing becomes more difficult and less of an endless spam of Greater Healing / Orb.

darkblue5

I feel like the Springs change will ultimately be good but in the near term it will be quite the sea-change.

The orbs change is a vastly different beast. It isn't quite a sustain nerf for dps/tanks but it isn't quite not a sustain nerf. Orbs will be awkward in PUGs to put it lightly. That said when pugging your orbs are probably not the difference between a wipe and a clear anyways.
Maybe an ability to cancel and recast an active orb w/o consuming another global cool down would help. Feels like it'd favor templar healers a bit too heavily as is. I doubt it'll hit live as is.

akl77

Seraphayel wrote: »

As a healer I am very pleased with the changes. Finally the mindless Healing Springs / Orb spam comes to an end, it was always a PITA and they decided to end this, thank you ZOS.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like everything about it. But it’s a necessary change and good for the game. I wish they would offer another semi-spammable healing skill though to compensate, e.g. making Mend Wounds useful or something like that.

It’s not bcos we wanted to spam orbs ( I don’t spam springs unless I need resources back), spam orbs is cos the resources for everyone is bad in long fights, just one orb up at a time called good healing? I’m not sold

Kolzki

Wonders if raid dummy parses with lokestiiz and a spear synergy every 20 seconds are at all meaningful now.

Seraphayel

akl77 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

As a healer I am very pleased with the changes. Finally the mindless Healing Springs / Orb spam comes to an end, it was always a PITA and they decided to end this, thank you ZOS.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like everything about it. But it’s a necessary change and good for the game. I wish they would offer another semi-spammable healing skill though to compensate, e.g. making Mend Wounds useful or something like that.

It’s not bcos we wanted to spam orbs ( I don’t spam springs unless I need resources back), spam orbs is cos the resources for everyone is bad in long fights, just one orb up at a time called good healing? I’m not sold

Well then dear players build for more sustain and don’t rely on the healer / others to fix your sustain problems. It’s that easy.

mocap

tanks may have orbs as well. I think it will be new meta for them. At least for heavy mag regen tanks.

Nitribit

MojaveHeld wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

The orb changes do hurt — but we will adapt like we always have.

Do you work for Zenimax?

Wouldn't be a surprise in the slightest if they did, this user has been on just about any thread made on the topic tonight loudly cheering the changes and insulting everyone who dislikes them.

There are no changes yet.

Raisin

The grand healing and rapid regen changes I don't like, but I can live with. The orbs thing is an atrocious idea. The notes talk so much about classifying things as some, dot, spammable etc. (Which is already a bad idea in itself -- making hybrids of these groups is how to make skills INTERESTING. You're just going the extra mile to make everything bland), but take away healing spammable?
Take away the heal, make it limited to a smaller number, IDC, but we've got 12 people to take care off! (PvE)
The orbs may be more likely to get caught if they move slower, but once one is not caught you gotta wait for it to despawn to try again. And as many as said, this really comes in favor of fights where the entire group is just stacked, so it's like some dreadful foreshadowing of more bland boss fights to come. Who's allergic to having strategies and positioning to create actually engaging gameplay? :X I don't want to imagine trying to send my single orb when I'm actually at range, or the rest of my group is. It's just sad.
I don't know, I'm sure we're all overreacting as always. But healing is one of the things I find genuinely fun.

Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.

ArcaneBlue

this is going to screw so many healers over especially non templars. as a warden healer I don't have an access to shards/bol so I have to throw orbs left and right to effectively heal and provide resources at the same time. what with all the healing nerfs and all, and DOT nerfs, I really am questioning, does this benefit anybody at all?

usmcjdking

Orb needs to be outright reworked IMO. Change is fine in concept, but there have been times where I launched an orb in the wrong *** direction and that *** ain't ever gonna get synergized.

Point target ground hot with a floating bubble would be better suited - like a big green Lord Warden ball.

sevomd69

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@david_m_18b16_ESO you do realize that a very small percentage of the population comes to the forums correct?

We see this sort of doomsaying all the times. I’ve been around since UO. It will be fine. The good players will adapt. The bad players will watch a YouTube video. Cheers.

I say all the time that the forum community and the in game community differs on their outlook of the game...BUT...this time...in game community and forum community seem to feel the same about these new changes...20K nerf to DPS...lol...better get those DD titles now..while it's easy...just saying...

Seraphayel

Raisin wrote: »

Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.

You see they’re trying to solve this riddle: healers are healers and not buffers or second DPS. By changing several healing abilities and the changes to resource generating skills healing will become more difficult, e.g. healers will have to do more healing. This results in DPS to self-sustain instead of rely on the healer OR there will be a completely new role of the supporting DPS / buffer / pure supporter.

iLLcrime

Seraphayel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.

You see they’re trying to solve this riddle: healers are healers and not buffers or second DPS. By changing several healing abilities and the changes to resource generating skills healing will become more difficult, e.g. healers will have to do more healing. This results in DPS to self-sustain instead of rely on the healer OR there will be a completely new role of the supporting DPS / buffer / pure supporter.

Except the way it'll end up working now is healers will be forced into a Worm/Hircines build to cater to the DPS like always.