Let's talk about the healing changes...

Rustyfish101

As a healer main I must say I'm very worried about the changes to healing in this coming patch.

Only one grand healing (plus morphs) at a time is a huge nerf. Don't get me wrong healers have had this coming for a long time, our heals have always been pretty OP but what made grand healing (plus morphs) so effective was its ability to stack. At the moment it heals for about 2-3k per second every 4 seconds for Illustrious Healing (this is the example I'll use since it's what is currently best) depending on the points you have into various things that affect healing such as spell damage and Blessed. If we were to be spamming just Illustrious we'd be stacking it causing it to heal for roughly 6-12k per second (again depending on the healer and points dedicated to making the heals powerful). Which while overpowered is necessary sometimes for especially difficult fights in endgame PvE such as DLC dungeons and trials (vCR/vHoF anyone?).

Don't even get me started on orbs as well. Same thing with it being a pretty powerful heal + resource restore, its totally reasonable that it'd get nerfed at some point, but to have only one at a time? Many people rely heavily on orbs for resources in order to get the DPS needed to clear end game PvE these days. Limiting it to one at a time will have the DPS going nuts for the now rare synergy in a 12 person trial.

I feel this was a huge oversight caused by a lack of hindsight of someone who doesn't understand how important these things are in PvE. Please reconsider these changes, I'm worried some content will simply become unbeatable unless everyone starts healing themselves (in which case who needs a healer am I right?). There needs to be a better way to balance healing without taking away the purpose of a healer in the first place.

CP5

I would love to see a dev run of say, vHoF hm with this change.

iLLcrime

This patch ruins healing on so many levels.. disgusted to no end. RIP

akl77

I guess they are trying to change the scene of healing in eso, the two primary heal with spring and orbs are gone, in comes the combat prayer short distance heal and no much resources support where people have to self sustain, and heavy relies on blood alter cos no more cast time. It’s something very different indeed.

khajiitNPC

Healing will be fine. The biggest problem with TESO for healing is that there was too much overhealing. I suspect this will be a good thing and make healers more of necessity to mid tier players. Right now most content is a face roll. Good all around.

LadyNalcarya

Orb change is the single worst change in these notes. Healer role in this game requires providing buffs, and since they nerfed everyone's sustain in Morrowind, using orbs is pretty much mandatory.
That's what happens when people look at public logs and think "oh no, there's so much overhealing". If overhealing was the problem, they could've just reduced the healing component of both springs and orbs...

Rustyfish101

akl77 wrote: »

I guess they are trying to change the scene of healing in eso, the two primary heal with spring and orbs are gone, in comes the combat prayer short distance heal and no much resources support where people have to self sustain, and heavy relies on blood alter cos no more cast time. It’s something very different indeed.

Spending all these years advising new healers to spam springs and orbs instead of combat prayer and BoL in their rotations and now i'm eating my words because of course it makes more sense to spam the buff heal and emergency heal! Silly me! sigh...

Rustyfish101

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Healing will be fine. The biggest problem with TESO for healing is that there was too much overhealing. I suspect this will be a good thing and make healers more of necessity to mid tier players. Right now most content is a face roll. Good all around.

I take it you don't play a healer role competitively. Over healing isn't a problem, it only seems that way because it happens through our buffs such as orbs cause DPS and Tanks need resources and combat prayer.

Hexquisite

Yeah I am nervous about this as well, and I mainly pvp...in non stationary groups that move fast. For those not familiar with pvp battle spirt cuts the heal in half, and then the "new" version will cut it 44%.... I still PVE as well, and I just can't see doing some content, esp with pugs, without stacking springs. Also, it has seemed for years that Healing Springs is the only thing that works realiably in lag because of the stacking.

AS to overhealing, so many of our sets proc off of healing, and you want those procs before going into battle. yes i am going to cast HOTS on people that don't need heals so they get the buffs.

LadyNalcarya

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Healing will be fine. The biggest problem with TESO for healing is that there was too much overhealing. I suspect this will be a good thing and make healers more of necessity to mid tier players. Right now most content is a face roll. Good all around.

I take it you don't play a healer role competitively. Over healing isn't a problem, it only seems that way because it happens through our buffs such as orbs cause DPS and Tanks need resources and combat prayer.

Ironically, "overhealing" will still be happening because of combat prayer...
And of course, top raiding guilds will adapt (if they decide to stay). But seeing how average players are struggling with content, I don't think that blanket nerfs are good for the health of the game. I mean, of course, top leaderboard runs would have tons of overhealing because they don't take excessive damage and have all the buffs. But for an average player beating vMA is an accomplishment, and stuff like vCR is certainly not easy to heal through.

khajiitNPC

@LadyNalcarya then the average player needs to get gud.

LadyNalcarya

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@LadyNalcarya then the average player needs to get gud.

I don't disagree.
But that's the reality, every time they release a new dungeon or something, people want it nerfed. People are scared of dlc dungeons in random queue. People still struggle with Maelstrom (even though it was released in 2015).
So I think that nerfing players that are already struggling is not a good idea. This game is an mmo, and it relies on recurring players.

Pevey

These can’t even really be called balance changes. Across the board, both damage and sustain will be lower. Is there even any precedent for another game doing this all at once? Even the infamous Morrowind sustain nerfs just hit sustain, not base damage.

david_m_18b16_ESO

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@LadyNalcarya then the average player needs to get gud.

I hope you can spend a lot of cash on crates tomake it for the lost of players.

khajiitNPC

@david_m_18b16_ESO you do realize that a very small percentage of the population comes to the forums correct?

We see this sort of doomsaying all the times. I’ve been around since UO. It will be fine. The good players will adapt. The bad players will watch a YouTube video. Cheers.

david_m_18b16_ESO

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@david_m_18b16_ESO you do realize that a very small percentage of the population comes to the forums correct?

We see this sort of doomsaying all the times. I’ve been around since UO. It will be fine. The good players will adapt. The bad players will watch a YouTube video. Cheers.

What player % that comes to forum have to do ?

Tell that to blizzard and how they have lost millions of players. And a big part came here.

Trust me, ZOS dont want to loose them.

UntilValhalla13

It's truly baffling with some of the proposed changes. I mean, the people creating these changes have clearly never healed any hm/ endgame content. Healing vhof, for example, is going to be ridiculous. Hard titles like Tick Tock or Godslayer will be literal impossibilities on console. Sustain will be so terrible.

But hey, you can BUY skill lines for alts. That's what matters, right? Not that people would need alts, at that point, if half the game is pointless.

khajiitNPC

Doom gloom, sky is falling, yadda yadda. When the made the sustain changes in morrowind same thing. Nerfmire. Same thing. Most players are casual and aren’t going to care, another group of players will be top tier and will get through it, and the last group will cry those salty Lorkhan tears but will eventually watch a YouTube video and be happy again.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

The Orb change is going to kill resource restoration. Even 4 person Vet runs are going to suffer. Looks like DPS will have to build more for sustain now than ever before.

Good luck all....

driosketch

Big picture time, edit: so changes where true.

-One instance of grand healing
-Rapid regen/mutagen edit: single target
-One slower orb

Together with combat prayer, these all promote stack and burn play, which is usually done to power through fights while ignoring mechanics. This also means greater reliance on class heals, and therefore favors the classes with more robust heal lines.

So two take aways. Edit: ZOS has apparently decided to abandon spread out mechanics and making all classes capable of all roles, a huge revesal of their past design philosophies. Expect every trial run to have at least one Templar. Also expect to spam breath and shards more often.

Jhalin

@driosketch
All of the 5.0.1 changes are in the PTS forums, basically exactly how they were leaked

SienneYviete

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

akl77 wrote: »

I guess they are trying to change the scene of healing in eso, the two primary heal with spring and orbs are gone, in comes the combat prayer short distance heal and no much resources support where people have to self sustain, and heavy relies on blood alter cos no more cast time. It’s something very different indeed.

Spending all these years advising new healers to spam springs and orbs instead of combat prayer and BoL in their rotations and now i'm eating my words because of course it makes more sense to spam the buff heal and emergency heal! Silly me! sigh...

Why would you ever advise a healer to spam springs and not combat prayer.. orbs yeah but springs? it's been used as a crutch for far too long by terrible healers. This change to grand healing is fantastic imo the orbs change not so much.

khajiitNPC

The orb changes do hurt — but we will adapt like we always have.

DisgracefulMind

Can't wait to see the devs heal through vCR HM execute with these heal changes! Or the vHoF execute! Or all the Sanctum trash! Let's go, when's the stream?

halucin0g3n

As a main healer i know one thing. I won't heal no more. I don't want to struggle with player frustration because i gave the Orb to the other guy, why not to him, why am i not healing him etc. I'd rather be DPS and wait for someone else take the blame.

DisgracefulMind

halucin0g3n wrote: »

As a main healer i know one thing. I won't heal no more. I don't want to struggle with player frustration because i gave the Orb to the other guy, why not to him, why am i not healing him etc. I'd rather be DPS and wait for someone else take the blame.

Kind of my opinion on it. These just made healing wayyyy too much of a potential anxiety attack.

fastolfv_ESO

i said this in another thread but pve healing has always been massive amounts of overhealing, now in pvp where numbers are halved were going to be screwed royally. It will just push people into the heavy meta more and to clump even more into faction stacks

therift

One orb at a time will cause a significant change in tactics. I'm going to have to slot Orb and Shards, maybe, or drop Orb, just to be sure I can get resource return to the tank. Going to have to think about this one.

DisgracefulMind

therift wrote: »

One orb at a time will cause a significant change in tactics. I'm going to have to slot Orb and Shards, maybe, or drop Orb, just to be sure I can get resource return to the tank. Going to have to think about this one.

What about the healers who aren't Templars?

TheNightflame

night blade healers op

halucin0g3n

With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.