The Amount of CC in this game removes most of the skill factor from the game in non cp pvp.

  • Illuvatarr
    Illuvatarr
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    CC, combined with surprise/initiative, is king in every MMO's PvP.

    Part of the reason is that "mobs" in PvP (i.e., player characters) don't have 35k - 100k - 1.8M+ HP so they don't have any real ability to survive it.
    In PvE against NPCs and monsters you don't even need any CC because you can burn down those numbers fast enough. It's no wonder why CC helps players burst down other players with little resistance from them when players have less HP than most of the weakest monsters -- and why people want to use it.

    And if you change this, there will be a lot of whining from people who have already followed an online guide to making a PvP clone that uses CC.
    Unless you have a magical way to actually make PvP interesting, complaining about CC just isn't going to get anywhere. Even if it gets nerfed/ reduced/removed, that'll just get people pointing to how it exists in other games.

    Because -- ULTIMATELY -- what PvP is really about, is players wanting to kill other players with no resistance like bullies beating on a baby. And if you even suggest taking anything away from their ability to gank like that, they whine. Their wet dream is to be able to use the Blade of Woe on other players.



    Edited by Illuvatarr on June 28, 2019 10:13AM
  • stritzi
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    The best solution imo would be a third ressource, let us call it endurance, that ressource should be not tied to magicka or stamina. Give it a flat value and regen for all kind of characters, so everyone hast to play with the same cards. Rolldodge and breakfree cost reduction should affect it, so ppl can optimize their build in this direction. It probably would be necessary to adjust some sets, to make them accessible for magicka builds.
  • ImSoPro
    ImSoPro
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    The amount of CC in this game and the ability for anyone with a pulse in a crowd to spam it over and over again is what has removed the skill quotient from the game.

    The CP system is most probably the reason from a development standpoint that all of this CC was introduced to so many classes and on so many skills so that you could actually kill people using the broken item sets, broken abilities and broken mechanics introduced by the developers themselves.

    The fact that roots and stuns are on the same timer make it nearly impossible for any player to do anything against a crowd but die because they just need to run you out of stamina by spamming it to kill you. This is why you have stamina toons with speed buffs running around in towers building ultimate so they can kill people. It is silly and stupid.

    Its broken on a core and fundamental level. I hope they change alot of this with the passing of the CP system.

    Yeah I agree with you. The CC on this game is out of control - especially when they stack snares and stuns on you. Magicka classes just don't have enough stamina to counter it. If it wasn't for mist form I would never get to move on this game. And standing still on this game's PvP pretty much = death since players love to stack ground effects and chain ultimates.

    Originally magicka classes had the option to use unstoppable - which enabled them to preemptively use their stamina to ward off CC effects. They should have never changed that.

    Keep that handy dandy race against time. 2 sec snare immunity
  • rumple9
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    Loremasters in LOTRO have 30 second stuns
  • idk
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    The game is based on rotation as opposed to being a skilled fighter

    Pretty much you described pretty much every MMORPG in history. The issue is the CC coupled with a short TTK.
    Really, idk
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    stritzi wrote: »
    The best solution imo would be a third ressource, let us call it endurance, that ressource should be not tied to magicka or stamina. Give it a flat value and regen for all kind of characters, so everyone hast to play with the same cards. Rolldodge and breakfree cost reduction should affect it, so ppl can optimize their build in this direction. It probably would be necessary to adjust some sets, to make them accessible for magicka builds.

    I would posit a simpler solution. A single ability slot, perhaps right next to the potion slot or ultimate slot that is used exclusively to slot a unique CC break. Said unique CC break skill could belong to an implemented new skill line with 4 or 5 CC break skills each with a unique perk attached to them such as a heal over time on use, or ult gen on use etc etc. Players would then select whichever unique CC break ability best suits their build. Every one of these unique CC break skills has a built in CD (not dissimilar to how pots work) qnd when using them, along with breaking you free, you are granted CC immunity for a few seconds just like it is on live. Then apply diminishing returns to all hard CCs.

    The main issue then is that you would have to rebalance all the hard CCs in the game, likely in casting cost, to create an environment where poor use of your CCs would hit your resource pool harder if you aren't exercising prudence when keeping in mind your targets CC break ability use.

    Idk... something along those lines.
    Edited by exeeter702 on June 28, 2019 7:11PM
  • danwtayl
    danwtayl
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    CC's in this game are out of control... ZOS needs to understand that it is not fun to not have control over your character for large periods of time. It's not as evident in equal numbers fights but much more so when going against a larger number of enemies. In zergs (which pretty much all you face now days) you have people who do nothing but spam CC's. This is no downside for them not. Most cc skills have a damage component and they are not overly costly. This leads to you being CC'd the instance your immunity is up. If you are spending most of your time spamming RAT, etc. You can't begin to counter or go on the offense and will ultimately run out of resources and die. Throw the current game performance on top of this. It's enough to make me want to smash my controller...

    I want to see all CC's lose their damage component and/or not be castable on cc immuned targets. ZOS already does this on some CC skills. This would stop the spamming of these skills.

    Also I like to see the removal of all cases of unblockable and undodgeable skills... Looking at you fossalize.
  • red_emu
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    We simply need CC break to scale off the highest stat. That would solve a lot of issues for Magica builds in non-CP.
    PC - EU:
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    Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
    Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
  • Insco851
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    First it was snares, now they are after the only way to kill anything in the current meta... CC.
  • Xvorg
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    This game is slowly evolving into a FPS. Without CC and snares, playing melee is just pointless.
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
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    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Anti_Virus
    Anti_Virus
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    fighting a magicka dk is cancer with all the snares, roots, and CCs they have
    Edited by Anti_Virus on June 29, 2019 4:11AM
    Power Wealth And Influence.
  • Chelo
    Chelo
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    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    The amount of CC in this game and the ability for anyone with a pulse in a crowd to spam it over and over again is what has removed the skill quotient from the game.

    The CP system is most probably the reason from a development standpoint that all of this CC was introduced to so many classes and on so many skills so that you could actually kill people using the broken item sets, broken abilities and broken mechanics introduced by the developers themselves.

    The fact that roots and stuns are on the same timer make it nearly impossible for any player to do anything against a crowd but die because they just need to run you out of stamina by spamming it to kill you. This is why you have stamina toons with speed buffs running around in towers building ultimate so they can kill people. It is silly and stupid.

    Its broken on a core and fundamental level. I hope they change alot of this with the passing of the CP system.

    So let me get this, you are mad because you can't beat everyone?... You realize you are not supposed to beat entire groups of players by yourself alone right? Only exceptionall players manage to actually 1vX entire groups and they show a huge skill gap between the players they are fighting anyway...
  • susmitds
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    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    fighting a magicka dk is cancer with all the snares, roots, and CCs they have

    You
  • Illuvatarr
    Illuvatarr
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    Chelo wrote: »
    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    The amount of CC in this game and the ability for anyone with a pulse in a crowd to spam it over and over again is what has removed the skill quotient from the game.

    The CP system is most probably the reason from a development standpoint that all of this CC was introduced to so many classes and on so many skills so that you could actually kill people using the broken item sets, broken abilities and broken mechanics introduced by the developers themselves.

    The fact that roots and stuns are on the same timer make it nearly impossible for any player to do anything against a crowd but die because they just need to run you out of stamina by spamming it to kill you. This is why you have stamina toons with speed buffs running around in towers building ultimate so they can kill people. It is silly and stupid.

    Its broken on a core and fundamental level. I hope they change alot of this with the passing of the CP system.

    So let me get this, you are mad because you can't beat everyone?... You realize you are not supposed to beat entire groups of players by yourself alone right? Only exceptionall players manage to actually 1vX entire groups and they show a huge skill gap between the players they are fighting anyway...

    Quite a few huge assumptions here. Not mad, not concerned I can’t beat 10 players at once. Never said either of those things.

    I did say I think it is poor balancing and there is way too much cc (hard and soft). I think there is a need for it but it should be used in combinations to kill people, not spammed to remove a skill factor. You should have to know your class and when to use cc to be able to use it and it should only be useable in skillful combination with your other skills to get a killing blow. Spammable cc is an X factor in the wrong direction. The best example I can give is 1vxing and there is a bow nightblade spamming draining shot over and over while you are fighting other players. The person spamming it should be forced to use other skills. (you could sub in destructive touch if you like for draining shot).

    Quantum leap from the assumptive silliness you just posted.

    Edited by Illuvatarr on June 29, 2019 5:47PM
  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    Chelo wrote: »
    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    The amount of CC in this game and the ability for anyone with a pulse in a crowd to spam it over and over again is what has removed the skill quotient from the game.

    The CP system is most probably the reason from a development standpoint that all of this CC was introduced to so many classes and on so many skills so that you could actually kill people using the broken item sets, broken abilities and broken mechanics introduced by the developers themselves.

    The fact that roots and stuns are on the same timer make it nearly impossible for any player to do anything against a crowd but die because they just need to run you out of stamina by spamming it to kill you. This is why you have stamina toons with speed buffs running around in towers building ultimate so they can kill people. It is silly and stupid.

    Its broken on a core and fundamental level. I hope they change alot of this with the passing of the CP system.

    So let me get this, you are mad because you can't beat everyone?... You realize you are not supposed to beat entire groups of players by yourself alone right? Only exceptionall players manage to actually 1vX entire groups and they show a huge skill gap between the players they are fighting anyway...

    Quite a few huge assumptions here. Not mad, not concerned I can’t beat 10 players at once. Never said either of those things.

    I did say I think it is poor balancing and there is way too much cc (hard and soft). I think there is a need for it but it should be used in combinations to kill people, not spammed to remove a skill factor. You should have to know your class and when to use cc to be able to use it and it should only be useable in skillful combination with your other skills to get a killing blow. Spammable cc is an X factor in the wrong direction. The best example I can give is 1vxing and there is a bow nightblade spamming draining shot over and over while you are fighting other players. The person spamming it should be forced to use other skills. (you could sub in destructive touch if you like for draining shot).

    Quantum leap from the assumptive silliness you just posted.

    Giving good players CC immunity without kill potential is one of the worst things you can do.... but heeeey
  • Seraphayel
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    It’s just too much of everything. Stuns, snares, roots, fears, more snares and roots... it isn’t fun and you don’t use those things tactically like in other games where you have a CD on those skills and need to plan out. Here you basically spam them all the time.
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    Xbox One X (EU)
  • Chelo
    Chelo
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    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    Chelo wrote: »
    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    The amount of CC in this game and the ability for anyone with a pulse in a crowd to spam it over and over again is what has removed the skill quotient from the game.

    The CP system is most probably the reason from a development standpoint that all of this CC was introduced to so many classes and on so many skills so that you could actually kill people using the broken item sets, broken abilities and broken mechanics introduced by the developers themselves.

    The fact that roots and stuns are on the same timer make it nearly impossible for any player to do anything against a crowd but die because they just need to run you out of stamina by spamming it to kill you. This is why you have stamina toons with speed buffs running around in towers building ultimate so they can kill people. It is silly and stupid.

    Its broken on a core and fundamental level. I hope they change alot of this with the passing of the CP system.

    So let me get this, you are mad because you can't beat everyone?... You realize you are not supposed to beat entire groups of players by yourself alone right? Only exceptionall players manage to actually 1vX entire groups and they show a huge skill gap between the players they are fighting anyway...

    Quite a few huge assumptions here. Not mad, not concerned I can’t beat 10 players at once. Never said either of those things.

    I did say I think it is poor balancing and there is way too much cc (hard and soft). I think there is a need for it but it should be used in combinations to kill people, not spammed to remove a skill factor. You should have to know your class and when to use cc to be able to use it and it should only be useable in skillful combination with your other skills to get a killing blow. Spammable cc is an X factor in the wrong direction. The best example I can give is 1vxing and there is a bow nightblade spamming draining shot over and over while you are fighting other players. The person spamming it should be forced to use other skills. (you could sub in destructive touch if you like for draining shot).

    Quantum leap from the assumptive silliness you just posted.

    In the same example, how the hell do I suppose to kill someone who can perma Roll Dodge without me using cc? If they remove or rework cc, they will have to add a CD on roll dodging or give us some undodgeable skills (rather than just Soul Assault).

    CCs like Fear are needed to kill those who can perma Block and perma Roll Dodge.

    You said there's is too much cc in this game, but there's also super easier ways to avoid dmg.

    If they remove/rework cc, they will have to also rework the basic defensive mechanics (roll dodge an blocking).
  • Anti_Virus
    Anti_Virus
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    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lowering the damage.
    Edited by Anti_Virus on June 30, 2019 4:47AM
    Power Wealth And Influence.
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    I've been enjoying pvp in different games , staying away from here because . This game is too annoying to deal with cc on top of lag , 160 ping and loading screens longer then any cc immunity here . Broken system ran by novices in the game industry .
  • Chelo
    Chelo
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    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lower the damage.

    So if you are a Rolly Polly, I will have to use full AoE dmg skills or wait 12 to cc you and actually been able to hit you with a single dmg skill for the second you are cc?...

    I repeat, CCs are necessary to kill those who can perma Roll Dodge and perma Block... You need that burst window were they are unable to defend...
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Illuvatarr wrote: »
    The amount of CC in this game and the ability for anyone with a pulse in a crowd to spam it over and over again is what has removed the skill quotient from the game.

    The CP system is most probably the reason from a development standpoint that all of this CC was introduced to so many classes and on so many skills so that you could actually kill people using the broken item sets, broken abilities and broken mechanics introduced by the developers themselves.

    The fact that roots and stuns are on the same timer make it nearly impossible for any player to do anything against a crowd but die because they just need to run you out of stamina by spamming it to kill you. This is why you have stamina toons with speed buffs running around in towers building ultimate so they can kill people. It is silly and stupid.

    Its broken on a core and fundamental level. I hope they change alot of this with the passing of the CP system.

    Hmm, I think lag is the real gamebreaker that removes the value of skill. And to that all I can say is pray to the internet gods each night.
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  • ChunkyCat
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    Some people have been watching way too many carefully edited 1vX YouTube videos.
  • Chelo
    Chelo
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    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    Some people have been watching way too many carefully edited 1vX YouTube videos.

    Hahahahaha exactly what I thought XD
  • Anti_Virus
    Anti_Virus
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    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lower the damage.

    So if you are a Rolly Polly, I will have to use full AoE dmg skills or wait 12 to cc you and actually been able to hit you with a single dmg skill for the second you are cc?...

    I repeat, CCs are necessary to kill those who can perma Roll Dodge and perma Block... You need that burst window were they are unable to defend...

    No one can perma roll, or block.
    Power Wealth And Influence.
  • Chelo
    Chelo
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    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lower the damage.

    So if you are a Rolly Polly, I will have to use full AoE dmg skills or wait 12 to cc you and actually been able to hit you with a single dmg skill for the second you are cc?...

    I repeat, CCs are necessary to kill those who can perma Roll Dodge and perma Block... You need that burst window were they are unable to defend...

    No one can perma roll, or block.

    Yeah they can and it's actually pretty easy, same as MagNB can perma Stealth and MagSorcs can perma Shields, it's simple...
  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lower the damage.

    So if you are a Rolly Polly, I will have to use full AoE dmg skills or wait 12 to cc you and actually been able to hit you with a single dmg skill for the second you are cc?...

    I repeat, CCs are necessary to kill those who can perma Roll Dodge and perma Block... You need that burst window were they are unable to defend...

    Only poorly built toons are getting Stam broke from CC spam anyways. No kill potential and you CC’d them? Free immunity to combo with an immove pot- the pressure is coming and you can’t stop it now for 15~ seconds. Good luck with that verse a good player.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Insco851 wrote: »
    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lower the damage.

    So if you are a Rolly Polly, I will have to use full AoE dmg skills or wait 12 to cc you and actually been able to hit you with a single dmg skill for the second you are cc?...

    I repeat, CCs are necessary to kill those who can perma Roll Dodge and perma Block... You need that burst window were they are unable to defend...

    Only poorly built toons are getting Stam broke from CC spam anyways. No kill potential and you CC’d them? Free immunity to combo with an immove pot- the pressure is coming and you can’t stop it now for 15~ seconds. Good luck with that verse a good player.

    Inmovable pots make you a good player?
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

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    In the wrong house
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    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lower the damage.

    So if you are a Rolly Polly, I will have to use full AoE dmg skills or wait 12 to cc you and actually been able to hit you with a single dmg skill for the second you are cc?...

    I repeat, CCs are necessary to kill those who can perma Roll Dodge and perma Block... You need that burst window were they are unable to defend...

    No one can perma roll, or block.

    Yeah they can and it's actually pretty easy, same as MagNB can perma Stealth and MagSorcs can perma Shields, it's simple...

    No they can't. No one can perma roll.

    Shields aren't limited to sorc?

    Perma block is a certain build which is usually some zerg build with little to no dmg.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


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  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Insco851 wrote: »
    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lower the damage.

    So if you are a Rolly Polly, I will have to use full AoE dmg skills or wait 12 to cc you and actually been able to hit you with a single dmg skill for the second you are cc?...

    I repeat, CCs are necessary to kill those who can perma Roll Dodge and perma Block... You need that burst window were they are unable to defend...

    Only poorly built toons are getting Stam broke from CC spam anyways. No kill potential and you CC’d them? Free immunity to combo with an immove pot- the pressure is coming and you can’t stop it now for 15~ seconds. Good luck with that verse a good player.

    Inmovable pots make you a good player?

    Not what was said. But 15-16~ Seconds of cc immunity on a good player is tough to defend against. And willy nilly hard CC’s isn’t the best strategy.

    But I also doubt average or bad players have the wherewithal to use immov pots right after a natural CC immunity to maximize that window.
    Edited by Insco851 on July 3, 2019 11:53PM
  • Anti_Virus
    Anti_Virus
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    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Chelo wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Imo they should increase CC immunity from 6 secs to 12

    Or

    Make all abilities that purely CC have a high magicka/Stamina cost, while lower the damage.

    So if you are a Rolly Polly, I will have to use full AoE dmg skills or wait 12 to cc you and actually been able to hit you with a single dmg skill for the second you are cc?...

    I repeat, CCs are necessary to kill those who can perma Roll Dodge and perma Block... You need that burst window were they are unable to defend...

    No one can perma roll, or block.

    Yeah they can and it's actually pretty easy, same as MagNB can perma Stealth and MagSorcs can perma Shields, it's simple...

    Perma stealth and shield yeah, but not perma roll/block
    Power Wealth And Influence.
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