ESO is a pay to win game and here's why

Thorvik_Tyrson

Delparis wrote: »

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

No, that is pay to advance faster, and not pay to win. A lot of people that I run into in other games don't understand the difference and their definition is "spend money =pay 2 win" as that is all that they understand.

Please explain how you win anything by purchasing riding lessons?

You ride faster so you move faster from keep to keep to defend or attack it.
You can jump to a location before the player who started playing at the same time as you. So you can get more xp more loot and die less since you can run faster.
Meanwhile the other dude struggle with his dead horse.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your logic. Everything that you described to me sounds like pay to advance faster, and not pay to win. Buying the riding lessons does not guarantee that you are going to win. I still contend that it is pay to advance faster and not pay to win. In my case, it would be pay to get ganked faster. :-) I.E. I might arrive at that keep ahead of the other noob that started on the same day that I did, but I get whacked by a long time player that started years before I did. Your example would only apply in a 1v1 match, and your not talking about a 1v1 match against another noob player, so I say that also invalidates your argument. The game isn't brand new, and your really just paying to catch up to the other existing players at this point in time.

As others have stated elsewhere in this thread, if it is something that you can do in game, and you are purchasing something that advances you to that catch up point in the game and saves you the time spent to get there, that is pay to advance faster, and not pay to win.

The DK Experience did a good write up of explaining pay to advance versus pay to win in comment #82.

rotaugen454

Kalgert wrote: »

Just to remind people that this is the same... Person(?) who decided it'd be a cool and smart idea to go and throw games in Battlegrounds.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/479884/to-every-eu-pc-bg-player/p1

Your opinions carry no value.

Thanks for pointing that out. I’d say its another person’s opinions to ignore on the forums but the posts they’ve done make it obvious anyway.

stpdmonkey

Gilvoth wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

The moment players were able to sell crowns for gold the game become pay to win.

Thanks to crowns, any noob with enough cash can buy let's say 5k crown for 35€ then sell them on the market for 1.5 million gold.

With that gold he can buy:

1. Spell strategist jewelry and inferno infused staff all legendary.
2. Mother's sorrow light gear divine legendary.
3. a Skoria shoulder divine (luck)
4. carry in vCoA 2 for skoria helm divine.

are you suggesting that if he owns those things, that makes him winner in both pvp and pve?
because that would be false.

owning those things does not let you win anything in eso.

In the end I guess it depends on your definition of winning in eso. If winning is owning atleast 1 of everything and having every achievement whether earned or not then yes it can be pay to win. May take years to collect everything since some stuff is only seasonal. But sure why not. That just means you pay more to zos and stay longer. Win for them. No skin off any other players back.

jircris11

Delparis wrote: »

The moment players were able to sell crowns for gold the game become pay to win.

Thanks to crowns, any noob with enough cash can buy let's say 5k crown for 35€ then sell them on the market for 1.5 million gold.

With that gold he can buy:

1. Spell strategist jewelry and inferno infused staff all legendary.
2. Mother's sorrow light gear divine legendary.
3. a Skoria shoulder divine (luck)
4. carry in vCoA 2 for skoria helm divine.

He can also pay for another 5k crown to get carried in vet trial for skins (vMoL, vHoF) and the gear their.

The loosers are the players with not enough wallet (and luck) who spend most of their time farming and improving in the game.
The winners are the noobs with real cash but also Zenimax who get all the cash.

Well done Zenimax this is a good way to destroy what is left of your game.

This is not p2w, as there is no ACTUAL system to selling crowns. It's no different then buying from gold sellers. Now if the crown store sold these items and it gave you an advantage. AND the only way to get them was with real money THAT is p2w.

jadarock

Coggage wrote: »

Pay to win what exactly?

Engagements with enemies.
Please stop trolling.

Just because some people can kill others while naked and others need all the help they can get and still struggle to be successful doesn't mean it's not p2w or pay for an advantageous position.
We all understand the player still has to go out and perform but Eso+ ,OP dlc gear ,skills or anything that speeds up leveling is in fact a form of p2w or pay for advantage. Idk how you can argue otherwise its nonsensical imo

Waffennacht

I spent real money to advance a fantasy world, "winning"

Alright. To me "winning" would be the gents making real money out of this transaction, but that's me...

As for p2w, I think of it as; when I pay money I have an advantage unobtainable by those whom do not spend money. If money just cuts out time to earn; I do not consider that p2w.... It's more like pay to play

Tandor

Delparis wrote: »

The moment players were able to sell crowns for gold the game become pay to win.

Thanks to crowns, any noob with enough cash can buy let's say 5k crown for 35€ then sell them on the market for 1.5 million gold.

With that gold he can buy:

1. Spell strategist jewelry and inferno infused staff all legendary.
2. Mother's sorrow light gear divine legendary.
3. a Skoria shoulder divine (luck)
4. carry in vCoA 2 for skoria helm divine.

He can also pay for another 5k crown to get carried in vet trial for skins (vMoL, vHoF) and the gear their.

The loosers are the players with not enough wallet (and luck) who spend most of their time farming and improving in the game.
The winners are the noobs with real cash but also Zenimax who get all the cash.

Well done Zenimax this is a good way to destroy what is left of your game.

The losers are the ones who don't actually play the game.

Nothing can be bought with real money/crowns that isn't available through playing the game.

Shame so many players don't understand what P2W is after all these years of debating it.

kmcaj

Can someone explain to me what you win exactly and how someone paying to win it negatively affects my gaming experience? Been playing for a while and not sure how all these issues have ruined the game. Haven't found the game any different, even since players can buy skyshards. Game is still fun.

Taleof2Cities

Delparis wrote: »

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

No, that is pay to advance faster, and not pay to win. A lot of people that I run into in other games don't understand the difference and their definition is "spend money =pay 2 win" as that is all that they understand.

Please explain how you win anything by purchasing riding lessons?

You ride faster so you move faster from keep to keep to defend or attack it.
You can jump to a location before the player who started playing at the same time as you. So you can get more xp more loot and die less since you can run faster.
Meanwhile the other dude struggle with his dead horse.

I really wish ZOS would give me my forums LOL button back ...

THEDKEXPERIENCE

jadarock wrote: »

Coggage wrote: »

Pay to win what exactly?

Engagements with enemies.
Please stop trolling.

Just because some people can kill others while naked and others need all the help they can get and still struggle to be successful doesn't mean it's not p2w or pay for an advantageous position.
We all understand the player still has to go out and perform but Eso+ ,OP dlc gear ,skills or anything that speeds up leveling is in fact a form of p2w or pay for advantage. Idk how you can argue otherwise its nonsensical imo

The nonsensical part is arguing that anything is pay to win in a game with zero official win parameters.

What is winning at ESO?

Thorvik_Tyrson

Jhalin wrote: »

P2W exists in skyshard purchasing, so far that’s the one true P2W feature that really oversteps since there is no comparable in-game system.

I beg to differ, I think that the skyshard purchase is a great example of what Pay to Advance faster.

As a new player to ESO, I CAN'T buy these skyshards. Why? because I have not spent the time to get them on my first character. So after I spend the time in game to gather the skyshards on one character, I can then choose to advance faster on my other characters by spending crowns rather than my time.

As to no comparable in game system, Ummm... What is walking up to a skyshard and collecting it? Isn't that the in game system? The old fashioned manual way.


This is another example of why I say that people do not understand Pay to Advance faster versus Pay to Win.

jadarock

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

jadarock wrote: »

Coggage wrote: »

Pay to win what exactly?

Engagements with enemies.
Please stop trolling.

Just because some people can kill others while naked and others need all the help they can get and still struggle to be successful doesn't mean it's not p2w or pay for an advantageous position.
We all understand the player still has to go out and perform but Eso+ ,OP dlc gear ,skills or anything that speeds up leveling is in fact a form of p2w or pay for advantage. Idk how you can argue otherwise its nonsensical imo

The nonsensical part is arguing that anything is pay to win in a game with zero official win parameters.

What is winning at ESO?

So gaining every possible advantage so that you have the best chance to come out victorious
when encountering enemies is considered a nonsensical parameter?
I'm sorry I thought that's what this game was about.

Merlight

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

It’s more like a prerequisite for not losing. Which, in this case is not the same as winning. It just allows you to compete.

Can you give me an example of "a prerequisite for not losing" that is not "a prerequisite for winning"? Something that you must have to not lose, but need not have to win.

I literally did in my post with my Wimbledon example.

You literally didn't. In your Wimbledon example, "winning" is the same as "not losing", so any prerequisite for not losing is also a prerequisite for winning.

I was hoping you'd try to come up with a different example, one where "winning" is not the same thing as "not losing", and then find out by yourself that achieving a win without something required to not lose is only possible if you can both win and lose at the same time.

CambionDaemon

When ZoS put Daedric weapons/armour in the store that are more powerful than anything in game, and the only way that you can get them is by real Sterling/Dollar/Euro then people an say Pay2Win until then ESO is not Pay2Win, end of discussion.

As for skyshards, before you can buy them you have to collect them all on another toon, so it is Pay2Catchup really.

jircris11

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

No, that is pay to advance faster, and not pay to win. A lot of people that I run into in other games don't understand the difference and their definition is "spend money =pay 2 win" as that is all that they understand.

Please explain how you win anything by purchasing riding lessons?

You ride faster so you move faster from keep to keep to defend or attack it.
You can jump to a location before the player who started playing at the same time as you. So you can get more xp more loot and die less since you can run faster.
Meanwhile the other dude struggle with his dead horse.

I really wish ZOS would give me my forums LOL button back ...

Ikr

idk

LOL. OP does not know what P2W is. It is being able to buy something with real world money that makes you stronger than what you can get in game. People twist the meaning to suit their argument but those that actually know see right through the extremely weak argument presented in the OP.

Delparis wrote: »

Look now at ESO, you can buy banker, merchant, riding lessons, pots, ... All these are considered pay to win element.

* this isn't a game btw more of trash or dog ***

This shows how pale the OPs argument is. That somehow having a banker or merchant is P2W. That is just absurd.

I leave this little message to help this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWtfOHBF1_w

jircris11

idk wrote: »

LOL. OP does not know what P2W is. It is being able to buy something with real world money that makes you stronger than what you can get in game. People twist the meaning to suit their argument but those that actually know see right through the extremely weak argument presented in the OP.

I use league of angels as my p2w example. They sell full costumes you CANT GET INGAME and it boosts your stats to the point yo wonr see a free player past rank 100 in pvp.

Deathlord92

Eso isn’t pay to win imo.

jadarock

What gear do you get from cloudrest? Behind that pay wall? It is or was bis gear.
Does it guarantee a leaderboard score ? Nope but with a high skill cap a player can squeak out more performance.
That is the definition of pay to win in my book.

ZOS_RogerJ

Greetings! We've closed this thread due to its non-constructive nature and to prevent further spiraling.