ESO is a pay to win game and here's why

Blackwing_Soul

Wait, wait, guys! I think I have figured it out! Now follow me here. Everything listed in OP can be obtained without using Crowns, right? Right. So what is the one thing you "win" over someone who earns the gear without gold? Time. And Time = Money. So use Money to buy Crowns for gold to save Time which equals Money. It makes perfect sense!

Delparis

With enough gold player can also pay:

1. Plague doctor jewelry legendary
2. Plague doctor lightening staff infused legenday
3. Necropotance divine

Follow the guide* to cheese vMA.

* I suppose that he plays sorc and not a nerfed class (templar)

thermatico

People still don't understand whay pay2win means in 2019.

rpa

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

Knightpanther

jadarock wrote: »

In the very least it is advantageous to pay for the dlcs as the skills and or gear that come from from the new content is overloaded so that you buy it.....
How does that not equate to p2w ?

New equipment in most games gets more powerfull every expansion, its called progression.
That said i still use some equipment that's years old and many of the old gear still holds its own, so no its nowhere near pay to win if you buy DLCs, its pay to progress.

Be safe

Vlad9425

Sadly this is just the state of gaming nowadays not just ESO. While I don't think this is pay to win since all the stuff you listed can be obtained in game I do understand your frustrations since developers will do anything to make money nowadays so it's no surprise that it's possible for people to purchase crowns for others.

Merlight

tmbrinks wrote: »

Pay 2 Win means being able to get items that somebody who doesn't pay can't get.

That is not what pay-to-win means.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I mean currently I've come back to play the game but denying the game is pay to win now is kind of insane.

r3turn2s3nd3r

Delparis wrote: »

With enough gold player can also pay:

1. Plague doctor jewelry legendary
2. Plague doctor lightening staff infused legenday
3. Necropotance divine

Follow the guide* to cheese vMA.

* I suppose that he plays sorc and not a nerfed class (templar)

So simply owning 5 piece base game sets is PTW? Sets that have been able to be bought and sold well before crown selling was a thing... o.O

VaranisArano

rpa wrote: »

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

Or as I like to call it "pay2skip two months of being dead last in your PVP raid, getting ganked off your horse, dying on your new warden, and having to respawn and find your raid again, only to probably get ganked again..."

I bought 30 riding speed lessons once I finally brought my warden into Cyrodiil, and it was totally worth it to skip that miserable experience!

That being said, the horse speed is still available in game, for gold obtained in game, and so that's not Pay To Win. Just Pay2Skip, which isn't the same thing.

OrphanHelgen

If you can't play, no gear will save you.
Also yes you get it faster by buying instead of farming it yourself, but in the endgame, it's not about pay to win. Pay to win in your case, it's just getting there faster.

myskyrim26

My firend and I played an MMO with a pay to win features. We bought best sets, weapons and combat pets. We were supposed to "win", right? Yet noobs we were, just as bad as before. Gear gave us NOTHING.

Delparis

BDO is a pay to win because player can buy a pet that loot things for him via the cash shop.

Most recently in Fallout 76 because of repair kits in the cash shop the "game"* is now pay to win.

Look now at ESO, you can buy banker, merchant, riding lessons, pots, ... All these are considered pay to win element.

* this isn't a game btw more of trash or dog ***

mikemacon

::sees "insightful", "agree", and "awesome" response options, looks desperately for "eye roll" response::

Chadak

I wonder if buying Zenimax and givine one's self a Dev account, then PK'ing all the people one doesn't like with an unkillable GM-level character would count as paying to win.

Because it's hypothetically possible.

stpdmonkey

With new players coming into a game 5 years old I can understand dev's giving them a chance to hopefully catch up to other players. That is not pay to win. Skill is just as important. I created my first dps after 3 years of only tanking. I got all the best in slot gear for my build and still was doing horrible. It took time and practice to get better. Better mount speed just helps your get somewhere faster.
OP is definitely just trying to troll us.

Delparis

Chadak wrote: »

I wonder if buying Zenimax and givine one's self a Dev account, then PK'ing all the people one doesn't like with an unkillable GM-level character would count as paying to win.

Because it's hypothetically possible.

@ZOS_Gilliam

Kiralyn2000

The ability to trade in-game gold for cash shop items is the best way MMOs have to prevent "pay 2 win".

Pay To Win is when there are items only available for cash, that give you a power advantage over people who don't pay cash.

Since Crown Gifting and Crowns For Gold let someone who doesn't pay cash, get things from the cash shop, it removes the possibility of Pay 2 Win.



And that's even assuming there was anything "p2w" in the Crown Store in the first place, which there isn't.

VaranisArano

Delparis wrote: »

BDO is a pay to win because player can buy a pet that loot things for him via the cash shop.

Most recently in Fallout 76 because of repair kits in the cash shop the "game"* is now pay to win.

Look now at ESO, you can buy banker, merchant, riding lessons, pots, ... All these are considered pay to win element.

* this isn't a game btw more of trash or dog ***

Those are terrible examples. Every one of those is available in game for people who play the game for some time and effort.

Banker...walk into any major town and there's a Banker, who also gives access to your guild traders and guild bank, which the Crown Banker doesn't do.
Merchant...walk into any town at all and find a vendor to sell your junk to, and get your gear repaired while you are at it.
Riding lessons...go up to any stable master, pay 200 or so gold, and pick your riding lesson. This is a time sink, but ceratinly available in game.
Potions...level up alchemy, pick flowers, make your own potions. Not hard, just time consuming.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I’m not exactly sure what “winning” at ESO actually is. Yes, you can shadily turn crowns into gold and buy end game gear. You still have to grind out 810 champion levels, and you still aren’t guaranteed anything.

Ever play South Park Phone Destoyer on mobile? I’ve been playing it for almost 2 years every day and sunk $0 into it. I can defeat a majority of the player base because of skill and because I’ve grinded like a champ. Yet, someone in that game can take out their wallet and drop $1000 on cards that would absolutely wreck the ones that I’ve built up over about a year and a half.

For example my best card is a level 6 Big Gay Al. Level 7 is the top level and I have a few not as good Level 7 common cards but that’s irrelevant. Level 6 BGA is a great card. Anyway, my toon is a level 21 which is also absurdly high.

It is not uncommon in that game to get matched with a level 12 player who steamrolls me with a hoard of legendary cards and level 7s that are literally impossible for a level 12 to acquire without shelling out hundreds or even thousands of dollars. That is pay to win.

The ESO equivalent to that would I be buying a sword in the crown store that could one shot CP810 players as a level 26 that doesn’t have any CP.

Side note - yes the expansions provide some advantage, like jewelry crafting. Still anything (aside from monster sets) that is available in those expansions is available to people without them in the guild stores. And even those sets are surely going to pop up eventually in The Golden vendor.

LukosCreyden

P2W, huh? I checked the Crown Store all over and couldn't find ANY weapons or equipment that gave me an edge over other players.

I mean, I have about 10 million gold. By your logic, I win now? Do I throw my gold at people? I mean, a noob in Trials gear is still at a disadvantage, no matter how much gold they paid for the carry.

Banker and Merchant: convenience items. Neither my banker or my merchant give me an edge in combat.

Riding Lessons: convenience, but yeah, edging in that direction, I'll give you that. Pretty much only applies to Cyrodiil though.

Pots: Crown Store pots are trash, we all know this.

Itzmichi

Bad players will be bad players, sets won't make a difference.

Browiseth

bit of a stretch...

honestly i think that "buying" crowns with gold is a good thing. it gives players more control over the ingame economy, akin to games like warframe or TF2.

Blackwing_Soul

Delparis wrote: »

BDO is a pay to win because player can buy a pet that loot things for him via the cash shop.

Most recently in Fallout 76 because of repair kits in the cash shop the "game"* is now pay to win.

Look now at ESO, you can buy banker, merchant, riding lessons, pots, ... All these are considered pay to win element.

* this isn't a game btw more of trash or dog ***

My wife and I have been having a.. blast.. in the FO76 free trial! Get it? Blast? Fallout? Bomb puns? Anyway. Game is much more fun than I expected.

Kiralyn2000

Delparis wrote: »

Look now at ESO, you can buy banker, merchant, riding lessons, pots, ... All these are considered pay to win element.

No, they aren't.

The first three just save you a bit of time, so they're only "pay to convenience". And the third - well crafted pots made with in-game mats, are better than the crown store ones.

"P2W" potions are the ones that I ran into a long time ago in some f2p open-world/ffa pvp game (Perfect World?). Those cash shop potions were ones that triggered automatically whenever your HP/MP got low. So you stocked up on a huge pile of them, and then you could just go to town on other players in PvP, secure that you wouldn't die until your pool of 100k-1m HP were exhausted. (and then loot their gear off their corpses, unless they'd paid cash for "insurance" consumables to prevent losing their stuff)

Llaren_Uvayn

People cry "pay to win" way too much these days. You don't even need ESO+ to get most of the good gear in this game.

And gold gear isn't overrated, it's not an insurmountable difference compared to purple.

Llaren_Uvayn

IS overrated. Autocorrect got me there I think.

twev

mobicera wrote: »

3 can't be purchased.
Who uses skoria anymore?
Gear doesn't make a player.
This is a joke...

Good gear wont turn a mediocre player into Conan, but good gear will allow a mediocre player to punch above his/her weight class, letting him/her gain better rewards than he/she otherwise would.

*I'm not assigning genders here. Someone else can open that SJW can of worms.

Merlight

VaranisArano wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

Or as I like to call it "pay2skip two months of being dead last in your PVP raid, getting ganked off your horse, dying on your new warden, and having to respawn and find your raid again, only to probably get ganked again..."

I bought 30 riding speed lessons once I finally brought my warden into Cyrodiil, and it was totally worth it to skip that miserable experience!

Monetizing frustration 101. Good job voting with your wallet!

May I also suggest rewording that to "pay2skip two months of dwelling in the stables, not playing the character"? The way you put it, sounds like riding lessons are a prerequisite to winning in PvP for you...

D0PAMINE

Hahaha

karthrag_inak

Kel wrote: »

I mean, Blizzard outright sells gold in thier cash shop via the WoW Token, and no one calls that game pay to win.

cuz WoW has no win.