ESO is a pay to win game and here's why

jadarock

Knightpanther wrote: »

jadarock wrote: »

In the very least it is advantageous to pay for the dlcs as the skills and or gear that come from from the new content is overloaded so that you buy it.....
How does that not equate to p2w ?

New equipment in most games gets more powerfull every expansion, its called progression.
That said i still use some equipment that's years old and many of the old gear still holds its own, so no its nowhere near pay to win if you buy DLCs, its pay to progress.

Be safe

Idk
I mean the moment I had access to jewelry crafting it opened doors for builds impossible otherwise yes?
Then I go into cyrodiil and kill people with those new updated gear set ups and skills my opponent
may or may not have access to. So yes I payed for an advantage not "progression" vs other players.
That is the definition of pay2win or at the very least a better chance to win.

JamilaRaj

Blackwing_Soul wrote: »

Can the items listed be obtained in game without the use of Crowns? Yes? Not pay to win. Sorry.

Yeah? By "any noob"? Hardly. Fresh noob would totally have to resort to RMTs (of which cash to gold via crowns is the preferred route, by ZOS, because cash will end in ZOS's pocket) to be able to obtain gear worth of 1.5M gold right off the bat.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Merlight wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

Or as I like to call it "pay2skip two months of being dead last in your PVP raid, getting ganked off your horse, dying on your new warden, and having to respawn and find your raid again, only to probably get ganked again..."

I bought 30 riding speed lessons once I finally brought my warden into Cyrodiil, and it was totally worth it to skip that miserable experience!

Monetizing frustration 101. Good job voting with your wallet!

May I also suggest rewording that to "pay2skip two months of dwelling in the stables, not playing the character"? The way you put it, sounds like riding lessons are a prerequisite to winning in PvP for you...

It’s more like a prerequisite for not losing. Which, in this case is not the same as winning. It just allows you to compete.

I mean if people were allowed to buy their way into Wimbledon for 5 million bucks, and lose 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 would you call that winning?

RebornV3x

This thread is dumb can we get a lock on it that would be great.

J2JMC

Hold up. I don't agree with OP's assessment, but when the hell did pay2win become "as long as it can be earned in the game, it doesn't matter if it's in the crown store"?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert Ya'll seeing this? Hit up your bosses and tell them to start putting trial and arena gear into the crown store. Apparently the player base is cool with it since they can be earned in game. Ya'll will be rolling in cash.

Thorvik_Tyrson

rpa wrote: »

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

No, that is pay to advance faster, and not pay to win. A lot of people that I run into in other games don't understand the difference and their definition is "spend money =pay 2 win" as that is all that they understand.

Please explain how you win anything by purchasing riding lessons?

Apox

mobicera wrote: »

Who uses skoria anymore?

someone doesnt pvp

Blinkin8r

The person who spends the money is not the winner as they are probably trash at the game. The real winner is Zos because they get all the money. I remember when crown selling became a thing, a new kid in one of my guilds barely 160 cp walked up to me with worm wizard personality (back before the nerfs). When I asked how he got it he proudly said he paid for a carry and sold crowns to get the gold. He wasn't in my guild long.
He went on to buy every other skin/personality/carry in the game. Spend hundreds of dollars, then quit. It's a trash way to play, removes any sense of accomplishment from the achievements, but hey, at least Zos gets their money?

Jhalin

P2W exists in skyshard purchasing, so far that’s the one true P2W feature that really oversteps since there is no comparable in-game system.

But you can buy that gear or those runs you mentioned with gold earned through gameplay just the same as “crown gold”, in the exact same way, for the exact same benefit to both.

1.5mil doesn’t actually cover a vMoL carry for a lot of guilds anyway

Merlight

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

It’s more like a prerequisite for not losing. Which, in this case is not the same as winning. It just allows you to compete.

Can you give me an example of "a prerequisite for not losing" that is not "a prerequisite for winning"? Something that you must have to not lose, but need not have to win.

rotaugen454

I’ll pay to make threads like this go away.

Delparis

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

In ESO one can pay2skip half year of horse riding logins. That is P2W.

No, that is pay to advance faster, and not pay to win. A lot of people that I run into in other games don't understand the difference and their definition is "spend money =pay 2 win" as that is all that they understand.

Please explain how you win anything by purchasing riding lessons?

You ride faster so you move faster from keep to keep to defend or attack it.
You can jump to a location before the player who started playing at the same time as you. So you can get more xp more loot and die less since you can run faster.
Meanwhile the other dude struggle with his dead horse.

VaranisArano

Merlight wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

It’s more like a prerequisite for not losing. Which, in this case is not the same as winning. It just allows you to compete.

Can you give me an example of "a prerequisite for not losing" that is not "a prerequisite for winning"? Something that you must have to not lose, but need not have to win.

Sure.

My riding lessons.

I didnt need rising lessons to play in Cyrodiil. I've played in Cyrodiil on low speed. Mounts, on new toons, and I do okay. Not amazing, and sure, I miss some AP ticks because I'm slow. So what? Last I checked, the game never guaranteed I'd get to every keep capture...

But when I decided I wanted to play my Warden with my organized PVP raid, then I wanted to be able to keep up with everyone. So I bought enough riding lessons to finish off my mount speed. I couldd have play without them, just not how I wanted, right away.

And that's why they arent pay to win. Its "pay to play the way I want, right now" vs "pay in game gold to play the way I want, 2 months later".

Its pay for convenience.
That's not the same as pay to win.

jadarock

RebornV3x wrote: »

This thread is dumb can we get a lock on it that would be great.

That's an ignorant take to be sure.
We are having a legit and civil discussion. If that's all you have to add to the topic please see yourself out of the thread huh....

Merlight

Delparis wrote: »

You ride faster so you move faster from keep to keep to defend or attack it.

You're also more likely to charge into a loading screen than someone on a slow horse

JamilaRaj

J2JMC wrote: »

Hold up. I don't agree with OP's assessment, but when the hell did pay2win become "as long as it can be earned in the game, it doesn't matter if it's in the crown store"?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert Ya'll seeing this? Hit up your bosses and tell them to start putting trial and arena gear into the crown store. Apparently the player base is cool with it since they can be earned in game. Ya'll will be rolling in cash.

But they are already rolling in cash, that is the whole point of running cash to gold conversion schemes; players get gear, ZOS gets money and since there is no gear in the cash shop, everyone can pretend the game is all hunky dory.

Hallothiel

Ffs. This game is not pay-to-win.

Druid40

So?

Kagukan

This doesn't meet the criteria for pay to win on any level.

Blackwing_Soul

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Blackwing_Soul wrote: »

Can the items listed be obtained in game without the use of Crowns? Yes? Not pay to win. Sorry.

Yeah? By "any noob"? Hardly. Fresh noob would totally have to resort to RMTs (of which cash to gold via crowns is the preferred route, by ZOS, because cash will end in ZOS's pocket) to be able to obtain gear worth of 1.5M gold right off the bat.

I... am not sure what your point is. Are you saying that a noob in bought gear is p2w? What exactly has he won over someone else who farmed the gear ingame? Or are you saying that a noob has to buy gear via Crown to gold? He could just spend the time and earn the gear. It doesn't make it p2w, just pay to save time. What if some vet player buys gear for the noob? Is it only p2w if the vet used Crown gold?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Merlight wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

It’s more like a prerequisite for not losing. Which, in this case is not the same as winning. It just allows you to compete.

Can you give me an example of "a prerequisite for not losing" that is not "a prerequisite for winning"? Something that you must have to not lose, but need not have to win.

I literally did in my post with my Wimbledon example.

What the riding thing does is give you a CHANCE to COMPETE to win (which I still think is essentially irrelevant in ESO except in the case of Emperor) but it doesn’t guarantee you anything more than a chance. You’re not becoming Emperor on a 0 speed mount, let’s be real.

Still, there are thousands of people with 60-60-60 mounts who have never been emperor.

So like I said earlier, if Wimbledon let you pay 5 million dollars to skip qualifying for it, yeah, you’d be skipping the line over people who have grinded out the chance to be the Wimbledon champion, but you haven’t actually won anything except a chance to compete.

And chances are almost 100% you’d get smoked in straight sets, likely without winning a point unless someone double faults. Doesn’t seem very pay to win to me.

Pay for speed, sure. Pay for convenience, sure. Pay for a slight chance at the bare minimum of competence, sure. Pay to win? No.

Edit - obtaining something that is essential to be a winner does not make you one. You still need to earn a victory, which, again, what is victory in ESO. Is winning beating one guy in PVP? Is it winning a trial? Is it being the second coolest Khajiit behind @SantieClaws? There are undefinable win parameters in ESO.

Hyperion616

Delparis wrote: »

The moment players were able to sell crowns for gold the game become pay to win.

Thanks to crowns, any noob with enough cash can buy let's say 5k crown for 35€ then sell them on the market for 1.5 million gold.

With that gold he can buy:

1. Spell strategist jewelry and inferno infused staff all legendary.
2. Mother's sorrow light gear divine legendary.
3. a Skoria shoulder divine (luck)
4. carry in vCoA 2 for skoria helm divine.

He can also pay for another 5k crown to get carried in vet trial for skins (vMoL, vHoF) and the gear their.

The loosers are the players with not enough wallet (and luck) who spend most of their time farming and improving in the game.
The winners are the noobs with real cash but also Zenimax who get all the cash.

Well done Zenimax this is a good way to destroy what is left of your game.

In my own opinion I do not view this method as pay to win but rather someone with spare change spending it on quick gains. Pay to win to me means the crown store sailing items only obtainable through the store that invalidates all other weapons in game, or armor.

I know to some this method of using crowns to procure in game gold to then buy items is a form of pay to win and that's fine, I'm not here to tell someone else there opinion is wrong but rather to share my own opinion on how I view things.

stpdmonkey

Creating an ability for new players to somewhat catch up on some aspects as the people who have been playing for years gives them incentive to actually start and play. I played wow and when my account got hacked and blizzard wouldny help me I lost everything. I never restarted because I didnt want to do the 6 month grind to get back to where I was. If I had an option to help I would have gotten back into it.
There is no pay to gain levels.
Mount speed does not help you kill anyone getting to a keep sure but that doesn't help if you just die.
Gear makes it so you have potential. Not ability.
Most good gear must be earned not bought.
This all makes it so you are not able to pay to win. Most players I've come across who pay for a carry or anything similar ends up being a incapable player anyways. Most crown items are not combat related they are cosmetic. Banker and merchant will save you alittle time but that's still it. Time. So as someone said time=money. So if you want to spend your money for stuff you will reduce alittle time. But in the end it will not help you WIN! dlc and expansions are game progress. I know some who have nothing except base original game and they can dominate still. So once again. Money doesnt help win in eso.

Nogawd

Just shows how ranting and complaining indeed is an addiction.

They just have to complain about anything and everything.

rotaugen454

Nogawd wrote: »

Just shows how ranting and complaining indeed is an addiction.

They just have to complain about anything and everything.

Your post makes me very upset! Something needs to be done about this!

stpdmonkey

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Nogawd wrote: »

Just shows how ranting and complaining indeed is an addiction.

They just have to complain about anything and everything.

Your post makes me very upset! Something needs to be done about this!

This makes me upset. How dare you be upset. (Pounding on the ground throwing a fit).

Coggage

Pay to win what exactly?

Kalgert

Just to remind people that this is the same... Person(?) who decided it'd be a cool and smart idea to go and throw games in Battlegrounds.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/479884/to-every-eu-pc-bg-player/p1

Your opinions carry no value.

CambionDaemon

I wish people would actually find out what pay2win actually means, before creating threads like this. NOTHING in this game is pay2win

Gilvoth

Delparis wrote: »

The moment players were able to sell crowns for gold the game become pay to win.

Thanks to crowns, any noob with enough cash can buy let's say 5k crown for 35€ then sell them on the market for 1.5 million gold.

With that gold he can buy:

1. Spell strategist jewelry and inferno infused staff all legendary.
2. Mother's sorrow light gear divine legendary.
3. a Skoria shoulder divine (luck)
4. carry in vCoA 2 for skoria helm divine.

are you suggesting that if he owns those things, that makes him winner in both pvp and pve?
because that would be false.

owning those things does not let you win anything in eso.