So? How's DK wings in Live server?

Rikumaru

likecats wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

What? I would take shimmering over old wings on my DKs any day, it gives MAJOR HEROISM, absorbs the projectiles and grants some magicka back making it basically a free cast. But hey lets nerf wings, an inferior skill because I can't engage my brain and understand that my projectiles will be reflected back at me if I hit wings! Yay for interesting and diverse class design!

Good for you. I already explained why magblade, even if slotting all the possible counters against wings, is still heavily countered by one button. If you want to readdress my arguments I made to you a few days ago you're welcome. But your ignorance leads me to believe that you have none coming.

What points? You complain about how magblade is completely shutdown. Okay? Maybe it's because magblade is a garbage class which needs some serious changes, so as a result you want magicka dk's class defining ability to be completely changed as a result and not to change magblade? What a joker. As others have pointed out shimmering is literally a better version of wings which is completely stupid considering wings has been a staple DK ability since day 1. Not only that but it's also the most healthy of the class defining abilities such as cloak or streak, but nope ZOS had to go and ruin wings.

Also care to explain why you think pre elsweyr wings is stronger than shimmering? Only way I can see it being stronger is against malfunctioning players who keep hammering on wings killing themselves.

likecats

Rikumaru wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

What? I would take shimmering over old wings on my DKs any day, it gives MAJOR HEROISM, absorbs the projectiles and grants some magicka back making it basically a free cast. But hey lets nerf wings, an inferior skill because I can't engage my brain and understand that my projectiles will be reflected back at me if I hit wings! Yay for interesting and diverse class design!

Good for you. I already explained why magblade, even if slotting all the possible counters against wings, is still heavily countered by one button. If you want to readdress my arguments I made to you a few days ago you're welcome. But your ignorance leads me to believe that you have none coming.

What points? You complain about how magblade is completely shutdown. Okay? Maybe it's because magblade is a garbage class which needs some serious changes, so as a result you want magicka dk's class defining ability to be completely changed as a result and not to change magblade? What a joker. As others have pointed out shimmering is literally a better version of wings which is completely stupid considering wings has been a staple DK ability since day 1. Not only that but it's also the most healthy of the class defining abilities such as cloak or streak, but nope ZOS had to go and ruin wings.

Also care to explain why you think pre elsweyr wings is stronger than shimmering? Only way I can see it being stronger is against malfunctioning players who keep hammering on wings killing themselves.

Strawman after strawman,

I have always defaulted for magblade to get some non-reflectable abilities, rather then wings being changed. For instance I argued that swallow soul should no longer be a reflectable ability given force pulse isn't back in October. Number 1 opposers to the idea? DKs saying wings reflect very few abilities. If you see the thread, it was infact some of the DKs who wanted wings to be changed rather than more abilities being unreflected.

If you're going to pretend that magblades have not been trying to get some non-reflectable abilities on this forum for the past 4 years, then you're once again displaying your ignorance. Get educated before building strawman arguments.

"Why is pre-elsweyr wings stronger?"
I already explained that in a previous thread.
For all intents and purposes, you can shimmering shield lasts less than 1.5 seconds for a single person to break it.
On the other hand, if you "stop hammering on wings killing themselves", wings lasts 6 seconds. Even if you hammer with 4 light attacks, it lasts at least 3 seconds, and you take substantial damage. You cannot keep spamming shimmering shield and stay on the offensive, because it comes down too fast. On the other hand 6 seconds of wings is plenty of time to attack your opponents while mitigating 100% damage by deterrence of reflects.

Valencer

Oh, a good magblade can't kill a mediocre DK that keeps wings up?

If only mediocre nightblades had a skill or something that would allow them to become very hard to kill as well. Maybe make them untargetable for the duration? Hmmm

Davadin

holy ***, thanks for the feedback (and complaints!).

finally landed in Cyro last night. spent about 3 hr in Kalgrontiid.... however u spell it. joined raid. played solo. big zerg. a couple duels. some 1v2~4. many keeps. some Volendrung stuff. 95k AP, very casually.

stamDK. 2H/2H medium build with Nox, Carve, Dizzying, Wings... I wanna try it all. 😆😂

Thoughts:
1. Lag. Lag never changes.
2. Dizzying. ur playin it wrong, folks. this aint pve. stop weaving like ur fighting a dummy. SPAM IT. due to lag, weaving LA makes u hit less. I'm getting near consistent 1/1s rate.
3. Nox is noice. its cheap and wide. good for fighting zerg and lay down those dots. tooltip 7.5k with ~12k dot. spam it.
4. Carve. i got Master Axe so it hits harder when there a lot of people. tooltip around 7.8k with 15k dot. don't spam it unless ur part of the Zerg, hitting another zerg. honestly good contender to DW's (new) spin-to-win. so.... cleave-to-win?
5. wings. ok. i got Forward Momentum and others can have RAT. sure it hurts now but it's FAR from being useless. if u rely on it before, u need to adapt. if u use it as just another quick buff before u charge in, use the reflection morph. it's nicer. 50% less damage is still better than eating a snipe at full power. yes it's a nerf, but we can deal with it.
6. RAT. well this is a bit situational. it's nice and uses magicka so it's an alternative to Forward Momentum, and the minor slayer is good bonus. but honestly, for more damage dealing I'd pick the reflecting wings or caltrops. speaking of which...
7. caltrops is nice. it has a bigger hit initially, so if u can afford spamming it (ie. defending keep), u can feel people got hurt. mix some oil and have others spamming it too, and caltrops is seriously dangerous now. HOWEVER, could be just lag... but it feels like it's hitting less people? i feel it's effecting everyone in a small group, but when throwing at zergs, i USED to see a bunch more numbers popping the screen? i dunno. need more testing.
8. claw. tried it a little bit. if ur a DoT build, yes it's still as good as ever. cheap and adds a bit of Pressure in the long run. but nothing new.
9. Fossilize still as powerful yet as buggy as ever thanks to Cyro lag. dangerous tool in BG, but hit n miss/situational/duel in Cyrodiil.


that's all. had lotsa fun last night. will come back. but I'll finish Elswyr first.......

likecats

Valencer wrote: »

Oh, a good magblade can't kill a mediocre DK that keeps wings up?

If only mediocre nightblades had a skill or something that would allow them to become very hard to kill as well. Maybe make them untargetable for the duration? Hmmm

Make AOEs not break cloak, just allow the damage go through them.
Remove detect pots, mage light, flares.
Double duration to 6 seconds.
Allow the casting of any ability, including attacks and not have cloak broken.
Make cloak visible (not that it matters since your opponent can't attack you anyways).
The only counter to break cloak is to take substantial damage that takes at least 3 seconds.

Sounds broken no? Anyways, I guess its useless trying to explain further. Even if magblade slotted all possible counters, wings still reflect half of magblades toolkit which is broken. On the other hand, if you slot 1 counter to cloak, you can reliably kill any cloaking opponent. I guess if they gave me a detect pot equivalent that allowed all attacks to go through wings in <10m range, it wouldn't be so broken OP.

Cloak and Old wings are OP in different areas. Trying to conflate the two show a lack of understanding of the two abilities.
Cloak is way too strong in 1vX situations since you can mitigate avoid infinite damage from many opponents. In 1v1 its not worth slotting for any decent magblade. You are better off casting a shield which allows you to attack without losing your shields, and lasts 6 seconds.
Old wings were OP in 1v1 situations, but were destroyed too fast in 1vX situations.

If you think cloak is OP, then you should be happy for the new wings. They scale much much better in 1vX than the old wings.

Denmaras

Hi,
not on this forum much, but I am maining magDK since beta and I am really unsatisfied with the changes to wings.
Mostly I want to mention something that nobody else seems to have noticed, but thanks to Cevni who's been doing the tests, it seems that the DR from wings isn't affected by dots of some skills/ults and possibly even armor sets.
More precisely what he found out is:

Poison Injection does half direct dmg and half DoT
Cripple does half direct dmg and full DoT
Reflective Light does half direct dmg and full DoT
Elemental Reach does half direct dmg and full DoT
Fetcher Infection is completely unaffected (previously reflectable)
Crushing shock does half dmg
Warden Bird does half dmg
Most normal projetiles do half dmg
Skoria does half dmg
Meteor does full dmg

I am not sure, if it's supposed to not be affected by this change at all or if it's simply bugged, but I hope for the latter.
Basically you have to facetank everything, your stamina drains super quickly, you're getting every single negative effect on you and have no way to avoid it like other magclasses do and poop out a ball that people just take in as if it meant nothing.

You kinda want to run heavy now which I have been running before, but now it barely matters, also due to the fact that you want to make use of the new molten otherwise you lack a lot of damage. Which means that you won't get the heal from the other lash, and well dragonblood is just a burst heal, you can barely get offensive.
There is no serious counter to range builds now on magDK which sucks tremendously.
I think some people have already suggested making Dragonblood into a HoT instead.

For now I'd appreciate if someone could look into the issue with DoT's dealing full dmg on some skills/ults.
I already sent a ticket, but hoping to reach more people on here that actually care about the class.

Sanguinor2

Denmaras wrote: »

Hi,
not on this forum much, but I am maining magDK since beta and I am really unsatisfied with the changes to wings.
Mostly I want to mention something that nobody else seems to have noticed, but thanks to Cevni who's been doing the tests, it seems that the DR from wings isn't affected by dots of some skills/ults and possibly even armor sets.
More precisely what he found out is:

Poison Injection does half direct dmg and half DoT
Cripple does half direct dmg and full DoT
Reflective Light does half direct dmg and full DoT
Elemental Reach does half direct dmg and full DoT
Fetcher Infection is completely unaffected (previously reflectable)
Crushing shock does half dmg
Warden Bird does half dmg
Most normal projetiles do half dmg
Skoria does half dmg
Meteor does full dmg

I am not sure, if it's supposed to not be affected by this change at all or if it's simply bugged, but I hope for the latter.
Basically you have to facetank everything, your stamina drains super quickly, you're getting every single negative effect on you and have no way to avoid it like other magclasses do and poop out a ball that people just take in as if it meant nothing.

You kinda want to run heavy now which I have been running before, but now it barely matters, also due to the fact that you want to make use of the new molten otherwise you lack a lot of damage. Which means that you won't get the heal from the other lash, and well dragonblood is just a burst heal, you can barely get offensive.
There is no serious counter to range builds now on magDK which sucks tremendously.
I think some people have already suggested making Dragonblood into a HoT instead.

For now I'd appreciate if someone could look into the issue with DoT's dealing full dmg on some skills/ults.
I already sent a ticket, but hoping to reach more people on here that actually care about the class.

From what I understood dots doing full Damage through wings is intended only the direct Damage hit of them (if they have one) should be reduced, Im obviously no dev tho so I cant be 100% certain.

Davadin

wait. Meteor does full damage? @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

Aedaryl

Denmaras wrote: »

Hi,
not on this forum much, but I am maining magDK since beta and I am really unsatisfied with the changes to wings.
Mostly I want to mention something that nobody else seems to have noticed, but thanks to Cevni who's been doing the tests, it seems that the DR from wings isn't affected by dots of some skills/ults and possibly even armor sets.
More precisely what he found out is:

Poison Injection does half direct dmg and half DoT
Cripple does half direct dmg and full DoT
Reflective Light does half direct dmg and full DoT
Elemental Reach does half direct dmg and full DoT
Fetcher Infection is completely unaffected (previously reflectable)
Crushing shock does half dmg
Warden Bird does half dmg
Most normal projetiles do half dmg
Skoria does half dmg
Meteor does full dmg

I am not sure, if it's supposed to not be affected by this change at all or if it's simply bugged, but I hope for the latter.
Basically you have to facetank everything, your stamina drains super quickly, you're getting every single negative effect on you and have no way to avoid it like other magclasses do and poop out a ball that people just take in as if it meant nothing.

You kinda want to run heavy now which I have been running before, but now it barely matters, also due to the fact that you want to make use of the new molten otherwise you lack a lot of damage. Which means that you won't get the heal from the other lash, and well dragonblood is just a burst heal, you can barely get offensive.
There is no serious counter to range builds now on magDK which sucks tremendously.
I think some people have already suggested making Dragonblood into a HoT instead.

For now I'd appreciate if someone could look into the issue with DoT's dealing full dmg on some skills/ults.
I already sent a ticket, but hoping to reach more people on here that actually care about the class.

Can you please l2p ?

Seriously, no class have 50% damage mitigation on direct attacks from projectiles.

This is extremely strong, it's exactly like a permablock with a non tank weapon vs ranged attacks.

u HaVe tO fAcEtAnk eVeRYtHiNg aNd iT'S dRaIn uR sTaMiNA

Can you strop trying to permablock like a biiiip on a magicka light armor build vs ranged builds ?

You have the best counter agaisnt projectiles, and now the projectiles that bypassed wings are affected by it.

You also have A SUPER STRONG GAP CLOSER and access to major expedition + snare removal.

mAg dK sInCe bEtA

Sanguinor2

Aedaryl wrote: »

Can you please l2p ?

Seriously, no class have 50% damage mitigation on direct attacks from projectiles.

This is extremely strong, it's exactly like a permablock with a non tank weapon vs ranged attacks.

u HaVe tO fAcEtAnk eVeRYtHiNg aNd iT'S dRaIn uR sTaMiNA

Can you strop trying to permablock like a biiiip on a magicka light armor build vs ranged builds ?

You have the best counter agaisnt projectiles, and now the projectiles that bypassed wings are affected by it.

You also have A SUPER STRONG GAP CLOSER and access to major expedition + snare removal.

mAg dK sInCe bEtA

Fair, the classes that have Damage Mitigation against direct attacks from projectiles still have 100% except for dk (cloak, shimmering, ball of Lightning, yes I know ball of Lightning is much more situational than wings but still I just had to say it^^)

Aedaryl

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Can you please l2p ?

Seriously, no class have 50% damage mitigation on direct attacks from projectiles.

This is extremely strong, it's exactly like a permablock with a non tank weapon vs ranged attacks.

u HaVe tO fAcEtAnk eVeRYtHiNg aNd iT'S dRaIn uR sTaMiNA

Can you strop trying to permablock like a biiiip on a magicka light armor build vs ranged builds ?

You have the best counter agaisnt projectiles, and now the projectiles that bypassed wings are affected by it.

You also have A SUPER STRONG GAP CLOSER and access to major expedition + snare removal.

mAg dK sInCe bEtA

Fair, the classes that have Damage Mitigation against direct attacks from projectiles still have 100% except for dk (cloak, shimmering, ball of Lightning, yes I know ball of Lightning is much more situational than wings but still I just had to say it^^)

So biased.

Wings is the best because it allow you to be offensive while complety cut half the damage of all projectiles for 6s.

If you go offensive with cloak, you aren't mitigate projectile since you are decloaked.

If you go offensive with shimmering it last a large minimum 1.5s before having nothing left.

Ball of lightning only absorb spell projectile not physical one and it have a 50% cost increase punishement. You cannot also use it as a direct counter to a spell fired since the spell projectile that was fired at you when you are casting it still hitting you and not the ball.

Wings allow you to go on full offense while still mitigating the damage like a non S&B permablock.

Sanguinor2

Aedaryl wrote: »

So biased.

Wings is the best because it allow you to be offensive while complety cut half the damage of all projectiles for 6s.

If you go offensive with cloak, you aren't mitigate projectile since you are decloaked.

If you go offensive with shimmering it last a large minimum 1.5s before having nothing left.

Ball of lightning only absorb spell projectile not physical one and it have a 50% cost increase punishement. You cannot also use it as a direct counter to a spell fired since the spell projectile that was fired at you when you are casting it still hitting you and not the ball.

Wings allow you to go on full offense while still mitigating the damage like a non S&B permablock.

Joke went over your head mate, you are also hella biased just saying (well Pretty much everyone is in some way but thats besides the Point), by your logic old wings were more balanced than new wings because they last for less just like shimmering, that really what you want to say?

Neoauspex

Icky wrote: »

Old wings was a crutch. Adapt.

Ranged combat with no counters is a crutch

Rikumaru

likecats wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

What? I would take shimmering over old wings on my DKs any day, it gives MAJOR HEROISM, absorbs the projectiles and grants some magicka back making it basically a free cast. But hey lets nerf wings, an inferior skill because I can't engage my brain and understand that my projectiles will be reflected back at me if I hit wings! Yay for interesting and diverse class design!

Good for you. I already explained why magblade, even if slotting all the possible counters against wings, is still heavily countered by one button. If you want to readdress my arguments I made to you a few days ago you're welcome. But your ignorance leads me to believe that you have none coming.

What points? You complain about how magblade is completely shutdown. Okay? Maybe it's because magblade is a garbage class which needs some serious changes, so as a result you want magicka dk's class defining ability to be completely changed as a result and not to change magblade? What a joker. As others have pointed out shimmering is literally a better version of wings which is completely stupid considering wings has been a staple DK ability since day 1. Not only that but it's also the most healthy of the class defining abilities such as cloak or streak, but nope ZOS had to go and ruin wings.

Also care to explain why you think pre elsweyr wings is stronger than shimmering? Only way I can see it being stronger is against malfunctioning players who keep hammering on wings killing themselves.

Strawman after strawman,

I have always defaulted for magblade to get some non-reflectable abilities, rather then wings being changed. For instance I argued that swallow soul should no longer be a reflectable ability given force pulse isn't back in October. Number 1 opposers to the idea? DKs saying wings reflect very few abilities. If you see the thread, it was infact some of the DKs who wanted wings to be changed rather than more abilities being unreflected.

If you're going to pretend that magblades have not been trying to get some non-reflectable abilities on this forum for the past 4 years, then you're once again displaying your ignorance. Get educated before building strawman arguments.

"Why is pre-elsweyr wings stronger?"
I already explained that in a previous thread.
For all intents and purposes, you can shimmering shield lasts less than 1.5 seconds for a single person to break it.
On the other hand, if you "stop hammering on wings killing themselves", wings lasts 6 seconds. Even if you hammer with 4 light attacks, it lasts at least 3 seconds, and you take substantial damage. You cannot keep spamming shimmering shield and stay on the offensive, because it comes down too fast. On the other hand 6 seconds of wings is plenty of time to attack your opponents while mitigating 100% damage by deterrence of reflects.

Since when have I spoken about how magblades haven't been requesting for viable non reflectable skills? Strawman, where? Seems like players such as yourself would rather destroy another classes identity rather than fix your own class. And on top of that you talk of counters to cloak (which is a far more BS ability than old wings) and how other players should slot the counters thereby gimping their build. How the heck is that any different than magblades slotting concealed to deal damage to DKs? No wonder people don't take the nightblade community seriously, it's filled with malfunctioning players such as yourself.

Now onto shimmering shield vs wings. Wings reflected 4 abilities while shimmering absorbed 3. Wings also reflected your abilities back at you basically heavily discouraging the use of reflectable skills. Sure. But what about what shimmering does? If spammed with projectiles the ability costs 1.5k magicka (not including any passives) which is pretty much a free cast and you would be able to spam this without end. What about the MAJOR HEROISM BUFF which increases your ulti gen by 2/s? Are you seriously telling me old wings was stronger than this? Only place I could see wings being comparable is in 1v1 duels which the game is absolutely unbalanced in. In literally any other form of PvP shimmering shield is far far stronger than old wings. Imagine DK's if they had shimmering instead of wings.

Insco851

“Face tank everything”

L2P

“No counter to range”

L2P

“I’m getting hit by dots”

L2P

Insco851

Neoauspex wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Old wings was a crutch. Adapt.

Ranged combat with no counters is a crutch

Have you tried.... slotting... a gap closer?

Davadin

you know the best gap closer for a DK? ones that has long range, have magicka damage morph, AoE stun, huge damage, and costs only 110 ultimate?

i mean, if a ranged class that picked a fight with me I can leap, and if they want to run away, they become a non-threat, which i don't bother chasing......


there's no such thing, for either mag or stamDK, to say we can't deal with ranged combat, with or without wings, new version or old.

i feel that DK that cries "OMG I'm being kited" simply need to try a different approach.

i die a LOT in Cyrodiil, but i rarely get kited. nuked, yes. face tanked, yes. ganked, yes. sniped, yes.

but kited?

break Line of Sight, Leap, Wings, Crit Strike, dodge, Volatile Armor, Psijic skill block passive, a bunch of SnB skill like Invasion or the one that gives 8% block discount when slotted.... and more.

again, just my 5c.

damtotb16_ESO

Insco851 wrote: »

MagNbs rejoice. We can finally attack a DK....

you always could in melee range

Valencer

likecats wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Oh, a good magblade can't kill a mediocre DK that keeps wings up?

If only mediocre nightblades had a skill or something that would allow them to become very hard to kill as well. Maybe make them untargetable for the duration? Hmmm

Make AOEs not break cloak, just allow the damage go through them.
Remove detect pots, mage light, flares.
Double duration to 6 seconds.
Allow the casting of any ability, including attacks and not have cloak broken.
Make cloak visible (not that it matters since your opponent can't attack you anyways).
The only counter to break cloak is to take substantial damage that takes at least 3 seconds.

Sounds broken no? Anyways, I guess its useless trying to explain further. Even if magblade slotted all possible counters, wings still reflect half of magblades toolkit which is broken. On the other hand, if you slot 1 counter to cloak, you can reliably kill any cloaking opponent. I guess if they gave me a detect pot equivalent that allowed all attacks to go through wings in <10m range, it wouldn't be so broken OP.

Cloak and Old wings are OP in different areas. Trying to conflate the two show a lack of understanding of the two abilities.
Cloak is way too strong in 1vX situations since you can mitigate avoid infinite damage from many opponents. In 1v1 its not worth slotting for any decent magblade. You are better off casting a shield which allows you to attack without losing your shields, and lasts 6 seconds.
Old wings were OP in 1v1 situations, but were destroyed too fast in 1vX situations.

If you think cloak is OP, then you should be happy for the new wings. They scale much much better in 1vX than the old wings.

No man, obviously wings and cloak were not and are not the same thing. But saying you cant kill something because it slotted X class skill and using that as an argument to justify nerfing said skill clearly only goes in one direction, because I can guarantee you you will not kill a nightblade or mag sorc that does not want to be killed either.

Neoauspex

Insco851 wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Old wings was a crutch. Adapt.

Ranged combat with no counters is a crutch

Have you tried.... slotting... a gap closer?

By counter I mean, counter. Something that punishes a player for using one strategy repeatedly. A gap closer would constitute a counter to ranged attacks if ranged attacks had a minimum range, but they don't. Nerfing things like wings and eclipse inch this game closer to a first person shooter because there's no negative to just spamming ranged attacks.

StShoot

Funny, despite all the player who said that it is a nerf in 1v1 and a buff in 1v x i feel the opposite.

in a 1 v 1 my healing/shields are big enaugh to outheal the dmg the enemy is doing, i dont have to spam the wings for the snare removel either. So its a nice buff to keep up, it does less dmg sure but more magica in return

But in 1/small group v X there is so much incoming Damage, CCs, LAs + enchantment/poison. Also i need to spam it every two seconds for the snare removal without any other real benefits.

Its not a problem to face one ranged enemy if he is alone, but 2/3 ranged players who know what they are doing will burn you down before you can do anything, you cant escape because most of the ranged classes have a higher mobility than mag dks, you could break LoS if you are lucky and have a big tree or a rock close to you.

I would be satisfied if they gave the wings the shimmering shield treatment, no reflect but snare removal + projectile absorption.

But if we allready talk about OP abillitys im all in for changing purifying ritual to reduce all dots by 50% but make it unable to remove debuffs since it forces my magdk into a diffrent playstyle with more direct burst and less dots (remember mag sorcs that thing removes also your curse ). (sarcasm )

Edit:
I saw some ppl saying that mag dks can use leap as a gap closer to counter ranged builds. Can i list some of the complains mag dks had over the last years and how they was answered ? ^^
Our Sustain sucks! Answer: Battlecry is realy Strong ! use your ulti to sustain.
We have no execute and less burst dmg (That was before the new whip )! Answer: Use Dragonleap it hits like an execute
We Lack mobility and a decent gapcloser ! Answer: Use Chains or the Dragonleap it is an hard hitting gapcloser

I know Dragonleap is a strong Ultimate, it is one of the only magica ults that come close to DboS, but you cant fix everything over a strong ultimate. If i use my ult for sustain its very unlikely that it will help me burst my enemy, if a magdk uses it as a gapcloser its like a wasted pot and puts you in a disadvantage. I dont want to discuss which one of those complaints is justified, i just wanted to point out that one the most given answers to mag dks over the last years was: Use Dragonleap it is ______________ (insert something here )

Davadin

they should add "absorb damage up to X" to the base and both morph of the skill.

Davadin

...or 100% full damage absorb for the first 2-4 sec.

Insco851

Davadin wrote: »

...or 100% full damage absorb for the first 2-4 sec.

Nope. You would get 3 projectiles at best just like shimmering.

Let’s say you can get hit with 6 projectiles in the 6 seconds (probably more but for the sake of argument) - with 50% damage reduction you basically take the same damage as 50% uptime on the 3 projectile version.

Edit: mdk also has a gap closer where as the magwarden does not. Chain pull if you don’t want to gap close into bad situations.

Davadin

Insco851 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

...or 100% full damage absorb for the first 2-4 sec.

Nope. You would get 3 projectiles at best just like shimmering.

Let’s say you can get hit with 6 projectiles in the 6 seconds (probably more but for the sake of argument) - with 50% damage reduction you basically take the same damage as 50% uptime on the 3 projectile version.

i was talking about changing the whole skill-line again to go between the old and the new.

instead of nerfing it fully from 100% reduction to 50% with longer duration, why not go half way?

give it 100% back for a short duration, and the rest of the duration can go 50%.

seems fair.

#changemymind

Insco851

Davadin wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

...or 100% full damage absorb for the first 2-4 sec.

Nope. You would get 3 projectiles at best just like shimmering.

Let’s say you can get hit with 6 projectiles in the 6 seconds (probably more but for the sake of argument) - with 50% damage reduction you basically take the same damage as 50% uptime on the 3 projectile version.

i was talking about changing the whole skill-line again to go between the old and the new.

instead of nerfing it fully from 100% reduction to 50% with longer duration, why not go half way?

give it 100% back for a short duration, and the rest of the duration can go 50%.

seems fair.

#changemymind

To put it on par with shimmering... I can’t see more than three projectiles being negated. This also wouldn’t stop the dots and the stuns. Just like shimmering.

LordTareq

I see more and more DK's running around with the sword & shield reflect. That can be nerfed next

Valencer wrote: »

Oh, a good magblade can't kill a mediocre DK that keeps wings up?

If only mediocre nightblades had a skill or something that would allow them to become very hard to kill as well. Maybe make them untargetable for the duration? Hmmm

Tell me more, because my NB doesn't have such an ability.

Davadin

Insco851 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

...or 100% full damage absorb for the first 2-4 sec.

Nope. You would get 3 projectiles at best just like shimmering.

Let’s say you can get hit with 6 projectiles in the 6 seconds (probably more but for the sake of argument) - with 50% damage reduction you basically take the same damage as 50% uptime on the 3 projectile version.

i was talking about changing the whole skill-line again to go between the old and the new.

instead of nerfing it fully from 100% reduction to 50% with longer duration, why not go half way?

give it 100% back for a short duration, and the rest of the duration can go 50%.

seems fair.

#changemymind

To put it on par with shimmering... I can’t see more than three projectiles being negated. This also wouldn’t stop the dots and the stuns. Just like shimmering.

this is DK.

i don't want Shimmering.

feel free to pass the dot and stuns, but I can't see having 3 projectiles negated is useful for that cost.

100% fully negated for 2 sec at least. or else don't bother changing anything. ZOS record in trying to "fix" stuff always ends up worse anyway.......

Davadin

LordTareq wrote: »

I see more and more DK's running around with the sword & shield reflect. That can be nerfed next

more and more?


most DK runs with SnB for years.......... it's amazing it hasn't been nerfed all this time.

Insco851

Davadin wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

...or 100% full damage absorb for the first 2-4 sec.

Nope. You would get 3 projectiles at best just like shimmering.

Let’s say you can get hit with 6 projectiles in the 6 seconds (probably more but for the sake of argument) - with 50% damage reduction you basically take the same damage as 50% uptime on the 3 projectile version.

i was talking about changing the whole skill-line again to go between the old and the new.

instead of nerfing it fully from 100% reduction to 50% with longer duration, why not go half way?

give it 100% back for a short duration, and the rest of the duration can go 50%.

seems fair.

#changemymind

To put it on par with shimmering... I can’t see more than three projectiles being negated. This also wouldn’t stop the dots and the stuns. Just like shimmering.

this is DK.

i don't want Shimmering.

feel free to pass the dot and stuns, but I can't see having 3 projectiles negated is useful for that cost.

100% fully negated for 2 sec at least. or else don't bother changing anything. ZOS record in trying to "fix" stuff always ends up worse anyway.......

DK and Wardens share the same issues from ranged opponents. Yet Dks have the ability to pull opponents to them or gap close.

Shimmering got a cost increase to equal wings this patch. Still gets some of the mag cost back. 3 projectiles. +Major heroism or a returned dmg.

Wings would be able to get the same 3 projectiles +immunity. You could even recoup some cost.

Your idea would basically revert wings back to the same previous broken mechanic. This would balance it with another standing skill.

—“Crystallized Shield:
Removed the cost reduction rank up from this ability and its morphs. They will now all cost 3780 at base.
The size of the shield from this ability will increase as the ability ranks up.
Adjusted the Magicka return to be 22% of the ability's cost instead of the previous base value.—“

Yet Zos decided to make dks different from shimmering (remember you don’t want it) and while shimmering lasts 1.5-2 seconds, you get a full 6 seconds of 50% mitigation.

My honest take- dks are not used to the pressure of dots and stuns as well as other range dmg and instead of trying to adapt- are crying they are squish without the op wings.

All while having the utility to gap close or pull the ranged opponent.... yet no one wants to slot it I guess.