So? How's DK wings in Live server?

Sanguinor2

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Guys the nerf already happened. We know ZOS is not gonna revert it. Can we get some actual feedback on how the new wings are performing on live for poor console plebs like me?

Well for me it was Pretty noticeable and I was still getting hit by 4.5k snipes (play light armor tho so not that high physical resistance) but I didnt Change anything yet so I just went into a bg with an older build. Havent tried out dfs yet either but I saw them on another dk that Morph seems to be the way better one between plate and dfs as Long as you can fit race against time on your bar.

JackAshes

I love to hear Jack Daniels rant about this topic because he is spot on. What ZOS is doing is Homogenizing the classes so each class looses its flavor and basically is getting the same skill with a different graphic. So eventually your defenses will be the same for all classes.

I primarily play 3 classes sorc, DK, and NB and what I love most about the game is understanding how to get through different classes defenses. When I am playing my Msorc against a DK I know I have to lead with curse and decide if I want to drop the old wings with 3 light attacks that will be reflected back or wait it out to see if they reapply. Staying away from destructive reach knowing it could be reflected. Then use force pulse and enchant procs to bypass wings or drop it. Then risk/reward a crystal frag. To me this is skillful game play and this is what ZOS took away from the class and the game. Now it’s like the same as all the others.....Next........

Chilly-McFreeze

JackAshes wrote: »

I love to hear Jack Daniels rant about this topic because he is spot on. What ZOS is doing is Homogenizing the classes so each class looses its flavor and basically is getting the same skill with a different graphic. So eventually your defenses will be the same for all classes.

Aside from the tiresome topic if wings were balanced or not - that right there is a real issue. They said they'll avoid homogenization but almost everything they did this patch was bringing skills "in line" without caring about how they work or affect different builds, classes or game modes differently. If that trend will continue we might as delete classes, cause everything that'll distinguish them is animations, sounds and a little icon on our bar.
But you know, "perfect balance" vs "class uniqueness" will never end well. Sorry for the OT.

Stibbons

Nice balance on Wings now.

Brrrofski

zParallaxz wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

I love being able to liberally use my ranged CC abilities without them getting reflected back in my face. Good change!

You ever think, maybe you shouldn’t spam a projectile at wings and use a skill the dk won’t reflect back. But oh wait you rather do that because your scared to face a dk in melee range.

Tell that to magica nightblade.

Spammable, = reflected
DOT = reflected
Execute = reflected
Light attacks = reflected
Burst skill = reflected

Wings were a hard counter to the entire class and it was stupid.

LordTareq

The new version is actually quite potent, the morph that shoots fireballs does significant damage (2500-3500 range) so you still can't mindless spam ranged attacks at the DK.

Laggus

Gilvoth wrote: »

we archers now have a chance to actually fight dragonights.

There's still Archers now?? What are you hitting high resistance builds with thats worth slotting bow as a main weapon with now?

NBrookus

Whenever I hear a player complain that Wings TOTALLY shut down ranged players, I hear "I use Flame Clench as my spammable."

Magblades had legit complains about Wings, but then my DKs have legit complaints about a ranged class with huge burst, a teleport and on-demand invisibility/dot suppression. Cloak *always* works. Unless I'm on my magblade, then cloak *never* works.

Rikumaru

likecats wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Funny thing is that people don't complain when their attacks are absorbed by a shield, evaded by cloak, dodge-rolled, blocked or nullified by a heal, but when their screw-ups come flying back to bite them in their asses, they suddenly become emotional ^_^

Yeah it's because the players who complained about wings were either a magicka nb or a zergling who chases down good solo / small group players and mindlessly spams reflectable projectiles such as snipe. These types of players don't want to engage their brain for some reason when playing so they come the the forums to get the skill nerfed. It's funny really considering old wings was far more healthy for the game than current invisibility from cloak.

Lies.

It's literally impossible for a pro-magblade to fight against 3 mediocre mDKs with old wings.Your opponents can simply reset the fight by spamming wings and you cannot afford to eat 4 projectiles to break them faster. Even if you are using 'counters' you still cannot use your burst, execute and utility or light attacks which account for majority of your damage. Good luck taking down tanky AF dk spamming force pulse.

On the other hand, I have 1v3ed so many mediocre magblades using various different specs. Most magblades have no sense of gameplay if you deny them their cloak. Pop a detect pot, burst one down. Usually the other two will die faster, but you can always wait for the next detect pot and take them down then.

If wings had a viable counter-play like detect pots, then yes they would be more healthy than cloak. If you think you can kill any half decent DK with only spamming force-pulse or concealed weapon, then you have been fighting the wrong DKs all along. Succinctly put, there was no viable counterplay to old wings when facing an opponent of similar calibre.

Lies? I literally said the people who complained about wings was either a magicka nb or a zergling. If you are anything other than a magicka nb you should not be complaining about wings as you have tools to damage the magicka DK (unless you are a ganker / using some weird build). As for "viable" counterplay to cloak, this patch there is decent counterplay with AOE's as they do comparable damage to single target spammables (which isn't healthy to have in the game either btw).

However det pots aren't great counterplay as you literally put yourself at a disadvantage just to get a chance to attack a cloak spamming nb for 12 seconds. I say this as a player who has played mostly stam / mag nb.

Zacuel

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

mDK has no way to play ranged. Wings helped with ranged dmg and reducing the gap between the ranged attacker and him. Now DKs have NOTHING.

As I've said before in other threads, Wings wasn't just a way for DKs to either close distance or escape - it was something that would be spammed pretty frequently while staying in melee range and going full bore on damage in order to avoid CC and counterpressure. If the ability was only used in the ways that you're describing, I wouldn't have had much problem with it...it's not like kiting is really a thing in ESO like it is in so many other MMOs.

The previous version of Wings went way too far in preventing most Magicka builds from being able to fight back effectively, and that has been needing to change for a very long time. Perhaps the change should have been something different from what ZOS ended up going with, that's something I'm not entirely sure about. But the previous version was ridiculous, and frankly the change took entirely too long to happen.

Zacuel wrote: »

What's RAT stand for?

Race Against Time.

Ty

likecats

Rikumaru wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Funny thing is that people don't complain when their attacks are absorbed by a shield, evaded by cloak, dodge-rolled, blocked or nullified by a heal, but when their screw-ups come flying back to bite them in their asses, they suddenly become emotional ^_^

Yeah it's because the players who complained about wings were either a magicka nb or a zergling who chases down good solo / small group players and mindlessly spams reflectable projectiles such as snipe. These types of players don't want to engage their brain for some reason when playing so they come the the forums to get the skill nerfed. It's funny really considering old wings was far more healthy for the game than current invisibility from cloak.

Lies.

It's literally impossible for a pro-magblade to fight against 3 mediocre mDKs with old wings.Your opponents can simply reset the fight by spamming wings and you cannot afford to eat 4 projectiles to break them faster. Even if you are using 'counters' you still cannot use your burst, execute and utility or light attacks which account for majority of your damage. Good luck taking down tanky AF dk spamming force pulse.

On the other hand, I have 1v3ed so many mediocre magblades using various different specs. Most magblades have no sense of gameplay if you deny them their cloak. Pop a detect pot, burst one down. Usually the other two will die faster, but you can always wait for the next detect pot and take them down then.

If wings had a viable counter-play like detect pots, then yes they would be more healthy than cloak. If you think you can kill any half decent DK with only spamming force-pulse or concealed weapon, then you have been fighting the wrong DKs all along. Succinctly put, there was no viable counterplay to old wings when facing an opponent of similar calibre.

Lies? I literally said the people who complained about wings was either a magicka nb or a zergling. If you are anything other than a magicka nb you should not be complaining about wings as you have tools to damage the magicka DK (unless you are a ganker / using some weird build). As for "viable" counterplay to cloak, this patch there is decent counterplay with AOE's as they do comparable damage to single target spammables (which isn't healthy to have in the game either btw).

However det pots aren't great counterplay as you literally put yourself at a disadvantage just to get a chance to attack a cloak spamming nb for 12 seconds. I say this as a player who has played mostly stam / mag nb.

This was your comment:

Rikumaru wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Funny thing is that people don't complain when their attacks are absorbed by a shield, evaded by cloak, dodge-rolled, blocked or nullified by a heal, but when their screw-ups come flying back to bite them in their asses, they suddenly become emotional ^_^

Yeah it's because the players who complained about wings were either a magicka nb or a zergling who chases down good solo / small group players and mindlessly spams reflectable projectiles such as snipe. These types of players don't want to engage their brain for some reason when playing so they come the the forums to get the skill nerfed. It's funny really considering old wings was far more healthy for the game than current invisibility from cloak.

Really bad formatting if you meant to exclude magblades from the insult.

bardx86

Xvorg wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Old wings were one of the most OP abilities in the game. Good change.

Each class had an op ability, by your logic they should nerf streak even further, nerf cloak, nerf purifying ritual, nerf shimmering shield, etc... Do you see my point? I’d love to see the forums melt if they were to nerf purge.

It was too good offensively. Made fighting ranged enemies easy mode AF. Reflecting damage was one thing but CC abilities was a little over the top.

mDK has no way to play ranged. Wings helped with ranged dmg and reducing the gap between the ranged attacker and him. Now DKs have NOTHING.

50% mitigation on projectiles is crap as long as you don't use projectiles.

Last night I killed like 5 or 6 DKs on a run on a melee mageblade, which is deemed as the worst spec in PvP, just by using CW, flame clench, lotus and sap essence. Those gusy the only thing they did was just flap their wings

This is a good thing. It will separate the good from the bad. You proved the point yourself. The ones you killed just flapped their wings. This tells me it was a crutch as it was all they needed to do in the past. Now they actually have to hit more than 1 skill. Ya it sucks to get nerfed but they will adapt and be better for it.

Bashev

Does the new wings skill work vs force pulse, meteor and dive or follow the same logic as the old skill?

DreadDaedroth

Cloak is the real crutch.

Zacuel

Anyone test swarm mother's?

The one that pulls ranged attackers to you.

If it works the way it sounds it would solve a lot of our problems.

ccmedaddy

Zacuel wrote: »

Anyone test swarm mother's?

The one that pulls ranged attackers to you.

If it works the way it sounds it would solve a lot of our problems.

Yeah it works the way it's supposed to, but I'm not sure why a DK would want to use it over chains.

Zacuel

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Zacuel wrote: »

Anyone test swarm mother's?

The one that pulls ranged attackers to you.

If it works the way it sounds it would solve a lot of our problems.

Yeah it works the way it's supposed to, but I'm not sure why a DK would want to use it over chains.

Well It doesn't specify the range. If it surpasses the chains range while costing nothing it's worth considering.

But I actually haven't tried it out. Which is why I'm inquiring about it here.

ccmedaddy

Zacuel wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Zacuel wrote: »

Anyone test swarm mother's?

The one that pulls ranged attackers to you.

If it works the way it sounds it would solve a lot of our problems.

Yeah it works the way it's supposed to, but I'm not sure why a DK would want to use it over chains.

Well It doesn't specify the range. If it surpasses the chains range while costing nothing it's worth considering.

But I actually haven't tried it out. Which is why I'm inquiring about it here.

Ah ok. I'm pretty sure Swarm Mother has no range restrictions since I had no problem pulling snipers in when I tried it out for fun last year. Keep it mind it grants CC immunity to pulled targets just like chains.

Here's a fairly recent clip (not mine) of Swarm Mother in action, which is incidentally the greatest ESO PvP clip ever documented on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeIuomN6ZZU

zParallaxz

bardx86 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Old wings were one of the most OP abilities in the game. Good change.

Each class had an op ability, by your logic they should nerf streak even further, nerf cloak, nerf purifying ritual, nerf shimmering shield, etc... Do you see my point? I’d love to see the forums melt if they were to nerf purge.

It was too good offensively. Made fighting ranged enemies easy mode AF. Reflecting damage was one thing but CC abilities was a little over the top.

mDK has no way to play ranged. Wings helped with ranged dmg and reducing the gap between the ranged attacker and him. Now DKs have NOTHING.

50% mitigation on projectiles is crap as long as you don't use projectiles.

Last night I killed like 5 or 6 DKs on a run on a melee mageblade, which is deemed as the worst spec in PvP, just by using CW, flame clench, lotus and sap essence. Those gusy the only thing they did was just flap their wings

This is a good thing. It will separate the good from the bad. You proved the point yourself. The ones you killed just flapped their wings. This tells me it was a crutch as it was all they needed to do in the past. Now they actually have to hit more than 1 skill. Ya it sucks to get nerfed but they will adapt and be better for it.

What’s stupider, a dk just spamming wings and doing no damage. Or the idiot still spamming a projectile against the skill that you know reflects projectiles. The people who blame wings for their death are cannon fodder in pvp. They don’t know how to disengage nor have an skill that is melee or non-reflectable.

Zacuel

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Zacuel wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Zacuel wrote: »

Anyone test swarm mother's?

The one that pulls ranged attackers to you.

If it works the way it sounds it would solve a lot of our problems.

Yeah it works the way it's supposed to, but I'm not sure why a DK would want to use it over chains.

Well It doesn't specify the range. If it surpasses the chains range while costing nothing it's worth considering.

But I actually haven't tried it out. Which is why I'm inquiring about it here.

Ah ok. I'm pretty sure Swarm Mother has no range restrictions since I had no problem pulling snipers in when I tried it out for fun last year. Keep it mind it grants CC immunity to pulled targets just like chains.

Here's a fairly recent clip (not mine) of Swarm Mother in action, which is incidentally the greatest ESO PvP clip ever documented on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeIuomN6ZZU

I can't watch at the moment. (Crappy data plan not home atm.). But it raises my hopes.

If I can pull other players from 28+ meters away so I can slap them around as my stamdk and use my gap closer to stay on them if they try to escape.

Might not be the end of the world after all.

zParallaxz

JackAshes wrote: »

I love to hear Jack Daniels rant about this topic because he is spot on. What ZOS is doing is Homogenizing the classes so each class looses its flavor and basically is getting the same skill with a different graphic. So eventually your defenses will be the same for all classes.

I primarily play 3 classes sorc, DK, and NB and what I love most about the game is understanding how to get through different classes defenses. When I am playing my Msorc against a DK I know I have to lead with curse and decide if I want to drop the old wings with 3 light attacks that will be reflected back or wait it out to see if they reapply. Staying away from destructive reach knowing it could be reflected. Then use force pulse and enchant procs to bypass wings or drop it. Then risk/reward a crystal frag. To me this is skillful game play and this is what ZOS took away from the class and the game. Now it’s like the same as all the others.....Next........

Exactly, as a dk main ( stam/mag) when I’ve fought the classic magsorc. You had to be aware of mines, roll dodge or block the frag, and to block endless fury and not dodge roll. Dk was a tough class to master but the highlight of the class was power lashing people through dodgeroll, it made people think to block when they break cc and not instantly roll dodge. That was what made the game interesting just like how Game of Thrones was in seasons 1-5, there are consequences for making mistakes.

UlfricWinterfell

Wings 1v1 = nerf
Wings 1vX = buffed

In fact stam dk got buffed cause its easier to heal with and leap is more accurate, i like it

TrinityBreaker

BNOC wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Old wings were one of the most OP abilities in the game. Good change.

Each class had an op ability, by your logic they should nerf streak even further, nerf cloak, nerf purifying ritual, nerf shimmering shield, etc... Do you see my point? I’d love to see the forums melt if they were to nerf purge.

I don't see your point, can you elaborate please? Very interested in Ritual's tie to being OP in specific?

If you want to talk about similar 'OP abilities', Total Dark was nerfed into the ground, god.. years ago. We used to have a reflect (though single target and which could be cleansed) component just like DK's.

If you want to relate it to anything, relate it to the former reflect of Total Dark and you'll see you're right in line.

Baphomet wrote: »

It was one of the worste changes since closed beta.

In the past, if you were fighting a DK with wings up, and you didn't change tactics or blocked or dodged your reflected projectiles, you had a serious l2p issue.

Old wings were working as intended and they weren't a problem at all if you knew how to play the game.

The new version is just a poor man's ice shield and another cumbersome thing to integrate into your rotation.

Almost time for the inevitable One Tamriel One Class patch.

Why did players that were having most of their abilities and light attacks reflected at them by an instant cast ability, that can be spammed at will on any decent build, have a l2p issue?

Unless you had godly mag regeneration, that skill could not be spammed. (Mag & Stam) DKs had other buffs to keep up. Not to mention sustain was *** *** for this class. How it goes for DKs is you either have damage/tankiness or tankiness/sustain, it was never all 3.

juhislihis19

Brrrofski wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

I love being able to liberally use my ranged CC abilities without them getting reflected back in my face. Good change!

You ever think, maybe you shouldn’t spam a projectile at wings and use a skill the dk won’t reflect back. But oh wait you rather do that because your scared to face a dk in melee range.

Tell that to magica nightblade.

Spammable, = reflected
DOT = reflected
Execute = reflected
Light attacks = reflected
Burst skill = reflected

Wings were a hard counter to the entire class and it was stupid.

To me, that looks like a class design fault on magblade's part rather than old wings being OP..

Betty_Booms

Actually people were working around wings by not slotting skills that were reflectable. In a pvp enviornment many skills simply werent being used as a result of this. So why bother slotting wings then? The argument is void.

So tell me how you justify reflective when its allegidly only working on bad players. Seriously its an l2play issue on both sides.. there is nothing skillful about spamming wings...but hey you might have to actually use your brain and l2play/ adapt to the new wings..besides you still have your double cc to crutch on?

Complaints i cant 1vx anymore qq...no one should be able to at equal skill.. that denotes an unbalanced class.

Baphomet

If @ZoS wants to justify the nerf, wings should also give major expedition for 4 seconds so that DKs at least can catch up to their targets and not just be sitting ducks for kiters.

It's not that the new wings perform horribly, but the nerf was just hands down too severe.

Insco851

Baphomet wrote: »

Because, if they weren't able to work around the mechanics of wings, they did indeed need to learn and adapt.

I've played and played against MagDKs with all the classes since launch, and I've never had an issue with successfully fighting them.

Granted, some builds more successfully than others, but changes in tactics always made up for it. You can't pingeon-hole into one specific setup and expect it to be equally effective against all other classes and builds.

It's the rocks-scissors-paper thing.... but ZoS is working hard to eliminate that aspect of the game.

Still, wings were the only things DKs had to make up for the lack of ranged damage, mobilty and defensive skills.

Rat for mobility (or chains)
Destro like every other magtoon.
“Slot Force pulse”
50% ranged mitigation+Fat ass heals.

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Thunderknuckles

...
Rat for mobility (or chains)
Destro like every other magtoon.
“Slot Force pulse”
50% ranged mitigation+Fat ass heals.

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Isn't that rather a tremendous exaggeration? There are really only two class types complaining about wings: magblades and drool dripping snipe spammers who really just want to sit back and kill their opponents from range with impunity and never have to deal with actually engaging another player. Well, now you can. That 50% damage reduction really doesn't help in PvP.

TheNorthernDragon

LordTareq wrote: »

I love being able to liberally use my ranged CC abilities without them getting reflected back in my face. Good change!

Yeah, I just love being a target.

Chelo

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Guys the nerf already happened. We know ZOS is not gonna revert it. Can we get some actual feedback on how the new wings are performing on live for poor console plebs like me?

Prepare to die a lot 😆