So? How's DK wings in Live server?

steussy

Chelo wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

I only did 2 BG last night, haven't been to Cyro. Elswyr new PvE content is too much fun.

But it really felt not too different last night compared to pre-release. yes, i got abit more incoming damage overall, but that's about it?

I'm melting DKs like they were insects hahahahaha XD

You melt insects? That's just wrong.

CompM4s

So many players need to L2p. There have been really good builds prior to wings that didnt even need it.

Sanguinor2

CompM4s wrote: »

So many players need to L2p. There have been really good builds prior to wings that didnt even need it.

Technically there havent been good dk builds, or any builds period, Prior to wings since wings were part of dk ever since launch.
That being said new wings are plenty good (well dfs, plate is complete crap unless you got bar space issues) and still worth slotting, just might have to build a bit more defense now.

Insco851

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

...
Rat for mobility (or chains)
Destro like every other magtoon.
“Slot Force pulse”
50% ranged mitigation+Fat ass heals.

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Isn't that rather a tremendous exaggeration? There are really only two class types complaining about wings: magblades and drool dripping snipe spammers who really just want to sit back and kill their opponents from range with impunity and never have to deal with actually engaging another player. Well, now you can. That 50% damage reduction really doesn't help in PvP.

LOL yea just like major protection sucks right?

Thunderknuckles

Insco851 wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

...
Rat for mobility (or chains)
Destro like every other magtoon.
“Slot Force pulse”
50% ranged mitigation+Fat ass heals.

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Isn't that rather a tremendous exaggeration? There are really only two class types complaining about wings: magblades and drool dripping snipe spammers who really just want to sit back and kill their opponents from range with impunity and never have to deal with actually engaging another player. Well, now you can. That 50% damage reduction really doesn't help in PvP.

LOL yea just like major protection sucks right?

Do you play a DK? I know 50% sounds like a ton of mitigation, but it doesn't seem to be doing much at all. Maybe it's bugged?

Insco851

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

...
Rat for mobility (or chains)
Destro like every other magtoon.
“Slot Force pulse”
50% ranged mitigation+Fat ass heals.

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Isn't that rather a tremendous exaggeration? There are really only two class types complaining about wings: magblades and drool dripping snipe spammers who really just want to sit back and kill their opponents from range with impunity and never have to deal with actually engaging another player. Well, now you can. That 50% damage reduction really doesn't help in PvP.

LOL yea just like major protection sucks right?

Do you play a DK? I know 50% sounds like a ton of mitigation, but it doesn't seem to be doing much at all. Maybe it's bugged?

Yes, I’ve played MDK in pvp. Before and during the swift meta it was my main. Pretty sure I had one of the fastest mDKs at the time. Swift meta was hilarious for that.

My theory on why the 50% mitigation feels bugged or that it doesn’t do anything.... Most DKs became overly reliant on on 100% mitigation from range. The amount of survivability required in the build was thus much lower.

DKs have tremendous heals fwiw. I think people are still learning how to adapt to more incoming pressure. This means you probably need to slot another heal, or ward, or survival tool. Use LoS more instead of face tanking ranged opponents in an open field. But 50% mitigation SOUNDS strong af. And it should be....

I ran a very low regen double dmg set+bloodspawn. Ward and Coagulating and wings... Everything else was taking a max dmg morph. I don’t expect this build to work or survive nearly as effectively in this patch.

Counter argument: MAYBE it is bugged.

TrinityBreaker

Baphomet wrote: »

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Same can be said about cloak. You know the whole DoT suppression thing negates DoT builds, but you don't see many people [snip] about that though.

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Veg

https://i.imgur.com/5OsiGIE.jpg

LiraTaurwen

Don't play or have a DK but it's a boring change, was fun watching people eat their own cc lol

DreadDaedroth

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Isn't that rather a tremendous exaggeration? There really only two class types complaining about wings: magblades and drool dripping snipe spammers who really just want to sit back and kill their opponents from range with impunity and never have to deal with actually engaging another player. Well, now you can.

Players don't want to deal with repercussion, they want to click buttons and annihilate everyone...

zParallaxz

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Same can be said about cloak. You know the whole DoT suppression thing negates DoT builds, but you don't see many people [snip] about that though.

[Edit for censor bypass.]

People forget that a dk can only essentially kill a nightblade that cloaks with just whip or an ult. The forums raises hell about wings being a total counter to “range” builds ( which it should, stop being afraid to fight in melee and then run when someone comes towards you) but people forget that still after 4+ years nightblades still cloak out of talons, ultimates, and suppresses the majority of dot damage.

Vapirko

I’m perfectly fine with the wings change. I do play heavy instead of light in no CP now but that’s fine. I think it was a fair change and the dragon fire scales morph is a really decent amount of damage and it’s firing back at anyone on you with range which is brilliant vs ranged noobs who don’t even heal themselves lol. I think it’s a really fun 1vX tool. I use RAT for my snare removal and the major expedition and minor force doesn’t hurt. Plus now when I beat mag sorcs they can’t *** about being a wings carry.

likecats

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Same can be said about cloak. You know the whole DoT suppression thing negates DoT builds, but you don't see many people [snip] about that though.

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Not even close to equivalent.

Going in cloak does not return the DOT damage to the DK at a premium rate and it is half the duration of wings.
On top of that, you can actually break cloak for with a ton of abilities that most meta builds slot irregardless of a NBs presence. What I mean by that is you don't have any ability that breaks wings, only abilities that go through wings. To break wings, you have to take substantial amount of damage which is not feasible to maintain in the slightest. Not only do you do no damage, you waste GCDs + resources to take your own damage, just so you can start doing damage to DKs. That was in no way equivalent to cloak suppressing DOTs.

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass.]

Kadoin

I never used wings, so all I did was get buffed. My DK also uses light armor in PvP (mag) , and medium (stam) and always has.

Sanguinor2

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

likecats

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

A couple of reasons.

First, it absorbs 3 attacks, which usually means 2/3 attacks would be light attacks. The shield comes off real fast. And the investment to break the shield is pretty low (1 ability). There is no way a warden can go on the offensive and keep shields up against any opponent.

On the other hand, if you want to break the DKs shield fast, you have to invest x2 the resources plus take very high amounts of your own damage on top of that. This makes a huge huge difference.

Absorbing more damage abilities does not always work against a DKs favor.
Contrary to what DKs consider a counter to wings (force pulse), it isn't necessarily so. In the past, if you slot force pulse, essentially means that the DKs wings lasts at least 4 seconds, since you're only breaking it with light attacks. This is unlike warden's shield which you can break in about 1.5 seconds using a force pulse build.

The thing is that light attacks (including their enchants) account for like 30-40% of your DPS, which still makes it so can't really kill a DK if your light attacks are continually reflected.

I would say that a snare removal, even if its 2s, is a really potent buff to have on your bar. If given a choice, I would take an unconditional snare removal over the conditional major heroism.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

Sanguinor2

likecats wrote: »

A couple of reasons.

First, it absorbs 3 attacks, which usually means 2/3 attacks would be light attacks. The shield comes off real fast. And the investment to break the shield is pretty low (1 ability). There is no way a warden can go on the offensive and keep shields up against any opponent.

On the other hand, if you want to break the DKs shield fast, you have to invest x2 the resources plus take very high amounts of your own damage on top of that. This makes a huge huge difference.

Absorbing more damage abilities does not always work against a DKs favor.
Contrary to what DKs consider a counter to wings (force pulse), it isn't necessarily so. In the past, if you slot force pulse, essentially means that the DKs wings lasts at least 4 seconds, since you're only breaking it with light attacks. This is unlike warden's shield which you can break in about 1.5 seconds using a force pulse build.

The thing is that light attacks (including their enchants) account for like 30-40% of your DPS, which still makes it so can't really kill a DK if your light attacks are continually reflected.

I would say that a snare removal, even if its 2s, is a really potent buff to have on your bar. If given a choice, I would take an unconditional snare removal over the conditional major heroism.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

And I didnt say otherwise, I just Always found it funny to Play stamden and be able to infinitely Sustain a magicka ability that negates ranged Damage and gives me Major heroism and both accomplish the same in making you much harder to kill if you fight a ranged build, but yeah as I said in other Posts I can understand why they wanted to Change wings. I dont really like it since so many Things that made a dk a dk on launch are gone with the reflect removal and I wouldve prefered making it not reflect in melee range (or close range) and make it still reflect on longer ranges but it happened and its not gonna Change anytime soon, time to shelf plate again, its quite funny actually how wings and many other abilities Always have 1 Morph that just outperforms the other one so much.

zParallaxz

likecats wrote: »

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Same can be said about cloak. You know the whole DoT suppression thing negates DoT builds, but you don't see many people [snip] about that though.


[Edit for censor bypass]

Not even close to equivalent.

Going in cloak does not return the DOT damage to the DK at a premium rate and it is half the duration of wings.
On top of that, you can actually break cloak for with a ton of abilities that most meta builds slot irregardless of a NBs presence. What I mean by that is you don't have any ability that breaks wings, only abilities that go through wings. To break wings, you have to take substantial amount of damage which is not feasible to maintain in the slightest. Not only do you do no damage, you waste GCDs + resources to take your own damage, just so you can start doing damage to DKs. That was in no way equivalent to cloak suppressing DOTs.

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

You and I both know if any nightblade has any source of movement speed they will always move out of the range of any cloak detecting ability besides detect pots. I hate when people bring up the “ there’s so many counters” argument on cloak. Yes there are counters but they only work if the nightblade doesn’t move out of the range of your ability. Too many times people has used mage light or other aoe skills to attempt to pull someone out of cloak ( even when your right on top of them) only for it to fail and your resources are wasted.

zParallaxz

likecats wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

A couple of reasons.

First, it absorbs 3 attacks, which usually means 2/3 attacks would be light attacks. The shield comes off real fast. And the investment to break the shield is pretty low (1 ability). There is no way a warden can go on the offensive and keep shields up against any opponent.

On the other hand, if you want to break the DKs shield fast, you have to invest x2 the resources plus take very high amounts of your own damage on top of that. This makes a huge huge difference.

Absorbing more damage abilities does not always work against a DKs favor.
Contrary to what DKs consider a counter to wings (force pulse), it isn't necessarily so. In the past, if you slot force pulse, essentially means that the DKs wings lasts at least 4 seconds, since you're only breaking it with light attacks. This is unlike warden's shield which you can break in about 1.5 seconds using a force pulse build.

The thing is that light attacks (including their enchants) account for like 30-40% of your DPS, which still makes it so can't really kill a DK if your light attacks are continually reflected.

I would say that a snare removal, even if its 2s, is a really potent buff to have on your bar. If given a choice, I would take an unconditional snare removal over the conditional major heroism.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

I beg to differ, your argument is on the premise that the person using range doesn’t have any ability slotted that goes through wings nor does wings has the same uptime as shimmering. Shimmering last longer, cost nothing, and could be used rapidly to have easy access to major heroism.

Theignson

Wings (protective scale) really suck now, I stopped equipping them.

Now as a brawling DK, when I hear the bowtards spamming me from range while I'm meleeing, there is nothing I can do about it. In the past I could flap wings and keep fighting locally.

Now you have to LOS-- same thing with sorcs bombing you-- DK is not as strong now.

Maybe I will try the fire morph.

It isn't so bad, I have a different line up, I LOS more in combat, but I miss the wings.

Ariades_swe

zParallaxz wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Reflect wings was eliminating entire specs with 1 button.

Same can be said about cloak. You know the whole DoT suppression thing negates DoT builds, but you don't see many people [snip] about that though.

[Edit for censor bypass]

Not even close to equivalent.

Going in cloak does not return the DOT damage to the DK at a premium rate and it is half the duration of wings.
On top of that, you can actually break cloak for with a ton of abilities that most meta builds slot irregardless of a NBs presence. What I mean by that is you don't have any ability that breaks wings, only abilities that go through wings. To break wings, you have to take substantial amount of damage which is not feasible to maintain in the slightest. Not only do you do no damage, you waste GCDs + resources to take your own damage, just so you can start doing damage to DKs. That was in no way equivalent to cloak suppressing DOTs.

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

You and I both know if any nightblade has any source of movement speed they will always move out of the range of any cloak detecting ability besides detect pots. I hate when people bring up the “ there’s so many counters” argument on cloak. Yes there are counters but they only work if the nightblade doesn’t move out of the range of your ability. Too many times people has used mage light or other aoe skills to attempt to pull someone out of cloak ( even when your right on top of them) only for it to fail and your resources are wasted.

Excactly.
They love to state how their class is so squishy and how cloak sucks.
Yet half of the nonzergers in cyro are a stam nightblade.

Rikumaru

likecats wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

What? I would take shimmering over old wings on my DKs any day, it gives MAJOR HEROISM, absorbs the projectiles and grants some magicka back making it basically a free cast. But hey lets nerf wings, an inferior skill because I can't engage my brain and understand that my projectiles will be reflected back at me if I hit wings! Yay for interesting and diverse class design!

Liww

its not a nerf to strength but yet again a nerf to counter play.

Soon we will only tank and wait for ults to go up for a kill window.

oh wait

VirtualElizabeth

Wait...I am confused. Can you not the see the wing animation anymore or did I read that wrong?

Returning player btw.

likecats

zParallaxz wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

A couple of reasons.

First, it absorbs 3 attacks, which usually means 2/3 attacks would be light attacks. The shield comes off real fast. And the investment to break the shield is pretty low (1 ability). There is no way a warden can go on the offensive and keep shields up against any opponent.

On the other hand, if you want to break the DKs shield fast, you have to invest x2 the resources plus take very high amounts of your own damage on top of that. This makes a huge huge difference.

Absorbing more damage abilities does not always work against a DKs favor.
Contrary to what DKs consider a counter to wings (force pulse), it isn't necessarily so. In the past, if you slot force pulse, essentially means that the DKs wings lasts at least 4 seconds, since you're only breaking it with light attacks. This is unlike warden's shield which you can break in about 1.5 seconds using a force pulse build.

The thing is that light attacks (including their enchants) account for like 30-40% of your DPS, which still makes it so can't really kill a DK if your light attacks are continually reflected.

I would say that a snare removal, even if its 2s, is a really potent buff to have on your bar. If given a choice, I would take an unconditional snare removal over the conditional major heroism.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

I beg to differ, your argument is on the premise that the person using range doesn’t have any ability slotted that goes through wings nor does wings has the same uptime as shimmering. Shimmering last longer, cost nothing, and could be used rapidly to have easy access to major heroism.

I already addressed that issue.
Suppose you do have force pulse slotted, here are your options:
1) Weave light attacks with force pulse -> Wings last 4 GCDs
2) Light attack 4 times continuosly -> Wings last about 3 seconds (decent dmg taken considering enchants)

Suppose you have swallow soul slotted:
3) Light attack with swallow soul -> Wings last 2 GCD + substantial damage + 5400 magicka lost

Decide it is not worth taking damage to break wings
4) Wings last 6 seconds

In scenario 1, you are doing some damage. But you have to be deluded in thinking any semi competent DK is going to die to simple force pulse spam. Light attacks account for about 30-40% dps when considering enchants/poisons. You can't land your burst skills until you wear down the wings. So wings become a defacto 4s long.

Whereas consider shimmering:
1) Light attack + swallow soul + light attack -> broken in less than 1.5 seconds (only 2700 magicka unlike the 5400).

Ultimately, you are greatly discounted the 'reflect' portion of the wings. It absolutely makes it significantly stronger than shimmering. Additionally the fact that shimmering can literally be broken in 1.5 seconds means that a warden can't go on the offensive with shimmering shield active.Either he keeps spamming shimmering, or he instantly becomes vulnerable to damage. Wings on the other hand allow at least 1 GCD worth of offensive time + it also reflects a **** done of damage.

As for the cost, you are discounting how much damage reflected forces your opponent to lose resources healing back up.

We can agree to disagree, but the old wings was much stronger than shimmering in practice. And I say this as a person who has tried all kinds of counters against shimmering shields and wings.

Cathexis

Is it true that both cloak AND wings have been nerfed?
Praise Malacath! Praise Trinimac! The blood of heathens flows strong.

likecats

Rikumaru wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The warden shimmering shield is more equivalent to cloak negating DOTs. And honestly I see more ppl [snip] about cloak negating DOTs than shimmering shield negating projectiles nowadays.

PS: I have no objections if cloak does start taking damage by DOTs during cloak. But it was in absolutely no way equivalent to the old wings negating projectile builds.

[Edit for censor bypass]

I Always found it amusing that no one complains About shimmering Shield, until recently it was nearly free to cast if you absorbed 3 projectiles, it absorbs more Damage abilities than wings and it gives one of the strongest buffs in the game.

TL;DR The old wings are absolutely more stronger than the current shimmering.

What? I would take shimmering over old wings on my DKs any day, it gives MAJOR HEROISM, absorbs the projectiles and grants some magicka back making it basically a free cast. But hey lets nerf wings, an inferior skill because I can't engage my brain and understand that my projectiles will be reflected back at me if I hit wings! Yay for interesting and diverse class design!

Good for you. I already explained why magblade, even if slotting all the possible counters against wings, is still heavily countered by one button. If you want to readdress my arguments I made to you a few days ago you're welcome. But your ignorance leads me to believe that you have none coming.

Sanguinor2

Cathexis wrote: »

Is it true that both cloak AND wings have been nerfed?
Praise Malacath! Praise Trinimac! The blood of heathens flows strong.

Only the tanking Morph of cloak has changed so no to the invisibility cloak^^

Cathexis

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Is it true that both cloak AND wings have been nerfed?
Praise Malacath! Praise Trinimac! The blood of heathens flows strong.

Only the tanking Morph of cloak has changed so no to the invisibility cloak^^

Oh really? My thief's invisibility only lasts 1 second now. To remain invisible now you have to spam cloak. Net mag costs has skyrocketed.

Insco851

Cathexis wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Is it true that both cloak AND wings have been nerfed?
Praise Malacath! Praise Trinimac! The blood of heathens flows strong.

Only the tanking Morph of cloak has changed so no to the invisibility cloak^^

Oh really? My thief's invisibility only lasts 1 second now. To remain invisible now you have to spam cloak. Net mag costs has skyrocketed.

Had read this is because it needs to be leveled and gains time as it’s leveled