Stamblade post patch PvP

LordTareq

Liww wrote: »

first off the changes are meh, I still see alot of viability in my NB, what I dont understand is how they nerfed the living *** out of the damage but kept perma cloaking viable. i've been s&b/2h dark cloak brawling ever since I made my blade but i've NEVER heard complaints about me, it's always the 'cloaks-all-day-long' type of NB's that get the hate.

I havent been ganked in ages outside of an onslaught gank, even on my main medium 2h/bow stamsorc with 18k resistances. Did the changes aim for them to become just a nuisance?

idk, tbh.

Perma-cloak as a stamblade? Que?

Royalthought

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

I often wonder..

Why werent we telling people asking for nerfs to adapt?

Who are these players that couldnt kill nightblades and desperately needed Zos to nerf the class?

It makes no sense to claim nightblades were so strong that they needed to be nerfed. Yet they need to adapt? Adapting too well is what got them nerfed.

You don't tell people to adapt to the status quo. You only adapt to changes. If anything, you could have said "Learn 2 play". And guess what? That's what was told in every thread about NB performance.

Point missed. This isnt the first round of nightblade nerfs. But each time theyve been nerfed, they've adapted.

And after they adapt, the players who cant manage to win a fight against nbs flood the forums, begging for even more nerfs.

And after they get nerfs those same players live in nightblade posts saying adapt/L2P. And guess what? Thats in every nightblade thread...

Chilly-McFreeze

Royalthought wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

I often wonder..

Why werent we telling people asking for nerfs to adapt?

Who are these players that couldnt kill nightblades and desperately needed Zos to nerf the class?

It makes no sense to claim nightblades were so strong that they needed to be nerfed. Yet they need to adapt? Adapting too well is what got them nerfed.

You don't tell people to adapt to the status quo. You only adapt to changes. If anything, you could have said "Learn 2 play". And guess what? That's what was told in every thread about NB performance.

Point missed. This isnt the first round of nightblade nerfs. But each time theyve been nerfed, they've adapted.

And after they adapt, the players who cant manage to win a fight against nbs flood the forums, begging for even more nerfs.

And after they get nerfs those same players live in nightblade posts saying adapt/L2P. And guess what? Thats in every nightblade thread...

Ah, those dudes are in every thread about everything. If someone wants to defend their op stuff it's always "l2p", if someone has schadenfreude about some nerfs they'll throw that adapt at you. Same old, same old. And as soon as they got their nerfs through, they set full sails on the next best thing they deem nerf-worthy.

Royalthought

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

I often wonder..

Why werent we telling people asking for nerfs to adapt?

Who are these players that couldnt kill nightblades and desperately needed Zos to nerf the class?

It makes no sense to claim nightblades were so strong that they needed to be nerfed. Yet they need to adapt? Adapting too well is what got them nerfed.

You don't tell people to adapt to the status quo. You only adapt to changes. If anything, you could have said "Learn 2 play". And guess what? That's what was told in every thread about NB performance.

Point missed. This isnt the first round of nightblade nerfs. But each time theyve been nerfed, they've adapted.

And after they adapt, the players who cant manage to win a fight against nbs flood the forums, begging for even more nerfs.

And after they get nerfs those same players live in nightblade posts saying adapt/L2P. And guess what? Thats in every nightblade thread...

Ah, those dudes are in every thread about everything. If someone wants to defend their op stuff it's always "l2p", if someone has schadenfreude about some nerfs they'll throw that adapt at you. Same old, same old. And as soon as they got their nerfs through, they set full sails on the next best thing they deem nerf-worthy.

Yea. Its wierd. Personally, I see the game as a whole. I like to play each class and feel strong and effective and in different ways.

But some only want it one way.

Things seem to only be OP when its a class they dont favor. Balance is generally undesirable for them. Their real goal on the forums is to lobby to make other classes weak.

Im fine with players asking for improvements for each class. Those that spend time trying to prevent that for any class are the ones that dont wont competitive balance.

red_dog82

I have tried very hard to adapt to the changes. I play bow/2h stamblade and have tried many, many different combinations to be relevant again in BGs. After a few days of back-to-back BG testing, I decided to park my NB until something is done. I switched to PvPing on my bomber sorc which is a blast (haha, get it?) to play. Will come back to NB when they get a little bit more love.

Funny thing is - I actively focus and hunt down NBs in BGs on my sorc because they are so simple to kill and pressure now. They try to snipe or cloak/surprise attack I just shield and twilight heal/exchange on them then blow them up with curse/frag/fury/reach: usually one combo does it. They try to stealth away and you just run their stealth direction with storm on and poof, found them.

A NB once got me with a good surprise attack/dizzying swing spam. But I was taking a phone call so...

Anyway, this is why you need alts. When one gets nerfed, just hop on another till the storm blows over.

Thogard

Iskiab wrote: »

Liww wrote: »

first off the changes are meh, I still see alot of viability in my NB, what I dont understand is how they nerfed the living *** out of the damage but kept perma cloaking viable. i've been s&b/2h dark cloak brawling ever since I made my blade but i've NEVER heard complaints about me, it's always the 'cloaks-all-day-long' type of NB's that get the hate.

I havent been ganked in ages outside of an onslaught gank, even on my main medium 2h/bow stamsorc with 18k resistances. Did the changes aim for them to become just a nuisance?

idk, tbh.

I think so yes, exactly. I think devs caved in to forum whining and all the class reps/streamers complaining.

It became the ‘in’ thing to do. Complain about Nightblades while excluding them from your pvp guild and playing all Wardens and

You can look at it two ways. Either they rolled the fotm classes and were they were legitimately concerned because they were complaining about their counter classes so actually saw them as OP, or that they were just trying to help their specs and their friend’s specs (since NBs are almost nonexistent in large pvp guilds and higher MMR) and completely biased. You choose.

End result was NBs got a hefty mitigation buff, but damage has been hit. I don’t think the end result is too bad though.

You’re welcome, everyone.

Iskiab

Wardens are only stacked in some guilds. For the larger pvp guilds the only class I’ve seen people say ‘no thank you’ is Stamblades. Magblades are wanted too, it’s only stamblade.

That might change since they have more mitigation, who knows, but perceptions take longer to change then reality.

Sureshawt

g_gorostizab14_ESO wrote: »

I have tried very hard to adapt to the changes. I play bow/2h stamblade and have tried many, many different combinations to be relevant again in BGs. After a few days of back-to-back BG testing, I decided to park my NB until something is done.

I've decided to park the entire game myself.

A game this old should not be experiencing such huge balance changes and the fact that it is shows they are making changes based on knee jerk reactions without any long term direction or vision for the classes.

Thogard

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

ScruffyWhiskers

Thogard wrote: »

where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

Well i personally thought your stream where you "dueled" people with your stamblade bow build at one of the quest towns was the funniest thing that I have seen other than De Longest getting a massive musical t-bag party on his grave a few months ago.

The burst from stealth style is pretty much reviled but like the Fire Swamp, it does keep you on your toes while you ride your horse around or pew pew from the back line. It's like bacteria really. An invisible but important part of the ecosystem.

Thogard

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

Well i personally thought your stream where you "dueled" people with your stamblade bow build at one of the quest towns was the funniest thing that I have seen other than De Longest getting a massive musical t-bag party on his grave a few months ago.

The burst from stealth style is pretty much reviled but like the Fire Swamp, it does keep you on your toes while you ride your horse around or pew pew from the back line. It's like bacteria really. An invisible but important part of the ecosystem.

Haha thanks. I will miss the meme potential of the old stamblade, but i think it’s a fair sacrifice for a better and more effective class over all.

Gank stamblades this patch are like ROUS - I don’t believe in them anyway

lukoi

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

The burst from stealth style is pretty much reviled but like the Fire Swamp, it does keep you on your toes while you ride your horse around or pew pew from the back line.

Best analogy I've read on the internet in forever. Kudos good Sir!

mursie

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

you are a real hero - i saw some of your content. it is never an easy thing killing people with a pocket healer in your group. truly commendable.

stamblade stealth burst was THE defining characteristic and whole point of the class. see the first passive in their class line called aptly enough "ASSASSINATION" for more clarity on that subject.

this snb brawler crap is just that. homogenizing the classes to one spec one outcome.

can you now play the nb as a snb brawler wearing 5 pc heavy armor for a 13 second uptime on ward with great mitigation due to change in relentless? sure.

is it a rogue assassin the way it was intended to be via the name of the class, the name of the abilities (surprise attack anyone) and the name of the class line and passives... as well as the bonuses of those passives? no.

did we really need to change NB to function more like a DK for pvp? can't we have diversity in playstyles?

at this point - stam are all running around with snb, using heroic and reverb. building ult, and bursting with dawnbreaker. the homogenized meta incarnate.

congratulations i guess. congratulations-

signed - a nb that enjoyed navigating tricky aoe infested terrains within bg's, looking for opportunities to surprise attack from stealth into a bursty incap/spectral bow combo. utilizing shade and cloak to kite where the typical brawler defenses lacked due to the rogue squishy nature of the class. now relegated to a snb brawler with dark cloak, using relentless to further mitigate dmg, setting up d-swings with heroic slash and executing with reverse slice / onslaught - otherwise known as - insert stam toon here.

ChefZero

mursie wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

at this point - stam are all running around with snb, using heroic and reverb. building ult, and bursting with dawnbreaker. the homogenized meta incarnate.

This or the new bleed builds.

Chilly-McFreeze

ChefZero wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

at this point - stam are all running around with snb, using heroic and reverb. building ult, and bursting with dawnbreaker. the homogenized meta incarnate.

This or the new bleed builds.

New? What did I miss?

Thogard

mursie wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

you are a real hero - i saw some of your content. it is never an easy thing killing people with a pocket healer in your group. truly commendable.

stamblade stealth burst was THE defining characteristic and whole point of the class. see the first passive in their class line called aptly enough "ASSASSINATION" for more clarity on that subject.

this snb brawler crap is just that. homogenizing the classes to one spec one outcome.

can you now play the nb as a snb brawler wearing 5 pc heavy armor for a 13 second uptime on ward with great mitigation due to change in relentless? sure.

is it a rogue assassin the way it was intended to be via the name of the class, the name of the abilities (surprise attack anyone) and the name of the class line and passives... as well as the bonuses of those passives? no.

did we really need to change NB to function more like a DK for pvp? can't we have diversity in playstyles?

at this point - stam are all running around with snb, using heroic and reverb. building ult, and bursting with dawnbreaker. the homogenized meta incarnate.

congratulations i guess. congratulations-

signed - a nb that enjoyed navigating tricky aoe infested terrains within bg's, looking for opportunities to surprise attack from stealth into a bursty incap/spectral bow combo. utilizing shade and cloak to kite where the typical brawler defenses lacked due to the rogue squishy nature of the class. now relegated to a snb brawler with dark cloak, using relentless to further mitigate dmg, setting up d-swings with heroic slash and executing with reverse slice / onslaught - otherwise known as - insert stam toon here.

Yeah when fighting 10 people in Vivec lag I’m certainly not gonna feel bad about having a pocket healer.

Using the “it fits the lore” excuse to justify balance decisions has always been cringe. The names of the skill trees are irrelevant.

Sure, staying out of the red circles can be hard for stamblades. It’s a shame that the skill involved in doing so won’t be as rewarded as it was.

But now that stamblades have staying power they can actually stay with their group during BG fights. They can still spec for heavy dmg, and now they can help their teammates by applying minor vulnerability to their targets.

You talk about not being able to play your stamblade in BGs. It’s the opposite. Now you can play your stamblade in BGs without knowing that queueing on that class is sentencing your team to a loss while the stamblades pad their own K/D ratio by stealing kills and then running off and abandoning their team before those red circles hit them.

Losing minor berserk isn’t that big a deal. And if you’re with your team, losing major fracture isn’t an issue anyway because a teammate will have it. Same with the defile on incap.

The stamblade playstyle that got nerfed the hardest was mine - the full ganker / assassin - and I’m really glad it was.

Your playstyle, if you stay with your group, was buffed.

Edit: btw I’m in a car ride through Arizona right now so I got time to kill lol.

I do agree about the homogenization though. But i think the ganker archetype, in a group setting like BGs, is still just as viable, if not more so. I’m playing what I’m familiar with but Faso was having a ton of success last night on his medium armor 2h / bow build. He hasnt streamed that build yet so I think most people are still using what I’m running as the example of the new style, but all I did was take the gear from my DK and put it on my stamblade.

Imo cloak would need to get nerfed hard in order for nb burst dmg to be justified in getting bumped back up. The ganks only worked on really new players, which is the type of player ZOS is trying to protect.

Royalthought

mursie wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

you are a real hero - i saw some of your content. it is never an easy thing killing people with a pocket healer in your group. truly commendable.

stamblade stealth burst was THE defining characteristic and whole point of the class. see the first passive in their class line called aptly enough "ASSASSINATION" for more clarity on that subject.

this snb brawler crap is just that. homogenizing the classes to one spec one outcome.

can you now play the nb as a snb brawler wearing 5 pc heavy armor for a 13 second uptime on ward with great mitigation due to change in relentless? sure.

is it a rogue assassin the way it was intended to be via the name of the class, the name of the abilities (surprise attack anyone) and the name of the class line and passives... as well as the bonuses of those passives? no.

did we really need to change NB to function more like a DK for pvp? can't we have diversity in playstyles?

at this point - stam are all running around with snb, using heroic and reverb. building ult, and bursting with dawnbreaker. the homogenized meta incarnate.

congratulations i guess. congratulations-

signed - a nb that enjoyed navigating tricky aoe infested terrains within bg's, looking for opportunities to surprise attack from stealth into a bursty incap/spectral bow combo. utilizing shade and cloak to kite where the typical brawler defenses lacked due to the rogue squishy nature of the class. now relegated to a snb brawler with dark cloak, using relentless to further mitigate dmg, setting up d-swings with heroic slash and executing with reverse slice / onslaught - otherwise known as - insert stam toon here.

Interesting point.

Some claim they hate Fotm and/or meta.

Yet we have people supporting playstyles being nerfed for the sake of requiring players to use the "proper build."

Shot out to one of my favorite streamers @JackDaniell

Love making builds that dont follow the "rules."

Izaki

With a proper build, its fine. Sure you lose some penetration, but with the added 15% mitigation from Relentless, you can afford to drop Bloodspawn for Slimecraw for the Minor Berserk. I was playing a build with high crit chance from the start, so the 1 piece bonus is fine by me. Replaced Spriggan with Night Mother's Gaze. With the new SA debuff, you only lose about 2k penetration in most cases, so not too much of a big deal. Damage wise, not much was lost. 2k Penetration and about 100 weapon damage (more on that below).

The biggest nerf was the removal of Minor Endurance and incidently the loss of Bloodspawn's 1 piece recovery, since you'd have to run an extra Stamina Recovery glyph in order to compensate. However, I found that Reave and Phantasmal Escape sort of make up for half of it. Since I'm PvEing a lot, I've remorphed Shadow Image to Dark Shade, which isn't much use in PvP, so I can use Phantasmal Escape rather freely. The other half, is made up by changing up my jewelry enchants slightly. I used to run 2 Infused Weapon damage and 1 Triune Recovery, now its 1 Infused Recovery, 1 Infused Weapon damage and 1 Triune Weapon Damage.

Overall, I'm doing just fine. There's a slight loss of damage, but you can work around that by playing slightly differently. I've seen people trying to use Mark and Ambush, which in my opinion is quite useless, since you use up 2 even more precious skill slots for buffs/debuffs). I can't kill people as fast as I could before, which is fine by me, since Stamblade's damage was well over the top. The added survivability is really nice. Power Extraction is also a great option for BGs or for using instead of Killer's Blade to secure the kill against roll dodgers.

Frankly, its not nearly as bad as some people in this thread make it out to be. You just can't expect to run the same build as before and be just as effective. You gotta adapt.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Minno wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SA could have been stealth changed. Which is good too, because 5% armor debuff is really strong lol.

I'm not saying anything bad on NB and like others have said, "adapt", but 5% armor debuff is not strong at all. They should of just went with minor fracture.

that also depends how it interacts with mace. Does it stack additive to mace? If not, against a 26000 target, its about 1036 armor removed after major fracture. And with 4k from CP, that's a total of 10k penetration without a mace. Sounds normal if you slot major fracture.

With mace, if both are percentage armor debuffs, do they stack? if they stack:
- 25% instead of 20% off maul
- off a 26000 target, 5180 with major fracture and maul. Total of 14460 with 4k CP

If doesnt stack with maul, and separate, where does it happen on the equation? Can you assume it happens after maul?:
- 26000 target is hit with major fracture, then 20% maul of that is 4144 armor reduced and 5% of that is 828 reduced (14252).

If you dont slot fracture:
- 26000 target, if maul/SA stack, 6500 then add 4000k pen = 10500

Either way, 14k armor pen total is only 1k less than a mag build running ele drain, except you only have to swap to a maul and slot a NB skill. Most stam builds have to slot spriggans+sharp and still are under without CP. 10k possible without fracture and 10k possible with fracture + SA. 14k possible with fracture.

Sounds really good to me.

I cannot math, so I will just take your word for it lol. You win.

ChefZero

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

at this point - stam are all running around with snb, using heroic and reverb. building ult, and bursting with dawnbreaker. the homogenized meta incarnate.

This or the new bleed builds.

New? What did I miss?

Buffs to blood craze heal, cleave damage, snare immunity on blur (means you can go for rally), increased dot damage on shadow pet, another ot if you use dawnbreaker instead of incap (or you just use incap for the +20% dmg), yada yada

nsmurfer

susmitds wrote: »

Taken from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475884/stamnb-doomsday-spreading-needs-to-stop-both-pve-pvp-every-stamnb-playstyle-is-still-viable#latest

Tell me stamblade has no damag

Nevasca

If you play it a like DK, it's really *** strong, I'd argue they are much better at being a StamDK than a StamDK.

Double Take (reworked morph) means you can drop FM to Rally, so you got a huge buff in healing power. Not only you got tankier with the extra 15% mitigation, but you also have more healing power. This means you're really hard to kill even outnumbered, and you can also use Cloak to gain LoS.

Damage is weaker, yes, but still really strong. I guess you can't get free kills on newbies with Incap+any skill, you actually have to work around your bow procs like a Magblade to kill experienced players, but you always had to do that on heavyblade anyways...

I feel like it's more a change of playstyle (for most players) than nerfs, and the "new" playstyle is just a lot stronger than before.

Ragnaroek93

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

At least you could punish this "easy to play" med armor Nb playstyle for mistakes pretty harshly and at least it had plenty of counters. None of that can be said about brawler Nbs (or heavy stamina s&b builds in general if we are honest) who have no counters and are almost impossible to take down for classes who don't have access to defile. Well, have fun on your "hard to play" heavy build...

Might surprise you but not every Nb in medium armor is a ganker btw.

evoniee

that togard post is invalid, as he cant kill any good player even with his meta build, and he aware of it

Thogard

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

At least you could punish this "easy to play" med armor Nb playstyle for mistakes pretty harshly and at least it had plenty of counters. None of that can be said about brawler Nbs (or heavy stamina s&b builds in general if we are honest) who have no counters and are almost impossible to take down for classes who don't have access to defile. Well, have fun on your "hard to play" heavy build...

Might surprise you but not every Nb in medium armor is a ganker btw.

I think you misunderstood my point. I’m not saying the build I’m on is hard to play - it isn’t - but stamblade is now able to fight well in outnumbered situations and be relevant in organized PvP / GvG / High MMR BGs, where previously it wasn’t. Removing its ability to one shot newbies is a fair tradeoff for that.

evoniee wrote: »

that togard post is invalid, as he cant kill any good player even with his meta build, and he aware of it

I’ve been doing it for all of four days and afaik I was the first (and still only?) streamer to play HA no cloak NB this patch cycle (wadeybear was definitely an inspiration for me but he’s been MIA for a while now.)

If being the first one to start doing something this patch and being the first one to stream doing it this patch makes “my” (fury/7th/bs lol) build the “meta” then I must be more popular than I realized. Maybe some EU folks are doing it? Idk.

Anyway I don’t know who you are but if you’d like to duel you’re welcome to come fight me. It’s not stamblade that is having trouble killing people - it’s everything this patch due to the befoul nerf and overall increase in survivability. I’m still working on getting used to the playstyle but so far it’s been a blast.

grannas211

the thing about NBs is, the bad ones are really bad and the good ones are really good. Most people fall into the bad ones category. Stamblade is still legit the best open world class. Quit trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

edit: is that you mersi

MaxJrFTW

mursie wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m maining stamblade this patch. The class is finally viable for real pvp rather than the PvP beginner style most stamblades used where they try to burst someone down before their opponent is aware a fight has started, and then run away as soon as their opponent starts fighting back.

It was an easy play style but fundamentally ineffective in outnumbered or other challenging PvP situations, and while I enjoyed memeing around on it and streaming myself playing this playstyle using only one hand, the fact is that stamblade is now one of the best, if not the best, Stam 1vX specd classes and I have been having a blast using my stamblade for actual PvP rather than for memes.

For the people that are still new to the game and who were using the “attack afk people and then run” playstyle, might i suggest an hp stacking mag DK that uses chains from inside a zerg? That seems just as beginner friendly and would require just as few buttons and just as little prior experience.

Edited to be more constructive

you are a real hero - i saw some of your content. it is never an easy thing killing people with a pocket healer in your group. truly commendable.

stamblade stealth burst was THE defining characteristic and whole point of the class. see the first passive in their class line called aptly enough "ASSASSINATION" for more clarity on that subject.

this snb brawler crap is just that. homogenizing the classes to one spec one outcome.

can you now play the nb as a snb brawler wearing 5 pc heavy armor for a 13 second uptime on ward with great mitigation due to change in relentless? sure.

is it a rogue assassin the way it was intended to be via the name of the class, the name of the abilities (surprise attack anyone) and the name of the class line and passives... as well as the bonuses of those passives? no.

did we really need to change NB to function more like a DK for pvp? can't we have diversity in playstyles?

at this point - stam are all running around with snb, using heroic and reverb. building ult, and bursting with dawnbreaker. the homogenized meta incarnate.

congratulations i guess. congratulations-

signed - a nb that enjoyed navigating tricky aoe infested terrains within bg's, looking for opportunities to surprise attack from stealth into a bursty incap/spectral bow combo. utilizing shade and cloak to kite where the typical brawler defenses lacked due to the rogue squishy nature of the class. now relegated to a snb brawler with dark cloak, using relentless to further mitigate dmg, setting up d-swings with heroic slash and executing with reverse slice / onslaught - otherwise known as - insert stam toon here.

Exactly. If you want to brawl, play any other stam class. I can't speak for ESO, but i played WoW for a very long time, and class homogenization was one of the things that contributed to the downfall of the game. It's why people are so excited about a clunky, ugly, slow, overall outdated 15 year old version of the game.

master_vanargand

Minno wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SA could have been stealth changed. Which is good too, because 5% armor debuff is really strong lol.

I'm not saying anything bad on NB and like others have said, "adapt", but 5% armor debuff is not strong at all. They should of just went with minor fracture.

that also depends how it interacts with mace. Does it stack additive to mace? If not, against a 26000 target, its about 1036 armor removed after major fracture. And with 4k from CP, that's a total of 10k penetration without a mace. Sounds normal if you slot major fracture.

With mace, if both are percentage armor debuffs, do they stack? if they stack:
- 25% instead of 20% off maul
- off a 26000 target, 5180 with major fracture and maul. Total of 14460 with 4k CP

If doesnt stack with maul, and separate, where does it happen on the equation? Can you assume it happens after maul?:
- 26000 target is hit with major fracture, then 20% maul of that is 4144 armor reduced and 5% of that is 828 reduced (14252).

If you dont slot fracture:
- 26000 target, if maul/SA stack, 6500 then add 4000k pen = 10500

Either way, 14k armor pen total is only 1k less than a mag build running ele drain, except you only have to swap to a maul and slot a NB skill. Most stam builds have to slot spriggans+sharp and still are under without CP. 10k possible without fracture and 10k possible with fracture + SA. 14k possible with fracture.

Sounds really good to me.

Surprise Attack 5% and Mace 10% / 20% are calculated last.
The calculation example is described below.

Enemy: 18200-Major Fracture: 5280-CP Piercing: 3740 = 9180
If you calculate Surprise Attack 5% from 9180, it will be -459 for a total of 8721.

459/662 = 0.6933534743202417%

This is a very small value.
This is the reason why Mace is not used.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

master_vanargand wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SA could have been stealth changed. Which is good too, because 5% armor debuff is really strong lol.

I'm not saying anything bad on NB and like others have said, "adapt", but 5% armor debuff is not strong at all. They should of just went with minor fracture.

that also depends how it interacts with mace. Does it stack additive to mace? If not, against a 26000 target, its about 1036 armor removed after major fracture. And with 4k from CP, that's a total of 10k penetration without a mace. Sounds normal if you slot major fracture.

With mace, if both are percentage armor debuffs, do they stack? if they stack:
- 25% instead of 20% off maul
- off a 26000 target, 5180 with major fracture and maul. Total of 14460 with 4k CP

If doesnt stack with maul, and separate, where does it happen on the equation? Can you assume it happens after maul?:
- 26000 target is hit with major fracture, then 20% maul of that is 4144 armor reduced and 5% of that is 828 reduced (14252).

If you dont slot fracture:
- 26000 target, if maul/SA stack, 6500 then add 4000k pen = 10500

Either way, 14k armor pen total is only 1k less than a mag build running ele drain, except you only have to swap to a maul and slot a NB skill. Most stam builds have to slot spriggans+sharp and still are under without CP. 10k possible without fracture and 10k possible with fracture + SA. 14k possible with fracture.

Sounds really good to me.

Surprise Attack 5% and Mace 10% / 20% are calculated last.
The calculation example is described below.

Enemy: 18200-Major Fracture: 5280-CP Piercing: 3740 = 9180
If you calculate Surprise Attack 5% from 9180, it will be -459 for a total of 8721.

459/662 = 0.6933534743202417%

This is a very small value.
This is the reason why Mace is not used.

Sure, maybe at medium armor values without protective or any other defensive sets. But considering how many people in PvP are sitting around 30k resists a maul/mace is 100% way to go over sword or axe (unless you’re using a bleed build), and daggers aren’t worth anything in CP enabled campaigns 9/10 times. Even if they are at a lower resist I find it isn’t until light armor resists does mail/mace not really outshine the other choices.

ChefZero

master_vanargand wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SA could have been stealth changed. Which is good too, because 5% armor debuff is really strong lol.

I'm not saying anything bad on NB and like others have said, "adapt", but 5% armor debuff is not strong at all. They should of just went with minor fracture.

that also depends how it interacts with mace. Does it stack additive to mace? If not, against a 26000 target, its about 1036 armor removed after major fracture. And with 4k from CP, that's a total of 10k penetration without a mace. Sounds normal if you slot major fracture.

With mace, if both are percentage armor debuffs, do they stack? if they stack:
- 25% instead of 20% off maul
- off a 26000 target, 5180 with major fracture and maul. Total of 14460 with 4k CP

If doesnt stack with maul, and separate, where does it happen on the equation? Can you assume it happens after maul?:
- 26000 target is hit with major fracture, then 20% maul of that is 4144 armor reduced and 5% of that is 828 reduced (14252).

If you dont slot fracture:
- 26000 target, if maul/SA stack, 6500 then add 4000k pen = 10500

Either way, 14k armor pen total is only 1k less than a mag build running ele drain, except you only have to swap to a maul and slot a NB skill. Most stam builds have to slot spriggans+sharp and still are under without CP. 10k possible without fracture and 10k possible with fracture + SA. 14k possible with fracture.

Sounds really good to me.

Surprise Attack 5% and Mace 10% / 20% are calculated last.
The calculation example is described below.

Enemy: 18200-Major Fracture: 5280-CP Piercing: 3740 = 9180
If you calculate Surprise Attack 5% from 9180, it will be -459 for a total of 8721.

459/662 = 0.6933534743202417%

This is a very small value.
This is the reason why Mace is not used.

Assuming to face an enemy with 18k ress fullbuffed is wrong. And if you face an enemy like that your weapon choice doesn't matter anymore. Trust me