5.0.3 Race Against Time -- go back to 4 sec immunity

Vapirko

Vig0rz wrote: »

So many skills in the game apply snares, but for some reason there's only a handful of skills that give snare immunity. Make RAT 4 seconds of snare immunity again and make shuffle .75 seconds per a piece of medium armor. That way shuffle wouldn't be 100% BIS over RAT and each would have their moments to shine.

Shuffle could never be BiS over RAT because it's only usable in medium armor. And RAT won't really be viable in medium in open world or BGs unless you can bar space to also run blade cloak/quick cloak.

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

I agree on minor force removal. Instead of sprint cost reduction they should add major sorcery.
and back to 4s. Keep the cost increase but increase the speed to be 1 or 2 seconds away from warden buff duration.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Here's the fix to stop RAT from being abused by heavy armor stam builds.

Just keep the skill with minor force and 4 seconds of immunity. It sounds overloaded but in reality I dont think it is. Putting major sorcery on it would, imo, make it too easy to slot too many skills on magicka builds. My magicka DK would be able to add WoE or Cinder Storm to its already strong kit. Minor force is good because it adds a bit of extra burst damage but still requires you to find space for major brutality/sorcery. Also this skill is really helping my stamina templar rn and we need some help.

Minno

susmitds wrote: »

I don't agree with taking away Minor Force though. 10% crit damage is equivalent to almost three impen pieces ignored. It can add significant burst into the offensive combos.

Yea but think of who will abuse that type of DMG. Heavy armor Stam builds, particularly stamblade.

I'd gladly take that DMG nerf on magplar if it means magblade/magplar have access to self buff major sorcery.

Sanguinor2

Fun fact: Nightblades will have a magicka Shuffle with close to double the Duration in snare immunity and Major Evasion. Shuffle still doesnt get buffed even tho it is restricted to medium armor unlike the changed double take which can be used for any armor type and is stronger while also offering Access to class passives.

Minno

Vapirko wrote: »

Vig0rz wrote: »

So many skills in the game apply snares, but for some reason there's only a handful of skills that give snare immunity. Make RAT 4 seconds of snare immunity again and make shuffle .75 seconds per a piece of medium armor. That way shuffle wouldn't be 100% BIS over RAT and each would have their moments to shine.

Shuffle could never be BiS over RAT because it's only usable in medium armor. And RAT won't really be viable in medium in open world or BGs unless you can bar space to also run blade cloak/quick cloak.

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

I agree on minor force removal. Instead of sprint cost reduction they should add major sorcery.
and back to 4s. Keep the cost increase but increase the speed to be 1 or 2 seconds away from warden buff duration.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Here's the fix to stop RAT from being abused by heavy armor stam builds.

Just keep the skill with minor force and 4 seconds of immunity. It sounds overloaded but in reality I dont think it is. Putting major sorcery on it would, imo, make it too easy to slot too many skills on magicka builds. My magicka DK would be able to add WoE or Cinder Storm to its already strong kit. Minor force is good because it adds a bit of extra burst damage but still requires you to find space for major brutality/sorcery. Also this skill is really helping my stamina templar rn and we need some help.

It really depends if ZoS considers it overloaded. Be ready to make concessions to keep it from being overnerfed by zerglings pushing terrible feedback.

Vapirko

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

I agree on minor force removal. Instead of sprint cost reduction they should add major sorcery.
and back to 4s. Keep the cost increase but increase the speed to be 1 or 2 seconds away from warden buff duration.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Here's the fix to stop RAT from being abused by heavy armor stam builds.

Just keep the skill with minor force and 4 seconds of immunity. It sounds overloaded but in reality I dont think it is. Putting major sorcery on it would, imo, make it too easy to slot too many skills on magicka builds. My magicka DK would be able to add WoE or Cinder Storm to its already strong kit. Minor force is good because it adds a bit of extra burst damage but still requires you to find space for major brutality/sorcery. Also this skill is really helping my stamina templar rn and we need some help.

Minno wrote: »

It really depends if ZoS considers it overloaded. Be ready to make concessions to keep it from being overnerfed by zerglings pushing terrible feedback.

Honestly I dont think it had anything to do with it being overloaded. It was just their "clever" way of making shuffle seem not so horribly inadequate.

Minno

Vapirko wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

I agree on minor force removal. Instead of sprint cost reduction they should add major sorcery.
and back to 4s. Keep the cost increase but increase the speed to be 1 or 2 seconds away from warden buff duration.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Here's the fix to stop RAT from being abused by heavy armor stam builds.

Just keep the skill with minor force and 4 seconds of immunity. It sounds overloaded but in reality I dont think it is. Putting major sorcery on it would, imo, make it too easy to slot too many skills on magicka builds. My magicka DK would be able to add WoE or Cinder Storm to its already strong kit. Minor force is good because it adds a bit of extra burst damage but still requires you to find space for major brutality/sorcery. Also this skill is really helping my stamina templar rn and we need some help.

Minno wrote: »

It really depends if ZoS considers it overloaded. Be ready to make concessions to keep it from being overnerfed by zerglings pushing terrible feedback.

Honestly I dont think it had anything to do with it being overloaded. It was just their "clever" way of making shuffle seem not so horribly inadequate.

I think they feel they took a similar overbuff approach and applied it to certain skills. Then ran an audit for "consistency", and waited for backlash. We are seeing the zergling agenda pushing for the snare meta back and in turn ZoS making a backlash adjustment to compensate.

Problem with that is, that's not balance, that placating your base to accept utter garbage. But this opens the door for discussion; if they feel 4s of immunity is too much, can we get a better value buff attached that isn't so polarizing? My vote is on either:
- add major sorcery
- give back Sprint cost reduction
- drop minor force and give higher snare immunity+higher Sprint speed duration without cost reduction.

You can get more creative and start saying "well of this is to match existing immunities, how come it doesn't have a defense buff?". With that in mind id gladly trade 2s of immunity if I get 3 traits worth of impen attached. Or maybe just a small percentage mitigation instead.

But my vote is still on that major sorcery over force. Sorry pve you are taking one for the team here.

Stx

RAT at 4 seconds immunity plus major exp was insanely OP. Every build in the game would slot it including stamina, because no other freedom skill also comes with speed boost. It deserved a nerf. It will still be very useful at 2 seconds and may still be used by majority of builds.

Rikumaru

Stx wrote: »

RAT at 4 seconds immunity plus major exp was insanely OP. Every build in the game would slot it including stamina, because no other freedom skill also comes with speed boost. It deserved a nerf. It will still be very useful at 2 seconds and may still be used by majority of builds.

Sure they don't come with a speed boost, instead they come with MASSIVE buffs. So lets see, forward momentum has 4s immunity like old RAT and also came with a decent HoT and major brutality. This is comparable with major expedition + snare immunity for 4s + minor force for 12s.

Double take has major evasion and a 4s snare immunity. This skill is basically buffed shuffle and is absolutely comparable if not stronger than RAT.

The only skills which were inferior was wings and shuffle, which should have been buffed up not nerfed. I guess the snare meta will still remain and magicka builds outside of magicka sorc will continue to be inferior to stamina builds in solo open world PvP due to a lack of mobility.

Vapirko

Minno wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

I agree on minor force removal. Instead of sprint cost reduction they should add major sorcery.
and back to 4s. Keep the cost increase but increase the speed to be 1 or 2 seconds away from warden buff duration.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Here's the fix to stop RAT from being abused by heavy armor stam builds.

Just keep the skill with minor force and 4 seconds of immunity. It sounds overloaded but in reality I dont think it is. Putting major sorcery on it would, imo, make it too easy to slot too many skills on magicka builds. My magicka DK would be able to add WoE or Cinder Storm to its already strong kit. Minor force is good because it adds a bit of extra burst damage but still requires you to find space for major brutality/sorcery. Also this skill is really helping my stamina templar rn and we need some help.

Minno wrote: »

It really depends if ZoS considers it overloaded. Be ready to make concessions to keep it from being overnerfed by zerglings pushing terrible feedback.

Honestly I dont think it had anything to do with it being overloaded. It was just their "clever" way of making shuffle seem not so horribly inadequate.

I think they feel they took a similar overbuff approach and applied it to certain skills. Then ran an audit for "consistency", and waited for backlash. We are seeing the zergling agenda pushing for the snare meta back and in turn ZoS making a backlash adjustment to compensate.

Problem with that is, that's not balance, that placating your base to accept utter garbage. But this opens the door for discussion; if they feel 4s of immunity is too much, can we get a better value buff attached that isn't so polarizing? My vote is on either:
- add major sorcery
- give back Sprint cost reduction
- drop minor force and give higher snare immunity+higher Sprint speed duration without cost reduction.

You can get more creative and start saying "well of this is to match existing immunities, how come it doesn't have a defense buff?". With that in mind id gladly trade 2s of immunity if I get 3 traits worth of impen attached. Or maybe just a small percentage mitigation instead.

But my vote is still on that major sorcery over force. Sorry pve you are taking one for the team here.

Agree with all of that. The reason I’m against trading force for sorcery is purely from a selfish Stamplar POV. Medium is pretty garbage and Stamplars can’t survive well with just vigor and FM. So having that ability to use rally and RAT in heavy is a class saver, though I realize that other stronger classes like stamina warden could abuse it a bit.

BaylorCorvette

Vapirko wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Think the only reason for the change is medium armour wearers complained RAT was longer then shuffle. Maybe concerned ranged magicka kiting would be too powerful, I’m not sure.

Just ask for .5 seconds less then shuffle and it’d probably be okay, not like .5 seconds makes a difference.

I think it’s 2 seconds now?

Dont *** blame this on medium armor users lol. Medium armor has long been deserving a buff and we all just asked shuffle to be brought in line with RAT and FM which it very well should be. I specifically said DO NOT nerf RAT please just raise shuffle to 4 seconds. This is just ZOS' really terrible attempt to make medium relevant still.

Yeah I think everyone would be happier if Shuffle was buffed UP to FM and the previous RAT.

React

RAT needs to be 4s of immunity. The skill was intended as a new snare immunity, and has been nerfed so it is non functional as such. Comparisons to other (stronger) snare immunity abilities aside, if ZOS felt the need to remove an effect it should have been a force.

Ajax_22

Four seconds should be the baseline for immunity. Two seconds just doesn't have a big enough impact. If some skills are over/underperforming tweak the additional effects, and costs.

Stx

Rikumaru wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

RAT at 4 seconds immunity plus major exp was insanely OP. Every build in the game would slot it including stamina, because no other freedom skill also comes with speed boost. It deserved a nerf. It will still be very useful at 2 seconds and may still be used by majority of builds.

Sure they don't come with a speed boost, instead they come with MASSIVE buffs. So lets see, forward momentum has 4s immunity like old RAT and also came with a decent HoT and major brutality. This is comparable with major expedition + snare immunity for 4s + minor force for 12s.

Double take has major evasion and a 4s snare immunity. This skill is basically buffed shuffle and is absolutely comparable if not stronger than RAT.

The only skills which were inferior was wings and shuffle, which should have been buffed up not nerfed. I guess the snare meta will still remain and magicka builds outside of magicka sorc will continue to be inferior to stamina builds in solo open world PvP due to a lack of mobility.

None of those other buffs matter. The specific combination of major exp plus snare immunity is too strong, and is what makes RAT too good. If it was 4 seconds every build in the game would have to slot it, at 2 seconds a lot still will.

Iskiab

I’m on the fence, I mean I was going to try speed x3 jewellery, steed mundus and RAT to kite melee indefinitely. Maybe after some testing they figured it was too powerful.

I do think RAT definitely needs to stay and shouldn’t be nerfed any further. I never considered that stam classes with less self healing can slot rally and RAT for better healing.

This skill is definitely needed, for Templars especially. I hate it when I see team mates use mist form and Templars are a bit weak in pvp. This skill will have a double effect; help magicka classes with a cc break and stamina classes with weaker self healing by choosing rally, both will be good for pvp.

HankTwo

Stx wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

RAT at 4 seconds immunity plus major exp was insanely OP. Every build in the game would slot it including stamina, because no other freedom skill also comes with speed boost. It deserved a nerf. It will still be very useful at 2 seconds and may still be used by majority of builds.

Sure they don't come with a speed boost, instead they come with MASSIVE buffs. So lets see, forward momentum has 4s immunity like old RAT and also came with a decent HoT and major brutality. This is comparable with major expedition + snare immunity for 4s + minor force for 12s.

Double take has major evasion and a 4s snare immunity. This skill is basically buffed shuffle and is absolutely comparable if not stronger than RAT.

The only skills which were inferior was wings and shuffle, which should have been buffed up not nerfed. I guess the snare meta will still remain and magicka builds outside of magicka sorc will continue to be inferior to stamina builds in solo open world PvP due to a lack of mobility.

None of those other buffs matter. The specific combination of major exp plus snare immunity is too strong, and is what makes RAT too good. If it was 4 seconds every build in the game would have to slot it, at 2 seconds a lot still will.

This! RAT can have 4 seconds of snare and root immunity the moment it loses major expedition. Since that's most likely not going to happen, 2 seconds sounds like a fair compromise. The skill will be still very strong.

Don't forget that many snares will be nerfed or flat out removed next patch and that removing an immobilization will grant a 3 seconds immunity that's independent of any skills used. These are good changes that will make snares/roots overall less oppressive (imo, some snares still need nerfs, but its definitely a step in the right direction).

Zer0oo

LONG LIVE THE SNARE META

Feanor

4s is a problem because it makes running Rally with HA such a no-brainer. The Minor Force on top is just icing on the cake.

Also MA doesn’t get better by nerfing other skills because the weaknesses of the Armour weight still remain.

Joy_Division

I don't think 2 seconds is long enough.

I do think the original PTS change was a bit too good though.

I think somewhere in-between is ideal.

JackAshes

Yeah,
3 sec Snare immunity
3 sec Major expedition
12 sec Minor Force
Feels about right for the skill hopefully they will adjust before it goes live.

Adenoma

@ZOS_BrianWheeler , the fundamental complaint folks have in pvp is mobility-based. Roots and snares are ever-present and somewhat of a necessary evil. That said, we need adequate sources of immunity that empower play at solo, small group, and large scale levels.

Paying for immunity to snares/roots SHOULD be a significant investment of resources, but it SHOULD have a significant return. These investments and returns should be balanced for both pvp and pve. My understanding is that RAT is not the PvE skill because of rearming trap and channeled acceleration being superior sources of minor force given their longer duration or easy off-resource (or dps and on-resource for stam) management for magicka builds.

Frankly, 2s is too short of a duration for a significant investment of resources. 4s is a great return and still requires significant investment of magicka to maintain constant uptime - something that isn’t super doable for stamina builds, especially in medium armor.

RAT is an overloaded skill in its previous PTS iteration, but nerfing the mobility aspect isn’t the solution. Removal of minor force or elimination of the major expedition are the most logical next steps. Moving at 40% extra speed or having 10% extra crit damage are less tangible improvements to gameplay to just being able to move unimpeded. Removing minor force or minor expedition while maintaining 4s of immunity (and possibly modifying cost to increase magicka drain for balance’s sake) are tangible, positive changes that will not negatively impact the PvE community.

I think it’s also important to tone down RAT relative to medium armor mobility. The low uptime of immunity granted by shuffle is a major pain point vocalized by MA players and it’s still silly that medium armor can’t maintain the same immunity that heavy armor users can keep using forward momentum. Additionally, wings for DKs should get 4s of immunity - if NBs get 4s and major evasion through double take, then wings is certainly not overloaded by comparison. The simplest option is RAT, forward momentum, wings, and double take at 4s of immunity, then put shuffle at 1s per piece or 5-6s total.

Tagging @ZOS_Gilliam because I hope you have some oomph for balance changes too (and that you had nothing to do with the incap changes).

Insco851

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

The best fix is cc immunity plus expedition, minor force is just a bonus. For overall balance shuffle should have the longest cc immunity considering someone has to wear medium.

I’ll still use RAT anyways, maybe they’ll look at it again when they go through weapon abilities.

You’re nuts if you don’t use a cc break in pvp if you have one available, some of you guys are being melodramatic. I don’t know why anyone would use mistform over rat even with the reduced immunity.

I think there’s a misconception that medium is somehow weak... medium means you dodge roll... a lot. So much so that if you give medium excessive CC immunity, they become extremely hard to tie down and properly burst. Imagine a stamblade with 4 second shuffle... no thanks. If they want 4 seconds, they give up a burst heal, balance.

But hey that new double take is gonna end up 4 seconds so wtf am I even talking about. Dear stamblades, keep running shuffle pls.

Barbaran

2 seconds hey, welcome to the struggle that medium armour players have faced using shuffle, with a cheaper cost

ToRelax

I don't think proper balance can ever be achieved without shifting the focus to snare resistance instead of immunity. It's just too polarizing.

In the meantime, I'd just like race against time to be BiS because lightning form looks terrible.

brandonv516

Race Against Time:
This ability no longer becomes cheaper as it ranks up.
Reduced the Snare and Immobilization immunity to 1 second from 4 seconds.
The immunity’s duration now increases as the ability ranks up, up to a maximum of 2 seconds.

I don't like this overkill mentality of changing things.

It's going to be more expensive and the immunity is for a less amount of time (meaning you will need to cast it more). Those changes together are pitiful and make it very unattractive.

And what the hell does the last part mean? The immunity can rank up to 2s but what happens at the other ranks?

Rank 1: Already 1s
Rank 2: Now 2s
Rank 3: Nothing happens
Rank 4: Nothing happens

Am I missing something?

Iskiab

Insco851 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

The best fix is cc immunity plus expedition, minor force is just a bonus. For overall balance shuffle should have the longest cc immunity considering someone has to wear medium.

I’ll still use RAT anyways, maybe they’ll look at it again when they go through weapon abilities.

You’re nuts if you don’t use a cc break in pvp if you have one available, some of you guys are being melodramatic. I don’t know why anyone would use mistform over rat even with the reduced immunity.

I think there’s a misconception that medium is somehow weak... medium means you dodge roll... a lot. So much so that if you give medium excessive CC immunity, they become extremely hard to tie down and properly burst. Imagine a stamblade with 4 second shuffle... no thanks. If they want 4 seconds, they give up a burst heal, balance.

But hey that new double take is gonna end up 4 seconds so wtf am I even talking about. Dear stamblades, keep running shuffle pls.

I think the actual issue is dodge rolling. I play only non-CP so don’t see dodge rollers and wouldn’t think they’d do well without the dodge rolling cost reduction CPs.

I think Stamblades must be a CP issue tbh. In no-CP, where I play, they’re considered weak.

Maybe playing a magblade gives me insight into the class too, IDK. I can generally tell where they’ve gone when they cloak and would say 1 or 2 in 10 is able to get away without using detect abilities.

Back to the OP: 3 seconds sounds perfect!

grannas211

brandonv516 wrote: »

Race Against Time:
This ability no longer becomes cheaper as it ranks up.
Reduced the Snare and Immobilization immunity to 1 second from 4 seconds.
The immunity’s duration now increases as the ability ranks up, up to a maximum of 2 seconds.

I don't like this overkill mentality of changing things.

It's going to be more expensive and the immunity is for a less amount of time (meaning you will need to cast it more). Those changes together are pitiful and make it very unattractive.

And what the hell does the last part mean? The immunity can rank up to 2s but what happens at the other ranks?

Rank 1: Already 1s
Rank 2: Now 2s
Rank 3: Nothing happens
Rank 4: Nothing happens

Am I missing something?

probably just a cost decrease? Or nothing. The latter sounds more like zos balance team hard at work.

kollege14a5

30% Major expedition, 10% more crit damage and 4 sec immunity at that low cost? Was a bit overtuned imo.

Haashhtaag

You made a skill that would have been great for magicka characters useless as shuffle for snare immunity. Good job


@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam just blanket snare immunity to 6 seconds, make a magicka immovable/speed pot and call it a day. Don’t overthink

Rikumaru

Stx wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

RAT at 4 seconds immunity plus major exp was insanely OP. Every build in the game would slot it including stamina, because no other freedom skill also comes with speed boost. It deserved a nerf. It will still be very useful at 2 seconds and may still be used by majority of builds.

Sure they don't come with a speed boost, instead they come with MASSIVE buffs. So lets see, forward momentum has 4s immunity like old RAT and also came with a decent HoT and major brutality. This is comparable with major expedition + snare immunity for 4s + minor force for 12s.

Double take has major evasion and a 4s snare immunity. This skill is basically buffed shuffle and is absolutely comparable if not stronger than RAT.

The only skills which were inferior was wings and shuffle, which should have been buffed up not nerfed. I guess the snare meta will still remain and magicka builds outside of magicka sorc will continue to be inferior to stamina builds in solo open world PvP due to a lack of mobility.

None of those other buffs matter. The specific combination of major exp plus snare immunity is too strong, and is what makes RAT too good. If it was 4 seconds every build in the game would have to slot it, at 2 seconds a lot still will.

None of those buffs matter? Have you lost your mind? What on earth??? Major evasion literally grants 25% damage reduction to AOE's which in this patch got mega buffed into single target spammable damage. 25% damage reduction. That's almost as strong as major protection vs AOE's which has a 100% uptime. A decent HoT and major brutality doesn't matter? Yeah sure, tell that to the 99% of stam players who run 2h either front bar or back bar since 1.6.

A 4s snare immunity and major expedition isn't enough to have it up 100% of the time proactively, that's why forward momentum got nerfed from 8s to 4s. 4s is enough to use it reactively while also being able to perform some actions in between. 2s completely sucks and players are still gonna be snared out of their minds next patch, particularly magicka builds.

Insco851

Iskiab wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

The best fix is cc immunity plus expedition, minor force is just a bonus. For overall balance shuffle should have the longest cc immunity considering someone has to wear medium.

I’ll still use RAT anyways, maybe they’ll look at it again when they go through weapon abilities.

You’re nuts if you don’t use a cc break in pvp if you have one available, some of you guys are being melodramatic. I don’t know why anyone would use mistform over rat even with the reduced immunity.

I think there’s a misconception that medium is somehow weak... medium means you dodge roll... a lot. So much so that if you give medium excessive CC immunity, they become extremely hard to tie down and properly burst. Imagine a stamblade with 4 second shuffle... no thanks. If they want 4 seconds, they give up a burst heal, balance.

But hey that new double take is gonna end up 4 seconds so wtf am I even talking about. Dear stamblades, keep running shuffle pls.

I think the actual issue is dodge rolling. I play only non-CP so don’t see dodge rollers and wouldn’t think they’d do well without the dodge rolling cost reduction CPs.

I think Stamblades must be a CP issue tbh. In no-CP, where I play, they’re considered weak.

Maybe playing a magblade gives me insight into the class too, IDK. I can generally tell where they’ve gone when they cloak and would say 1 or 2 in 10 is able to get away without using detect abilities.

Back to the OP: 3 seconds sounds perfect!

3-4 well fitted, plus 20% in dodge roll cost reduction... they not even running anymore... just dodge roll spam lol. It’s a bit strong... add in long periods of time of CC Immunity and yea... good luck trapping em.

Also, one thing this thread is overlooking is the soft cc cool down that got introduced... 3 seconds cool down.. you can get 5 seconds soft cc immunity with a well timed rat or 8 seconds hard cc. —IF you are trying to use it proactively that is.