5.0.3 Race Against Time -- go back to 4 sec immunity

josh.lackey_ESO

Go back to 4 seconds of snare immunity. I don't give two flips about Minor Force. If it's overloaded, make it "instead of" Minor Force for 12s you get Snare Immunity for 4s. If you want Minor Force you can keep it unmorphed. Snare immunity without vampire/nightblade is needed for magicka. Either that or get rid of the increased fire damage for vampire, so it's viable in PvP.

Along with the Incap silence, 5.0.3 is very bad for magicka.

Iskiab

Think the only reason for the change is medium armour wearers complained RAT was longer then shuffle. Maybe concerned ranged magicka kiting would be too powerful, I’m not sure.

Just ask for .5 seconds less then shuffle and it’d probably be okay, not like .5 seconds makes a difference.

I think it’s 2 seconds now?

frostz417

I’d love to drop mistform on my magplar, guess I’ll be sticking to this trash ability and gimping myself in being a vampire 😒😒

Rikumaru

Why do they ruin something great they actually added. It's very frustrating. While shuffle sucks and reflective plate only gives 2s immunity, that doesn't mean you gut race against time, it means you buff those abilities. 1 step forwards, 2 steps back. Sigh.

josh.lackey_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

Think the only reason for the change is medium armour wearers complained RAT was longer then shuffle. Maybe concerned ranged magicka kiting would be too powerful, I’m not sure.

Just ask for .5 seconds less then shuffle and it’d probably be okay, not like .5 seconds makes a difference.

I think it’s 2 seconds now?

They should make Shuffle last 4 seconds, too. And extend the duration of Evasion for each piece of medium armor you wear. That tracks with the heavy ability which is flat 5s CC immunity + bonus duration of armor buff per piece of heavy.

josh.lackey_ESO

frostz417 wrote: »

I’d love to drop mistform on my magplar, guess I’ll be sticking to this trash ability and gimping myself in being a vampire 😒😒

I agree with you. Mist is annoying, both to use and to fight against. You are locked out of abilities unless you cancel it early, but then you also lose snare immunity, too + all the extra fire damage from vamp. It's equally annoying to fight someone who is spamming Mist.

I think Race Against Time would be a better experience for everyone. But at only 2s immunity, I would still choose Mist because of the 75% damage reduction is very situationally useful.

technohic

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

Minno

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

I agree on minor force removal. Instead of sprint cost reduction they should add major sorcery.
and back to 4s. Keep the cost increase but increase the speed to be 1 or 2 seconds away from warden buff duration.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Here's the fix to stop RAT from being abused by heavy armor stam builds.

Sandman929

Agreed, I was planning to use this with 4 second immunity, but not with 2 seconds. It doesn't have the same benefit of wings on a DK, but I also think DKs immunity should have been buffed rather than this being shortened. Snares are not fun gameplay.

fullheartcontainer

Agreed - if the ability was overloaded, the thing to remove isn't the mobility/snare immunity but the Force. NOBODY wants it for the offensive capability; please for the love of god magicka people wanted this for the mobility. Magplar NEEDED this change and now it's gone @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Also, if the change is to make it less than comparable abilities like Shuffle, it's because those comparable abilities need to be buffed. Shuffle underperforms. A few seconds of snare removal and major expedition on a medium armor self-target ability is MORE than justified considering Medium Armor's lack of identity with Heavy being the better damage sets.

Insco851

It’ll be fine. It’s gonna get magtoons outta Rip situations considering that’s also 2 seconds of major expedition as well. It doesn’t need to be a CC pot-lite.

Sandman929

Insco851 wrote: »

It’ll be fine. It’s gonna get magtoons outta Rip situations considering that’s also 2 seconds of major expedition as well. It doesn’t need to be a CC pot-lite.

I agree it doesn't need to be, but it was an attractive skill at 4 seconds and now it's back to useless.

Sandman929

Or at least I don't want to use it at 2 seconds, maybe others will

Morgul667

This change does not feel right

Insco851

Sandman929 wrote: »

Or at least I don't want to use it at 2 seconds, maybe others will

It’ll def be more build dependent now instead of a must slot skill. That’s... not a bad thing.

ecru

I was thinking I might actually start queuing for BGs again if this ability went live, but two seconds isn't nearly enough for me to play through frost blockades and rituals for 10-15 minutes at a time. No one enjoys this kind of gameplay. I don't believe there is a single person who actually likes the fact that they can be snared so easily, potentially for the entire duration of a match, besides maybe one ZOS dev who is dead set on making sure we don't actually have control over our characters the vast majority of the time.

Iskiab

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

The best fix is cc immunity plus expedition, minor force is just a bonus. For overall balance shuffle should have the longest cc immunity considering someone has to wear medium.

I’ll still use RAT anyways, maybe they’ll look at it again when they go through weapon abilities.

You’re nuts if you don’t use a cc break in pvp if you have one available, some of you guys are being melodramatic. I don’t know why anyone would use mistform over rat even with the reduced immunity.

brandonv516

Ahh it's like Curse Eater all over again. Something you look forward to and then they completely ruin it.

acw37162

You took a skill that was awesome and unique with this great reduced sprint cost feature for magica builds.

You killed that because hey it’s a good idea to make it a magica snare removal.

Then you reduce the snare removal.

Can you revert race against time to its original form and pass this mess onto the other morph and take away the cast time.

Way to completely screw with an otherwise unique fun ability

susmitds

I don't agree with taking away Minor Force though. 10% crit damage is equivalent to almost three impen pieces ignored. It can add significant burst into the offensive combos.

Ragnaroek93

Having a snare removal, major expedition and minor force on demand was overloaded. It literally screwed up the identity of all builds who did actively build around mobility.

lucky_Sage

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

What they needed was to buff shuffle duration to 1 sec per piece of medium. Or just make it a flat 5 since you're required to run 5 medium to use it anyway. And remove the minor force, leave sprint cost reduction in stead on RAT. Need magicka mobility on anything not a sorc.

I agree on minor force removal. Instead of sprint cost reduction they should add major sorcery.
and back to 4s. Keep the cost increase but increase the speed to be 1 or 2 seconds away from warden buff duration.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Here's the fix to stop RAT from being abused by heavy armor stam builds.

Yeah that would be good that would free up a skill lot for a lot of builds

NyassaV

Iskiab wrote: »

Think the only reason for the change is medium armour wearers complained RAT was longer then shuffle. Maybe concerned ranged magicka kiting would be too powerful, I’m not sure.

Just ask for .5 seconds less then shuffle and it’d probably be okay, not like .5 seconds makes a difference.

I think it’s 2 seconds now?

Buff shuffle then

JWillCHS

I'm confused.

Foward Momentum has Major Brutality which increases weapon damage for 33 seconds. You heal for X amount of health every 2 seconds while active. Also activating the ability removes all snares and immobilization from you granting immunity for 4 seconds.

But I can't have Major Expedition and CC immunity for 4 seconds plus Minor Force for 8 with Race Against Time?

susmitds

JWillCHS wrote: »

I'm confused.

Foward Momentum has Major Brutality which increases weapon damage for 33 seconds. You heal for X amount of health every 2 seconds while active. Also activating the ability removes all snares and immobilization from you granting immunity for 4 seconds.

But I can't have Major Expedition and CC immunity for 4 seconds plus Minor Force for 8 with Race Against Time?

Forward is limited to a single weapon and only for Stamina, provides a much more common buff and does not provide two effects which go hand in hand.

wheem_ESO

susmitds wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

I'm confused.

Foward Momentum has Major Brutality which increases weapon damage for 33 seconds. You heal for X amount of health every 2 seconds while active. Also activating the ability removes all snares and immobilization from you granting immunity for 4 seconds.

But I can't have Major Expedition and CC immunity for 4 seconds plus Minor Force for 8 with Race Against Time?

Forward is limited to a single weapon and only for Stamina, provides a much more common buff and does not provide two effects which go hand in hand.

I'd settle for a Magicka copy of Forward Momentum/Rally. Vastly better source of Major damage buff than the garbage that is Entropy.

Davadin

it's ok. even in live i use this in my 2h/dw Stam DK because Sprints cost reduction is good, minor force is bonus.

extra immunity is just Cherry on top, as i already got Rally, wings and immune pots.

4s could be a little overkill and put it out of balance with other skills.

JWillCHS wrote: »

I'm confused.

Foward Momentum has Major Brutality which increases weapon damage for 33 seconds. You heal for X amount of health every 2 seconds while active. Also activating the ability removes all snares and immobilization from you granting immunity for 4 seconds.

But I can't have Major Expedition and CC immunity for 4 seconds plus Minor Force for 8 with Race Against Time?

of course not. why are you confused? Read your post once more.

usmcjdking

JWillCHS wrote: »

I'm confused.

Foward Momentum has Major Brutality which increases weapon damage for 33 seconds. You heal for X amount of health every 2 seconds while active. Also activating the ability removes all snares and immobilization from you granting immunity for 4 seconds.

But I can't have Major Expedition and CC immunity for 4 seconds plus Minor Force for 8 with Race Against Time?

Stam only has one burst heal available to it - Rally. Which you cannot run in tandem with Forward Momentum. The skill needs to be stacked to the gills.

Vapirko

Iskiab wrote: »

Think the only reason for the change is medium armour wearers complained RAT was longer then shuffle. Maybe concerned ranged magicka kiting would be too powerful, I’m not sure.

Just ask for .5 seconds less then shuffle and it’d probably be okay, not like .5 seconds makes a difference.

I think it’s 2 seconds now?

Dont *** blame this on medium armor users lol. Medium armor has long been deserving a buff and we all just asked shuffle to be brought in line with RAT and FM which it very well should be. I specifically said DO NOT nerf RAT please just raise shuffle to 4 seconds. This is just ZOS' really terrible attempt to make medium relevant still.

Vig0rz

So many skills in the game apply snares, but for some reason there's only a handful of skills that give snare immunity. Make RAT 4 seconds of snare immunity again and make shuffle .75 seconds per a piece of medium armor. That way shuffle wouldn't be 100% BIS over RAT and each would have their moments to shine.

jcm2606

Davadin wrote: »

it's ok. even in live i use this in my 2h/dw Stam DK because Sprints cost reduction is good, minor force is bonus.

extra immunity is just Cherry on top, as i already got Rally, wings and immune pots.

4s could be a little overkill and put it out of balance with other skills.

JWillCHS wrote: »

I'm confused.

Foward Momentum has Major Brutality which increases weapon damage for 33 seconds. You heal for X amount of health every 2 seconds while active. Also activating the ability removes all snares and immobilization from you granting immunity for 4 seconds.

But I can't have Major Expedition and CC immunity for 4 seconds plus Minor Force for 8 with Race Against Time?

of course not. why are you confused? Read your post once more.

Not every class is stamDK. Not every class has access to a good snare removal tool. RAT allowed every other stam to get away with using Rally in medium, without having to slot Shuffle which is just an underwhelming ability. RAT gave every mag that wasn't a magDK a solid alternative to Mist Form, especially magplar.

People hate Shuffle for the low duration, people have brought it up for years now in hopes that it'll get a duration increase, and yet Zenimax guts RAT, a tool that magicka desperately needed, with 2 seconds of immunity.