No Cost Piercing Mark (Worst Idea Ever)

Mayrael

The thing is on live only magblades can afford to use piercing mark meaning when faced stamblade it's cloak vs roll dodge fight. Now since it's free magblade are fkd. Stamblades have roll dodge, rally and vigor. What magblades have? This is total ***. Magblades are already worst open world class, this is just dumbest change since shields cast time. But hey since almost nobody plays magblades anymore who cares right?

Silver_Strider

Mayrael wrote: »

The thing is on live only magblades can afford to use piercing mark meaning when faced stamblade it's cloak vs roll dodge fight. Now since it's free magblade are fkd. Stamblades have roll dodge, rally and vigor. What magblades have? This is total ***. Magblades are already worst open world class, this is just dumbest change since shields cast time. But hey since almost nobody plays magblades anymore who cares right?

I would argue Magblade was always fkd against Stamblade in a 1 on 1 even before this change but I guess its just more true now than before.

Insco851

Be sure to build your magblade tanky enough to not get insta gibbed out of cloak. It should be a utility for every spec that’s not ganking. And if you are just a ganker... you gotta be extra careful. Part of the fun in playing that way.

Royalthought

Insco851 wrote: »

Be sure to build your magblade tanky enough to not get insta gibbed out of cloak. It should be a utility for every spec that’s not ganking. And if you are just a ganker... you gotta be extra careful. Part of the fun in playing that way.

Tbh, I use sub assault/d fissure, spin2win (sometimes), curse, potl, ballista, etc. They all break cloak but also kill nbs.

With all these things around, why worry about the one thing that does no damage?

Its more concerning that, thats all mark does in comparison. Even ele drain gives magick back.

Insco851

Royalthought wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Be sure to build your magblade tanky enough to not get insta gibbed out of cloak. It should be a utility for every spec that’s not ganking. And if you are just a ganker... you gotta be extra careful. Part of the fun in playing that way.

Tbh, I use sub assault/d fissure, spin2win (sometimes), curse, potl, ballista, etc. They all break cloak but also kill nbs.

With all these things around, why worry about the one thing that does no damage?

Its more concerning that, thats all mark does in comparison. Even ele drain gives magick back.

There’s so many counters... this isn’t gonna change anything. QQing for nothing.

Iskiab

I don’t duel much but the 4 seconds of reveal doesn’t seem like it’d do much. Like piercing mark - 1GCD available to hit you - you dodge roll and go into stealth.

I guess it’s an issue for people who are so glass canon it only takes 1 GCD to kill you, because any stun means you’re dead.

It’s still more likely people will hit sap or whatever the stamina’s version is to reveal you.

ArchMikem

Galarthor wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

And people will still cry about cloak. Mark my words.

That's b/c not everybody is a Nightblade and thus does not have a real counter against cloak.

It is ironic, that the class that relies on cloak is also the only class that has a counter to cloak. And NBs religiously refuse to use it as to not to reveal a fellow nightblade!

I main a Stamblade and i always used Mark. I was specifically my group's Anti-Ganker Nightblade.

Mayrael

Iskiab wrote: »

I don’t duel much but the 4 seconds of reveal doesn’t seem like it’d do much. Like piercing mark - 1GCD available to hit you - you dodge roll and go into stealth.

I guess it’s an issue for people who are so glass canon it only takes 1 GCD to kill you, because any stun means you’re dead.

It’s still more likely people will hit sap or whatever the stamina’s version is to reveal you.

Yeah since we have curse, soul assault and other stuff ignoring dodge roll etc. can I have no cost skill to disable roll dodge, it doesn't seem to do much?

Victor_Blade

What if sorc shields and templar heals get disrupted or something when an enemy drops an aoe damage on them? Swallow soul had a passive buff that increases the cost of dodge rolling by x% on enemies hit? A sorc can't streak while he is on uneven grounds? Twilight matriarch gets nerfed so it can either do damage or just heal. Pets get disabled in pvp or they can't get targeted?

If zos nerfs all of these, I'll accept the nerfs to cloak, mark. Won't talk about shade cos it's buggy and almost never works.

Insco851

Victor_Blade wrote: »

What if sorc shields and templar heals get disrupted or something when an enemy drops an aoe damage on them? Swallow soul had a passive buff that increases the cost of dodge rolling by x% on enemies hit? A sorc can't streak while he is on uneven grounds? Twilight matriarch gets nerfed so it can either do damage or just heal. Pets get disabled in pvp or they can't get targeted?

If zos nerfs all of these, I'll accept the nerfs to cloak, mark. Won't talk about shade cos it's buggy and almost never works.

Cmon man, you know you wanna recast the shade on top of you when you were actually trying to teleport to it.....

Victor_Blade

Insco851 wrote: »

Victor_Blade wrote: »

What if sorc shields and templar heals get disrupted or something when an enemy drops an aoe damage on them? Swallow soul had a passive buff that increases the cost of dodge rolling by x% on enemies hit? A sorc can't streak while he is on uneven grounds? Twilight matriarch gets nerfed so it can either do damage or just heal. Pets get disabled in pvp or they can't get targeted?

If zos nerfs all of these, I'll accept the nerfs to cloak, mark. Won't talk about shade cos it's buggy and almost never works.

Cmon man, you know you wanna recast the shade on top of you when you were actually trying to teleport to it.....

Woof! Or maybe wanna do a failed magic trick when you're being chased by a ball group.

susmitds

As a soloer I wonder what ability to drop for Mark.

Insco851

susmitds wrote: »

As a soloer I wonder what ability to drop for Mark.

Magblade? Ele drain. - if you have sustain issues switch cripple to debilitate. All is well

gepe87

Slot purge! It can be helpful.

Blinkin8r

Still a useless skill that no one will want to slot unless they're a zergling. The hype will die down as it always does.

Mayrael

Blinkin8r wrote: »

Still a useless skill that no one will want to slot unless they're a zergling. The hype will die down as it always does.

I was there when reveal lasted 30s. Most of the time it looked like this.
1. I kill stamblade.
2. He comes back with Shield Breaker. Still dies.
3. He comes back with Shield breaker and piercing mark. I have to retreat.

Ofc good stamblades didn't need that sheit but since stamblade is the most popular class in the PvP, there is a lot of trash players there to. This change is absolutely unfair. There is no other skill that can permanently disable someone's else defensive tool completely for free.

No fix for shadow image. No fix for Undo. Healing ward nerfed. Now stamblades get free to use tool to troll magblades - let's make that when you have reveal from piercing mark on you, your roll dodge cost is lowered to 1/5 and I can fight them all day long.

josh.lackey_ESO

99% of the time it's only used to troll people. At least make the range a normal 28m.

universal_wrath

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

And people will still cry about cloak. Mark my words.

Because it's stamblade who makes the biggest use of that ability and for stamblade 5 second detection is not an issue he can just roll away then teleport to shade and then use cloak without invisibility debuff.

just like all the other classes we need defense and in the case of nightblade our defense is stealth, invisibility.
sorc is shields
templar is heals
please stop trying to Destroy our invisibility.

Problem is other classes defenses when they work doesnt grant 100% evasion from attacks and negative effects without any drawbacks. Sorc is shielding damage he recives , templar is healing damage he recives nightblade in cloak just dont recive any damage while still being able to heal , having adventage of engaging and disengaging from combat on demand , controlling resource managment way better thanks to invisibility etc. As for now stamina nightblade is the class that have one of the biggest if not the biggest offensive potential and he is able to engane and disengage from combat on demand thanks to cloak and shade which basically makes this playstyle low risk high reward. There is a difference between ruining invisibility and balancing it and same goes for any type of defense. If anything should stop then that should be comments saying that everything is ok with nightblade stealth plasytyle in ESO.

This sounds so uninformed. Sorry.

Shields that absorb "X" amount of damage will do so each cast. Oblivion damage is all that ignores this.

Heals that heal for "X" amount will heal every cast. Defile and health absortion reduce and prevent certain amounts.

Cloak can be cast and have 100% of the resources be wasted with no invisibility. Spaming wont help. Shields and heals however can be to great effect.

What other defense is countered by potions? mage light/hunter? single target beams (ballista, soul assault)? Single target procs(overwhelming surge)? Heck even the nbs own proc (vicecannon)?


The claim of 100% evasion with no drawbacks with is actually false due to cloak actually having the most counters.

Of course if youre saying cloak users have 100% evasion with no drawbacks when specifically facing YOU. Then I have no say in the matter.

Which part of the "when they work" You dont understand ? Seriously I am almost certain that nightblade community is full of dyslectics.

Also it's funny that You name the counters for shields and heals and then later on You're trying to say that cloak is that bad ability that have lot of counters. Yes cloak have counters but everyone with brain can work around them with the use of shade which I also mentioned so it's further proff for some kind of dyslexia.

Not knowing how to counter cloak counters actually sounds very uninformed. I am saying about 100% evasion because I also abuse it if I can when I am playing on stamblade and I know from my own experience on both sides how broken and easy it can be to avoid almost every attack from certain setups.

"When they work"

For the second time:

Shields and heals work EVERYTIME you activate them.

For example:

Incoming damage: 10k
Health: 2k
Shield: 5k

End result is the player dies. But the shield will still absorb 5k. That means it still worked when activated. Dying doesnt mean the shield/heal didnt work.

As for cloak it isnt 100% evasion. Even when it "works" haunting curse, potl will hit. 100% evasion is wrong. No drawbacks is wrong. Simple right?

Lastly, lumping me into a "community" and name calling (dyslexic) takes away from intelligent discourse. On top of that falsely claiming Im trying to call it bad kills this conversation.

Thats you responding to your own beliefs. Yours. Not mine.

Ok sorry it's 90% evasion. That 10% will definietly kill those nightblades who can freely outheal that damage while in cloak. Shields and heals working every time is wrong as You said there is oblivion dmg and healing debuffs. Also there is that mystical thing called DAMAGE. Try using it agaisnt shields and You'll see something magical will happen. You can still do 100% dmg to someone that is using shield You can still do 100% damage to someone that is spamming heals. You cannot deal damage to someone that is invisible. Simple right ? You really trying hard to ignore that fact dont You ?

Also I did not said there is no drawbacks at all to stealth playstyle I said those drawbacks that are present are just easy to avoid when nightblade is not completly caught off guard. It's laughable that in 2019 people still use argument of detect pots where most of the stamblades with brain learned to play against that long time ago with the help of shade which I mention like 3rd time at this point.

I am not saying there isnt counter to cloak or that nightblade cant die ut guess what ? Everyone can die. You know when people cant die for sure ? When enemies dont see them.

Inability to read correctly is called dyslexia and lately I see that occurs in every thread about nightblade changes where replies are totally not connected to something somebody else was saying. It's kinda funny that conversations with nightblades always end up like that. They'll bring up those "broken" defenses of other classes vs their "weak" invisibility and will always provide super one sided examples of when other defenses works vs when cloak is not working ignoring the fact that to truly disable and kill stamblade with cloak+shade there is like 3+ people needed when heals/shields user can be defeated by 1 person. I come to the conclusion that delusion of stamblade players is bigger then delusion of magsorcs saying that petsorc atm is 100% fine.

No he is not wrong oblivion dmg don't magically make shield useless since they are not dispelled so even if someone hit you with a oblivion enchant the shield will absorb every other form of dmg.
Not to mention oblivion dmg is less common than one of the many counter to cloak that everyone got avaible.

So healing debuff make healing not working?how?they are weaker but still working otherwise you can go around claiming armor and mitigation effect make the damage skill not working every time.

Also youre example are biased,you can 100% dmg to a shield or to someone that is healing true but as you claim they are actually working preventing dmg or healing you back there is no stop to them you can make them weaker or outdmg them but they work.always.
Something that is simple yet you fail to understand.

Cloak make you evade single target spell not evade everything,if you drink a detect pot or break it then the NB will get everything you throw at them so unlike shield and healing when countered it do Nothing.
Sound simple yet people fail to understand it.

Shade is not on everyone build and just the fact that you need shade to make cloak work against decent player seem like this skill is not the ultimate defense like someone here was claiming,also shade is one time tiket not unlimited and you need to place it in place that is hard to see or they will simply watch where youre shade is and get you,if is a X vs1 situation even worse someone will just camp the shade and yeah you get the picture.

And yes you can dmg someone invisible that's why aoe break cloak because you do dmg to them you know skill like spin to win?they exist and they do dmg to invisible people,simple right?maybe not so simple to someone trying so hard to make the NB skill's sound so strong in every scenario,not the first thread you do that.

Also where did he say cloak is useless he just corrected your false statement to me youre the one that have dyslexia problem,might explain how everyone point youre wrong in one of the many NB thread you posted in

As a pvp healer, only thing that kills me is when someone debuffs me with defile. Not time to heal my heal or allies, and no matter how much I try to stack healing, it's just not enough to heal through defile

Mayrael

Instead of telling us why this change won't hurt magblades (which is not true) better give some reasons why this change is needed, because right now all I see is stamblade crowd defending a cheesy change.

universal_wrath

Nightblade using mark on another nightblade...I really don't see the problem. If he gets you out of stealth, you get him out of stealth and kill him, very simple. Your cloak fails? You shields from restro staff or light armor, or doge roll heal into cloak. Just because you don't have "bar space" to use mark doesn't every other class has, sorcs stack shield(mag only), templars and wardens heal, dks do their thing, you can as nb stack shields as well and cloak. The only reaso that makes mag sorcs unkillable, is potentioally stacking 3 shields, templars and dks and do that as well. Guess what, magicka nightblades and stack 3 shield, cloak, and heals together. L2P issue

universal_wrath

If nightblades only relay on cloak as a defense tool and die when detected, it's there fault, the game provides plenty of ways to mitigate dmg and heal that can stack on top of cloak

Insco851

Fwiw- already seeing an uptick of use on Xbox Na

Running my cloak mnb... ohhh marked!

Mayrael

universal_wrath wrote: »

Nightblade using mark on another nightblade...I really don't see the problem. If he gets you out of stealth, you get him out of stealth and kill him, very simple. Your cloak fails? You shields from restro staff or light armor, or doge roll heal into cloak. Just because you don't have "bar space" to use mark doesn't every other class has, sorcs stack shield(mag only), templars and wardens heal, dks do their thing, you can as nb stack shields as well and cloak. The only reaso that makes mag sorcs unkillable, is potentioally stacking 3 shields, templars and dks and do that as well. Guess what, magicka nightblades and stack 3 shield, cloak, and heals together. L2P issue

Lol... Magblade stacking 3 shields? Wrong class mate. And what about stamblade Vs magblade? Stamblade doesn't need cloak, he has roll dodge and vigor, best stamblades doesn't use cloak at all in duels while cloak is for magblade like roll dodge, because magblade can't roll dodge more than a two times to not get cc locked. This change favours stamblades by a lot.

universal_wrath

Mayrael wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Nightblade using mark on another nightblade...I really don't see the problem. If he gets you out of stealth, you get him out of stealth and kill him, very simple. Your cloak fails? You shields from restro staff or light armor, or doge roll heal into cloak. Just because you don't have "bar space" to use mark doesn't every other class has, sorcs stack shield(mag only), templars and wardens heal, dks do their thing, you can as nb stack shields as well and cloak. The only reaso that makes mag sorcs unkillable, is potentioally stacking 3 shields, templars and dks and do that as well. Guess what, magicka nightblades and stack 3 shield, cloak, and heals together. L2P issue

Lol... Magblade stacking 3 shields? Wrong class mate. And what about stamblade Vs magblade? Stamblade doesn't need cloak, he has roll dodge and vigor, best stamblades doesn't use cloak at all in duels while cloak is for magblade like roll dodge, because magblade can't roll dodge more than a two times to not get cc locked. This change favours stamblades by a lot.

What i mean is that you can stack 2 shields and cloak. Dk, templars and sorcs are the only classes to stack 3 shields using skills and not ulti or sets.

Stx

I like this change. It will help my ice staff nb tank a lot!

Insco851

universal_wrath wrote: »

Nightblade using mark on another nightblade...I really don't see the problem. If he gets you out of stealth, you get him out of stealth and kill him, very simple. Your cloak fails? You shields from restro staff or light armor, or doge roll heal into cloak. Just because you don't have "bar space" to use mark doesn't every other class has, sorcs stack shield(mag only), templars and wardens heal, dks do their thing, you can as nb stack shields as well and cloak. The only reaso that makes mag sorcs unkillable, is potentioally stacking 3 shields, templars and dks and do that as well. Guess what, magicka nightblades and stack 3 shield, cloak, and heals together. L2P issue

1. Dodge roll “heal” into cloak... magblade isn’t stamblade. What heal are you speaking of?

2. 3 shields.... what 3 shields? And what bar space? We rocking bone shield now on mag toons? Did magblade get a class shield in the unreleased patch notes? Please respond.

3. What “heals” are we also stacking on that backbar with “3 shields” plus cloak? Vigor? Wonder what my vigor tick would be on my mnb....

Edit: guess I don’t really have a third point.... just like we don’t have a third shield.

Jeezye

Iskiab wrote: »

Zerglings spamming mark target? All this thread proves to me is a lot of Nightblades have been excluded from pvp guilds, because it sounds like most Nightblades have no idea how group pvp works.

Running a spec to kill Nightblades is ridiculous, all you need to do is find one and they’re dead. Why use mark target when every class has aoe abilities.

Tbh while competent players will prefer AoEs, it’s the PUG snipers who are the vast majority of Cyrodiil population - and the ones sitting in safe distance spamming both snipe and mark without drawbacks.

I understand people relying on cloak worry about this change, however I think every nb load put, be it Stam or mag, should have a second set of defenses to go with cloak. Won’t hit my builds too much.

RavenSworn

usmcjdking wrote: »

Cloak has no business in any MMO.

The sooner this concept sinks in the better.

Yeah, and snipers have no business in any fps.

The sooner this concept sinks in the better.

Insco851

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Zerglings spamming mark target? All this thread proves to me is a lot of Nightblades have been excluded from pvp guilds, because it sounds like most Nightblades have no idea how group pvp works.

Running a spec to kill Nightblades is ridiculous, all you need to do is find one and they’re dead. Why use mark target when every class has aoe abilities.

Tbh while competent players will prefer AoEs, it’s the PUG snipers who are the vast majority of Cyrodiil population - and the ones sitting in safe distance spamming both snipe and mark without drawbacks.

I understand people relying on cloak worry about this change, however I think every nb load put, be it Stam or mag, should have a second set of defenses to go with cloak. Won’t hit my builds too much.

Yea cloak as the solo defense is a super dead nb

universal_wrath

Insco851 wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Nightblade using mark on another nightblade...I really don't see the problem. If he gets you out of stealth, you get him out of stealth and kill him, very simple. Your cloak fails? You shields from restro staff or light armor, or doge roll heal into cloak. Just because you don't have "bar space" to use mark doesn't every other class has, sorcs stack shield(mag only), templars and wardens heal, dks do their thing, you can as nb stack shields as well and cloak. The only reaso that makes mag sorcs unkillable, is potentioally stacking 3 shields, templars and dks and do that as well. Guess what, magicka nightblades and stack 3 shield, cloak, and heals together. L2P issue

1. Dodge roll “heal” into cloak... magblade isn’t stamblade. What heal are you speaking of?

2. 3 shields.... what 3 shields? And what bar space? We rocking bone shield now on mag toons? Did magblade get a class shield in the unreleased patch notes? Please respond.

3. What “heals” are we also stacking on that backbar with “3 shields” plus cloak? Vigor? Wonder what my vigor tick would be on my mnb....

Edit: guess I don’t really have a third point.... just like we don’t have a third shield.

1- for stamblade dodgeroll into cloak, for magblade, regenration/blessing of protection into cloak and you can use ward for more healing and protection.

2-Magicka NB can only have 2 shields if they wear light armor,if you want to use bone shield that is up to you and now you have 3 shields instead of 2.

3- use shade for tp and learn when to fight and when to run.

4- as for space bar, learn to use other skills beside you own class's and make up a room for survivablity skills instead of dps ones. Magicka sorcerer for example if they use matriach they use 2 slots for 1 skill, shields and heals. You rarly see sorcs running ele drain but always you see nb do. Now you have magic drain bound to your deb. So you have 1 free slot.