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Reflective Plate still no 4 seconds of immunity after Patch 5.0.2
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Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »-Already an overloaded skill. No immunity needed.
Reflective Plate (class skill)
- 3510 magicka cost
- 50% projectile mitigation for 6 seconds
- snare and immobilize immunity for 2 seconds
Race Against Time (skill available to anyone)
- 2984 magicka cost
- Minor Force for 12 seconds
- Major Expedition for 4 seconds
- 5k decaying shield while blocking for having RAT slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 4 seconds
Reflective plate is sooooo overloaded.
What no passives for having plate slotted? If you’re going to throw in passives from the skill line you really should be consistent. Otherwise people will see you as being biased and ignore your comments all together.
Sorry, you are right. I forgot about that health recovery passive. Does not change the point tho, health recovery in PvP is desired stat only on very specific builds, mostly stamsorc ones.
But ok, let me correct that.
Reflective Plate (class skill)
- 3510 magicka cost
- 50% projectile mitigation for 6 seconds
- +5% health recovery for having wings slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 2 seconds
Race Against Time (skill available to anyone)
- 2984 magicka cost
- Minor Force for 12 seconds
- Major Expedition for 4 seconds
- 5k decaying shield while blocking for having RAT slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 4 seconds
The main point of this thread still stands. I don't seek RAT nerf. I don't seek Reflective Plate buff. I just want for snare/immobilize abilities to work consistently. Not this, one has it's duration, other one has another duration, despite it's the exactly same effect. Looking at previous patch notes, ZOS is trying to get rid of inconsistencies:
- Major expedition from skills like boundless storm, 4 seconds duration. Even RAT is adjusted to this 4 seconds standard. Why? Because consistency.
- Daedric Prey, all pets were receiving +55% damage while Attronachs only +40%. All pets now including Attronachs receive +40%. Why? Because consistency.
Why not taking a look on this one then? But I fear that instead of bringing the duration in line, ZoS will just label it as "rule breaker", just like with Falcon's swiftness.
Wings give you passively 12% healing recieve.
You are wrong. You get Burning Heart buff (+12% healing received) for having Draconic ability active, not slotted. You have (or at least should have) Spiked Armor active all the time. On top of that, as magDK, you have Coagulating Blood active. If wings add anything to your Burning Heart uptime, that means you are bad at managing your buffs.
I'm right, my point was to complete the list of passive link to the skill.
Of course spiked armor is 100% active.
Comparing 2 skills with biased dk is always funny.
You shouldn't compare passive (and forget the strongest one) when you look at the snare and immobilisation immunity.
Wings have a very strong base effect, 50% mitigation VS projectile. There is one offensive morph and one more defensive.
With RAT in competition, reflective wings should be the middle, allowing good defense and base mobility with good immunity.
RAT should be the best mobility choice, adding major expedition + immunity + offensive buff at cheap cost.
I also think wings should have 4s immunity.
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satanio✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »-Already an overloaded skill. No immunity needed.
Reflective Plate (class skill)
- 3510 magicka cost
- 50% projectile mitigation for 6 seconds
- snare and immobilize immunity for 2 seconds
Race Against Time (skill available to anyone)
- 2984 magicka cost
- Minor Force for 12 seconds
- Major Expedition for 4 seconds
- 5k decaying shield while blocking for having RAT slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 4 seconds
Reflective plate is sooooo overloaded.
What no passives for having plate slotted? If you’re going to throw in passives from the skill line you really should be consistent. Otherwise people will see you as being biased and ignore your comments all together.
Sorry, you are right. I forgot about that health recovery passive. Does not change the point tho, health recovery in PvP is desired stat only on very specific builds, mostly stamsorc ones.
But ok, let me correct that.
Reflective Plate (class skill)
- 3510 magicka cost
- 50% projectile mitigation for 6 seconds
- +5% health recovery for having wings slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 2 seconds
Race Against Time (skill available to anyone)
- 2984 magicka cost
- Minor Force for 12 seconds
- Major Expedition for 4 seconds
- 5k decaying shield while blocking for having RAT slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 4 seconds
The main point of this thread still stands. I don't seek RAT nerf. I don't seek Reflective Plate buff. I just want for snare/immobilize abilities to work consistently. Not this, one has it's duration, other one has another duration, despite it's the exactly same effect. Looking at previous patch notes, ZOS is trying to get rid of inconsistencies:
- Major expedition from skills like boundless storm, 4 seconds duration. Even RAT is adjusted to this 4 seconds standard. Why? Because consistency.
- Daedric Prey, all pets were receiving +55% damage while Attronachs only +40%. All pets now including Attronachs receive +40%. Why? Because consistency.
Why not taking a look on this one then? But I fear that instead of bringing the duration in line, ZoS will just label it as "rule breaker", just like with Falcon's swiftness.
If you are going to compare skills, then do just that: compare the actual skills.
Because passives are another argument and another discussion entirely. You're only listing the beneficial passives from one and not the other. Even after you "fixed" the mistake, you still aren't being consistent: Burning Heart's +12% healing received is an untyped bonus that stacks with everything.
And you're inconsistent in asking for consistency as you don;t have a problem with Inhale benefiting from an inconsistency.
And he even forget to add that RAT can deal dmg...
omg, if you were trying to triumph in nitpicking competition, I don’t think you could still win after this fatal mistake
.
Point still stands strong. Snare immunity should be for 4 sec.
It wouldn’t change a thing for magdks, but it might help stamdks (non-2h) that are, let’s say not in a good spot.
1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlackMadara wrote: »
I have to at least partially disagree. The far and away #1 reason to use Race Against Time (assuming it goes live as it is now) is the snare/root immunity. On live, it's actually extremely rare to see the ability used in Battlegrounds, but I expect that to change very soon, due solely to the immunity.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Those other abilities don't reduce ranged damage by 50%, so that's another inconsistency.
All of these abilities have their main effects (strong HoT and Major Brutality, Major Expedition and Minor Force, Projectile Mitigation etc.) and a side effect (brief immunity to snares and immobilizes).
Main effects are completely different and skill defining. What are we asking for is to bring in line duration of the side effect on all these abilities. It's the exactly same side effect on all these abilities but with different duration. That's a huge inconsistency if you ask.
Personally, I think ZOS has probably gone too far with the anti-snare/root mechanics in this patch (at least for everyone that has Summerset), and overcorrected the problem. It probably would have been better to start with a more modest approach: implement the timed root immunity after you get rooted, which I've requested before, along with perhaps some nerfs to specific abilities', plus a reduction in the drawbacks of Vampirism, then see where that leaves us.
Snares and roots both need to be in the game, and both need to be useful for PvP, but not something that was quite as spammable and easy to apply as before (especially in the case of roots). Now I think the pendulum has probably swung too far the other way. (But with BGs no longer really happening on the PTS, it's hard to say for sure)
What game are you playing where 4 seconds of immunity has somehow overcorrected crowd control that could be permanent? Have you ever played any other mmos? This isn't normal, the direction zos went by putting cc on every ability and little/no diminishing returns or immunity timers are things other games moved past a decade ago because players hated those mechanics. We need less cc, not more. They didn't do enough. Whoever it is at zos that was having a love affair with permanent crowd control needs to look at literally every other game in existence and go sit in the corner for a bit while the adults sort things out.
After this pts goes live, there won't be a possibility of permanent cc, unless you count perma snare. The root immunity means no perma roots. Cc immunity already exists. Most overperforming snares have been adjusted, and gap closer snares have been removed. The increased availability of powerful snare immunity will make the cost to benefit ratio of even efficient snares drop.
So where are you seeing permanent crowd control?
Snares. Rituals and Ice Blockades. BGs probably won't change much at all because you can still be permanently snared. It isn't (and never will be) enjoyable to play a 10 minute BG while being snared the entire time, so it's likely that I'll still completely opt out.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »
I have to at least partially disagree. The far and away #1 reason to use Race Against Time (assuming it goes live as it is now) is the snare/root immunity. On live, it's actually extremely rare to see the ability used in Battlegrounds, but I expect that to change very soon, due solely to the immunity.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Those other abilities don't reduce ranged damage by 50%, so that's another inconsistency.
All of these abilities have their main effects (strong HoT and Major Brutality, Major Expedition and Minor Force, Projectile Mitigation etc.) and a side effect (brief immunity to snares and immobilizes).
Main effects are completely different and skill defining. What are we asking for is to bring in line duration of the side effect on all these abilities. It's the exactly same side effect on all these abilities but with different duration. That's a huge inconsistency if you ask.
Personally, I think ZOS has probably gone too far with the anti-snare/root mechanics in this patch (at least for everyone that has Summerset), and overcorrected the problem. It probably would have been better to start with a more modest approach: implement the timed root immunity after you get rooted, which I've requested before, along with perhaps some nerfs to specific abilities', plus a reduction in the drawbacks of Vampirism, then see where that leaves us.
Snares and roots both need to be in the game, and both need to be useful for PvP, but not something that was quite as spammable and easy to apply as before (especially in the case of roots). Now I think the pendulum has probably swung too far the other way. (But with BGs no longer really happening on the PTS, it's hard to say for sure)
What game are you playing where 4 seconds of immunity has somehow overcorrected crowd control that could be permanent? Have you ever played any other mmos? This isn't normal, the direction zos went by putting cc on every ability and little/no diminishing returns or immunity timers are things other games moved past a decade ago because players hated those mechanics. We need less cc, not more. They didn't do enough. Whoever it is at zos that was having a love affair with permanent crowd control needs to look at literally every other game in existence and go sit in the corner for a bit while the adults sort things out.
After this pts goes live, there won't be a possibility of permanent cc, unless you count perma snare. The root immunity means no perma roots. Cc immunity already exists. Most overperforming snares have been adjusted, and gap closer snares have been removed. The increased availability of powerful snare immunity will make the cost to benefit ratio of even efficient snares drop.
So where are you seeing permanent crowd control?
Snares. Rituals and Ice Blockades. BGs probably won't change much at all because you can still be permanently snared. It isn't (and never will be) enjoyable to play a 10 minute BG while being snared the entire time, so it's likely that I'll still completely opt out.
It's quite the opposite. You have RAT now, cheap skill, widely available to anyone.2 -
Blinkin8r✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »-Already an overloaded skill. No immunity needed.
Reflective Plate (class skill)
- 3510 magicka cost
- 50% projectile mitigation for 6 seconds
- snare and immobilize immunity for 2 seconds
Race Against Time (skill available to anyone)
- 2984 magicka cost
- Minor Force for 12 seconds
- Major Expedition for 4 seconds
- 5k decaying shield while blocking for having RAT slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 4 seconds
Reflective plate is sooooo overloaded.
Well if we're counting letters in the tooltip yes RAT wins. No other class or skill line has a skill that simply negates 50% of projectile damage. The new reflective plate is a very strong skill and does not need anything added to it. If you have a problem slot RAT.II Blinkin II
Xbox 1 NA
"A man without the sauce is lost, but the same man can become lost in the sauce."1 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I have to at least partially disagree. The far and away #1 reason to use Race Against Time (assuming it goes live as it is now) is the snare/root immunity. On live, it's actually extremely rare to see the ability used in Battlegrounds, but I expect that to change very soon, due solely to the immunity.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Those other abilities don't reduce ranged damage by 50%, so that's another inconsistency.
All of these abilities have their main effects (strong HoT and Major Brutality, Major Expedition and Minor Force, Projectile Mitigation etc.) and a side effect (brief immunity to snares and immobilizes).
Main effects are completely different and skill defining. What are we asking for is to bring in line duration of the side effect on all these abilities. It's the exactly same side effect on all these abilities but with different duration. That's a huge inconsistency if you ask.
Personally, I think ZOS has probably gone too far with the anti-snare/root mechanics in this patch (at least for everyone that has Summerset), and overcorrected the problem. It probably would have been better to start with a more modest approach: implement the timed root immunity after you get rooted, which I've requested before, along with perhaps some nerfs to specific abilities', plus a reduction in the drawbacks of Vampirism, then see where that leaves us.
Snares and roots both need to be in the game, and both need to be useful for PvP, but not something that was quite as spammable and easy to apply as before (especially in the case of roots). Now I think the pendulum has probably swung too far the other way. (But with BGs no longer really happening on the PTS, it's hard to say for sure)
I know it's hard to understand ZoS buffing solo players, but after a little therapy with time it will make sense to all the zerglings and everything will be ok2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »-Already an overloaded skill. No immunity needed.
Reflective Plate (class skill)
- 3510 magicka cost
- 50% projectile mitigation for 6 seconds
- snare and immobilize immunity for 2 seconds
Race Against Time (skill available to anyone)
- 2984 magicka cost
- Minor Force for 12 seconds
- Major Expedition for 4 seconds
- 5k decaying shield while blocking for having RAT slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 4 seconds
Reflective plate is sooooo overloaded.
Well if we're counting letters in the tooltip yes RAT wins. No other class or skill line has a skill that simply negates 50% of projectile damage. The new reflective plate is a very strong skill and does not need anything added to it. If you have a problem slot RAT.
Mist Form negates 75% of ALL dmg.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Blinkin8r✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »-Already an overloaded skill. No immunity needed.
Reflective Plate (class skill)
- 3510 magicka cost
- 50% projectile mitigation for 6 seconds
- snare and immobilize immunity for 2 seconds
Race Against Time (skill available to anyone)
- 2984 magicka cost
- Minor Force for 12 seconds
- Major Expedition for 4 seconds
- 5k decaying shield while blocking for having RAT slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 4 seconds
Reflective plate is sooooo overloaded.
Well if we're counting letters in the tooltip yes RAT wins. No other class or skill line has a skill that simply negates 50% of projectile damage. The new reflective plate is a very strong skill and does not need anything added to it. If you have a problem slot RAT.
Mist Form negates 75% of ALL dmg.
I stand corrected. However mist form is an entirely different story. You can't block, attack anyone or do anything other than be a cloud of mist. A dk can activate the new reflective plate and then proceed to perma block and be even tankier than the troll tanks we have now. Or, if it's an actual skilled DK (which I rarely see anymore) use that 50% mitigation to go on the offensive. It's an incredibly strong skill for DK's and just don't understand why everyone is whining about it. 2 secs of snare and immobilization immunity is more than enough for this skill.II Blinkin II
Xbox 1 NA
"A man without the sauce is lost, but the same man can become lost in the sauce."0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »-Already an overloaded skill. No immunity needed.
Reflective Plate (class skill)
- 3510 magicka cost
- 50% projectile mitigation for 6 seconds
- snare and immobilize immunity for 2 seconds
Race Against Time (skill available to anyone)
- 2984 magicka cost
- Minor Force for 12 seconds
- Major Expedition for 4 seconds
- 5k decaying shield while blocking for having RAT slotted
- snare and immobilize immunity for 4 seconds
Reflective plate is sooooo overloaded.
Well if we're counting letters in the tooltip yes RAT wins. No other class or skill line has a skill that simply negates 50% of projectile damage. The new reflective plate is a very strong skill and does not need anything added to it. If you have a problem slot RAT.
Mist Form negates 75% of ALL dmg.
I stand corrected. However mist form is an entirely different story. You can't block, attack anyone or do anything other than be a cloud of mist. A dk can activate the new reflective plate and then proceed to perma block and be even tankier than the troll tanks we have now. Or, if it's an actual skilled DK (which I rarely see anymore) use that 50% mitigation to go on the offensive. It's an incredibly strong skill for DK's and just don't understand why everyone is whining about it. 2 secs of snare and immobilization immunity is more than enough for this skill.
The loss of projectile CC immunity will hurt the usefulness of the skill. Even with 50% damage reduction, that hurts. It is what made Wings a useful escape tool, being able to move without worrying about taking a random ranged cc.
The snare immunity time is more of a lack of consistency in skills, which ZoS has stated they are attempting to attain. Most sources of major expedition have had a normalized timer. This should be the case for Reflective Plate as well.
Other sources of snare immunity have powerful effects tacked on. 50% projectile damage reduction for 6s does not heavily outweigh 25% AoE damage reduction for 23s (shuffle and double take) or 4s of 30% movement speed and 12s 10% crit damage (RAT). Would 4s of immunity really tip reflective plate over the edge?0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I stand corrected. However mist form is an entirely different story. You can't block, attack anyone or do anything other than be a cloud of mist. A dk can activate the new reflective plate and then proceed to perma block and be even tankier than the troll tanks we have now. Or, if it's an actual skilled DK (which I rarely see anymore) use that 50% mitigation to go on the offensive. It's an incredibly strong skill for DK's and just don't understand why everyone is whining about it. 2 secs of snare and immobilization immunity is more than enough for this skill.
The Problem I have with the plate Morph specifically, which also many others share I think, is that this Morph is useless compared to just slotting dfs and rat. Why settle for 2 second snare immunity, when you can instead get 4 seconds, Major Expedition, minor force and the dfs Damage on top of it? The current Iteration of plate will just continue the trend of dk wings never having 2 useful Morphs.
Another Thing is that the changed wing design encourages you to not spam wings anymore since there is no projectile cap anymore, but with the plate Morph you will have to recast every 2 seconds if you want to Keep up snare immunity.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The overwhelming majority of my PvP is done in Battlegrounds, which is 4v4v4 (assuming all teams actually fill out, which they often don't in the high MMR ranges). When I do occasionally go to Cyrodiil, it's typically with 1 or 2 other people, though we did sometimes have groups as "large" as 5 or 6 players some months back, running Mag Sorcs + Mag Wardens and picking fights with zergs.ZarkingFrued wrote: »
I have to at least partially disagree. The far and away #1 reason to use Race Against Time (assuming it goes live as it is now) is the snare/root immunity. On live, it's actually extremely rare to see the ability used in Battlegrounds, but I expect that to change very soon, due solely to the immunity.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Those other abilities don't reduce ranged damage by 50%, so that's another inconsistency.
All of these abilities have their main effects (strong HoT and Major Brutality, Major Expedition and Minor Force, Projectile Mitigation etc.) and a side effect (brief immunity to snares and immobilizes).
Main effects are completely different and skill defining. What are we asking for is to bring in line duration of the side effect on all these abilities. It's the exactly same side effect on all these abilities but with different duration. That's a huge inconsistency if you ask.
Personally, I think ZOS has probably gone too far with the anti-snare/root mechanics in this patch (at least for everyone that has Summerset), and overcorrected the problem. It probably would have been better to start with a more modest approach: implement the timed root immunity after you get rooted, which I've requested before, along with perhaps some nerfs to specific abilities', plus a reduction in the drawbacks of Vampirism, then see where that leaves us.
Snares and roots both need to be in the game, and both need to be useful for PvP, but not something that was quite as spammable and easy to apply as before (especially in the case of roots). Now I think the pendulum has probably swung too far the other way. (But with BGs no longer really happening on the PTS, it's hard to say for sure)
I know it's hard to understand ZoS buffing solo players, but after a little therapy with time it will make sense to all the zerglings and everything will be ok
I've played Magicka Warden as my main character since Morrowind's release, so I'm well aware of how opposing snares and roots will leave you with no mobility whatsoever when you're solo (and if grouped in Cyrodiil, you better hope the Spiderman Vine doesn't bug out and teleport you back into the midst of the zerg...which I've had happen before). In fact, Magicka Wardens are more negatively affected by roots and snares than most, if not all, other builds are, and root spammers could completely ruin your damage as well as your mobility. A Mag Warden that can't aim their shalks has pretty laughable damage, and you can't afford much dodge rolling.
Still, that doesn't mean that snares and roots have no place in PvP, and they're certainly not just a tool of "zerglings." The days of every Stam build having 100% uptime on Major Expedition + Swift + Sprinting were ridiculous, and do not need to make a comeback (either for Mag or Stam). There needs to be somewhat of a middle ground, where snares and roots are both useful, but can't be used to completely shut someone down.0
