Reflective Plate still no 4 seconds of immunity after Patch 5.0.2

Olupajmibanan

Patch 5.0.2. did not bring Reflective Plate and Shuffle in line with other abilities that provide snare/immobilization immunity.

Just to remind:
Reflective Plate should have 4 seconds of snare/immobilization immunity buff just like other similar abilities. The same apply to Shuffle. Forward Momentum, Double Take, Race Against Time, all these provide 4 seconds of snare/immobilize immunity.

I thought that ZoS is presenting themselves as seekers of consistency and make abilities with similar effects to be in line with each other.
If you don't increase the duration on snare/immobilize immunity on Reflective Plate and Shuffle, we will rightfuly label you as a hypocrite.

wheem_ESO

Those other abilities don't reduce ranged damage by 50%, so that's another inconsistency.

Olupajmibanan

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Those other abilities don't reduce ranged damage by 50%, so that's another inconsistency.

All of these abilities have their main effects (strong HoT and Major Brutality, Major Expedition and Minor Force, Projectile Mitigation etc.) and a side effect (brief immunity to snares and immobilizes).
Main effects are completely different and skill defining. What are we asking for is to bring in line duration of the side effect on all these abilities. It's the exactly same side effect on all these abilities but with different duration. That's a huge inconsistency if you ask.

seventyfive

Waiting for this as well

Juhasow

Where did they said they'll bring all snare/immobilize immunities in line ?

ATomiX96

Wait. When did they change shuffle? Isnt it still .5 seconds per medium armor piece equipped? So even with full medium armor you only get 3.5 seconds.

Besides that I kinda agree with OP on this one, but again it might have scary/unfun side effects such as heavy armor stamdks in crest/fury that could run rally instead of forward momentum for a burst heal with access to major mending and major vitality (through lingering health/vitality pots, usually what 1hs stamdks run for open world) and just tank for days with a burst heal added to their kit while they retain root and snare immunity through class utility.

Olupajmibanan

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Wait. When did they change shuffle? Isnt it still .5 seconds per medium armor piece equipped? So even with full medium armor you only get 3.5 seconds.

Besides that I kinda agree with OP on this one, but again it might have scary/unfun side effects such as heavy armor stamdks in crest/fury that could run rally instead of forward momentum for a burst heal with access to major mending and major vitality (through lingering health/vitality pots, usually what 1hs stamdks run for open world) and just tank for days with a burst heal added to their kit while they retain root and snare immunity through class utility.

Not really much of a matter thanks to built-in immobilize immunity we have all as of Elsweyr. Also, Race Against Time is widely available for everyone, so what you written will be true even if Reflective Plate remains unchanged.

wheem_ESO

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Those other abilities don't reduce ranged damage by 50%, so that's another inconsistency.

All of these abilities have their main effects (strong HoT and Major Brutality, Major Expedition and Minor Force, Projectile Mitigation etc.) and a side effect (brief immunity to snares and immobilizes).
Main effects are completely different and skill defining. What are we asking for is to bring in line duration of the side effect on all these abilities. It's the exactly same side effect on all these abilities but with different duration. That's a huge inconsistency if you ask.

I have to at least partially disagree. The far and away #1 reason to use Race Against Time (assuming it goes live as it is now) is the snare/root immunity. On live, it's actually extremely rare to see the ability used in Battlegrounds, but I expect that to change very soon, due solely to the immunity.

Personally, I think ZOS has probably gone too far with the anti-snare/root mechanics in this patch (at least for everyone that has Summerset), and overcorrected the problem. It probably would have been better to start with a more modest approach: implement the timed root immunity after you get rooted, which I've requested before, along with perhaps some nerfs to specific abilities', plus a reduction in the drawbacks of Vampirism, then see where that leaves us.

Snares and roots both need to be in the game, and both need to be useful for PvP, but not something that was quite as spammable and easy to apply as before (especially in the case of roots). Now I think the pendulum has probably swung too far the other way. (But with BGs no longer really happening on the PTS, it's hard to say for sure)

Vapirko

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Wait. When did they change shuffle? Isnt it still .5 seconds per medium armor piece equipped? So even with full medium armor you only get 3.5 seconds.

Besides that I kinda agree with OP on this one, but again it might have scary/unfun side effects such as heavy armor stamdks in crest/fury that could run rally instead of forward momentum for a burst heal with access to major mending and major vitality (through lingering health/vitality pots, usually what 1hs stamdks run for open world) and just tank for days with a burst heal added to their kit while they retain root and snare immunity through class utility.

They did not and it’s BS. Medium armor is now undeniably the worst spec in PvP hands down. I think RAT is awesome and they should keep it, but I will absolutely be specing into heavy armor with RAT and Rally on my Stamplar next match. Medium is dead.

ATomiX96

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Wait. When did they change shuffle? Isnt it still .5 seconds per medium armor piece equipped? So even with full medium armor you only get 3.5 seconds.

Besides that I kinda agree with OP on this one, but again it might have scary/unfun side effects such as heavy armor stamdks in crest/fury that could run rally instead of forward momentum for a burst heal with access to major mending and major vitality (through lingering health/vitality pots, usually what 1hs stamdks run for open world) and just tank for days with a burst heal added to their kit while they retain root and snare immunity through class utility.

Not really much of a matter thanks to built-in immobilize immunity we have all as of Elsweyr. Also, Race Against Time is widely available for everyone, so what you written will be true even if Reflective Plate remains unchanged.

True, forgot about race against time, elsweyr pvp is gonna be such a sh!tshow, but they might still change race against time, because the way it is now, is just upright stupid, spend a little magicka for snare/root immunity, major expedition and minor force. And that on an ability which is an instant cast rather than a channel seems way to overloaded.

Chilly-McFreeze

Vapirko wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Wait. When did they change shuffle? Isnt it still .5 seconds per medium armor piece equipped? So even with full medium armor you only get 3.5 seconds.

Besides that I kinda agree with OP on this one, but again it might have scary/unfun side effects such as heavy armor stamdks in crest/fury that could run rally instead of forward momentum for a burst heal with access to major mending and major vitality (through lingering health/vitality pots, usually what 1hs stamdks run for open world) and just tank for days with a burst heal added to their kit while they retain root and snare immunity through class utility.

They did not and it’s BS. Medium armor is now undeniably the worst spec in PvP hands down. I think RAT is awesome and they should keep it, but I will absolutely be specing into heavy armor with RAT and Rally on my Stamplar next match. Medium is dead.

100% this. I was still torn between medium (shuffle & rally) or heavy (fm) but now there is so little drawback on the mobility side for heavy that I can't reason for running medium anymore. The few % of increased sprint speed is neglectable. Or I just use Steed mundus since it synergyzes well with Troll King anyway.

Sanguinor2

Yeah its kinda sad, I was trying to figure out a medium armor stamdk (nevermind that every stam dk pvper I know told me that heavy is way better already) because I wanted to have Rally and the Major Evasion from Shuffle but come elsweyr RAT is gonna be so strong that I can just swap armor weights around, loose next to Nothing and gain a whole lot of tankyness.

StShoot

RAT is way to cheap. One of the Core mechanics in Eso were that defencive abilitys cost more than the offensive ones (besides some exceptions) But rat is just overbuffed, snare removal, speed, sprint reduction, crit dmg.. there is no reason to play another snare removal

Sheuib

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Wait. When did they change shuffle? Isnt it still .5 seconds per medium armor piece equipped? So even with full medium armor you only get 3.5 seconds.

Besides that I kinda agree with OP on this one, but again it might have scary/unfun side effects such as heavy armor stamdks in crest/fury that could run rally instead of forward momentum for a burst heal with access to major mending and major vitality (through lingering health/vitality pots, usually what 1hs stamdks run for open world) and just tank for days with a burst heal added to their kit while they retain root and snare immunity through class utility.

Not really much of a matter thanks to built-in immobilize immunity we have all as of Elsweyr. Also, Race Against Time is widely available for everyone, so what you written will be true even if Reflective Plate remains unchanged.

True, forgot about race against time, elsweyr pvp is gonna be such a sh!tshow, but they might still change race against time, because the way it is now, is just upright stupid, spend a little magicka for snare/root immunity, major expedition and minor force. And that on an ability which is an instant cast rather than a channel seems way to overloaded.

This is not overloaded. It’s the same amount of benefits as forward momentum and something magicka builds have needed since release.

Sheuib

StShoot wrote: »

RAT is way to cheap. One of the Core mechanics in Eso were that defencive abilitys cost more than the offensive ones (besides some exceptions) But rat is just overbuffed, snare removal, speed, sprint reduction, crit dmg.. there is no reason to play another snare removal

Sprint reduction is being removed for snare removal. RAT is the ability that finally puts magicka builds on an equal mobility as Stam builds and all the Stam players are freaking out about it.

Chilly-McFreeze

Sheuib wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

RAT is way to cheap. One of the Core mechanics in Eso were that defencive abilitys cost more than the offensive ones (besides some exceptions) But rat is just overbuffed, snare removal, speed, sprint reduction, crit dmg.. there is no reason to play another snare removal

Sprint reduction is being removed for snare removal. RAT is the ability that finally puts magicka builds on an equal mobility as Stam builds and all the Stam players are freaking out about it.

Maybe it's not just about stam being more mobile than mag, maybe it's also about what side effects this causes? If you'd bothered to read former comments you'd seen that heavy stam is now just as mobile, strong and able to heal as medium stam. RAT allows you to use Rally & SnB in heavy and still have on demand maj Exp, snare immunity, burst heal etc. without any drawbacks. So why choose medium in the first place?

Sanguinor2

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Maybe it's not just about stam being more mobile than mag, maybe it's also about what side effects this causes? If you'd bothered to read former comments you'd seen that heavy stam is now just as mobile, strong and able to heal as medium stam. RAT allows you to use Rally & SnB in heavy and still have on demand maj Exp, snare immunity, burst heal etc. without any drawbacks. So why choose medium in the first place?

That exactly, Combine this with Shuffle being left behind and being the second weakest in Terms of snare immunity (only plate Morph from wings is weaker by 0.5 seconds if we go with the average of 5 medium armor used) and medium armor has Nothing going for it except Maybe the crit passive since you will also get higher weapon Damage with the heavy sets like seventh and fury.
I really wish ZOS would look at Shuffle again, the most restricted snare immunity/removal skill being one of the 2 weakest in Terms of Duration while nightblade has the exact same ability but in nearly double the Duration really Warrants a balance pass at Shuffle in my opinion.

satanio

Sheuib wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

RAT is way to cheap. One of the Core mechanics in Eso were that defencive abilitys cost more than the offensive ones (besides some exceptions) But rat is just overbuffed, snare removal, speed, sprint reduction, crit dmg.. there is no reason to play another snare removal

Sprint reduction is being removed for snare removal. RAT is the ability that finally puts magicka builds on an equal mobility as Stam builds and all the Stam players are freaking out about it.

Race against time is available to everyone. It’s better than forward momentum since you dont have to use 2h build.

StShoot

satanio wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

RAT is way to cheap. One of the Core mechanics in Eso were that defencive abilitys cost more than the offensive ones (besides some exceptions) But rat is just overbuffed, snare removal, speed, sprint reduction, crit dmg.. there is no reason to play another snare removal

Sprint reduction is being removed for snare removal. RAT is the ability that finally puts magicka builds on an equal mobility as Stam builds and all the Stam players are freaking out about it.

Race against time is available to everyone. It’s better than forward momentum since you dont have to use 2h build.

Avaible for everyone who has summerset, also im more concerned about stamina players using it, they gain snare immunety over their sub ressource. Also it will make a lot more build options available on stamina (s&b+dualwield etc) since they dont have to rely on FM, so yeah builddiversety is always nice but have a bad feelings about it. As far as magica is affected, our builds wont change (restro/destro, with some classes using s&b or dualwied).
We gain a supperior mistform (that might be broken in combination with cloak or streak but we will see) while stamina gains accses to new weapon combinations.

Nerftheforums

I totally disagree with you. Compare the following skills:

- Fm: 4s immunity, major brutality (extremely easy buff to get access to)
- Double take: 4s snare immunity, major evasion (difficult and strong buff to get)
- Rat: 4s immunity, 4s expedition, minor force. Kinda a broken skill atm with its super duper low cost (I would definitely suggest to increase its cost post psijic passive reduction by at least 1k), but it has a relatively rare buff to get (minor force) and a relatively easy one to get (major expedition)
- Shuffle: 2.5s immunity, major evasion
- Wings: 2s expedition, 50% damage reduction from range attacks. An extremely strong buff, unique, and literally a game changer.

You seriously, seriously think a buff like wings should just get randomly buffed because...reasons? Compare it to:
- Fm: why would someone use fm? A skill that is linked to a skill line and gives u a buff that even pots can provide you?
- Doubld take: it has double the immunity but also half the damage mitigation from less skills. Relatively balanced compared to wings. Less passive defense, more mobility, makes sense.
- Shuffle: wings are already stronger now, if you buff them there's not even a comparison to be made anymore. Shuffle giving 4s immunity will make it equal to the new double take, bringing us back to the point above.

Chilly-McFreeze

Nerftheforums wrote: »

I totally disagree with you. Compare the following skills:

- Double take: 4s snare immunity, major evasion
- Rat: 4s immunity, 4s expedition, minor force.
- Shuffle: 2.5s immunity, major evasion

Literally all you need to know about mobile medium armor. They should increase shuffle to 0.8s per piece or change "Athletics" to movement speed increase (and maybe readjust values, 10% in 5 medium is essentially a free Steed)

BTW what was that dev comment about "if you want good mobility, you have to heavily invest in it"? Because using 3 jewel traits, a specific potion and mundus, armor weight or weapon wasn't a good enough trade off - they just throw it all in the bin and gave everyone a far superior mobility tool with next to no trade off.

They seem dead set to push this to live. Which is why I don't want to see a cost increase "so stam can't use it".
Wasn't mobility a selling point of going stam? Why should they be pigeonholed into 2H or subpar medium + shuffle AND a standalone source of on demand major expedition (Bow, DW - pots have too long CD) while magicka get's cheap access to it all?

Sanguinor2

Nerftheforums wrote: »

I totally disagree with you. Compare the following skills:

- Fm: 4s immunity, major brutality (extremely easy buff to get access to)
- Double take: 4s snare immunity, major evasion (difficult and strong buff to get)
- Rat: 4s immunity, 4s expedition, minor force. Kinda a broken skill atm with its super duper low cost (I would definitely suggest to increase its cost post psijic passive reduction by at least 1k), but it has a relatively rare buff to get (minor force) and a relatively easy one to get (major expedition)
- Shuffle: 2.5s immunity, major evasion
- Wings: 2s expedition, 50% damage reduction from range attacks. An extremely strong buff, unique, and literally a game changer.

You seriously, seriously think a buff like wings should just get randomly buffed because...reasons? Compare it to:
- Fm: why would someone use fm? A skill that is linked to a skill line and gives u a buff that even pots can provide you?
- Doubld take: it has double the immunity but also half the damage mitigation from less skills. Relatively balanced compared to wings. Less passive defense, more mobility, makes sense.
- Shuffle: wings are already stronger now, if you buff them there's not even a comparison to be made anymore. Shuffle giving 4s immunity will make it equal to the new double take, bringing us back to the point above.

It wouldnt be a random buff but rather a buff to try and make sure that plate Morph stays relevant, with the current Status of elsweyr no one will use plate because dfs gives a lot of Damage and the same ranged Mitigation buff and you can simply use rat for snare removal and Major Expedition and minor force and psijic passives on the bar you have it on.
Dfs also is better sustainable since you will have to spam plate more often for the 2 seconds snare immunity, while you only Need to recast dfs every 6 seconds and psijic every 4 seconds if you want to Keep the snare immunity up.

Shuffle really Needs a buff tho, nightblades getting Shuffle but in better as class ability that is not restricted to armor choice is an Insult to medium armor.

Nerftheforums

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

I totally disagree with you. Compare the following skills:

- Fm: 4s immunity, major brutality (extremely easy buff to get access to)
- Double take: 4s snare immunity, major evasion (difficult and strong buff to get)
- Rat: 4s immunity, 4s expedition, minor force. Kinda a broken skill atm with its super duper low cost (I would definitely suggest to increase its cost post psijic passive reduction by at least 1k), but it has a relatively rare buff to get (minor force) and a relatively easy one to get (major expedition)
- Shuffle: 2.5s immunity, major evasion
- Wings: 2s expedition, 50% damage reduction from range attacks. An extremely strong buff, unique, and literally a game changer.

You seriously, seriously think a buff like wings should just get randomly buffed because...reasons? Compare it to:
- Fm: why would someone use fm? A skill that is linked to a skill line and gives u a buff that even pots can provide you?
- Doubld take: it has double the immunity but also half the damage mitigation from less skills. Relatively balanced compared to wings. Less passive defense, more mobility, makes sense.
- Shuffle: wings are already stronger now, if you buff them there's not even a comparison to be made anymore. Shuffle giving 4s immunity will make it equal to the new double take, bringing us back to the point above.

It wouldnt be a random buff but rather a buff to try and make sure that plate Morph stays relevant, with the current Status of elsweyr no one will use plate because dfs gives a lot of Damage and the same ranged Mitigation buff and you can simply use rat for snare removal and Major Expedition and minor force and psijic passives on the bar you have it on.
Dfs also is better sustainable since you will have to spam plate more often for the 2 seconds snare immunity, while you only Need to recast dfs every 6 seconds and psijic every 4 seconds if you want to Keep the snare immunity up.

Shuffle really Needs a buff tho, nightblades getting Shuffle but in better as class ability that is not restricted to armor choice is an Insult to medium armor.

Well, plates condenses defense and mobility in 1 skill. Using reflective and rat is obviously the best choice, but you are using 2 slots instead of one. Honestly imo rat should lose its major expedition, it's so strong atm, but I will never advocate that because otherwise magnb will have lost any source of major expedition besides path and tbh that would put a class another meter underground. It's selfish as ***, I know, and I agree rat is too strong atm. But buffing wings is not the good way to go imo becuase it would be a no brainer in that case. Why would u use shuffle (granted a buff to 4s) or fm on a stamdk, for example? Why would u use rat on a magdk? 50% projectile mitigation is huge, not worth the loss.
Moreover, lets not forget that dks not only have a decent major expedition class skill, but also have the potential to be the tankiest class in the game. Mobility and tankiness together are 2 things that should not be obtainable easily and without massive sacrifices.

Sanguinor2

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Well, plates condenses defense and mobility in 1 skill. Using reflective and rat is obviously the best choice, but you are using 2 slots instead of one. Honestly imo rat should lose its major expedition, it's so strong atm, but I will never advocate that because otherwise magnb will have lost any source of major expedition besides path and tbh that would put a class another meter underground. It's selfish as ***, I know, and I agree rat is too strong atm. But buffing wings is not the good way to go imo becuase it would be a no brainer in that case. Why would u use shuffle (granted a buff to 4s) or fm on a stamdk, for example? Why would u use rat on a magdk? 50% projectile mitigation is huge, not worth the loss.
Moreover, lets not forget that dks not only have a decent major expedition class skill, but also have the potential to be the tankiest class in the game. Mobility and tankiness together are 2 things that should not be obtainable easily and without massive sacrifices.

Chains isnt a decent Major Expedition skill at all if you are just trying to kite, pulling one of the People you want to kite away from to you or pulling yourself to them is highly counterproductive when trying to get Major Expedition for running somewhere. Or is there any other dk skill that gives Major Expedition which I have forgotten?

The no brainer is already there with RAT in its current Iteration, why wouldnt heavy stam (Maybe stamblade excluded because of double take) just run rat and Rally?

If Rat were only snare removal I might actually consider running plate, but the plate Duration is short compared to other snare removals and even contradicts the changed design of the skill, on live you may very well spam plate every 2 seconds for reflect and the snare immunity, with elsweyr you are actually discouraged to do so since you waste 66% off its uptime by recasting it early, in Addition the Major Expedition from rat is a game changer for open world/LOS and dfs actually does decent Damage and minor force for free and the psijic passive Shield are nice Things to have, so even with a 4 second snare immunity on plate I would likely not use it.

And come elsweyr with the current patch notes heavy stamblade will be tankier than a dk and have better mobility, dk tankiness suffered already anyway since you even have defensive passives that only buff block but block has been getting nerfed so heavily especially in no cp.

Chilly-McFreeze

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

I totally disagree with you. Compare the following skills:

- Fm: 4s immunity, major brutality (extremely easy buff to get access to)
- Double take: 4s snare immunity, major evasion (difficult and strong buff to get)
- Rat: 4s immunity, 4s expedition, minor force. Kinda a broken skill atm with its super duper low cost (I would definitely suggest to increase its cost post psijic passive reduction by at least 1k), but it has a relatively rare buff to get (minor force) and a relatively easy one to get (major expedition)
- Shuffle: 2.5s immunity, major evasion
- Wings: 2s expedition, 50% damage reduction from range attacks. An extremely strong buff, unique, and literally a game changer.

You seriously, seriously think a buff like wings should just get randomly buffed because...reasons? Compare it to:
- Fm: why would someone use fm? A skill that is linked to a skill line and gives u a buff that even pots can provide you?
- Doubld take: it has double the immunity but also half the damage mitigation from less skills. Relatively balanced compared to wings. Less passive defense, more mobility, makes sense.
- Shuffle: wings are already stronger now, if you buff them there's not even a comparison to be made anymore. Shuffle giving 4s immunity will make it equal to the new double take, bringing us back to the point above.

It wouldnt be a random buff but rather a buff to try and make sure that plate Morph stays relevant, with the current Status of elsweyr no one will use plate because dfs gives a lot of Damage and the same ranged Mitigation buff and you can simply use rat for snare removal and Major Expedition and minor force and psijic passives on the bar you have it on.
Dfs also is better sustainable since you will have to spam plate more often for the 2 seconds snare immunity, while you only Need to recast dfs every 6 seconds and psijic every 4 seconds if you want to Keep the snare immunity up.

Shuffle really Needs a buff tho, nightblades getting Shuffle but in better as class ability that is not restricted to armor choice is an Insult to medium armor.

Honestly imo rat should lose its major expedition, it's so strong atm, but I will never advocate that because otherwise magnb will have lost any source of major expedition besides path

Solution could be simple:

RAT: instant, snare immunity + major expedition for 4s
CA: instant, 4s major expedition, minor force for 12s (yes, needs another name)

And just like that you have an offense tool for PvE and a mobility tool for PvP

Sheuib

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

RAT is way to cheap. One of the Core mechanics in Eso were that defencive abilitys cost more than the offensive ones (besides some exceptions) But rat is just overbuffed, snare removal, speed, sprint reduction, crit dmg.. there is no reason to play another snare removal

Sprint reduction is being removed for snare removal. RAT is the ability that finally puts magicka builds on an equal mobility as Stam builds and all the Stam players are freaking out about it.

Maybe it's not just about stam being more mobile than mag, maybe it's also about what side effects this causes? If you'd bothered to read former comments you'd seen that heavy stam is now just as mobile, strong and able to heal as medium stam. RAT allows you to use Rally & SnB in heavy and still have on demand maj Exp, snare immunity, burst heal etc. without any drawbacks. So why choose medium in the first place?

You are totally ignoring my point. RAT is the only real source of snare immunity for a magicka build and don’t bring up mist form because that is crap. And, the only good source of major expedition for some magicka builds, ie templars. Forward momentum has 3 benefits, weapon damage, snare immunity, and a heal over time. So why shouldn’t RAT have 3 benefits. This is very much a stam vs magicka issue. Anyone that thinks it isn’t obviously doesn’t play magicka builds. Stop trying to keep the gap between builds in favor of stam.

Nerftheforums

Sheuib wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

RAT is way to cheap. One of the Core mechanics in Eso were that defencive abilitys cost more than the offensive ones (besides some exceptions) But rat is just overbuffed, snare removal, speed, sprint reduction, crit dmg.. there is no reason to play another snare removal

Sprint reduction is being removed for snare removal. RAT is the ability that finally puts magicka builds on an equal mobility as Stam builds and all the Stam players are freaking out about it.

Maybe it's not just about stam being more mobile than mag, maybe it's also about what side effects this causes? If you'd bothered to read former comments you'd seen that heavy stam is now just as mobile, strong and able to heal as medium stam. RAT allows you to use Rally & SnB in heavy and still have on demand maj Exp, snare immunity, burst heal etc. without any drawbacks. So why choose medium in the first place?

You are totally ignoring my point. RAT is the only real source of snare immunity for a magicka build and don’t bring up mist form because that is crap. And, the only good source of major expedition for some magicka builds, ie templars. Forward momentum has 3 benefits, weapon damage, snare immunity, and a heal over time. So why shouldn’t RAT have 3 benefits. This is very much a stam vs magicka issue. Anyone that thinks it isn’t obviously doesn’t play magicka builds. Stop trying to keep the gap between builds in favor of stam.

With the tiny difference that mag can stand its ground a fuckton better on average than stam. Without a snare removal on my magnb I don't have many issues surviving until some chimp spamming aoe snares comes in, if I do the same on my stamnb I'm dead in 0.2s. Same thing on my templars, actually with them it's even more emphasized. Stamsorc & magsorc same thing.

Olupajmibanan

Nerftheforums wrote: »

I totally disagree with you. Compare the following skills:

- Fm: 4s immunity, major brutality (extremely easy buff to get access to)
- Double take: 4s snare immunity, major evasion (difficult and strong buff to get)
- Rat: 4s immunity, 4s expedition, minor force. Kinda a broken skill atm with its super duper low cost (I would definitely suggest to increase its cost post psijic passive reduction by at least 1k), but it has a relatively rare buff to get (minor force) and a relatively easy one to get (major expedition)
- Shuffle: 2.5s immunity, major evasion
- Wings: 2s expedition, 50% damage reduction from range attacks. An extremely strong buff, unique, and literally a game changer.

You seriously, seriously think a buff like wings should just get randomly buffed because...reasons? Compare it to:
- Fm: why would someone use fm? A skill that is linked to a skill line and gives u a buff that even pots can provide you?
- Doubld take: it has double the immunity but also half the damage mitigation from less skills. Relatively balanced compared to wings. Less passive defense, more mobility, makes sense.
- Shuffle: wings are already stronger now, if you buff them there's not even a comparison to be made anymore. Shuffle giving 4s immunity will make it equal to the new double take, bringing us back to the point above.

Wings give 2 seconds of snare/immobilize immunity and not expedition. I don't ask for buffs or nerfs. I ask only for CONSISTENCY in abilities with same effects.

Every ability you mentioned has it's skill defining main effects and a side efect in form of snare/immobilize immunity. But, every skill has the side effect the same (4s duration) but Reflective Plate and Shuffle are the ONLY skills left with lower duration. That's inconsistent and for some time ZoS is pushing for cosistency in similar abilities (look previous patch notes) so I brought this up as another incosistency in identic effect.

Xvorg

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Patch 5.0.2. did not bring Reflective Plate and Shuffle in line with other abilities that provide snare/immobilization immunity.

Just to remind:
Reflective Plate should have 4 seconds of snare/immobilization immunity buff just like other similar abilities. The same apply to Shuffle. Forward Momentum, Double Take, Race Against Time, all these provide 4 seconds of snare/immobilize immunity.

I thought that ZoS is presenting themselves as seekers of consistency and make abilities with similar effects to be in line with each other.
If you don't increase the duration on snare/immobilize immunity on Reflective Plate and Shuffle, we will rightfuly label you as a hypocrite.

Let it go. In 6 months from now they will realize their mistake and just because some popular streamer will let them know it.

Xvorg

Nerftheforums wrote: »

I totally disagree with you. Compare the following skills:

- Fm: 4s immunity, major brutality (extremely easy buff to get access to)
- Double take: 4s snare immunity, major evasion (difficult and strong buff to get)
- Rat: 4s immunity, 4s expedition, minor force. Kinda a broken skill atm with its super duper low cost (I would definitely suggest to increase its cost post psijic passive reduction by at least 1k), but it has a relatively rare buff to get (minor force) and a relatively easy one to get (major expedition)
- Shuffle: 2.5s immunity, major evasion
- Wings: 2s expedition, 50% damage reduction from range attacks. An extremely strong buff, unique, and literally a game changer.

You seriously, seriously think a buff like wings should just get randomly buffed because...reasons? Compare it to:
- Fm: why would someone use fm? A skill that is linked to a skill line and gives u a buff that even pots can provide you?
- Doubld take: it has double the immunity but also half the damage mitigation from less skills. Relatively balanced compared to wings. Less passive defense, more mobility, makes sense.
- Shuffle: wings are already stronger now, if you buff them there's not even a comparison to be made anymore. Shuffle giving 4s immunity will make it equal to the new double take, bringing us back to the point above.

Ranged attacks?

Reflective Scale:
Renamed this ability to Protective Scale.
Converted the reflect function into a 50% damage reduction from projectiles. This happened to all 3 versions of the ability.
Dragon Fire Scale (morph): This ability no longer increases damage of reflected attacks, since it can no longer reflect. Incoming projectiles will now cause you to launch a fiery orb at the attacker that deals Flame Damage. Effect can occur once every half second.
Reflective Plate: Renamed this ability to Protective Plate. No other changes were made to the ability’s functionality.

It says projectiles. It doesn't save you from AoE or channels (like JB, Bow ulti or Soul assault).

Please, try to be accurate when referring to a what a skill will do.

Olupajmibanan

Xvorg wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

I totally disagree with you. Compare the following skills:

- Fm: 4s immunity, major brutality (extremely easy buff to get access to)
- Double take: 4s snare immunity, major evasion (difficult and strong buff to get)
- Rat: 4s immunity, 4s expedition, minor force. Kinda a broken skill atm with its super duper low cost (I would definitely suggest to increase its cost post psijic passive reduction by at least 1k), but it has a relatively rare buff to get (minor force) and a relatively easy one to get (major expedition)
- Shuffle: 2.5s immunity, major evasion
- Wings: 2s expedition, 50% damage reduction from range attacks. An extremely strong buff, unique, and literally a game changer.

You seriously, seriously think a buff like wings should just get randomly buffed because...reasons? Compare it to:
- Fm: why would someone use fm? A skill that is linked to a skill line and gives u a buff that even pots can provide you?
- Doubld take: it has double the immunity but also half the damage mitigation from less skills. Relatively balanced compared to wings. Less passive defense, more mobility, makes sense.
- Shuffle: wings are already stronger now, if you buff them there's not even a comparison to be made anymore. Shuffle giving 4s immunity will make it equal to the new double take, bringing us back to the point above.

Ranged attacks?

Reflective Scale:
Renamed this ability to Protective Scale.
Converted the reflect function into a 50% damage reduction from projectiles. This happened to all 3 versions of the ability.
Dragon Fire Scale (morph): This ability no longer increases damage of reflected attacks, since it can no longer reflect. Incoming projectiles will now cause you to launch a fiery orb at the attacker that deals Flame Damage. Effect can occur once every half second.
Reflective Plate: Renamed this ability to Protective Plate. No other changes were made to the ability’s functionality.

It says projectiles. It doesn't save you from AoE or channels (like JB, Bow ulti or Soul assault).

Please, try to be accurate when referring to a what a skill will do.

Crushing Shock is not a projectile as well. It falls under category: beam type attacks just as soul assault or jesus beam. But Shimmering Shield is catching Crushing Shock which is strange.

He even mentioned 2s expedition on wings which is also incorrect. Trying to condradict a consistency request without even studying what the skill does. Very well.