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Ruinous Scythe Change
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shokasegambit1 wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »From PTS Notes 5.0.2
Ruinous Scythe (morph): This morph has been redesigned so it no longer applies Healing Absorption to targets hit. Now, every third cast of the ability will set targets hit Off Balance.
I don't understand why this change was made -- this was a cool morph that did something unique. Why are you so afraid of healing absorption, ZOS? There's not even a dev note about this change. First the Solider of Anguish nerf, now this.Soldier of Anguish
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying 4800 Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating their next 4800 points of healing done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
Probably because it was broken on stamnecro with major defile lol.
Or you just never l2p - befoul cp tree recieved a nerf. And heavy armour heal buffs and perma block players are the only ones affected by this.
It's disgusting how many of them are out there that hold block and PvP. Then complain on the forums about a debuff or anything that counters your block fighting style.
Fassalas nerfed - Duroks nerfed - Defile poison nerfed - Soldier of Anguish nerfed in PTS - Befoul nerfed - Ruinous Scythe nerfed - if you cant see a pattern that surely favors perma block then shut the front door. And I'm sure your working on blastbones defile next.
This community still hasn't l2p and it baffles me. That's actually laughable to players like myself. But you don't see me here crying about it - I still find ways to kill the perma block players with a broom stick - then it will be nerf broom sticks. Lol
What the hell are You talking about ?
Yes befoul recived a nerf but it suddenly doesnt mean it wont exist anymore. It'll be still strong just not that strong as it is atm. You act like befoul would be removed not just nerfed. Also please tell me how You want to learn to play to avoid for example 2 stam necros stacking perma major defile on You and 4k healing absorption per second where that majoe defile basically makes that healing absorption 30% stronger.
I highly doubt that people who complain about healing absorption debuff are people that plays with permablock in PvP. What most people is raising their concers about is simple fact that stamina necromancer had simply too much of a healing debuffs. You are just adding Your personal agenda here.
Fact that You named most of healing debuffs nerfs doesnt mean ZoS supports perma block it just means You have some bias in that subject. For the record ZoS also increased the cost of blocking for perma blockers by changing how block calculates with enchantments and they've increased block stamina charging interval 2 times causing way faster stamina drain while perma blocking. Perma blocking currently is not the same as it used to be so I sense some serious bias on Your side if You still have an issue with it and maybe it is You who should l2p.
There is lot of contradiction in Your comments. You complain about perma blocking builds just to say later that You have no issue with killing them. If those builds are so easy to kill then why You complain ? Maybe ZoS should buff them if they're so easy to kill that You can kill them with broom ? But if ZoS should buff them then why You complain that ZoS is buffing them ? Seriously get real.
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WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭@Feanor
Whoa - attitude in the forums, for placing factual statements ? I'm concerned over other players abilities to understand and grow from there mistakes. Not make them feel bad for there competency level in eso.
I'm sorry I don't work for ZOS thus not telling you or anybody about the future of CP. You know as much as me at this point, and all I can say is quoted bye.
@ZOS_GinaBruno saying. 'We are looking into the CP system"
But based on trend and patterns in the 4 years I been playing. I'm making a calculated guess that they could be changing some trees and percentages.
Being factual about Gina words I am...
Good luck
0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »I really don't see the Necro class being all that PvP BG viable...
I dunno maybe I'm wrong, maybe 2 offensive skills from the class is enough.... Lmfao
Bro this class was tailored made to defile multiple people, has a ult than summons a blastbones per corpse, that same ult gives 5k of each resource per corpse, two different high dot aoe skills, and a skill that purges two effects. That’s just offense, in terms of defense it has minor main, major protection, minor protection, and major resolve and ward.
That's great for a tank!
From what I see, absolutely fine as tanks or healers.
But I also see an offensive toolkit entirely dependable on it's Ultimates alone0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Crixus8000 wrote: »Healing absorption doesn't belong in pvp. It's far too strong, especially if it stacked from other necro's.
Neither does capped resistances and 4k weapon damage, but it's bloody in PvP.
People are incredibly selective to what they find acceptable in terms of the game.
Well as for now most selective comment I saw in this thread is Yours where You try to compare resistance caps to healing absorptions ignoring all context.
Healing and Resistances are both mitigation.
Absorption takes 2k off a swing, most people build to have way more throughput than that.
So it absorbs healing overflow.1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »
Healing and Resistances are both mitigation.
Absorption takes 2k off a swing, most people build to have way more throughput than that.
So it absorbs healing overflow.
Actually healing isnt. Healing doesnt reduce the amount of Incoming Damage but resistances and other forms of Mitigation do.
mitigation
noun [ U ] uk /ˌmɪt.ɪˈɡeɪ.ʃən/ us /ˌmɪt̬.əˈɡeɪ.ʃən/
formal: the act of reducing how harmful, unpleasant, or bad something is:
effective mitigation of climate change
There has been no significant increase in funding for flood mitigation works.
specialized law: something that causes you to judge a crime to be less serious, or to make a punishment less severe:
"I was very young at the time," he said in mitigation.
His defence lawyers presented their mitigation plea.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Crixus8000 wrote: »Healing absorption doesn't belong in pvp. It's far too strong, especially if it stacked from other necro's.
Neither does capped resistances and 4k weapon damage, but it's bloody in PvP.
People are incredibly selective to what they find acceptable in terms of the game.
Well as for now most selective comment I saw in this thread is Yours where You try to compare resistance caps to healing absorptions ignoring all context.
Healing and Resistances are both mitigation.
Absorption takes 2k off a swing, most people build to have way more throughput than that.
So it absorbs healing overflow.
Healing and resistances add to "effective hp." This is different from pure mitigation, although mitigation adds to effective hp. Resistances are a from of mitigation.
Healing absorption is a very powerful effect, too powerful to be readily available. I would rate it in the same level of op as Silence. Healing absorption has no real counter, other than "heal past it."
Here is an example situation of why the effect is too powerful, especially on ruinous scythe. sNecro vs any stamina build. Both keep Vigor up at all times. sNecro spams scythe and the other stamina build uses any other spammable. sNecro deals damage, heals, and negates the opposing players Vigor. The other stamina player deals damage. sNecro will constantly come out on top no matter what the stats of the other player, due to their Vigor being negated. This is a very simple example, i know. Despite that, my point stands.
Ruinous Scythe with healing absorption was overloaded, and absorption itself would need very careful balance.1 -
Zekka✭✭✭✭Yeah, it was obvious that the healing absorption debuff was too much.
I actually like the off balance secondary effect, the only stuns in the necromancer's kit are the bone totem which is a small static aoe fear that triggers after 2 seconds and the glacial colossus ultimate, the first is easy to counter and the second a very costly ultimate.
Being able to easily put an enemy off balance lets you quickly medium attack to stun or heavy attack for double resource, make it every second cast and it should be good.0 -
Skullstachio✭✭✭✭✭
You forgot about the Soldier of anguish set.Major Defile+2K healing absorption AOES= 2LP
....
TIL
Previously, if the 2k tooltip of ruinous scythe was used with the soldier of anguish set, well take a guess. (But since the 2k healing absorption was removed, from one perspective, I see it as a good thing seeing as it has incredible healing to boot.)Edited by Skullstachio on April 30, 2019 11:35PMIf you see me anywhere. Know that I am sitting back with a bag of popcorn, watching as ESO burns the goodwill of its player base with practices that only disrespects the players time like it did to me and many others...
If a game does not respect your time, best thing to do is move on from it and find something else.1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlackMadara wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Crixus8000 wrote: »Healing absorption doesn't belong in pvp. It's far too strong, especially if it stacked from other necro's.
Neither does capped resistances and 4k weapon damage, but it's bloody in PvP.
People are incredibly selective to what they find acceptable in terms of the game.
Well as for now most selective comment I saw in this thread is Yours where You try to compare resistance caps to healing absorptions ignoring all context.
Healing and Resistances are both mitigation.
Absorption takes 2k off a swing, most people build to have way more throughput than that.
So it absorbs healing overflow.
Healing and resistances add to "effective hp." This is different from pure mitigation, although mitigation adds to effective hp. Resistances are a from of mitigation.
Healing absorption is a very powerful effect, too powerful to be readily available. I would rate it in the same level of op as Silence. Healing absorption has no real counter, other than "heal past it."
Here is an example situation of why the effect is too powerful, especially on ruinous scythe. sNecro vs any stamina build. Both keep Vigor up at all times. sNecro spams scythe and the other stamina build uses any other spammable. sNecro deals damage, heals, and negates the opposing players Vigor. The other stamina player deals damage. sNecro will constantly come out on top no matter what the stats of the other player, due to their Vigor being negated. This is a very simple example, i know. Despite that, my point stands.
Ruinous Scythe with healing absorption was overloaded, and absorption itself would need very careful balance.
Vigor alone does not suffice survivability.1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, it was obvious that the healing absorption debuff was too much.
I actually like the off balance secondary effect, the only stuns in the necromancer's kit are the bone totem which is a small static aoe fear that triggers after 2 seconds and the glacial colossus ultimate, the first is easy to counter and the second a very costly ultimate.
Being able to easily put an enemy off balance lets you quickly medium attack to stun or heavy attack for double resource, make it every second cast and it should be good.
There's already many sources of off-balance.
The new secondary effect is uncreative and lazy.1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »
Healing and Resistances are both mitigation.
Absorption takes 2k off a swing, most people build to have way more throughput than that.
So it absorbs healing overflow.
Actually healing isnt. Healing doesnt reduce the amount of Incoming Damage but resistances and other forms of Mitigation do.
mitigation
noun [ U ] uk /ˌmɪt.ɪˈɡeɪ.ʃən/ us /ˌmɪt̬.əˈɡeɪ.ʃən/
formal: the act of reducing how harmful, unpleasant, or bad something is:
effective mitigation of climate change
There has been no significant increase in funding for flood mitigation works.
specialized law: something that causes you to judge a crime to be less serious, or to make a punishment less severe:
"I was very young at the time," he said in mitigation.
His defence lawyers presented their mitigation plea.
Healing through damage has been damage mitigation since MMOs day one.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »
Healing through damage has been damage mitigation since MMOs day one.
Then it has been wrongfully labelled as such, by the very Definition of the word mitigation, healing is not Damage Mitigation because it does not reduce the Damage you take but undoes the Damage you have taken.TheBonesXXX wrote: »There's already many sources of off-balance.
The new secondary effect is uncreative and lazy.
What would you give necro instead? Because a spammable heal Absorption without a cooldown in AoE combined with Major defile in the kit(well even without) is something that shouldnt exist, especially if you look at cyro or bgs having 2 or more stamcros spam this, something like a stamdk wont outheal a 4k healing Absorption that gets reapplied potentionally every second.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.3 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »
Healing through damage has been damage mitigation since MMOs day one.
Then it has been wrongfully labelled as such, by the very Definition of the word mitigation, healing is not Damage Mitigation because it does not reduce the Damage you take but undoes the Damage you have taken.TheBonesXXX wrote: »There's already many sources of off-balance.
The new secondary effect is uncreative and lazy.
What would you give necro instead? Because a spammable heal Absorption without a cooldown in AoE combined with Major defile in the kit(well even without) is something that shouldnt exist, especially if you look at cyro or bgs having 2 or more stamcros spam this, something like a stamdk wont outheal a 4k healing Absorption that gets reapplied potentionally every second.
I knew the absorption would never make it live, that doesn't phase me.
People complained about it before testing it. But the idea of wrecking heals was cool.
Increased attack speed, secondary attack, a dot, reduced regen, who knows..
Every class doesn't need every effect from every class.
Edit: Since necros don't have a stun, they could make scythe have a stagger effect.
Edited by TheBonesXXX on May 1, 2019 12:50PM3 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Alpha-Lupi wrote: »
You forgot about the Soldier of anguish set.Major Defile+2K healing absorption AOES= 2LP
....
TIL
Previously, if the 2k tooltip of ruinous scythe was used with the soldier of anguish set, well take a guess. (But since the 2k healing absorption was removed, from one perspective, I see it as a good thing seeing as it has incredible healing to boot.)
They should have removed the Soldier of Anguish set, and kept the skythe.
I´ve tested Soldier of Anguish yesterday against several ballgroups, and that set just doesn´t do the job, whereas the Skythe would have given Stam Solo players a fighting chance.Edited by Thraben on May 1, 2019 1:38PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The guys who now justify the Skythe nerf are most likely the same that will cry the loudest when even bad ballgroups become "unbeatable" again after the next patch.
They should have removed the Soldier of Anguish set, and kept the skythe.
I´ve tested Soldier of Anguish yesterday against several ballgroups, and that set just doesn´t do the job, whereas the Skythe would have given Stam Solo players a fighting chance.
And how *** will said solo stam Player be when the People that outnumber him stack scythes on him? Not being able to do any healing at all when entering melee range sounds nice to you? Im sure that this is what stam solo Players all waited for.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.3 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »The guys who now justify the Skythe nerf are most likely the same that will cry the loudest when even bad ballgroups become "unbeatable" again after the next patch.
They should have removed the Soldier of Anguish set, and kept the skythe.
I´ve tested Soldier of Anguish yesterday against several ballgroups, and that set just doesn´t do the job, whereas the Skythe would have given Stam Solo players a fighting chance.
And how *** will said solo stam Player be when the People that outnumber him stack scythes on him? Not being able to do any healing at all when entering melee range sounds nice to you? Im sure that this is what stam solo Players all waited for.
Break down the absorption effect down over a length of time.0 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
And how *** will said solo stam Player be when the People that outnumber him stack scythes on him? Not being able to do any healing at all when entering melee range sounds nice to you? Im sure that this is what stam solo Players all waited for.
Trollking (the main survivability tool for Stam classes, along with block/ dodge roll) is not being affected by healing absorbtion but by Defile. You will get swarmed by defiling Blastbones still. From 50 m away. They nerfed the wrong skill.
Edited by Thraben on May 1, 2019 1:55PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
And how *** will said solo stam Player be when the People that outnumber him stack scythes on him? Not being able to do any healing at all when entering melee range sounds nice to you? Im sure that this is what stam solo Players all waited for.
Trollking (the main survivability tool for Stam classes, along with block/ dodge roll) is not being affected by healing absorbtion but by Defile. You will get swarmed by defiling Blastbones still. From 50 m away. They nerfed the wrong skill.
People are gonna dogpile Necromancer to get it nerfed into uselessness and then ask for buffs for their mains.
Just like they did warden.1 -
Trueconch✭✭They could've just given every third cast a 1.5k healing absorption. 2k every cast was too much but 1.5k - 2k every third cast would be fine.
This is was on my mind as well it allows necros the identity some people think healing absorption gives them but allows skilled players to counter such a powerful secondary effect by keeping track of scythe casts and avoiding the lethal ones and perhaps each cast has to be within 10-15 seconds from one another to get the stacks or they reset, idk. Im ok with health absorption so long as there is counter play available as it was scythe just seemed like mindless power.0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe the scythe needed nerfing...but now its jist boring and bland...before it was interesting....why not give it minor fracture or something0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Maybe the scythe needed nerfing...but now its jist boring and bland...before it was interesting....why not give it minor fracture or something
minor fracture exists already on multiple abilities so boring too
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Maybe the scythe needed nerfing...but now its jist boring and bland...before it was interesting....why not give it minor fracture or something
This is it. It got homogemurdered.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Borrowed time negates 5k healing on enemies that are stunned.
Often spammed in PvP.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler If you're going to gut something, at least add a unique secondary effect.
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Borrowed time negates 5k healing on enemies that are stunned.
Often spammed in PvP.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler If you're going to gut something, at least add a unique secondary effect.
Borrowed Time isn’t instant though and the effect takes a few seconds. I think strong debuffs just should never be AoE.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Mitaka211✭✭✭✭I have a feeling necromancers will be the new forum magsorcs
"Waaa, my class is the weakest , why you nerf that why you change that.". While at the same time outperforming any other class lol.0 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Since BGs stopped happening after the initial couple days of Week-1 PTS, it's hard to get much actual PvP testing done. However, going by that initial experience + plenty of experience from live + reading over various changes, I think Stamina Necromancer is going to be quite strong, while Magicka is going to have really bad offense but potentially powerful healing.I have a feeling necromancers will be the new forum magsorcs
"Waaa, my class is the weakest , why you nerf that why you change that.". While at the same time outperforming any other class lol.
Even if no Stamina Necromancer ends up using the Scythe at all in PvP, they'll still have the strength of the baseline Stamina toolkit, plus Blastbones with Major Defile (which will usually be cast in melee range, at least partially bypassing some of the big weaknesses of the skill). Will they be the greatest of the Stam classes? Perhaps not, but I have a really hard time believing that they won't be strong.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Borrowed time negates 5k healing on enemies that are stunned.
Often spammed in PvP.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler If you're going to gut something, at least add a unique secondary effect.
Borrowed Time isn’t instant though and the effect takes a few seconds. I think strong debuffs just should never be AoE.
I'm not for healing absorption as I am concerned over the homogenization of the classes.
What I am really not for is being thorough and concise with changes.0 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭I don't think nobody in the game should ever die we all should just RP and stick to one playstyle and collect houses. 🤔
2019 ESO 😂0