Ruinous Scythe Change

GrumpyDuckling · April 2019

From PTS Notes 5.0.2
Ruinous Scythe (morph): This morph has been redesigned so it no longer applies Healing Absorption to targets hit. Now, every third cast of the ability will set targets hit Off Balance.

I don't understand why this change was made -- this was a cool morph that did something unique. Why are you so afraid of healing absorption, ZOS? There's not even a dev note about this change. First the Solider of Anguish nerf, now this.

Soldier of Anguish
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying 4800 Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating their next 4800 points of healing done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

frostz417 · April 2019

Link the notes because I don’t see the patch notes

Nerftheforums · April 2019

Maybe because having major defile with a huge uptime + healing absorbtion is broken af. Just maybe.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Link the notes because I don’t see the patch notes

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471398/pts-patch-notes-v5-0-2#latest

GrumpyDuckling · April 2019

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Maybe because having major defile with a huge uptime + healing absorbtion is broken af. Just maybe.

Maybe that's what they thought, but we have no idea because there isn't a dev note.

Temeraire507 · April 2019

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Maybe because having major defile with a huge uptime + healing absorbtion is broken af. Just maybe.

Maybe that's what they thought, but we have no idea because there isn't a dev note.

It is what they were afraid of, they said it on friday during ESO live if I remember correctly.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2019

Temeraire507 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Maybe because having major defile with a huge uptime + healing absorbtion is broken af. Just maybe.

Maybe that's what they thought, but we have no idea because there isn't a dev note.

It is what they were afraid of, they said it on friday during ESO live if I remember correctly.

Yup, just watched it. It's at the 43:10 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiL5MzzniD4

Such a bummer, I like the idea of skills that do something different and feel unique.

Mettaricana · April 2019

Revert this change

Wing · April 2019

healing absorption on a spamable is OP, everyone that knows anything about balance and tested that skill that were also able to overlook the personal bias of wanting to be OP in PvP said as much, its really not up for debate.

its also obvious that its a PvP bias of people wanting to be broken, healing absorption is an effect that is ONLY worth anything in PvP.

I have no doubt that the people that wanted this skill to remain as is, or want the change reverted, also play multi pet magicka sorcs and think they are perfectly balanced and people just need to learn how to play. in fact they will probably go out of there way to tell you how weak they are and how easy it is to beat and how in need a buff they actually are.

same people.

thank god it was brought in line, way to go ZOS, necro is still OP so keep the changes coming.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2019

Wing wrote: »

healing absorption on a spamable is OP, everyone that knows anything about balance and tested that skill that were also able to overlook the personal bias of wanting to be OP in PvP said as much, its really not up for debate.

its also obvious that its a PvP bias of people wanting to be broken, healing absorption is an effect that is ONLY worth anything in PvP.

I have no doubt that the people that wanted this skill to remain as is, or want the change reverted, also play multi pet magicka sorcs and think they are perfectly balanced and people just need to learn how to play. in fact they will probably go out of there way to tell you how weak they are and how easy it is to beat and how in need a buff they actually are.

same people.

thank god it was brought in line, way to go ZOS, necro is still OP so keep the changes coming.

Sorry to completely disprove your "no doubt" statement, but I don't play multi-pet magicka sorcerer in PVP.

Concerning Ruinous Scythe, I liked the idea of theorycrafting a pure disease/defiler support build for small group play, and healing absorption would have been fun to build into with Necromancer and a set like Solider of Anguish (even though it's meh). It would be great to see healing absorption return in some form (maybe in a more costly skill), as it represents something that is unique.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx · April 2019

Welp, it's trash now.

F

wheem_ESO · April 2019

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

healing absorption on a spamable is OP, everyone that knows anything about balance and tested that skill that were also able to overlook the personal bias of wanting to be OP in PvP said as much, its really not up for debate.

its also obvious that its a PvP bias of people wanting to be broken, healing absorption is an effect that is ONLY worth anything in PvP.

I have no doubt that the people that wanted this skill to remain as is, or want the change reverted, also play multi pet magicka sorcs and think they are perfectly balanced and people just need to learn how to play. in fact they will probably go out of there way to tell you how weak they are and how easy it is to beat and how in need a buff they actually are.

same people.

thank god it was brought in line, way to go ZOS, necro is still OP so keep the changes coming.

Sorry to completely disprove your "no doubt" statement, but I don't play multi-pet magicka sorcerer in PVP.

Concerning Ruinous Scythe, I liked the idea of theorycrafting a pure disease/defiler support build for small group play, and healing absorption would have been fun to build into with Necromancer and a set like Solider of Anguish (even though it's meh). It would be great to see healing absorption return in some form (maybe in a more costly skill), as it represents something that is unique.

That healing absorption on top of the standard Stamina toolkit + Major Defile from the Stam-morph of Blastbones is just way over the top, and it doesn't need to return. Something being "cool" or "unique" isn't enough justification for it to remain in the game if it unbalances PvP.

You wouldn't really need to sacrifice all that much to be a "support" build that spams Health Absorption + Major Defile. It's not like you couldn't have obscenely high weapon damage at the same time, and proc some ~2k damage/tick bleeds, right alongside Master DW-enhanced Rending Slashes, Master 2h-enhanced Cleave, Dawnbreaker, etc...

GrumpyDuckling · April 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

healing absorption on a spamable is OP, everyone that knows anything about balance and tested that skill that were also able to overlook the personal bias of wanting to be OP in PvP said as much, its really not up for debate.

its also obvious that its a PvP bias of people wanting to be broken, healing absorption is an effect that is ONLY worth anything in PvP.

I have no doubt that the people that wanted this skill to remain as is, or want the change reverted, also play multi pet magicka sorcs and think they are perfectly balanced and people just need to learn how to play. in fact they will probably go out of there way to tell you how weak they are and how easy it is to beat and how in need a buff they actually are.

same people.

thank god it was brought in line, way to go ZOS, necro is still OP so keep the changes coming.

Sorry to completely disprove your "no doubt" statement, but I don't play multi-pet magicka sorcerer in PVP.

Concerning Ruinous Scythe, I liked the idea of theorycrafting a pure disease/defiler support build for small group play, and healing absorption would have been fun to build into with Necromancer and a set like Solider of Anguish (even though it's meh). It would be great to see healing absorption return in some form (maybe in a more costly skill), as it represents something that is unique.

That healing absorption on top of the standard Stamina toolkit + Major Defile from the Stam-morph of Blastbones is just way over the top, and it doesn't need to return. Something being "cool" or "unique" isn't enough justification for it to remain in the game if it unbalances PvP.

You wouldn't really need to sacrifice all that much to be a "support" build that spams Health Absorption + Major Defile. It's not like you couldn't have obscenely high weapon damage at the same time, and proc some ~2k damage/tick bleeds, right alongside Master DW-enhanced Rending Slashes, Master 2h-enhanced Cleave, Dawnbreaker, etc...

Thanks for your comment because your mindset (still stacking damage) perfectly segways into what I would do to implement health absorption and a set like Soldier of Anguish.

Have Soldier of Anguish be a tradeoff. Have it proc like it used to, without the stupid conditions, but at the cost that it drops the user's damage by x%. That way there people aren't stacking defiling + absorption + damage, but we could still make awesome support builds.

Strider__Roshin · April 2019

You're right, we should have incap inflict 5k healing absorption since it's an ultimate.

If this sounds game breaking it's because it is. Hence why putting healing absorption on a spammable was asinine to begin with.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2019

Daus wrote: »

You're right, we should have incap inflict 5k healing absorption since it's an ultimate.

If this sounds game breaking it's because it is. Hence why putting healing absorption on a spammable was asinine to begin with.

Health absorption is a cool idea. I'd like to see it implemented in a way where there's some tradeoff for it. Either a costly skill, or a reduction in damage. It would be a ton of fun to have a pure disease/defiler build for small group play.

Strider__Roshin · April 2019

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

You're right, we should have incap inflict 5k healing absorption since it's an ultimate.

If this sounds game breaking it's because it is. Hence why putting healing absorption on a spammable was asinine to begin with.

Health absorption is a cool idea. I'd like to see it implemented in a way where there's some tradeoff for it. Either a costly skill, or a reduction in damage. It would be a ton of fun to have a pure disease/defiler build for small group play.

Pretty confident most people don't find healing absorption to be cool.

wheem_ESO · April 2019

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

healing absorption on a spamable is OP, everyone that knows anything about balance and tested that skill that were also able to overlook the personal bias of wanting to be OP in PvP said as much, its really not up for debate.

its also obvious that its a PvP bias of people wanting to be broken, healing absorption is an effect that is ONLY worth anything in PvP.

I have no doubt that the people that wanted this skill to remain as is, or want the change reverted, also play multi pet magicka sorcs and think they are perfectly balanced and people just need to learn how to play. in fact they will probably go out of there way to tell you how weak they are and how easy it is to beat and how in need a buff they actually are.

same people.

thank god it was brought in line, way to go ZOS, necro is still OP so keep the changes coming.

Sorry to completely disprove your "no doubt" statement, but I don't play multi-pet magicka sorcerer in PVP.

Concerning Ruinous Scythe, I liked the idea of theorycrafting a pure disease/defiler support build for small group play, and healing absorption would have been fun to build into with Necromancer and a set like Solider of Anguish (even though it's meh). It would be great to see healing absorption return in some form (maybe in a more costly skill), as it represents something that is unique.

That healing absorption on top of the standard Stamina toolkit + Major Defile from the Stam-morph of Blastbones is just way over the top, and it doesn't need to return. Something being "cool" or "unique" isn't enough justification for it to remain in the game if it unbalances PvP.

You wouldn't really need to sacrifice all that much to be a "support" build that spams Health Absorption + Major Defile. It's not like you couldn't have obscenely high weapon damage at the same time, and proc some ~2k damage/tick bleeds, right alongside Master DW-enhanced Rending Slashes, Master 2h-enhanced Cleave, Dawnbreaker, etc...

Thanks for your comment because your mindset (still stacking damage) perfectly segways into what I would do to implement health absorption and a set like Soldier of Anguish.

Have Soldier of Anguish be a tradeoff. Have it proc like it used to, without the stupid conditions, but at the cost that it drops the user's damage by x%. That way there people aren't stacking defiling + absorption + damage, but we could still make awesome support builds.

If the Ruinous Scythe change was reverted, what's to stop people from just ignoring the Soldier of Anguish set, and having a spammable heal absorption skill + extremely high damage?

If we're no longer talking about Ruinous Scythe in particular, and are instead focusing on healing absorption more broadly - OK fine. I'm also not a huge fan of healing absorption available on support specs, since it would be something that generally favors premades over solo queued players in Battlegrounds (which is also a problem all on its own).

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

While I'm glad to see the heal absorption removed from the skill, the off-balance it was given seems soooo lazy. They really couldn't think of anything better?

_Salty_ · April 2019

Off balance is a great trade off. It adds 10% more damage using exploiter CP. Why is this bad? It's a cone as well so anyone hit on the 3rd strike is set off balance as well. Along with the other benefits of off balance.

I like it.

People need to cry less and test more.

WeylandLabs · April 2019

People are forgetting about the CP change later this year. I wouldn't get amped about something you can stack with CP right now.

Imo you should thoerycraft for the future, this was a bandaid fix for 6 to 8 months. In 2020 my money will be that this skill will be 100% useless.

It's sad that 3 weeks of pts community testing can completely destroy a skill forever. Because of a l2p issue - vs trying to understand a new class.

This gives myself as a vet player more insight were the community is today. Thus saving time for an ESO investment. It's actually really gtk... 👍

DoonerSeraph · April 2019

Well, at least necro have some reliable way to proc Armor of Truth.

wheem_ESO · April 2019

_Salty_ wrote: »

Off balance is a great trade off. It adds 10% more damage using exploiter CP. Why is this bad? It's a cone as well so anyone hit on the 3rd strike is set off balance as well. Along with the other benefits of off balance.

I like it.

People need to cry less and test more.

That 10% damage from Exploiter CP is only active when CP is, and some people's primary mode of gameplay in ESO is no-CP PvP. 'Course, anything was better than making Stam more OP in BGs.

Waffennacht · April 2019

I really don't see the Necro class being all that PvP BG viable...

I dunno maybe I'm wrong, maybe 2 offensive skills from the class is enough.... Lmfao

Canned_Apples · April 2019

If they want to give it something unique, they should make it so that the scythe slices through shields/bubbles and deals 1.000.000% bonus oblivion damage.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2019

Daus wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

You're right, we should have incap inflict 5k healing absorption since it's an ultimate.

If this sounds game breaking it's because it is. Hence why putting healing absorption on a spammable was asinine to begin with.

Health absorption is a cool idea. I'd like to see it implemented in a way where there's some tradeoff for it. Either a costly skill, or a reduction in damage. It would be a ton of fun to have a pure disease/defiler build for small group play.

Pretty confident most people don't find healing absorption to be cool.

Good one?

Revokus · April 2019

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

From PTS Notes 5.0.2
Ruinous Scythe (morph): This morph has been redesigned so it no longer applies Healing Absorption to targets hit. Now, every third cast of the ability will set targets hit Off Balance.

I don't understand why this change was made -- this was a cool morph that did something unique. Why are you so afraid of healing absorption, ZOS? There's not even a dev note about this change. First the Solider of Anguish nerf, now this.
Soldier of Anguish
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying 4800 Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating their next 4800 points of healing done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Probably because it was broken on stamnecro with major defile lol.

WeylandLabs · April 2019

Revokus wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

From PTS Notes 5.0.2
Ruinous Scythe (morph): This morph has been redesigned so it no longer applies Healing Absorption to targets hit. Now, every third cast of the ability will set targets hit Off Balance.

I don't understand why this change was made -- this was a cool morph that did something unique. Why are you so afraid of healing absorption, ZOS? There's not even a dev note about this change. First the Solider of Anguish nerf, now this.
Soldier of Anguish
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying 4800 Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating their next 4800 points of healing done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Probably because it was broken on stamnecro with major defile lol.

Or you just never l2p - befoul cp tree recieved a nerf. And heavy armour heal buffs and perma block players are the only ones affected by this.

It's disgusting how many of them are out there that hold block and PvP. Then complain on the forums about a debuff or anything that counters your block fighting style.

Fassalas nerfed - Duroks nerfed - Defile poison nerfed - Soldier of Anguish nerfed in PTS - Befoul nerfed - Ruinous Scythe nerfed - if you cant see a pattern that surely favors perma block then shut the front door. And I'm sure your working on blastbones defile next.

This community still hasn't l2p and it baffles me. That's actually laughable to players like myself. But you don't see me here crying about it - I still find ways to kill the perma block players with a broom stick - then it will be nerf broom sticks. Lol

wheem_ESO · April 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

I really don't see the Necro class being all that PvP BG viable...

I dunno maybe I'm wrong, maybe 2 offensive skills from the class is enough.... Lmfao

I think Stam Necro will probably do OK, since the baseline Stamina toolkit is extremely good, and some of the issues Blastbones has will be mitigated if you're usually casting it while sitting on top of your target.

Magicka Necromancer is indeed still looking pretty lackluster for offensive roles if you ask me, because the generic Magicka toolkit doesn't offer nearly the same offense that Stam does. I had to shake my head when Mystic Siphon was cited as an "area denial" tool in the latest ESO Live. Sure, that may have indeed been the original intent of the ability, but the beam's effect is narrow enough, the damage is low enough, and the corpse requirements strict enough that it absolutely does not function in that manner.

If you try and use it in the way that was described; tethering to a corpse at the bottom of the stairs while you stand at the top, you will in fact get a few ticks of damage in (assuming that the stairs are narrow enough) while some Stam-Bro runs to the top...awesome. But then he'll be out of the beam, and get far more damage on you via one light attack + proc bleed + Rending Slashes than your Mystic Siphon would do over the full 12 second duration (which you will only ever get against someone whose keyboard dies or who gets disconnected).

On paper at least, Magicka Necromancer looks like it could make a really strong healer. But offensive build for PvP, especially once all the players that are at least decent figure out how to fight you? Nah, not in its current state.

TheBonesXXX · April 2019

I want to see the data that influenced this decision.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Poison Skull gets 20% damage on a skills third use and now off balance for scythe for a third use?

Uh. That's not silly what so ever.

Sure, maybe 2k healing absorption is too much, but it was original . Like Volendung, this Off Balance idea needs to die before it even starts.

Vapirko · April 2019

Forum drama. This skill will still be really good. The off balance change makes it more interesting and also so that you have to actually think about what you’re doing instead of just spamming away and getting major defile and a huge heal debuff with no thought.

TheBonesXXX · April 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

Forum drama. This skill will still be really good. The off balance change makes it more interesting and also so that you have to actually think about what you’re doing instead of just spamming away and getting major defile and a huge heal debuff with no thought.

Let's homogenize the game even more.

Absorption was original, off balance is lazy and can be achieved with a lightning staff.