Whirling Blades

techprince

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

psychotic13

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

I think you misunderstood him, hes saying the fact its AoE, or has a 6m range isnt the problem. In which he is correct.

He also said if your problem is the scaling, he understands. Which is the problem here, the damage it deals.

techprince

psychotic13 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

I think you misunderstood him, hes saying the fact its AoE, or has a 6m range isnt the problem. In which he is correct.

He also said if your problem is the scaling, he understands. Which is the problem here, the damage it deals.

I understood him but this morph should lose the range buff. You will have 10m wide AOE skill or 5m wide single target skill.

Ragnarock41

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

You're judging the ability based on a very rare and niche example. And here, I marked your bias in your own post. Yes I did use steel nado in some of my builds, including stamDK and stamsorc, but its not like I have class spammables or executes to use, so who are you to call me biased for using it?

Now the reason you are being very delusional and biased is because you act like its the steel nado morph that does this ''mlg 420 noscope crazy execute damage''. The AoE range difference is MASSIVE between the two morphs fyi.

Whirling blade was a useless skill for god knows how many years, now that it got some attention you're going full on bananas, and worst part is, I don't even know why? Have you actually tried this skill? Do you know how tiny the AoE is? All it needs is less scaling and its good to go.

techprince

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

You're judging the ability based on a very rare and niche example. And here, I marked your bias in your own post. Yes I did use steel nado in some of my builds, including stamDK and stamsorc, but its not like I have class spammables or executes to use, so who are you to call me biased for using it?

Now the reason you are being very delusional and biased is because you act like its the steel nado morph that does this ''mlg 420 noscope crazy execute damage''. The AoE range difference is MASSIVE between the two morphs fyi.

Whirling blade was a useless skill for god knows how many years, now that it got some attention you're going full on bananas, and worst part is, I don't even know why? Have you actually tried this skill? Do you know how tiny the AoE is?

Hence proved. Let me tell you what bias means. Bias in the context of this topic means you are using the said skill and stating its not overpowered where as majority says the exact opposite. So again, Reverse Slice does not have double scaling, scaling does not start at 99% HP, nor does it have 6m range. Why should this skill get an increased range? Do you know why it was called Spin2Win in the first place? why would you repeat the same mistake?

usmcjdking

DW already has the highest base damage and best passives.

It's skills should reflect having the highest base damage and best passives and therefore be complete trash.

Ragnarock41

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

You're judging the ability based on a very rare and niche example. And here, I marked your bias in your own post. Yes I did use steel nado in some of my builds, including stamDK and stamsorc, but its not like I have class spammables or executes to use, so who are you to call me biased for using it?

Now the reason you are being very delusional and biased is because you act like its the steel nado morph that does this ''mlg 420 noscope crazy execute damage''. The AoE range difference is MASSIVE between the two morphs fyi.

Whirling blade was a useless skill for god knows how many years, now that it got some attention you're going full on bananas, and worst part is, I don't even know why? Have you actually tried this skill? Do you know how tiny the AoE is?

Hence proved. Let me tell you what bias means. Bias in the context of this topic means you are using the said skill and stating its not overpowered where as majority says the exact opposite. So again, Reverse Slice does not have double scaling, scaling does not start at 99% HP, nor does it have 6m range. Why should this skill get an increased range? Do you know why it was called Spin2Win in the first place? why would you repeat the same mistake?

The double scaling you speak of comes from DW passives, not the actual ability. With your logic we should treat every DW ability as an execute. As for reverse slice vs whirling blades, RS cost is much , much cheaper. And 2H passives have been lackluster for a long time.

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

Kidgangster101

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

You're judging the ability based on a very rare and niche example. And here, I marked your bias in your own post. Yes I did use steel nado in some of my builds, including stamDK and stamsorc, but its not like I have class spammables or executes to use, so who are you to call me biased for using it?

Now the reason you are being very delusional and biased is because you act like its the steel nado morph that does this ''mlg 420 noscope crazy execute damage''. The AoE range difference is MASSIVE between the two morphs fyi.

Whirling blade was a useless skill for god knows how many years, now that it got some attention you're going full on bananas, and worst part is, I don't even know why? Have you actually tried this skill? Do you know how tiny the AoE is?

Hence proved. Let me tell you what bias means. Bias in the context of this topic means you are using the said skill and stating its not overpowered where as majority says the exact opposite. So again, Reverse Slice does not have double scaling, scaling does not start at 99% HP, nor does it have 6m range. Why should this skill get an increased range? Do you know why it was called Spin2Win in the first place? why would you repeat the same mistake?

The double scaling you speak of comes from DW passives, not the actual ability. With your logic we should treat every DW ability as an execute. As for reverse slice vs whirling blades, RS cost is much , much cheaper. And 2H passives have been lackluster for a long time.

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

That is not true. DW has some of the best passives on the game. Why do you think meta for 5 years has been DW as main damage bis weapon? Steel tornado has been over performing since launch of the game.

So their solution is to buff a move by 50% damage and say it's okay because it has a smaller radius?

Double daggers have been the meta for how long because of crit and execute passive.

So again in pve 2h couldn't beat it out. So sorry to say it but this move needs a Nerf so it's not repeated all over again with a new morph.

In pvp Zerg groups just got stronger too. Sure they lost some radius but the got 50% more damage........ If there is 20+ people using an aoe execute chances are people are dying fast. It proved to work already and now they got 50% stronger......

The last thing that makes this move so great is the fact you don't have to aim. You can swing wildly with it in any direction and hit where other moves that are not performing like this feel much weaker than spin2win.

Ragnarock41

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

You're judging the ability based on a very rare and niche example. And here, I marked your bias in your own post. Yes I did use steel nado in some of my builds, including stamDK and stamsorc, but its not like I have class spammables or executes to use, so who are you to call me biased for using it?

Now the reason you are being very delusional and biased is because you act like its the steel nado morph that does this ''mlg 420 noscope crazy execute damage''. The AoE range difference is MASSIVE between the two morphs fyi.

Whirling blade was a useless skill for god knows how many years, now that it got some attention you're going full on bananas, and worst part is, I don't even know why? Have you actually tried this skill? Do you know how tiny the AoE is?

Hence proved. Let me tell you what bias means. Bias in the context of this topic means you are using the said skill and stating its not overpowered where as majority says the exact opposite. So again, Reverse Slice does not have double scaling, scaling does not start at 99% HP, nor does it have 6m range. Why should this skill get an increased range? Do you know why it was called Spin2Win in the first place? why would you repeat the same mistake?

The double scaling you speak of comes from DW passives, not the actual ability. With your logic we should treat every DW ability as an execute. As for reverse slice vs whirling blades, RS cost is much , much cheaper. And 2H passives have been lackluster for a long time.

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

That is not true. DW has some of the best passives on the game. Why do you think meta for 5 years has been DW as main damage bis weapon? Steel tornado has been over performing since launch of the game.

So their solution is to buff a move by 50% damage and say it's okay because it has a smaller radius?

Double daggers have been the meta for how long because of crit and execute passive.

So again in pve 2h couldn't beat it out. So sorry to say it but this move needs a Nerf so it's not repeated all over again with a new morph.

In pvp Zerg groups just got stronger too. Sure they lost some radius but the got 50% more damage........ If there is 20+ people using an aoe execute chances are people are dying fast. It proved to work already and now they got 50% stronger......

The last thing that makes this move so great is the fact you don't have to aim. You can swing wildly with it in any direction and hit where other moves that are not performing like this feel much weaker than spin2win.

Wrong. Steel tornado wasn't used by anyone till they made it undodgeable.

As for ''zerg groups got stronger'' argument, That is false. AoEs actually favour outnumbered groups, ever since they removed AoE caps. So your good old classic ''this is a zerg buff'' argument does not really apply in this case.

wheem_ESO

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

Or, alternatively, nerf the other executes to be more in line with Reverse Slice. Then implement at least one generic option for Magicka classes to compete with Stamina's three.

Ragnarock41

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

Or, alternatively, nerf the other executes to be more in line with Reverse Slice. Then implement at least one generic option for Magicka classes to compete with Stamina's three.

You mean nerf every other execute So people drop them completely in PvE?

wheem_ESO

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

Or, alternatively, nerf the other executes to be more in line with Reverse Slice. Then implement at least one generic option for Magicka classes to compete with Stamina's three.

You mean nerf every other execute So people drop them completely in PvE?

If it improves PvP balance, absolutely. Balance in PvE often comes down to nothing but ego (as long as the gap isn't super huge), while in PvP it can actually make the difference between winning and losing.

hedna123b14_ESO

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

Or, alternatively, nerf the other executes to be more in line with Reverse Slice. Then implement at least one generic option for Magicka classes to compete with Stamina's three.

You mean nerf every other execute So people drop them completely in PvE?

If it improves PvP balance, absolutely. Balance in PvE often comes down to nothing but ego (as long as the gap isn't super huge), while in PvP it can actually make the difference between winning and losing.

But who cares about PvP? XD

techprince

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

You're judging the ability based on a very rare and niche example. And here, I marked your bias in your own post. Yes I did use steel nado in some of my builds, including stamDK and stamsorc, but its not like I have class spammables or executes to use, so who are you to call me biased for using it?

Now the reason you are being very delusional and biased is because you act like its the steel nado morph that does this ''mlg 420 noscope crazy execute damage''. The AoE range difference is MASSIVE between the two morphs fyi.

Whirling blade was a useless skill for god knows how many years, now that it got some attention you're going full on bananas, and worst part is, I don't even know why? Have you actually tried this skill? Do you know how tiny the AoE is?

Hence proved. Let me tell you what bias means. Bias in the context of this topic means you are using the said skill and stating its not overpowered where as majority says the exact opposite. So again, Reverse Slice does not have double scaling, scaling does not start at 99% HP, nor does it have 6m range. Why should this skill get an increased range? Do you know why it was called Spin2Win in the first place? why would you repeat the same mistake?

The double scaling you speak of comes from DW passives, not the actual ability. With your logic we should treat every DW ability as an execute. As for reverse slice vs whirling blades, RS cost is much , much cheaper. And 2H passives have been lackluster for a long time.

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

The last time i checked, Whirlwind was in DW as well. DW passives are 200% better than 2H and yet you defend Whirlwind. There is a thing called power creep. Google it.

ChefZero

AOE damage skills and heals need a rework in general. Just compare cost damage/heal ratio of single and multitarget skills. IMO AOE skills should outperform single target skills after at least 3 targets.

If you look at 4 people spam AOEs in BGs and compare it to other competitive modes of other MMOs it's just a joke.

Btw adjusting AOE skills/procs by increasing/reducing radius from 4 to 5 meters for example is silly. 8 player cap was bad but low range AOEs are also bad.

Kidgangster101

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

You're judging the ability based on a very rare and niche example. And here, I marked your bias in your own post. Yes I did use steel nado in some of my builds, including stamDK and stamsorc, but its not like I have class spammables or executes to use, so who are you to call me biased for using it?

Now the reason you are being very delusional and biased is because you act like its the steel nado morph that does this ''mlg 420 noscope crazy execute damage''. The AoE range difference is MASSIVE between the two morphs fyi.

Whirling blade was a useless skill for god knows how many years, now that it got some attention you're going full on bananas, and worst part is, I don't even know why? Have you actually tried this skill? Do you know how tiny the AoE is?

Hence proved. Let me tell you what bias means. Bias in the context of this topic means you are using the said skill and stating its not overpowered where as majority says the exact opposite. So again, Reverse Slice does not have double scaling, scaling does not start at 99% HP, nor does it have 6m range. Why should this skill get an increased range? Do you know why it was called Spin2Win in the first place? why would you repeat the same mistake?

The double scaling you speak of comes from DW passives, not the actual ability. With your logic we should treat every DW ability as an execute. As for reverse slice vs whirling blades, RS cost is much , much cheaper. And 2H passives have been lackluster for a long time.

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

That is not true. DW has some of the best passives on the game. Why do you think meta for 5 years has been DW as main damage bis weapon? Steel tornado has been over performing since launch of the game.

So their solution is to buff a move by 50% damage and say it's okay because it has a smaller radius?

Double daggers have been the meta for how long because of crit and execute passive.

So again in pve 2h couldn't beat it out. So sorry to say it but this move needs a Nerf so it's not repeated all over again with a new morph.

In pvp Zerg groups just got stronger too. Sure they lost some radius but the got 50% more damage........ If there is 20+ people using an aoe execute chances are people are dying fast. It proved to work already and now they got 50% stronger......

The last thing that makes this move so great is the fact you don't have to aim. You can swing wildly with it in any direction and hit where other moves that are not performing like this feel much weaker than spin2win.

Wrong. Steel tornado wasn't used by anyone till they made it undodgeable.

As for ''zerg groups got stronger'' argument, That is false. AoEs actually favour outnumbered groups, ever since they removed AoE caps. So your good old classic ''this is a zerg buff'' argument does not really apply in this case.

Steel tornado has been the "meta" Stam build since 2014.......... We are now in 2019 I call that over performing and if you don't then there is a problem with your logic.

As far as you saying it is a buff to non Zerg groups which is true. But let me ask you what do you think is going to win, 5 people using whirling blades against 30 or 30 using whirling blades against 5?

And you still think it helps non Zerg groups? Idk if we are playing the same game lol

Jeezye

Luckily most zergers don’t use nado. I’ll take a look at the skill next PTS iteration too and will see for my own, but I don’t think whirling blades will be that big of a problem due to the limited radius.

I’m more concerned about AoEs in general and I don’t really get the reasoning behind the blanket buff they received

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

And the funniest part is that only Stamina characters have a relatively easy access to Major Evasion.

psychotic13

jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »

And the funniest part is that only Stamina characters have a relatively easy access to Major Evasion.

I wouldnt be surprised if people start running spectres eye.

Ragnarock41

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.

How is my opinion biased? Do you even know what bias means? despite me using it, i am complaining about it. You must be one of those spin2win spammers thinking its balanced. If this is the case then eveyone saying the opposite would be "biased" as per your definition and that would include the majority. Show me an AOE execute with 6m radius which is undodgable and having double executive scaling. The only comparable execute is Reverse Slice, but it does not have 6m range, neither does it have double scaling. So why do you think DW should get special treatment?

Now this also proves your opinion is biased as well.

You're judging the ability based on a very rare and niche example. And here, I marked your bias in your own post. Yes I did use steel nado in some of my builds, including stamDK and stamsorc, but its not like I have class spammables or executes to use, so who are you to call me biased for using it?

Now the reason you are being very delusional and biased is because you act like its the steel nado morph that does this ''mlg 420 noscope crazy execute damage''. The AoE range difference is MASSIVE between the two morphs fyi.

Whirling blade was a useless skill for god knows how many years, now that it got some attention you're going full on bananas, and worst part is, I don't even know why? Have you actually tried this skill? Do you know how tiny the AoE is?

Hence proved. Let me tell you what bias means. Bias in the context of this topic means you are using the said skill and stating its not overpowered where as majority says the exact opposite. So again, Reverse Slice does not have double scaling, scaling does not start at 99% HP, nor does it have 6m range. Why should this skill get an increased range? Do you know why it was called Spin2Win in the first place? why would you repeat the same mistake?

The double scaling you speak of comes from DW passives, not the actual ability. With your logic we should treat every DW ability as an execute. As for reverse slice vs whirling blades, RS cost is much , much cheaper. And 2H passives have been lackluster for a long time.

Its the reverse slice that needs buff in this case because its mathematically inferior to other executes when it comes to damage.

That is not true. DW has some of the best passives on the game. Why do you think meta for 5 years has been DW as main damage bis weapon? Steel tornado has been over performing since launch of the game.

So their solution is to buff a move by 50% damage and say it's okay because it has a smaller radius?

Double daggers have been the meta for how long because of crit and execute passive.

So again in pve 2h couldn't beat it out. So sorry to say it but this move needs a Nerf so it's not repeated all over again with a new morph.

In pvp Zerg groups just got stronger too. Sure they lost some radius but the got 50% more damage........ If there is 20+ people using an aoe execute chances are people are dying fast. It proved to work already and now they got 50% stronger......

The last thing that makes this move so great is the fact you don't have to aim. You can swing wildly with it in any direction and hit where other moves that are not performing like this feel much weaker than spin2win.

Wrong. Steel tornado wasn't used by anyone till they made it undodgeable.

As for ''zerg groups got stronger'' argument, That is false. AoEs actually favour outnumbered groups, ever since they removed AoE caps. So your good old classic ''this is a zerg buff'' argument does not really apply in this case.

Steel tornado has been the "meta" Stam build since 2014.......... We are now in 2019 I call that over performing and if you don't then there is a problem with your logic.

As far as you saying it is a buff to non Zerg groups which is true. But let me ask you what do you think is going to win, 5 people using whirling blades against 30 or 30 using whirling blades against 5?

And you still think it helps non Zerg groups? Idk if we are playing the same game lol

I'm pretty sure steel tornado or whirlwind hasn't been meta ever since it was nerfed. With the recent increase in rollerblades and the ability being undodgeable with a huge radius it was no suprise steel nado became meta.

As far as 2h vs dual wield goes, 2h was the meta PvP weapon for a really, really long time, till they started heavily nerfing the playstyle of 2 hander, with nerfs to forward momentum, crit rush, stampede, the summerset LA-HA changes. All nerfs with no compensation, and the 2h playstyle really favours heavy attacking to hide animations such as uppercut-crit rush, while also taking advantage of follow up passive. So the HA nerf did hurt obviously. DW heavies were also nerfed but it was 2h that took the biggest hit.

Dual wield on the other hand, while being always meta in PvE, It was never really good for PvP, till they buffed bleeds, heavily nerfed penetration for stamina, and also buffed master dual wield. The only thing steel tornado buff changed was DW was now a front bar weapon instead of back bar, since at that point 2h was no longer what it used to be, and steel nado was far more reliable than uppercut or cleave could ever hope to be.

I've been using steel tornado against EP zergs in sotha for about 2 months now, and yes it is a great tool for killing zergs. I'm not worried about zergs using it against me because when you have the number advantage, it does not matter if you use single target or AoE. Anything can be a great Xv1 tool in this game, question is , is it also good when the opposite is the case.

If anything I'm paying far more attention to snipes out of nowhere that hit me for 10k each with a major defile, or all those snare spamming wardens that can permaslow me, or worse, all the chain-fighters bow spammers that use it to pull you to their zergs, or the 40k hp Dks that do nothing but spam petrify or reverb on you, while getting healed by their 30k hp magplar buddies.

Powerful AoEs are great equalizers, it doesn't matter who has the higher numbers when AoEs are talking, at least not as much as when single target skills are in play. However powerful ST skills , especially the ranged ones that can hit from 40 meters, are a different story.

Its clear that you don't struggle against zergs on a daily basis and I do not blame you, but don't act like you know it all. Cause you don't. And I'm not implying I'm a know it all, but I definitely do know what to fear when fighting a zerg. And its definitely not spin to win.

Savos_Saren

Did you guys see that ZOS made an AOE execute on the destro staff line? Impulse now does 100% more damage based on the percentage of their missing health AND they added a passive that increases destro staff abilities by 20% against targets with less than 25% health!

Just kidding. FML.

Arcanasx

x

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Did you guys see that ZOS made an AOE execute on the destro staff line? Impulse now does 100% more damage based on the percentage of their missing health AND they added a passive that increases destro staff abilities by 20% against targets with less than 25% health!

Just kidding. FML.

It can also be cast from 28m + away remotely too! And proc status effects!

russelmmendoza

Arcanasx wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Arcanasx But have you taken a look at the tooltip values for brawler? Ive had it where its tooltip damage was over 9k, plus a 10k shield on top of that, against a single target. AOE. Damage. With. Large Shield. As. Spammable.

how are you getting a 10k ward from brawler? my stamplar dps has a 5k at base. with one target that is is 7.5k, see here-



you also lose out on a bleed if you use brawler.

You can get a higher shield value with higher weapon damage, and theres also that shield boost CP to consider as well. Honestly with a shield that high, brawler will be the better morph for most PvP scenarios that I can think of. The carve morph would generally be better for PvE scenarios, except perhaps vMA where the shield would help quite a lot.

I will also add that Carve looks like it should work as a fire and forget, refresh when duration has expired, while brawler is to be used as an actual spammable.

yes, i understand that you get a higher ward with more weapon damage, i ought to point out you get that with max stam too, the ward takes both into account but this is a stam dps, i have almost 4k base weapon damage(no buffs eg major/minor brutality) and around 35k stam. could you link a screen on your 10k ward?

Approximately 5280 weapon damage, 32.3k max stamina, with 16% shield boost from CP.

Now imagine in a BG; even with lower stats if you're using the masters two handed set and hitting say, 4 players, you can see how tremendously strong this skill is. This is in my opinion potentially much stronger in most PvP scenarios than the PTS whirling blades.

Please post your build pics or videos on how did you get that high.

GeorgeBlack

I find it hilarious that we have so many AoE problems yet whirling blades is the AoE problem that needs to be nerfed with it's tiny radius.
There are a ton on no effort point blank spams that make eso pvp 1.01 including the old steelnado yet a valid spammable in DW needs to be removed.
I would rather see Master DW removed from the game than Whirling Blades. The bleed is terrible.


It's like like we dont have OP abilities that will screw you if you happen to be on low HP. Whirling blades ladies and gents. 6m Radius

techprince

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I find it hilarious that we have so many AoE problems yet whirling blades is the AoE problem that needs to be nerfed with it's tiny radius.
There are a ton on no effort point blank spams that make eso pvp 1.01 including the old steelnado yet a valid spammable in DW needs to be removed.
I would rather see Master DW removed from the game than Whirling Blades. The bleed is terrible.


It's like like we dont have OP abilities that will screw you if you happen to be on low HP. Whirling blades ladies and gents. 6m Radius

Like all the "aoe problems" are executes with double scaling right?

GeorgeBlack

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I find it hilarious that we have so many AoE problems yet whirling blades is the AoE problem that needs to be nerfed with it's tiny radius.
There are a ton on no effort point blank spams that make eso pvp 1.01 including the old steelnado yet a valid spammable in DW needs to be removed.
I would rather see Master DW removed from the game than Whirling Blades. The bleed is terrible.


It's like like we dont have OP abilities that will screw you if you happen to be on low HP. Whirling blades ladies and gents. 6m Radius

Like all the "aoe problems" are executes with double scaling right?

Powerful:
AoE heals
AoE snare DoT
AoE DoT
Cleanse
Immobilize
Dawnbreakers
Subterrainian Assault
Proc Sets
All 0 effort crown stacking, not even targeting an enemy abilities.

Now let's move to the second part of this new problem.

Executes?
For starters dont fall on low HP you will be turned to crisps before you have to worry about Whirling Blades.

Reverse Sladh AoE execute combined with a supet overloaded tool kit from Two Handed.

Incap lockdown


Let us see how Whirling Blades perform for Dual Wielders....Dont freak out yet.
Oh.. and where were you when DW needed a valid ability to feel like you could use a weapon in each hand? Because flurry is crap for 4 reasons since forever.
Where you spamming LA/Heroic/Bash while having access to top defence, gap closer, CC, defile, breach/fracture, ultygen, snare, reflect, invisibility (Wings/Magma Armor theft).

Arcanasx

Those who have sowed salt to the tornado, shall reap the whirling blades! On a more serious note, if you think whirling blades is going to be too much for PvP, well you're going to be in for a big shock when people start using the masters two hander with carve/brawler. Or the Asylum's bow with bombard/acid spray from range. Turns out that with AOE buffs across the board there's going to be many other powerful strategies, but the whirling blade alarmists will tunnel vision and keep saying the end is nigh and we can save the day by nerfing whirling blades into the ground without touching the other AOEs.

You could reduce the health based execute from a maximum of 100% to 50% instead, mostly for the sake of PvE, but you'll also have to tweak the other AOEs as well to keep them in line. If you go on the PTS, be sure to check those numerical values of the AOE abilities out and see what else they offer. One example, without the masters two hander the base damage and shield you get together when hitting at least one target will add up to be more than the base (and scaling) damage you can do with whirling blades up until the target is around 15% hp.

You ever find yourself beating on a shield spamming sorc and get frustrated at why they just won't die? Turns out that shields are in fact incredibly useful. Especially if they're big ones tied to offensive abilities. And that's just brawler, with carve you can use that to do some damage and dot someone up for a good amount and focus on using another spammable damage ability while those bleed ticks hit. Same with acid spray which is also being buffed. Whirling blades with its 6m radius will require you to be on top of your target (don't forget about the problems inherent with latency) and offers no utility for survivability. Brawler has the potential to give you strong, spammable shields that will help you to stay alive. Acid spray can be used more safely against melee focused targets up to 20m away.

And for anyone that doesn't realize, with damage ticks that happen after 2 seconds after a direct hit, you just have to use a LA and one other ability in between uses to not override that first tick, if you want to be able to "spam" dot focused abilities. For example, you can do "LA>Obnoxious Breath>LA>Carve, repeat" and get the first tick from both dots. There's a lot to consider here with the AOE buffs but this post is already long enough.

Edit: Grammar.

techprince

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I find it hilarious that we have so many AoE problems yet whirling blades is the AoE problem that needs to be nerfed with it's tiny radius.
There are a ton on no effort point blank spams that make eso pvp 1.01 including the old steelnado yet a valid spammable in DW needs to be removed.
I would rather see Master DW removed from the game than Whirling Blades. The bleed is terrible.


It's like like we dont have OP abilities that will screw you if you happen to be on low HP. Whirling blades ladies and gents. 6m Radius

Like all the "aoe problems" are executes with double scaling right?

Powerful:
AoE heals
AoE snare DoT
AoE DoT
Cleanse
Immobilize
Dawnbreakers
Subterrainian Assault
Proc Sets
All 0 effort crown stacking, not even targeting an enemy abilities.

Now let's move to the second part of this new problem.

Executes?
For starters dont fall on low HP you will be turned to crisps before you have to worry about Whirling Blades.

Reverse Sladh AoE execute combined with a supet overloaded tool kit from Two Handed.

Incap lockdown


Let us see how Whirling Blades perform for Dual Wielders....Dont freak out yet.
Oh.. and where were you when DW needed a valid ability to feel like you could use a weapon in each hand? Because flurry is crap for 4 reasons since forever.
Where you spamming LA/Heroic/Bash while having access to top defence, gap closer, CC, defile, breach/fracture, ultygen, snare, reflect, invisibility (Wings/Magma Armor theft).

You literally listed everything but executes. And implying spintowin requires efforts.. Lol.

By stating, "dont fall on low hp" proves you haven't pvp'ed in this game at all.

Super overloaded kit in 2h? wut? do you even play this game?

Didn't you say 2H was overloaded and now you are listing 1HS abilities, nightblade and dk? Are you high?

GeorgeBlack

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I find it hilarious that we have so many AoE problems yet whirling blades is the AoE problem that needs to be nerfed with it's tiny radius.
There are a ton on no effort point blank spams that make eso pvp 1.01 including the old steelnado yet a valid spammable in DW needs to be removed.
I would rather see Master DW removed from the game than Whirling Blades. The bleed is terrible.


It's like like we dont have OP abilities that will screw you if you happen to be on low HP. Whirling blades ladies and gents. 6m Radius

Like all the "aoe problems" are executes with double scaling right?

Powerful:
AoE heals
AoE snare DoT
AoE DoT
Cleanse
Immobilize
Dawnbreakers
Subterrainian Assault
Proc Sets
All 0 effort crown stacking, not even targeting an enemy abilities.

Now let's move to the second part of this new problem.

Executes?
For starters dont fall on low HP you will be turned to crisps before you have to worry about Whirling Blades.

Reverse Sladh AoE execute combined with a supet overloaded tool kit from Two Handed.

Incap lockdown


Let us see how Whirling Blades perform for Dual Wielders....Dont freak out yet.
Oh.. and where were you when DW needed a valid ability to feel like you could use a weapon in each hand? Because flurry is crap for 4 reasons since forever.
Where you spamming LA/Heroic/Bash while having access to top defence, gap closer, CC, defile, breach/fracture, ultygen, snare, reflect, invisibility (Wings/Magma Armor theft).

You literally listed everything but executes. And implying spintowin requires efforts.. Lol.

By stating, "dont fall on low hp" proves you haven't pvp'ed in this game at all.

Super overloaded kit in 2h? wut? do you even play this game?

Didn't you say 2H was overloaded and now you are listing 1HS abilities, nightblade and dk? Are you high?

Your reading abilities need lv up.
But hey. Whirling Blades will be the problem.

techprince

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I find it hilarious that we have so many AoE problems yet whirling blades is the AoE problem that needs to be nerfed with it's tiny radius.
There are a ton on no effort point blank spams that make eso pvp 1.01 including the old steelnado yet a valid spammable in DW needs to be removed.
I would rather see Master DW removed from the game than Whirling Blades. The bleed is terrible.


It's like like we dont have OP abilities that will screw you if you happen to be on low HP. Whirling blades ladies and gents. 6m Radius

Like all the "aoe problems" are executes with double scaling right?

Powerful:
AoE heals
AoE snare DoT
AoE DoT
Cleanse
Immobilize
Dawnbreakers
Subterrainian Assault
Proc Sets
All 0 effort crown stacking, not even targeting an enemy abilities.

Now let's move to the second part of this new problem.

Executes?
For starters dont fall on low HP you will be turned to crisps before you have to worry about Whirling Blades.

Reverse Sladh AoE execute combined with a supet overloaded tool kit from Two Handed.

Incap lockdown


Let us see how Whirling Blades perform for Dual Wielders....Dont freak out yet.
Oh.. and where were you when DW needed a valid ability to feel like you could use a weapon in each hand? Because flurry is crap for 4 reasons since forever.
Where you spamming LA/Heroic/Bash while having access to top defence, gap closer, CC, defile, breach/fracture, ultygen, snare, reflect, invisibility (Wings/Magma Armor theft).

You literally listed everything but executes. And implying spintowin requires efforts.. Lol.

By stating, "dont fall on low hp" proves you haven't pvp'ed in this game at all.

Super overloaded kit in 2h? wut? do you even play this game?

Didn't you say 2H was overloaded and now you are listing 1HS abilities, nightblade and dk? Are you high?

Your reading abilities need lv up.
But hey. Whirling Blades will be the problem.

Your typing abilities need power leveling. Invisibility, Wings, Magma? Thanks for the laugh.