Whirling Blades

Waffennacht

I think with the buff to roll dodge (gaining immunity to roots for 4 sec) AoEs are necessarily being buffed to actually kill someone

Joosef_Kivikilpi

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

Didn't even think about corrosive... My goodness... This is going to be a while new level of cancer in PvP.

Arcanasx

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

Didn't even think about corrosive... My goodness... This is going to be a while new level of cancer in PvP.

I'm going to try brawler with master's two handed weapon, with corrosive. They're going to wish it was whirling blades.

SupremeRissole

As someone who uses S2W a lot I think it simply needed a range reduction from how it is currently on live. It already does enough damage, it already costs a lot, its already very powerful and even I'll say it's OP. But looking at the changes to whirling on pts on paper at least it seems youd be stupid not to run it XD

wheem_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

I think with the buff to roll dodge (gaining immunity to roots for 4 sec) AoEs are necessarily being buffed to actually kill someone

Then where are the Magicka AOE buffs? No one's going to be "spamming" Wall of Elements and hitting each target for the sort of damage than Stamina AOEs are doing. In the first week of PTS I saw an up-front Cleave hit for a little over 4.3k damage, and the same guy's Cleave-bleed was ticking for ~1.5k (numbers from no-CP Battlegrounds). Wall of Elements would need 4-5 seconds of its 8 second duration to match just the first up-front hit, not even counting the bleed portion (or the Heavy Weapons bleed that it can proc).

I personally think ZOS might have gone a little overboard with the snare/root immunity, which I was afraid of. With BGs no longer happening on PTS, though, it's hard to say for sure. A few snare % being toned down and the new mechanic of receiving some root immunity after one wears off would probably have been enough. But yea the AOE damage for Stam builds is definitely going to be over the top if it goes live as-is.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Then where are the Magicka AOE buffs?

Drain Power: Increased the damage of this ability and the Sap Essence morph by 25% to adhere it to our PBAoE damage standards. Ability and Sap Essence now grant Major Sorcery, rather than Brutality, to better represent the scaling mechanisms the skills use.

my tooltips on my magblade dps from the pts-







these magic aoes do around the same damage as Stam aoes, at base, it is just the double scaling executes on whirling blades is going to make that skill do so much more damage.

No one's going to be "spamming" Wall of Elements and hitting each target for the sort of damage than Stamina AOEs are doing. In the first week of PTS I saw an up-front Cleave hit for a little over 4.3k damage, and the same guy's Cleave-bleed was ticking for ~1.5k (numbers from no-CP Battlegrounds). Wall of Elements would need 4-5 seconds of its 8 second duration to match just the first up-front hit, not even counting the bleed portion (or the Heavy Weapons bleed that it can proc).

wall is the equivalent of endless hail, not whirling blades, impulse and sap essence are the equivalent.

Sarousse

Ok I did further testing and the 10k value listed above is in PvE.

I'm reaching 12k shields in PvE.

The tooltip is halved in PvP, I barely get 6k when everything is up, which is not bad, but as a stamsorc I prefed the bleed morph, with my 2h master axe it's much more effective to fight stacked zergs.

DokThor90

Sarousse wrote: »

Ok I did further testing and the 10k value listed above is in PvE.

I'm reaching 12k shields in PvE.

The tooltip is halved in PvP, I barely get 6k when everything is up, which is not bad, but as a stamsorc I prefed the bleed morph, with my 2h master axe it's much more effective to fight stacked zergs.

Keep in mimd that the first bleed tick will do damage after around 2seconds and overwrites, so e.g. If u spam it 2-3x in a row, U will start benefit from ur last brawler after 2sec.

Im as stamsorc will go for brawler (also have master 2h Mace) with Alchemist + immovable potion and Just 2x brawler - DB - 2x brawler in my 1vX fights, then Kite until next potion. Just what I do now, but with more dmg/defense.

Brawler cant be dodged either, right?(If u would Hit the target ofc)

wheem_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

wall is the equivalent of endless hail, not whirling blades, impulse and sap essence are the equivalent.

Sap Essence is available to one class, and the only time I've ever ran into Impulse on live was against a guy that was running the Black Rose Prison Destro Staff, which really wasn't very impressive. The ability also didn't get any buffs this patch, so far as I can tell.

Anyway, my main point is that Stamina builds get access to the overpowered AOE damage, but Magicka really doesn't. The previously posted tooltips from Stam builds are substantially higher than yours, and I was told by the guy that hit me that his Cleave tooltip damage was ~10k up front and ~15k bleed. You'd need to increase your 6,214 Elemental Ring tooltip by ~65% just to match his up front Cleave tooltip.

I'd personally rather they reduce AOE damage across the board - even Wall of Elements if necessary - rather than giving everyone AOE spammables that are competitive with single target spammables, even when only hitting one target. But if they're going to leave the game in that state, it doesn't need to be only Stamina that benefits from it.

Sarousse wrote: »

Ok I did further testing and the 10k value listed above is in PvE.

I'm reaching 12k shields in PvE.

The tooltip is halved in PvP, I barely get 6k when everything is up, which is not bad, but as a stamsorc I prefed the bleed morph, with my 2h master axe it's much more effective to fight stacked zergs.

Is that 6k shield in CP-PvP, or no-CP? If it's the former, what value do you get in Cyrodiil with your Champion Points reset? If you're able to get anywhere near 6k in no-CP, attached to an ability that can do that sort of damage, that's...wow. I mean a 6k shield is actually a really good number for Harness Magicka in BGs, and you have to back off of your offensive pressure in order to cast it.

Feanor

I’d just like to know why this game needs an AoE execute at all. High damage should be single target.

Arcanasx

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

wall is the equivalent of endless hail, not whirling blades, impulse and sap essence are the equivalent.

Sap Essence is available to one class, and the only time I've ever ran into Impulse on live was against a guy that was running the Black Rose Prison Destro Staff, which really wasn't very impressive. The ability also didn't get any buffs this patch, so far as I can tell.

Anyway, my main point is that Stamina builds get access to the overpowered AOE damage, but Magicka really doesn't. The previously posted tooltips from Stam builds are substantially higher than yours, and I was told by the guy that hit me that his Cleave tooltip damage was ~10k up front and ~15k bleed. You'd need to increase your 6,214 Elemental Ring tooltip by ~65% just to match his up front Cleave tooltip.

I'd personally rather they reduce AOE damage across the board - even Wall of Elements if necessary - rather than giving everyone AOE spammables that are competitive with single target spammables, even when only hitting one target. But if they're going to leave the game in that state, it doesn't need to be only Stamina that benefits from it.

Sarousse wrote: »

Ok I did further testing and the 10k value listed above is in PvE.

I'm reaching 12k shields in PvE.

The tooltip is halved in PvP, I barely get 6k when everything is up, which is not bad, but as a stamsorc I prefed the bleed morph, with my 2h master axe it's much more effective to fight stacked zergs.

Is that 6k shield in CP-PvP, or no-CP? If it's the former, what value do you get in Cyrodiil with your Champion Points reset? If you're able to get anywhere near 6k in no-CP, attached to an ability that can do that sort of damage, that's...wow. I mean a 6k shield is actually a really good number for Harness Magicka in BGs, and you have to back off of your offensive pressure in order to cast it.

That would have to be with CP. But even a shield value that's around 4k in no-cp would still be strong, especially since it would be tied to an offensive AOE ability that you can spam, where the shield increases the more targets you hit. A lot of people are freaking out about whirling blades but they seemingly cannot comprehend the tremendous potential of the buffed brawler ability, especially for PvP. Combine this with hots such as vigor and FM and you'll be getting great survivability.

As for the magicka AOEs not doing as much damage as the stamina ones, I think that's because stamina builds generally have a greater sum of weapon damage/max stamina than magicka builds have of spell damage/max magicka, rather than the magicka abilities arbitrarily just having a lower scaling. But maybe I'm wrong about that. It could also be that the "balance" is for example that wall of elements can proc elemental effects that stamina AOEs cannot, and impulse could be used much further away (PvP in particular) than stamina AOES.

Although I'm of the opinion that there probably should be more tweaking of these AOEs before they hit live.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

. Sap Essence is available to one class,

Who also have the only in class Stam PBAoE, power extraction.

.the only time I've ever ran into Impulse on live was against a guy that was running the Black Rose Prison Destro Staff

So?

. The ability also didn't get any buffs this patch, so far as I can tell.

That is because it is already on par with whirlwinds base damage, when stats are the same.

. Anyway, my main point is that Stamina builds get access to the overpowered AOE damage, but Magicka really doesn't. The previously posted tooltips from Stam builds are substantially higher than yours, and I was told by the guy that hit me that his Cleave tooltip damage was ~10k up front and ~15k bleed. You'd need to increase your 6,214 Elemental Ring tooltip by ~65% just to match his up front Cleave tooltip.

All of my Tooltips are base stats, as what they are when I log in. They are not buffed. If I went ahead and buffed up with all the regular stuff, major sorcery, Minor berzerk, minor sorcery, etc etc, like that guy with the cleave tooltip did, it would be much higher. I do this for easy comparison between the live versions of my toons and the pts versions. For the record, my magblade has ~40k max magic and only like 1,850 spell damage in that picture, because I use scathing mage/mothers sorrow and the shadow mundus.


Literally the only reason whirling blades does more damage then say, elemental ring, is because of the double scaling execute. Take that away, with the same stats, eg, same 35k max magic/Stam and 3k spell/weapon damage, the damage would be the around the same. If you don't see that, you don't see how the game works.

Cleave is not PBAoE. It is a conal AOE. It only hits targets in front of you. Reverse slice is the PBAoE of the 2h line. Cleave is closer to sweeps/jabs in function.



because you seem to like big numbers, i went on the pts and buffed myself up as best i could, missing minor berzerk, major courge, minor sorcery, being on a dark elf/high elf instead of a breton, etc etc, i couldn't figure out how to get one of those fancy new atro dummies but this is still pretty good with what i had on my toons-

SodanTok

Feanor wrote: »

I’d just like to know why this game needs an AoE execute at all. High damage should be single target.

Because people like it. It is quite smart way of doing it. In steel tornado you have skill every stamina player likes, because it does everything they need and has no disadvantges of all the tools they could use instead of it. It enables strong AoE potential stam players lacked, something very much wanted in 1vX of BGs. It has execute to finish off all those pesky nightblades nobody likes playing against (not even nightblades themself). You dont have to bother about the annoying things like aiming so its also good tool to finish off those pesky petsorcs hiding with pets or just generally all those people that survive on low health by kiting you or hiding. Nobody likes people that survive.

It is also amazing potato killing tool. You wont find easier and more potent tool than just DB into steel tornado spam against average pve Joe. And nobody likes potatoes, or zerglings or pve players.
It is also good as spammable and execute so you are saving skill slots for more buffs or supportive abilities so you can enhance your survival or your damage output. Again, everyone likes to use as little skills as possible in their 'burst window'.
Now in PVE, everyone likes the most damaging ability, so if this is doing most damage and also works so well in AoE you dont have to bother swapping skills or perform little slower in AoE situations you are just loving this.

It also helps that the ability isnt as much antiMag to make them complain en mass. It being AoE, undodgeable, melee and execute, average mag person with shield to pop/spam in execute range and not really keen on much dodging can barely care its being used over other abilities. Quiote opposite, the worst thing about this ability for average mag build is they dont have any like that and they very much want to.

So more people are happy than not, and those unhappy arent unhappy as much to complain too much (yet).

juhislihis19

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

Didn't even think about corrosive... My goodness... This is going to be a while new level of cancer in PvP.

Which is funny because in the past 18 months I've played, I've NEVER seen anyone use Corrosive Armor.. So seeing a group of sDK's in Corrosive spamming Whirling, would be truly unique sight!

But just imagine few Wardens in a group, all spamming Permafrost one at a time, Sub Assaults and Dawnbreakers! No, wait a second..

wheem_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

.the only time I've ever ran into Impulse on live was against a guy that was running the Black Rose Prison Destro Staff

So?

I thought it was obvious? If Impulse wasn't trash, it'd actually be getting used. Spin-to-Win is probably one of the most widely used skills in the game, and has been for quite some time, yet it got a damage buff while still keeping an execute mechanic on one morph (plus the passive execute mechanic).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

because you seem to like big numbers, i went on the pts and buffed myself up as best i could, missing minor berzerk, major courge, minor sorcery, being on a dark elf/high elf instead of a breton, etc etc, i couldn't figure out how to get one of those fancy new atro dummies but this is still pretty good with what i had on my toons-

It has nothing to do with "liking big numbers," and everything to do with what numbers can be realistically achieved with viable PvP builds. I don't know that I've ever been hit with an instant, single target spammable for 4.3k in a Battleground, but I know that Cleave can hit that hard (plus the following bleed DOT, along with the possibility to proc a second bleed) on a build that isn't trash. When you take into account the bleed(s), and the fact that it's AOE (notice that I never said PBAOE), that's simply too much damage. I'd say the same thing about a Whirling Blades for > 4k when it isn't even the final hit (and 6.6k when it was), especially when that same player's bleed ticks were actually fairly weak.

I'll walk back my statements about how this is mostly something that's overpowering Stamina, rather than everyone, when there are viable Magicka builds getting the same sort of damage from Impulse.

Edit:
Even if Impulse was truly comparable in a practical sense - and it isn't - Stamina would still have the advantage of easy access to Major Evasion, which isn't true for Magicka builds as a whole.

hedna123b14_ESO

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

There was Lico's rotation on stamDK which self-explains everything. Starting from 85% he starts using whirling blades as a spammable. AOE. Execute. As. Spammable. At 85%. What other arguments are needed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UakXKgngwPo

Its a high cost skill, that cant be sustained as a spammable unless you have Godly support and short fights, which may work for me, but not for 99% of the players.

Davadin

DokThor90 wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Ok I did further testing and the 10k value listed above is in PvE.

I'm reaching 12k shields in PvE.

The tooltip is halved in PvP, I barely get 6k when everything is up, which is not bad, but as a stamsorc I prefed the bleed morph, with my 2h master axe it's much more effective to fight stacked zergs.

Keep in mimd that the first bleed tick will do damage after around 2seconds and overwrites, so e.g. If u spam it 2-3x in a row, U will start benefit from ur last brawler after 2sec.

yeah but with a Master 2H, u'll be hitting like a truck anyway. the bleed is just bonus. stamDK here and i'll be opting for Carve. More often than not, it's a fire-and-forget, but if i need to go berserk on a group of people tight together, Carve is amazing.

again, who knows in live, might go brawler.

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

Didn't even think about corrosive... My goodness... This is going to be a while new level of cancer in PvP.

Which is funny because in the past 18 months I've played, I've NEVER seen anyone use Corrosive Armor.. So seeing a group of sDK's in Corrosive spamming Whirling, would be truly unique sight!

But just imagine few Wardens in a group, all spamming Permafrost one at a time, Sub Assaults and Dawnbreakers! No, wait a second..

LOL I see what u did there.... yes... Corrosive is too damn expensive, that's why. In Cyro, Psijic 8% dmg reduction is too good, or u go Leap+Dawnbreaker. Corrosive is good on paper and on dueling, but that's about it.

I'll just take a 2x maul for penetration and leap on them when i'm out of stamina......

Feanor wrote: »

I’d just like to know why this game needs an AoE execute at all. High damage should be single target.

there. this is it.

there should not be any EXECUTE on an AOE skill. period.

hedna123b14_ESO

Arcanasx wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

There was Lico's rotation on stamDK which self-explains everything. Starting from 85% he starts using whirling blades as a spammable. AOE. Execute. As. Spammable. At 85%. What other arguments are needed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UakXKgngwPo

This shows that whirling blades is very strong against high health stationary target dummy's that don't fight back, but there's a lot more to this game than that. Yes I'm sure it will be strong skill for a stam dps for dungeons/trials as the execute mechanic allows you to squeeze in a lot of extra damage from large boss health pools, and it will be a good pvp skill too.

But have you taken a look at the tooltip values for brawler? Ive had it where its tooltip damage was over 9k, plus a 10k shield on top of that, against a single target. AOE. Damage. With. Large Shield. As. Spammable.

In a pvp scenario, I could use this offensive AOE every second, which also would give me a 5k shield every second, after battle spirit. And that's just against one player. Now imagine having your vigor, forward momentum, and other Hots, having high resistances, maybe even troll king on top. And there's also that masters two handed weapon to consider as well.

I'm just seeing more tunnel vision from whirling blades alarmists being irrational wanting to specifically nerf that one ability without seeing the bigger picture. If whirling blades is over performing, so are other AOEs. And to try and get whirling blades nerfed while ignoring the power of other AOEs and not considering ALL SCENARIOS is a very bad idea. That's my argument.

For AoE Brawler + Master GreatSword = GG

ChunkyCat

SodanTok wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I’d just like to know why this game needs an AoE execute at all. High damage should be single target.

Because people like it. It is quite smart way of doing it. In steel tornado you have skill every stamina player likes, because it does everything they need and has no disadvantges of all the tools they could use instead of it. It enables strong AoE potential stam players lacked, something very much wanted in 1vX of BGs. It has execute to finish off all those pesky nightblades nobody likes playing against (not even nightblades themself). You dont have to bother about the annoying things like aiming so its also good tool to finish off those pesky petsorcs hiding with pets or just generally all those people that survive on low health by kiting you or hiding. Nobody likes people that survive.

It is also amazing potato killing tool. You wont find easier and more potent tool than just DB into steel tornado spam against average pve Joe. And nobody likes potatoes, or zerglings or pve players.
It is also good as spammable and execute so you are saving skill slots for more buffs or supportive abilities so you can enhance your survival or your damage output. Again, everyone likes to use as little skills as possible in their 'burst window'.
Now in PVE, everyone likes the most damaging ability, so if this is doing most damage and also works so well in AoE you dont have to bother swapping skills or perform little slower in AoE situations you are just loving this.

It also helps that the ability isnt as much antiMag to make them complain en mass. It being AoE, undodgeable, melee and execute, average mag person with shield to pop/spam in execute range and not really keen on much dodging can barely care its being used over other abilities. Quiote opposite, the worst thing about this ability for average mag build is they dont have any like that and they very much want to.

So more people are happy than not, and those unhappy arent unhappy as much to complain too much (yet).

olsborg

Who rly wants to drag their gamertag through the dirty by spamming spin2win? .....oh wait🤢

Feanor

@SodanTok

Well, people love oneshotting others too. Does that mean we should introduce more of these because it’s convenient and easy?

glavius

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

everyone is talking about whirling blades and steel tornado but have you guys seen the tooltip on power extraction? here mine on the pts with no buffs.



and whirling blades/steel tornado



power extraction is crazy.

here is surprise attack on that same toon-



why would anyone use surprise attack instead of power extraction now?

Power extraction is dodgeable which is a huge disadvantage compared to whirling blades. Also, actual damage is alot lower when you account for the execute and dw passives (whirling blades actual damage would be 10266 vs a 50% hp left target, and a whopping 16261 damage vs a 24% hp target that is stunned)

But in general, yea, why would anyone ever use single target abilities again if this buff goes live. Surprise attack is pretty much the best single target spammable there is, and is now rivalled in single target damage by alot of the AoE's.

Puncture, flurry, low slash and similar abilities were already quite abit worse than surprise attack. Now there will be no reason to use them as damaging abilities anymore.

Rikumaru

glavius wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

everyone is talking about whirling blades and steel tornado but have you guys seen the tooltip on power extraction? here mine on the pts with no buffs.



and whirling blades/steel tornado



power extraction is crazy.

here is surprise attack on that same toon-



why would anyone use surprise attack instead of power extraction now?

Power extraction is dodgeable which is a huge disadvantage compared to whirling blades. Also, actual damage is alot lower when you account for the execute and dw passives (whirling blades actual damage would be 10266 vs a 50% hp left target, and a whopping 16261 damage vs a 24% hp target that is stunned)

But in general, yea, why would anyone ever use single target abilities again if this buff goes live. Surprise attack is pretty much the best single target spammable there is, and is now rivalled in single target damage by alot of the AoE's.

Puncture, flurry, low slash and similar abilities were already quite abit worse than surprise attack. Now there will be no reason to use them as damaging abilities anymore.

Power extraction being dodgeable sounds like a bug. As for SA, it's gone from the best spammable in the game for PvP to a pretty mediocre / weak one. Any good spammable has reliable utility / secondary effects attached to it and SA doesn't have any of that (outside of shadow passive which you can easily get a 100% uptime using a 5-2 medium build with the 2 being heavy).

glavius

Rikumaru wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

everyone is talking about whirling blades and steel tornado but have you guys seen the tooltip on power extraction? here mine on the pts with no buffs.



and whirling blades/steel tornado



power extraction is crazy.

here is surprise attack on that same toon-



why would anyone use surprise attack instead of power extraction now?

Power extraction is dodgeable which is a huge disadvantage compared to whirling blades. Also, actual damage is alot lower when you account for the execute and dw passives (whirling blades actual damage would be 10266 vs a 50% hp left target, and a whopping 16261 damage vs a 24% hp target that is stunned)

But in general, yea, why would anyone ever use single target abilities again if this buff goes live. Surprise attack is pretty much the best single target spammable there is, and is now rivalled in single target damage by alot of the AoE's.

Puncture, flurry, low slash and similar abilities were already quite abit worse than surprise attack. Now there will be no reason to use them as damaging abilities anymore.

Power extraction being dodgeable sounds like a bug. As for SA, it's gone from the best spammable in the game for PvP to a pretty mediocre / weak one. Any good spammable has reliable utility / secondary effects attached to it and SA doesn't have any of that (outside of shadow passive which you can easily get a 100% uptime using a 5-2 medium build with the 2 being heavy).

Yea it's a bug, but one they don't care to fix, making it a game feature.
While Surprise Attack did loose important utility, it still has alot higher tooltip damage than other single target spammables. And 100% shadow barrier uptime on a 5-2 medium build is far from easy. It requires on average 1140 magicka recovery, only 108 of which is being supplied by constitution passive.

JinMori

Id say make this ability scale from 25 %, if it;s still too strong nerf the damage.

Its just a bit insane, this skill.

Davadin

JinMori wrote: »

Id say make this ability scale from 25 %, if it;s still too strong nerf the damage.

Its just a bit insane, this skill.

i'm taking it off my slot in PTS. Tornado doesn't have execute, so im hitting 6-7k instead of 4-5k, with 100% increase execution.


maybe i'll do the other morph which still has execute at 6m, considering my DK Leap is 6.5m and now has a snare...


Leap + spin spin.

but for now it's better to have flurry spammable and rending DoT.

kookster

Agree with OP.

WilliamofSomeRenown

From my testing on the pts, whirling blades will hit hard than any other single target spammable in the game from an ungodly high percentage (generally 75% but on some classes as high as 95%). I'd love to use a master 2h next patch but the problem is it only scales well against groups. In a single target situation whirling blades will out damage carve or brawler because of the execute scaling and in aoe situations, whirling blades will be easier (because it's a 360 degree radius instead of a 180 degree cone) and hits harder from a reasonable mid-range point that a well-coordinated ult dump will be more than enough to kill everyone it hits without counterplay. It's hard for me to make an argument for not using whirling blades next patch. If this change goes live I will swap my morph and be using it exclusively, which is a shame because the carve and brawlers changes really do interest me.

I do agree that whirling blades needs a nerf before going live. If it were me, I would only buff the base damage to a point where the execute is significant but not overpowered on whirling blades specifically (maybe 10-20%? from live). That way you have to choose between consistent damage with a larger radius with steel tornado or more damage in execute range with whirling blades. Not sure the cost is relevant from a pvp perspective but if I were making that change, I'd likely make the execute the cheaper option so that the choice is cheaper+execute or larger radius+consistent damage. The range on whirling blades feels good and I don't think it needs to be reverted.

Arcanasx

WilliamofSomeRenown wrote: »

From my testing on the pts, whirling blades will hit hard than any other single target spammable in the game from an ungodly high percentage (generally 75% but on some classes as high as 95%). I'd love to use a master 2h next patch but the problem is it only scales well against groups. In a single target situation whirling blades will out damage carve or brawler because of the execute scaling and in aoe situations, whirling blades will be easier (because it's a 360 degree radius instead of a 180 degree cone) and hits harder from a reasonable mid-range point that a well-coordinated ult dump will be more than enough to kill everyone it hits without counterplay. It's hard for me to make an argument for not using whirling blades next patch. If this change goes live I will swap my morph and be using it exclusively, which is a shame because the carve and brawlers changes really do interest me.

I do agree that whirling blades needs a nerf before going live. If it were me, I would only buff the base damage to a point where the execute is significant but not overpowered on whirling blades specifically (maybe 10-20%? from live). That way you have to choose between consistent damage with a larger radius with steel tornado or more damage in execute range with whirling blades. Not sure the cost is relevant from a pvp perspective but if I were making that change, I'd likely make the execute the cheaper option so that the choice is cheaper+execute or larger radius+consistent damage. The range on whirling blades feels good and I don't think it needs to be reverted.

I would be fine if they removed the execute from whirling blades but give it something like brawler's shield instead. Would tone down its PvE damage and keep it useful for PvP.

Edit: But just nerfing the damage of whirling blades without giving it something else and not tweaking other AOEs as well wouldn't be a good idea imo; the other buffed AOEs have some incredible utility that others are unable to see apparently.

Ragnarock41

techprince wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like it.
Where were you all these years when DW needed a spammable?
People dont care to improve features. They just care to nerf things they dont use.

You won't like it when couple of stamDK's will activate corrosive armor while wearing balorghs and will spin into your ball dealing 6k+ per spin each

I am a stamDK

I would love to see something different than SnB/2h BS 7th Fury spamming Ransack/heroic/bash

That is a biased opinion. When you use it, its not a problem?

And yours is not biased? A couple of players use 200 cost ultimates on a damage build , go ham on you, and you're expecting to just sit there and heal through it? You know you can just get the heck out of their range or use a defensive ultimate.

6M is actually lower than melee range for a Dk. So if those couple of stamDks had SnB builds they would actually reach you quicker. Unlike steel tornado whirling blades actually has very small range, you can literally run away from it.

If your problem is that whirling blades has too high scaling, then that I understand. If your problem is its range or its AoE nature then I disagree.