Broken snares and immobilizations system in Elsweyr...

JusticeSouldier

"Race Against Time (morph): This morph no longer reduces the cost of sprinting by 50% for 4 seconds. Instead, it now grants immunity to Snares and Immobilizations for 4 seconds."

"All Immobilizes from player abilities and item sets will now apply Immobilization Immunity once applied, to prevent multiple Immobilizes from applying on the same target. Once an Immobilize from these abilities ends, you gain immunity to Immobilizes for 3 seconds after, similar to the Dodge Roll mechanic."

1 thing makes snares and roots completly useless if u slotted this skill. And u get major expedition and crit buff at the same time as removing snares and get immunity. I can't figure out how much alcohol consumed designer of this to get this "geanie" idea...and why anyone stopped him. It's complete imcompetenct way.
2nd one executes roots at all...

Can I ask, @ZOS_GinaBruno when u have pain the head is this a reason to cut a head to remove pain? because I don't understand, why instead of variety of counter options to snares and roots on each class separately (different ways, uniq for each class) + ordering snares to Major/Minor system...u done this...What the hell is going on?

Rikumaru

Sorry, you won't be able to zerg down players as easily anymore.

Also this skill is great, magicka players (outside of magicka sorc) finally have mobility outside of mist form, something which should have been done years ago. By far the best thing in these patch notes.

ecru

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

"Race Against Time (morph): This morph no longer reduces the cost of sprinting by 50% for 4 seconds. Instead, it now grants immunity to Snares and Immobilizations for 4 seconds."

"All Immobilizes from player abilities and item sets will now apply Immobilization Immunity once applied, to prevent multiple Immobilizes from applying on the same target. Once an Immobilize from these abilities ends, you gain immunity to Immobilizes for 3 seconds after, similar to the Dodge Roll mechanic."

1 thing makes snares and roots completly useless if u slotted this skill. And u get major expedition and crit buff at the same time as removing snares and get immunity. I can't figure out how much alcohol consumed designer of this to get this "geanie" idea...and why anyone stopped him. It's complete imcompetenct way.
2nd one executes roots at all...

Can I ask, @ZOS_GinaBruno when u have pain the head is this a reason to cut a head to remove pain? because I don't understand, why instead of variety of counter options to snares and roots on each class separately (different ways, uniq for each class) + ordering snares to Major/Minor system...u done this...What the hell is going on?

No one likes being permanently CC'd. The current snared-rooted-stunned-snared-rooted meta is completely unfun and basically garbage gameplay. They're taking steps to do something about that sort of garbage, unfun gameplay. I personally don't think they've done enough and would like to see longer immunity timers and more class abilities, sort of like you suggested, along with the change to race against time.

Short or no immunity timers on CC benefits larger groups of players vs smaller groups because multiple players can lock down one player while the rest do damage. It creates a very disadvantageous gameplay system when you're already at a disadvantage because you're outnumbered and rewards numbers over skill. They need to go further with these immunity timers, 5 seconds or longer, and remove the snare from things like templar's ritual and ice blockade, or limit them somehow. I'm personally really not satisfied with these changes--the more control we get over our characters, the better IMO, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

cpuScientist

Listen everyone!

We all hate the snare immobilize meta that's for sure. But some classes are built around it such as Templar and dk. Now this will change but 4 seconds is not as much as we think, forwards Nerf to 4 seconds made it alot harder to keep up so let's seeeeee first. However yes snare immunity and major expedition on a single skill is kind of crazy.

But let's go a patch with it first then see if it's as bad as it sounds first.

LordTareq

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

"Race Against Time (morph): This morph no longer reduces the cost of sprinting by 50% for 4 seconds. Instead, it now grants immunity to Snares and Immobilizations for 4 seconds."

"All Immobilizes from player abilities and item sets will now apply Immobilization Immunity once applied, to prevent multiple Immobilizes from applying on the same target. Once an Immobilize from these abilities ends, you gain immunity to Immobilizes for 3 seconds after, similar to the Dodge Roll mechanic."

1 thing makes snares and roots completly useless if u slotted this skill. And u get major expedition and crit buff at the same time as removing snares and get immunity. I can't figure out how much alcohol consumed designer of this to get this "geanie" idea...and why anyone stopped him. It's complete imcompetenct way.
2nd one executes roots at all...

Can I ask, @ZOS_GinaBruno when u have pain the head is this a reason to cut a head to remove pain? because I don't understand, why instead of variety of counter options to snares and roots on each class separately (different ways, uniq for each class) + ordering snares to Major/Minor system...u done this...What the hell is going on?

Are you serious? The new RAT is exactly what players have been asking for for years. Yes it requires some rethinking if you used an especially toxic build relying on snares/immobilizes (I'm switching frost staff out for fire staff) but the ability will be very healthy for the game. Also, it will sell them summerset

likecats

The next patch will probably be the best balanced patch as of yet for speed/snare.
No more ultrafast speeds, no more perma-snares. Just a bunch of regular speed guys who like to to move around in this game.

Looking forward to it.

DeadlyRecluse

If they removed snares off of existing skills and passives and made snaring other players a conscious choice that had to be made, then I'd support deleting some of the snare removal utility.

As it is, I snare people 4 different ways for free without thinking about it--those snares come free with other skills I would use anyway! With that amount of "free" snares, I don't think snare immunity should be rare or difficult to acquire--it should also come "free" with otherwise worthwhile skills.

Insco851

“Damnit I can’t spam talons and let my buddies kill everything anymore, bummer!”

Lord_Eomer

And OP thinks Forward Momentum is balance and not broken?

Stop complaining just for Magicka Skills, if this is regarding balance then both skills must take nerf together.

4 second per cast is too much immunity, it should be reduces to 2 second and cost of both skills should be increased.

Insco851

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

If they removed snares off of existing skills and passives and made snaring other players a conscious choice that had to be made, then I'd support deleting some of the snare removal utility.

As it is, I snare people 4 different ways for free without thinking about it--those snares come free with other skills I would use anyway! With that amount of "free" snares, I don't think snare immunity should be rare or difficult to acquire--it should also come "free" with otherwise worthwhile skills.

Some classes can create incredible pressure thru all their snares and cc’s. Having a counter is needed for Stam limited mag classes

DeadlyRecluse

Insco851 wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

If they removed snares off of existing skills and passives and made snaring other players a conscious choice that had to be made, then I'd support deleting some of the snare removal utility.

As it is, I snare people 4 different ways for free without thinking about it--those snares come free with other skills I would use anyway! With that amount of "free" snares, I don't think snare immunity should be rare or difficult to acquire--it should also come "free" with otherwise worthwhile skills.

Some classes can create incredible pressure thru all their snares and cc’s. Having a counter is needed for Stam limited mag classes

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying--currently, snares and immobilizes are super common, so removal (of them) is needed.

If they pulled back the amount of snares (and made it so you had to actually think about applying snares, rather than just getting snares free from passives on several classes, or attached to spammables, etc. etc.) it would be a different conversation--but with the current ubiquity of snares, cheap and useful snare removal is kind of a must-have.

katorga

likecats wrote: »

The next patch will probably be the best balanced patch as of yet for speed/snare.
No more ultrafast speeds, no more perma-snares. Just a bunch of regular speed guys who like to to move around in this game.

Looking forward to it.

There won't be snares or immobilizes, the patch will be the same as when everyone was running Forward Momentum to have up to 100% immunity, 100% of the time. Then players will start complaining about speed again, and the nerf pendulum will swing back.

likecats

katorga wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

The next patch will probably be the best balanced patch as of yet for speed/snare.
No more ultrafast speeds, no more perma-snares. Just a bunch of regular speed guys who like to to move around in this game.

Looking forward to it.

There won't be snares or immobilizes, the patch will be the same as when everyone was running Forward Momentum to have up to 100% immunity, 100% of the time. Then players will start complaining about speed again, and the nerf pendulum will swing back.

Forward momentum used to provide 8s of immunity in the patch(es) you mentioned, now all sources provide 4s. You can't go back to that patch, because they are not reverting this nerf. So no, you won't have 100% snare immunity, 100% of the time.

In the past stam had 100% snare immunity on top of perma 30% speed buff from major exped, and swift provided 30% speed. Basically it was very fast stam toons, and very slow mag toons.

People won't complain about speed next patch because major expedition does not have a 100% uptime, and swift has been nerfed significantly that most people no longer use it (and its less potent even if they do). The new snare immunities are 4s, so speed will not be the same as past patches where forward momentum was 8s.

Overall, it will be a much healthy balance between speed and snares, magtoons and stam toons, and no one will be perma snared + rooted by ice staffers which is the best part.

Ayastigi

Makes me happy that everybody is flaming this stupid thread

luizpaulom17

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

"Race Against Time (morph): This morph no longer reduces the cost of sprinting by 50% for 4 seconds. Instead, it now grants immunity to Snares and Immobilizations for 4 seconds."

"All Immobilizes from player abilities and item sets will now apply Immobilization Immunity once applied, to prevent multiple Immobilizes from applying on the same target. Once an Immobilize from these abilities ends, you gain immunity to Immobilizes for 3 seconds after, similar to the Dodge Roll mechanic."

1 thing makes snares and roots completly useless if u slotted this skill. And u get major expedition and crit buff at the same time as removing snares and get immunity. I can't figure out how much alcohol consumed designer of this to get this "geanie" idea...and why anyone stopped him. It's complete imcompetenct way.
2nd one executes roots at all...

Can I ask, @ZOS_GinaBruno when u have pain the head is this a reason to cut a head to remove pain? because I don't understand, why instead of variety of counter options to snares and roots on each class separately (different ways, uniq for each class) + ordering snares to Major/Minor system...u done this...What the hell is going on?

No! It is broken how it is on live now and most players are against it as U can see here! Thank god for ZOS finally changing it!!!

U just want to keep having unfair cheese fights, but guess what: its over, Gid Gud !

Strider__Roshin

What's broken is how potent snares and roots are. Great change!

Blinkin8r

Sounds like an upset zergling who can no longer be effective spamming wall of frost, talons, fossilize etc. Great change!

Teeba_Shei

Just gap close spam them to bypass the snare immunity. It was buffed to a 60% snare so you can basically root people in place by spamming gap closers. This will allow your zerg to catch up to the player and kill them.

Gilvoth

we need that 4 second speed or we are dead.
Double Take,
removed that 4 second speed boost -
this will devastate our ability to escape this cant be allowed to happen or we will have no ability to get out of immediate Danger = we will be dead, no escape while in sneak.

Jaxaxo

Gilvoth wrote: »

we need that 4 second speed or we are dead.
Double Take,
removed that 4 second speed boost -
this will devastate our ability to escape this cant be allowed to happen or we will have no ability to get out of immediate Danger = we will be dead, no escape while in sneak.

just use race against time

likecats

Gilvoth wrote: »

we need that 4 second speed or we are dead.
Double Take,
removed that 4 second speed boost -
this will devastate our ability to escape this cant be allowed to happen or we will have no ability to get out of immediate Danger = we will be dead, no escape while in sneak.

Race against time.

New double take is amazing addition to nightblade arsenal.

ecru

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

And OP thinks Forward Momentum is balance and not broken?

Stop complaining just for Magicka Skills, if this is regarding balance then both skills must take nerf together.

4 second per cast is too much immunity, it should be reduces to 2 second and cost of both skills should be increased.

Have you ever played any other MMO? 4 seconds is still an extremely short immunity timer for CC when it comes to this genre. Why do you want to permanently CC people? Do you want to make them quit the game? Do you want to be permanently CC'd? Who do you think enjoys losing control over their character every 2 seconds? No one does.

Too much CC causes people to stop participating in pvp or quit the game entirely. It happened in DAoC, it happened in WoW, and it can happen in ESO. I personally rarely queue for BGs now because of the permanent snare meta, so that's at least one player ZOS is losing in one aspect of the game because of their decisions to allow players to permanently CC other players. If Cyrodiil did not exist, I would probably stop pvping altogether solely due to the amount of CC in BGs. I like to play melee in pvp, I've played melee in pvp for a few decades now, but permanent snares and chain roots completely ruin the experience for me, so I opt out.

ZOS is really out of touch with what kind of gameplay is actually, you know, fun. No one likes being CC'd, but they've made things like ice blockade too good to not use, so if you're a good player, playing melee, and you queue for a BG there's a very good chance the entire time you are in combat in a BG you will have at least a 50% snare applied to you. I would really like someone, anyone, to find me one person who thinks that losing control over your character to such a degree is in any way enjoyable. It's a completely miserable experience from start to finish and the CC is so effective that it's almost redundant. You might as well reduce player movement speed by 50-70% in BGs because the experience would pretty much be exactly the same.

What's being done just isn't enough. People like playing the game, not watching, waiting to play, or if they can play, moving at essentially walking speed the entire time. We see constant nerfs to CC due to devs who are inexperience/overzealous with it all the time, a good example being Brigitte in OW. An entire damn meta was based around her CC because neutralizing an opposing player through a stun or a snare/root forcing a disconnect are the most powerful tools available in just about any game. Giving them to everyone and putting them on every single ability while having no immunity timers (lol?) on some things and a minuscule timer on others is just so far out of touch with what has happened in nearly every other game/genre that I'm starting to think one of the devs over at ZOS is a plant from Blizzard trying to sabotage the game.

tl;dr cc is bad

JusticeSouldier

ESO should not relate on one skill.
There should be variety...
Different ways to counter things like snares...
and i wrote some of these ways at the start of the topic...
for more fun, more ways to balance fights...
That's what i'm talking about.
Current way is counter-effective...
instead of dead mobility as it is now - we'll get dead snares and immobilizes...
with the same Immunity, provided by one skill for all classes.
I hate snares, it's broken *** now...
but it's a part of the game, that should have some weight much less than now and to have counter options with different mechanisms...
And yeah, 1 additional skill for nightblades...holiday, or hellday.
ridiculous, lazy, crap.
Are u communists or what?

@ZOS_GinaBruno please deliver this ask about snares to Gilliam or someone who's responsible for fighting system and understand why i write this. can't find who to tag here to understand that i talk with someone not air.

JusticeSouldier

LordTareq wrote: »

Are you serious? The new RAT is exactly what players have been asking for for years. Yes it requires some rethinking if you used an especially toxic build relying on snares/immobilizes (I'm switching frost staff out for fire staff) but the ability will be very healthy for the game. Also, it will sell them summerset

yes, i'm sirious. and u don't understand what i ask for.
I'm absolutly for making snares less effective.
For making them not able to stuck for endless value (major/minor snares instead today's chaos), to make different ways counter them.
DIFFERENT if a key word here.
1 skill for everyone is a *** on a stick in a bright wrapper.
Clear?

frostz417

The fact that we now have more tools for snare removal is a huge step forward from this atrocious cc meta... now all that needs to be done is fix the gap closers that go through immunity and it’ll be 👌

SippingPotions

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

"Race Against Time (morph): This morph no longer reduces the cost of sprinting by 50% for 4 seconds. Instead, it now grants immunity to Snares and Immobilizations for 4 seconds."

"All Immobilizes from player abilities and item sets will now apply Immobilization Immunity once applied, to prevent multiple Immobilizes from applying on the same target. Once an Immobilize from these abilities ends, you gain immunity to Immobilizes for 3 seconds after, similar to the Dodge Roll mechanic."

1 thing makes snares and roots completly useless if u slotted this skill. And u get major expedition and crit buff at the same time as removing snares and get immunity. I can't figure out how much alcohol consumed designer of this to get this "geanie" idea...and why anyone stopped him. It's complete imcompetenct way.
2nd one executes roots at all...

Can I ask, @ZOS_GinaBruno when u have pain the head is this a reason to cut a head to remove pain? because I don't understand, why instead of variety of counter options to snares and roots on each class separately (different ways, uniq for each class) + ordering snares to Major/Minor system...u done this...What the hell is going on?

Hey guys, I think I found a Zergling!

kollege14a5

RAT seems to be a bit overtuned tho. It shouldn't have major expedition and snare imunity imo.

frostz417

kollege14a5 wrote: »

RAT seems to be a bit overtuned tho. It shouldn't have major expedition and snare imunity imo.

Fine with me. I’ve spent 80% of my time in PvP the last 2 patches in a 70% snare because I play mag and have no damn tools to remove and provide snare immunity.
All snares are overturned right now especially ice staves and gap closers that go through immunity.

JusticeSouldier

SippingPotions wrote: »

Hey guys, I think I found a Zergling!

u can't imagine how far from truth u are here:D
please read what i ask for, with attention.

Jeezye

I definitely see your point and have also asked myself why I would even run snares or immobilizes on my builds If everyone just counters them immediately. I’m still happy we have more access to snare removals UNTIL ZOS has come up with a real solution for snares.

The current introduction is more like a band-aid fix for a broken system rather than a solution

JusticeSouldier

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please, read this thread, it's important, patchnotes show this point is very one-side discussed inside your team and with class reps and instead of one broken thing u just do another things broken and not solve the core of a problem