Bow nerf

Garack

25% less damage. Why zos destroy all in one patch? Was building a nb bow build invested lot time now 25% nerf. That's typically zos. Loose customer is the goal..

Snipe:
Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.
Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.

Juhasow

Have You tested it and You know already by how much Your DPs will drop because of that or it's just another QQ thread without any tested informations ?

Garack

25 %.. How you not knowing? This 200 ms can be ignored

Plus

Lethal Arrow (morph): This morph now applies Minor Defile, rather than Major Defile.

kypranb14_ESO

25 % less damage
10% faster cast time
20% less wait time between casts

Seems like a buff to me.

Minor Defile instead of Major. That's the nerf.

spacebandit

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

25 % less damage
10% faster cast time
20% less wait time between casts

Seems like a buff to me.

Minor Defile instead of Major. That's the nerf.

if you are weaving though that 200 ms doesn’t even matter does it? This is only going to be a buff if you spam snipe

MartiniDaniels

From PVE side it is buff, given increased projectile speed and that skill is easier to weave.
From dynamic PVP side you will able to land snipes more consistently since higher speed and lesser cast time means less chances to lose LOS and snipe will be harder to dodge, also DK wings removed so you won't receive your snipe back in your face.
From point of view of min-maxing bow and shooting unsuspecting targets, and utilizing long projectile speed to make several snipes to land within 1-2 seconds this is well-deserved nerf.

spacebandit

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

From PVE side it is buff, given increased projectile speed and that skill is easier to weave.
From dynamic PVP side you will able to land snipes more consistently since higher speed and lesser cast time means less chances to lose LOS and snipe will be harder to dodge, also DK wings removed so you won't receive your snipe back in your face.
From point of view of min-maxing bow and shooting unsuspecting targets, and utilizing long projectile speed to make several snipes to land within 1-2 seconds this is well-deserved nerf.

lol it’s funny to watch a snipe follow someone who just darted away at lightning speed and finally 60 meters away it’s hits em.

frostz417

Deserved a nerf

Toc de Malsvi

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

From PVE side it is buff, given increased projectile speed and that skill is easier to weave.
From dynamic PVP side you will able to land snipes more consistently since higher speed and lesser cast time means less chances to lose LOS and snipe will be harder to dodge, also DK wings removed so you won't receive your snipe back in your face.
From point of view of min-maxing bow and shooting unsuspecting targets, and utilizing long projectile speed to make several snipes to land within 1-2 seconds this is well-deserved nerf.

Myself and multiple others have tested it and found no buff when light weaving with it. The time between weaves is the same as before with only a nerf to the damage done.

It does appear to be more responsive as far as not lagging out and getting stuck in the cast. But overall it has been a significant nerf.

Zelos

[removed profanity] your sniping in the back of a group for 10k lethal arrows and major defile. Actually try to play the game.

Toc de Malsvi

Zelos wrote: »

Fuckk your sniping in the back of a group for 10k lethal arrows and major defile. Actually try to play the game.

^
Demonstrating precisely why the community shows so little concern or willingness to test. There is massive bias, people want it to suck so they gleefully promote these changes.

Best explanation I've seen for the lack of cast change when weaving is that it is related to ping. That with lower ping perhaps gaining 0.2s is irrelevant.

Royalthought

Tbh. The damage of snipe was never my issue.

It was the desync that bothered me.

spacebandit

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Fuckk your sniping in the back of a group for 10k lethal arrows and major defile. Actually try to play the game.

^
Demonstrating precisely why the community shows so little concern or willingness to test. There is massive bias, people want it to suck so they gleefully promote these changes.

Best explanation I've seen for the lack of cast change when weaving is that it is related to ping. That with lower ping perhaps gaining 0.2s is irrelevant.

The 200 ms Makes a good excuse to nerf it I guess. Nothing like claiming to not know to get a desired result.

I don’t even use snipe except on my nb, Which got shelved already so I could care less.

Sucks pve has to suffer tho

MartiniDaniels

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

From PVE side it is buff, given increased projectile speed and that skill is easier to weave.
From dynamic PVP side you will able to land snipes more consistently since higher speed and lesser cast time means less chances to lose LOS and snipe will be harder to dodge, also DK wings removed so you won't receive your snipe back in your face.
From point of view of min-maxing bow and shooting unsuspecting targets, and utilizing long projectile speed to make several snipes to land within 1-2 seconds this is well-deserved nerf.

Myself and multiple others have tested it and found no buff when light weaving with it. The time between weaves is the same as before with only a nerf to the damage done.

It does appear to be more responsive as far as not lagging out and getting stuck in the cast. But overall it has been a significant nerf.

I was in that thread and made tests myself. It seems that usefulness of removal of 200 ms cooldown is related to lag/ping same way as it affects dps in PVE, higher ping, bigger time between weaves. If person has small lag, his dps won't decrease after snipe change. If person has big lag, we may say that cooldown after casting time was somewhat mitigating that lag decreasing impact of connection quality between players and now snipe spammers with big ping will be in disadvantage.
Is that a bad thing to be in disadvantage due to lag? Yes. Is removal of cooldown and reducing snipe damage while increasing projectile speed will make PVP more healthy? Yes.
So it's separate issues, no need to count them as one. Glass-cannon gank snipers were a cancer in PVP. ZOS does everything to make that playstyle ineffective, this is good, that means that current combat team understands the right way. Buff active gameplay, nerf cancerous 1 button gameplay be it spamming of snipe, wings, flares, snares or pets. Maybe they are wrong in some nuances, but overall direction is good.

Aliyavana

The nerf should be bigger

spacebandit

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

From PVE side it is buff, given increased projectile speed and that skill is easier to weave.
From dynamic PVP side you will able to land snipes more consistently since higher speed and lesser cast time means less chances to lose LOS and snipe will be harder to dodge, also DK wings removed so you won't receive your snipe back in your face.
From point of view of min-maxing bow and shooting unsuspecting targets, and utilizing long projectile speed to make several snipes to land within 1-2 seconds this is well-deserved nerf.

Myself and multiple others have tested it and found no buff when light weaving with it. The time between weaves is the same as before with only a nerf to the damage done.

It does appear to be more responsive as far as not lagging out and getting stuck in the cast. But overall it has been a significant nerf.

I was in that thread and made tests myself. It seems that usefulness of removal of 200 ms cooldown is related to lag/ping same way as it affects dps in PVE, higher ping, bigger time between weaves. If person has small lag, his dps won't decrease after snipe change. If person has big lag, we may say that cooldown after casting time was somewhat mitigating that lag decreasing impact of connection quality between players and now snipe spammers with big ping will be in disadvantage.
Is that a bad thing to be in disadvantage due to lag? Yes. Is removal of cooldown and reducing snipe damage while increasing projectile speed will make PVP more healthy? Yes.
So it's separate issues, no need to count them as one. Glass-cannon gank snipers were a cancer in PVP. ZOS does everything to make that playstyle ineffective, this is good, that means that current combat team understands the right way. Buff active gameplay, nerf cancerous 1 button gameplay be it spamming of snipe, wings, flares, snares or pets. Maybe they are wrong in some nuances, but overall direction is good.

This isn’t going to change the one button gameplay. Snipe spam back to back is going to be the same over a period of time because of the 200 ms change and .1 means they can spam them 3/10 of a second or 30% faster.

Bladerunner1

You know things are looking bad for the bow when you consistently get better dps by slotting crushing weapon instead of the primary spammable of the bow.


Crushing Weapon - more light attacks and Assassin's Scourge procs, cleaner rotation


Focused Aim - every bit as slow to weave as it is on live

*Edit - This is with 100 ping

Someone else said Nightblade Bow/bow is the same as before, I'd really like to know what they're doing now, because all I see is a nerf.

Juhasow

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

You know things are looking bad for the bow when you consistently get better dps by slotting crushing weapon instead of the primary spammable of the bow.


Crushing Weapon - more light attacks and Assassin's Scourge procs, cleaner rotation


Focused Aim - every bit as slow to weave as it is on live

*Edit - This is with 100 ping

Someone else said Nightblade Bow/bow is the same as before, I'd really like to know what they're doing now, because all I see is a nerf.

Please go and do similar comparision of crushing weapon vs snipe on live server to give full picture.

Pallio

No point arguing here, 99% of these folks are happy about any nerf to gankblade, regardless the collateral damage to everyone else.

Bladerunner1

Juhasow wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

You know things are looking bad for the bow when you consistently get better dps by slotting crushing weapon instead of the primary spammable of the bow.


Crushing Weapon - more light attacks and Assassin's Scourge procs, cleaner rotation


Focused Aim - every bit as slow to weave as it is on live

*Edit - This is with 100 ping

Someone else said Nightblade Bow/bow is the same as before, I'd really like to know what they're doing now, because all I see is a nerf.

Please go and do similar comparision of crushing weapon vs snipe on live server to give full picture.

Robust Dummy on Live:


Crushing Weapon


Focused Aim

Everything besides the dummy *and self buffed major fracture in place of dark shade* is left the same as on PTS, though I'm not sure how Penetration works on the Iron Atronach.

Marcus_Thracius

all this was made for pvp - nerf snipe cuz i cant counter it- lol
If you are getting ganked by boow builds in the first place you suck at pvp
L2P

RandomKodiak

With the it's just your ping argument though then we are stuck only being able to run instant cast anything unless we all have perfect latency all the time. It seems that any skill they tried to normalize snipe, uppercut, some of the magic cast time abilities, any of them are having this issue. So except for the few lucky people that never seem to have problems no one will be able to run trials or pvp worth a crap unless they are running all instant cast builds? I would say they had to have done something wrong since all the normalized cast time skills are affected, or seem to be.

Aliyavana

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

all this was made for pvp - nerf snipe cuz i cant counter it- lol
If you are getting ganked by boow builds in the first place you suck at pvp
L2P

or maybe its because most bowmen attack you when you are already fighting someone else?

MartiniDaniels

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

You know things are looking bad for the bow when you consistently get better dps by slotting crushing weapon instead of the primary spammable of the bow.


Focused Aim - every bit as slow to weave as it is on live

*Edit - This is with 100 ping

Someone else said Nightblade Bow/bow is the same as before, I'd really like to know what they're doing now, because all I see is a nerf.

Please go and do similar comparision of crushing weapon vs snipe on live server to give full picture.

Robust Dummy on Live:


Focused Aim

Everything besides the dummy *and self buffed major fracture in place of dark shade* is left the same as on PTS, though I'm not sure how Penetration works on the Iron Atronach.

100 ping is middle ground, not that it "good" ping. Anyway, it shows that ZOS overestimates reduce of cooldown after cast time, because there will be still some ~ 50-100 ms between hit and weave even with "ok" ping. Probably, they should reduce nerf to 20% instead of 25%.

Rikumaru

Good. If you are a ganker I expect you to at least enter melee range if you want to be able to 1 shot someone. It's kinda dumb that on live you can just snipe gank, do 12k snipes and be untouchable by having max speed while sneaking in cloak. These sort of players just wait until you are fighting other players before they even attempt to fight you.

Marcus_Thracius

pvp is not an honorable battleground where players fart rainbows - its kill and be killed - in war you dont go and say oh no the enemy in using "insert what you dont like" so its not good - nerf nerf nerf it
You adapt and thats the fun in it - i play a stam sorc - and love it when ian in a 1v1 and some bow player tries to snipe spam me - just pop a detect pot run and burst then - 9/10 they die in 5 sec
So yeah its a L2P for ppl
#stop killing the fun in pvp

Narvuntien

I have 300-450 ping so I snipe ganked because its pretty hard to fight in any other way (err except manning siege)

Apxac

Are you guys still going to play nightblade in this patch? Forget if there are no changes on the test server, we can assume that the class is dead. Nerf snipe damage (yes, nerf, do not try to find positive points, 25% is a lot), there is no longer a minor berserk (-8% damage), gank is now possible only against hamsters. Ok, they don’t want to improve the archer’s game, but they worsened the melee, removed the penetration from the main skill, which was a highlight of the nightblade and allowed more damage, removed the healing reduction, now we have no chance against templar or dk. ZOS, do you understand what you are doing?

Garack

NB is dead in close combat and dead with long range, so now you can go brawl with heavy Armor, lol, and i invested tons of hours in this game..now i can redo with other class, but zos cant be trusted soon they kill other classes.

SodanTok

I dont know if they somehow missed the interaction with weaving or just ignored it, but the way they handled this change is just ridiculous.
You cant just cut time by 23% and nerf damage by 25%, that makes no sense.
If we followed same logic they could have decreased time by 40% instead and then damage by 40% and you know what would happen? We would have cast time ability that takes 0.8s to cast but deals exact same damage as 0 time instant cast crushing weapon.

In current PTS version this 1second cast time weapon specific ability is just 25% stronger (and much more expensive) than the universal instant cast crushing weapon.

Izaki

Garack wrote: »

25 %.. How you not knowing? This 200 ms can be ignored

Plus

Lethal Arrow (morph): This morph now applies Minor Defile, rather than Major Defile.

That's almost a buff more than a nerf. Minor Defile is MUCH more rare than Major Defile. The Diseased status effect applies Major Defile, a ton of sets, poisons and skills apply Major Defile.