Please remove the cast time on dark exchange

t_black57_ESO

Please remove the cast time on dark exchange. Using this ability feels clunky in the rotation due to the cast time it has. with all the other changes to cast time ability's this one should be looked at as well. this ability functions similarly to other class ability's: warden Betty netch and morphs no cast time similar function, Night blade siphoning strikes and morphs no cast time similar function. with all the proposed changes to combat to make it feel smother the ability dark exchange should also not have a cast time as well to make it feel better to use in the rotation.

Plz take a look at this

Thanks

KatySpirit

I think this is a good proposal that helps make a class specific skill more appealing! Sorcerer tanks (pve) must rely on the clannfear for a strong self heal right now and that is risky since the clannfear can be killed. Exchange/Deal are good in concept but the cast time makes them impractical for tanking in pve content. Scale the healing based on max health and lower the resource return to fit with other similar skills if no cast time will make it too potent, but I think it would be a more valuable pve skill if it had no cast time.

OrdinatorInMourning

Removing the cast time would break PvP (cast time was increased because Conversion was too strong in PvP). Do you want it? I don't. This skill is quite balance now I think.

@KatySpirit

> that is risky since the clannfear can be killed
Have you read Murkmire patch notes? Pets are unkillable now, so this point is irrelevant.

> the cast time makes them impractical for tanking in pve content
Why do you think so? I use Dark Deal on my PvE tank and this skill is great. If you can use it between boss' heavy attacks/different mechanics, it's only your problem, because it can be easily done, you just need to practice a bit. Learn the mechanics so you would know when you can use skill and when you better block.

> scale the healing based on max health and lower the resource return to fit with other similar skills
The main purpose of Dark Conversion and its morphs is resource returning, healing is a good bonus only. You have a clannfear who can heal you to full HP bar from last 10% of HP, why do you rely on conversion in such situations? Actually I would like to see the resource returning being increased in next patch, but, uhm, it would break PvP. Again.

KatySpirit

Oh, unkillable sorcerer pets? Nevermind then. Obviously I don't play sorcerer tank, I just know that in the past they have had some trouble with that clannfear getting killed and then the tank dies. Irritating to us healers. I don't think I have seen a sorcerer tank in 5 months, hence why I figured it wasn't working out for them. On that note, can my heals NOT hit the pets if they cannot die? Seems wasteful...

The cast time is only impractical as a healing move in pve, so again if clannfear is immortal then that point is indeed not relevant. Thanks for the clarification!

Alucardo

HELL YES. Either remove the cast time, or return it to its former glory without the last bits of the resources over 20 seconds. It's just awful.
Trying to use this ability mid combat is painful, and can end up in your death. Not to mention sorcs can spam crushing shock and deny you from range whenever they feel like it.
It's also horrible when trying to bar swap after a dark deal.. it just takes that great fast paced combat, and turns it into something gross.
I don't care if you turn that heal into a HoT or something, but the cast time needs to go. For some reason dark conversion (the magicka morph) feels a lot smoother than dark deal. I can't really explain why.

Nerftheforums

Your lack of understanding of basic game mechanics is...disturbing.

wheem_ESO

As I said in the other thread where you posted this suggestion, it would be extremely overpowered in PvP if the current version of the skill were to become instant cast.

Alucardo wrote: »

HELL YES. Either remove the cast time, or return it to its former glory without the last bits of the resources over 20 seconds. It's just awful.
Trying to use this ability mid combat is painful, and can end up in your death. Not to mention sorcs can spam crushing shock and deny you from range whenever they feel like it.
It's also horrible when trying to bar swap after a dark deal.. it just takes that great fast paced combat, and turns it into something gross.
I don't care if you turn that heal into a HoT or something, but the cast time needs to go. For some reason dark conversion (the magicka morph) feels a lot smoother than dark deal. I can't really explain why.

If Crushing Shock didn't interrupt Dark Deal/Dark Conversion, what would be the point of using it in PvP? That's one of a tiny handful of skill that are potentially affected. I'm sympathetic to the issue with bar swapping, though, since I have that problem on my Magicka Warden all the time.

The only way I might get on board with Dark Deal/Dark Conversion becoming instant cast would be if the skill were redesigned so that the resource return and heal were both over time and not instant (and numbers may obviously need to be tweaked).

Nerftheforums

wheem_ESO wrote: »

As I said in the other thread where you posted this suggestion, it would be extremely overpowered in PvP if the current version of the skill were to become instant cast.

Alucardo wrote: »

HELL YES. Either remove the cast time, or return it to its former glory without the last bits of the resources over 20 seconds. It's just awful.
Trying to use this ability mid combat is painful, and can end up in your death. Not to mention sorcs can spam crushing shock and deny you from range whenever they feel like it.
It's also horrible when trying to bar swap after a dark deal.. it just takes that great fast paced combat, and turns it into something gross.
I don't care if you turn that heal into a HoT or something, but the cast time needs to go. For some reason dark conversion (the magicka morph) feels a lot smoother than dark deal. I can't really explain why.

If Crushing Shock didn't interrupt Dark Deal/Dark Conversion, what would be the point of using it in PvP? That's one of a tiny handful of skill that are potentially affected. I'm sympathetic to the issue with bar swapping, though, since I have that problem on my Magicka Warden all the time.

The only way I might get on board with Dark Deal/Dark Conversion becoming instant cast would be if the skill were redesigned so that the resource return and heal were both over time and not instant (and numbers may obviously need to be tweaked).

Without considering that they reduced the possibility to interrupt dark deal 3 patches ago via the cc immunity.

KatySpirit

I take back my take back, I tested it, sorcerer pets are still killable in pve. Dark exchange/deal could benefit from an instant cast heal that scales on max health for sorcerer tanks in pve. Let the resource return be over time like warden's FREE netch if it would be op.

Harrdarrzarr

If you want cast-time removed, they should increase the amount of resources it gives over 20 seconds and take away the instant resources. Otherwise it would be too OP for pvp I think.

OrdinatorInMourning

@KatySpirit
Where did you test it?

> Combat pets will now take 0 damage while in a Dungeon, Trial, or Group Arena.

Sure they die in overland areas&PvP environment. My clannfear and matriarch have never died in Dungeons&Trials since Murkmire patch.

Rikumaru

In PvP dark deal is literally the strongest resource return skill in the game. The downside to it, is the fact it actually has a cast time. If it was made instant cast it would also need to be in the same ball park in terms of sustain as the other resource return skills.

Iskiab

wheem_ESO wrote: »

As I said in the other thread where you posted this suggestion, it would be extremely overpowered in PvP if the current version of the skill were to become instant cast.

Alucardo wrote: »

HELL YES. Either remove the cast time, or return it to its former glory without the last bits of the resources over 20 seconds. It's just awful.
Trying to use this ability mid combat is painful, and can end up in your death. Not to mention sorcs can spam crushing shock and deny you from range whenever they feel like it.
It's also horrible when trying to bar swap after a dark deal.. it just takes that great fast paced combat, and turns it into something gross.
I don't care if you turn that heal into a HoT or something, but the cast time needs to go. For some reason dark conversion (the magicka morph) feels a lot smoother than dark deal. I can't really explain why.

If Crushing Shock didn't interrupt Dark Deal/Dark Conversion, what would be the point of using it in PvP? That's one of a tiny handful of skill that are potentially affected. I'm sympathetic to the issue with bar swapping, though, since I have that problem on my Magicka Warden all the time.

The only way I might get on board with Dark Deal/Dark Conversion becoming instant cast would be if the skill were redesigned so that the resource return and heal were both over time and not instant (and numbers may obviously need to be tweaked).

Seriously. If dark exchange was instant sorc would be the only magicka pvp class.

KatySpirit

OrdinatorInMourning wrote: »

@KatySpirit
Where did you test it?

> Combat pets will now take 0 damage while in a Dungeon, Trial, or Group Arena.

Sure they die in overland areas&PvP environment. My clannfear and matriarch have never died in Dungeons&Trials since Murkmire patch.

Oh! I tested it on a world boss, so if it is dungeons/etc. only then that would make sense. Tank pets don't need to be unkillable on world bosses since they are kind of a joke and a DPS can solo most of them, so fair fair. I really don't play pet sorcerer since the pets drive me insane, so this is definitely NOT my area of expertise. It's interesting to see how they have made a skill work different for pve and pvp...I would like that to be a trend.

I guess that also explains why petsorc is excelling in vMA right now

Dracane

Ever since Overload lost its 3rd bar, I haven't touched Dark Exchange anymore. I just can't be bothered to sacrifise a slot for this. Removing the cast time wouldn't change this and it wouldn't be healthy for pvp either.

I would prefer if Sorcerer sustain would function more like the sustain of other classes: mostly passive and in the background. We have 2 (in my opinion) pretty useless passives. Rebate and Blood magic. Rebate could be changed, so that pet damage restores a small amount of magicka or stamina, once every second or so.

I'm not a fan of slotting an ability that has no use other than ressource gain.
DKs gain ressource then they use their ults.
Nightblades have siphoning strikes, which lasts a long time and also heals with every hit.
The Warden's netch is a free cast and also grants a damage buff and purge if you are magicka.
Necromancer has ressource return on their damage and healing tethers and when things die.
Templars have rune focus, which also gives a sick amount of resistances.

Only Sorcerers need to deal with this annoying ability that doesn't really have any appeal.

karekiz

KatySpirit wrote: »

I guess that also explains why petsorc is excelling in vMA right now

Pets die in VMA. Its counted as "its own thing". There are other reason why pet sorcs excel at VMA <Ez healing - Ez sheilding - no real requirement to bar swap>.

I am currently fine as a tank sorc with the current method. You can weave in between most content. The heal isn't really the great part, its not a shabby thing, but clannfear is way easier to heal yourself with.

I can see how stam sorcs would want it this way, but they would probably nerf/increase cost it even further if that were true <Essentially a small regen over a long period of time>.

Apherius

Dark deal is meh, it could be so much more interesting in PVE

the cast time IS the issue.

Dark Conversion

• if your goal is to make it interesting in both PVE and PVP, here is an idea (not the best):
  " Dark Conversion: Cost 2000 stamina ~ Cast-T : Instant ~ Duration: 20,4 sec ~ Self : Bargain with darkness, restore 8K health and 3600 Magicka after 1,2 sec. [ Then restore 1100 health and 190 magicka each 1,2 sec but deplete 350 stamina each second, during 19,2 sec. Until you run out of stamina or the ability is toggled off]. You can be interrupted within 1,2 sec after you used the ability.
  
  I really like this idea, make it a toogle like mend wound ( requiered on one bar only), toggle the skill on ... wait( no cast-time, you can use another ability while " waiting ") 1,2 sec then toggle it off if you only care about the first part of the skill, or keep it on and it will start draining your stamina while restoring your health and magicka each 1,2 sec after 1,2 sec... + the enemies still have 1,2 sec to interrupt you when you use the skill.
  
  Or
  
• Dark Conversion: Cost 2250 stamina ~ Cast-T : Instant ~ Self : Bargain with darkness, restore 8K health and 3600 Magicka after 1,2 sec. and an additional 2400 magicka over 20 second. you can be interrupted within 1,2 sec after you used the ability.
  ( This would make the ability useful in PVE cause the cast time is the main problem ) and keep it useful in PVP.

Or

Dark Exchange

• Dark Exchange: Cost 3014 stamina or Magicka ~ Cast-T: Instant ~ Self: Bargain with darkness to restore 8K health and 3600 magicka or stamina after 1,2 sec and an additional 2500 magicka or stamina over 20 second, whichever maximum is the higher. and cost 3014 stamina or magicka whichever maximum is lower. You can be interrupted within 1,2 sec after you used the ability.
• Dark Conversion:: [ Has reduced cost ]
• Dark Deal: Cost 1100 stamina or magicka ~ Cast-T: Instant ~ Self ~ needed on 1 bar only ~ Toogle: Bargain with darkness to restore 1100 health and 250 magicka or stamina each 1,2 sec, whichever maximum is the higher and cost 300 stamina or magicka each 1 sec, whichever maximum is the lower. Deplete stamina or magicka until your run out or the ability is tooggled off.
  
  They would need to ajust the values ofc.

Alucardo

Rikumaru wrote: »

In PvP dark deal is literally the strongest resource return skill in the game. The downside to it, is the fact it actually has a cast time. If it was made instant cast it would also need to be in the same ball park in terms of sustain as the other resource return skills.

Of course. If it were to be made instant cast and uninterruptible I would not expect an 8k heal and nearly 3k in stam back. I didn't mind so much before the dark deal nerf because the resources it returned was actually worth the trouble, but now I'm finding myself needing to spam it more than ever, which just isn't feasible in most cases

rafaelcsmaia

The simple fact people use equilibrium instead of this skill in pve says a lot about how clunky it is.

Pvp is another cookie, it has to find a middle ground, but as it is, only pvp stamsorcs use it eventually

Alucardo

https://youtu.be/h39mzWOJ_5U

Just a couple of examples that happened recently. Cast times just don't work in pvp, especially ones tied to resource gain and healing. I have no hope it will get reworked. At this point I'm nearly ready to throw in the towel.

Prutton

No. Dark Exchange is already strong the way it is. I play mostly PVE, but I understand the only reason sorcs perform at acceptable level in PVP is because of Dark Exchange. Even if they removed the cd, it probably wouldn't fit on dps bars. What is the point of disrupting PVP for something that PVE sorceres won't even use?

Lord_Eomer

and how broken this skill will be like Twilight heals?

Apherius

Prutton wrote: »

No. Dark Exchange is already strong the way it is. I play mostly PVE, but I understand the only reason sorcs perform at acceptable level in PVP is because of Dark Exchange. Even if they removed the cd, it probably wouldn't fit on dps bars. What is the point of disrupting PVP for something that PVE sorceres won't even use?

They can't just " remove the cast-time and change some numbers ", if they want to make it useful in PVE without making it OP in PVP they need to change the whole ability ( I gave some ideas above, my english isn't perfect but I believe it's perfectly understandable).

Galarthor

I think Dark Exchange should be reworked.

- Convert the Healing Component into an Initial Heal that just heals enough to get you out of execute range and the rest into a Healing over Time
- Turn the entire Resource Conversion into an over time effect
- Make Dark Exchange instant, b/c nobody can afford to cast 1.2 seconds to get out of execute range

This delayed heal fits the sorc far better, as the main defense is the Shield underneath which the HoT can heal you up. And "delay" is written all over the sorcerer's damage / way to kill!

LiquidPony

OrdinatorInMourning wrote: »

@KatySpirit
Where did you test it?

> Combat pets will now take 0 damage while in a Dungeon, Trial, or Group Arena.

Sure they die in overland areas&PvP environment. My clannfear and matriarch have never died in Dungeons&Trials since Murkmire patch.

Pets do die in PvE though. They aren't *supposed* to die but they do. First boss MoL is one place, they were getting killed by various dungeon mechanics as well (FL, RoM, CoH2 and an umber of others) but not sure which (if any) of those have been fixed.

redspecter23

Let me shine up my permablocking sorc tank. No cast time on exchange lets me block, have massive magicka regen and just turn that into stamina for infinite blocks.

If they did go ahead and remove the cast time, they would have to be very careful to balance it. The balance they come up with to prevent perma block tanks might just make it useless for other purposes.

A removal of the cast time combined with a scaling cost increase if spammed could potentially work, but would still have to be carefully balanced.

DoonerSeraph

Maybe they should move all the resource restore as over-time, and then make it instant? Although that would suck for PvP.

psychotic13

Wouldnt mind it being instant cast and then give the resources and health over time. Not over such a long duration that its worse though. Maybe 4/5 seconds max.

Iki

That cast-time very much needs to be removed. It`s inconsistency that only sorcs got cast-time in resource restore ability while other classes do not. Also worth mentioning that other classes get additional nice things for using their equivalent. Templars get major resistance buffs from rune, wardens get major sorcery/brutality from netch and nightblades get healing from siphoning attacks when weaving and dk being unique with their battle roar and combustion. Sorcs only get resources, nothing else. Other classes gain more by sacrificing ability-slot to their sustain tool.

For the sake of pvp balance the amount of resources restored instantly could be decreased, or even completely remove instant restore and then add some other nice buff to it to make it on par with what other classes have.
It`s just unbelievable that after all this time of having worse sustain than others sorcs still got this cast-time in sustain tool rendering it useless in pve and potentially dangerous to use in pvp. Now it would be time to fix that.

Rygonix

I suggest the instant resource and health return be exchanged for a HoT+ resource over time, cast time removed and Minor Sorcery granted for the duration of the HoT. The stam return morph will grant Minor Brutality.

MartiniDaniels

Rygonix wrote: »

I suggest the instant resource and health return be exchanged for a HoT+ resource over time, cast time removed and Minor Sorcery granted for the duration of the HoT. The stam return morph will grant Minor Brutality.

Lol. This will never happen.