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OK, can we ban combat pets from BGs please ?
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The lag is not the issue (though it certainly can cause problems when you have a freaking PET ZERG in a small scale environment); the primary issue is the targeting abuse. Petstackers in premade pet groups are 100% abusing targeting. They stack pets because they know they’re next to impossible to hit with ST abilities, and can mitigate a ton of AOE damage for free. Again, @ZOS_RichLambert , how many threads about pet stacking need to be made before it’s dealt with?I wonder what it looks like to fight againts 4 pet sorcs, all with 3 pets + Atro, so you kinda fight against 16-20 enemies xd
It’s freaking infuriating. I posted an angry thread about it in the BG forum several months ago when it happened to me the first time. I’m the one who got reprimanded; not the group deliberately griefing other players.
Some people don’t feel safe to PVP without being surrounded by a massive meat shield, I guess. Zerglings gonna zergling...3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I swear..why do you guys even play the game. You guys want to nerf ever class.
All because you havent l2p
OMG, people who are frustrated with pet stacking in BGs do not need to L2P. Petstackers deliberately abuse targeting for free mitigation. It’s completely broken. The only thing that’s going to take out a group of 20 (4 players and their sixteen pets) in a no-CP environment is coordinated AOE ultimate bombing; good luck if you’re not in a premade.
I don’t want to ban pet sorcs from BGs, personally, but I do want ZOS to discourage the practice because it is BROKEN and GRIEFS other players who don’t have a roving meat shield providing 100% mitigation. Damaging a player’s pet(s) should deal 25% of the damage done to that player per pet hit. That way, a player using a single matriarch to LOS gets some free mitigation, and the premade griefers with 8-16 pets active get NO free mitigation.Edited by Aurielle on April 18, 2019 10:11AM2 -
DocDova✭✭✭Why people are taking it on sorc alone ? It's also applicable on werewolves teams running BGs, second thing to be noted is that pets location is in accordance to their owner, so they might come from any direction out of blue, a pet is far away but when player changed position, it's teleported right in front of you in midst of battle. So when pets provide too much mitigation, causes lag, can't be tracked as their position could change, then I say there is some problem here.
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why people are taking it on sorc alone ? It's also applicable on werewolves teams running BGs, second thing to be noted is that pets location is in accordance to their owner, so they might come from any direction out of blue, a pet is far away but when player changed position, it's teleported right in front of you in midst of battle. So when pets provide too much mitigation, causes lag, can't be tracked as their position could change, then I say there is some problem here.
Oh, I agree. WW pet groups are as much of a problem. Funnily enough, I came across a pet group on PS4 not too long ago... they were stam sorcs using the clannfear, the twilight, and Maw of the Infernal to guarantee that they ALWAYS had 8-12 pets on the screen, even when not in WW form. Was infuriating. I dropped group.
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The lag is not the issue (though it certainly can cause problems when you have a freaking PET ZERG in a small scale environment); the primary issue is the targeting abuse. Petstackers in premade pet groups are 100% abusing targeting. They stack pets because they know they’re next to impossible to hit with ST abilities, and can mitigate a ton of AOE damage for free. Again, @ZOS_RichLambert , how many threads about pet stacking need to be made before it’s dealt with?I wonder what it looks like to fight againts 4 pet sorcs, all with 3 pets + Atro, so you kinda fight against 16-20 enemies xd
It’s freaking infuriating. I posted an angry thread about it in the BG forum several months ago when it happened to me the first time. I’m the one who got reprimanded; not the group deliberately griefing other players.
Some people don’t feel safe to PVP without being surrounded by a massive meat shield, I guess. Zerglings gonna zergling...
I saw 24+ in Cyro running in a pet ball. They still got wiped because they sucked, but if they were all smart enough to slot Bahraha Curse and Valkyn/Maw of Inferno + get max resists, then it would have been a problem. Good thing most pet sorcs have no idea what kind of cheese is possible...1 -
DocDova✭✭✭Yes, there is a line between using and misusing resources at one's disposal. I am a bow guy, but I rarely use snipe, 90% of times I am in middle of fight or chasing someone running away. Everyone says I should be staying away sniping people, but I don't do that. Must have killed 80 in BG today and only one was snipe, because he was standing above sniping others.0
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Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭JamieAubrey wrote: »Sounds like a Nerf Sorc thread
A player that prefers to get ganged would rather buff magsorcs inorder to remove a pet or two.0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The lag is not the issue (though it certainly can cause problems when you have a freaking PET ZERG in a small scale environment); the primary issue is the targeting abuse. Petstackers in premade pet groups are 100% abusing targeting. They stack pets because they know they’re next to impossible to hit with ST abilities, and can mitigate a ton of AOE damage for free. Again, @ZOS_RichLambert , how many threads about pet stacking need to be made before it’s dealt with?I wonder what it looks like to fight againts 4 pet sorcs, all with 3 pets + Atro, so you kinda fight against 16-20 enemies xd
It’s freaking infuriating. I posted an angry thread about it in the BG forum several months ago when it happened to me the first time. I’m the one who got reprimanded; not the group deliberately griefing other players.
Some people don’t feel safe to PVP without being surrounded by a massive meat shield, I guess. Zerglings gonna zergling...
I saw 24+ in Cyro running in a pet ball. They still got wiped because they sucked, but if they were all smart enough to slot Bahraha Curse and Valkyn/Maw of Inferno + get max resists, then it would have been a problem. Good thing most pet sorcs have no idea what kind of cheese is possible...
I guess this was some guild event. Sometimes when it is lagy guilds do such events. Just for fun.Because I can!0 -
Aalahk✭✭✭So instead of asking ZOS to address the performance issues, you'd rather they just removed 2 of the main abilities that a fair few sorcerers use?
Seems like a bit of an overreaction.4 -
DocDova✭✭✭Sorc got best finisher, decent shield, decent heals, why they overdo this pet stuff ? I as a stam dk using bow and 1h&S, have no finisher, my kills are regularly get stolen, but these pet builds (sorc or werewolves teams) overdo it.
I play weird, my setup is weird. Yet I play as such, and get decent damage and kills.0 -
ThanatosXR✭✭✭I never found pets much of a issue. The 99% of CC in BG needs removed and add to every class one skill that has a slow. The slows kill the flow. Add a unique buff to one of every class skills. Make dps useful besides spamming ***. Redo the scoring system to call of duty like instead of K/D/A. So many werid design choices for pvp its not even funny. Make roles in group overhead color and symbol instead of just white icons.
And for god sakes make a open group join/create for world pvp, you know your making a mmo right?
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jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jainiadral wrote: »No.
Pets are a legitimate part of the combat mechanics and a major part of class flavour, in most games of this kind.
You can't just assume they are running with pets to cause lag.
Personally, I just have to avoid PvP in all games, now, as my internet connection is too unreliable and the customer support too utterly abysmal to deal with any issues.
When they renationalise BT (which shouldn't be too long, now), I may be able to return...
is lag caused by pets to other players also legitimate part of combat mechanics ? I don't assume, I know.
@jainiadral Read properly before you post, I already mentioned It's not a nerf or change in skill kind of thing. It's about people causing lag intentionally by having all pets active at same time. If it was cyrodiil, I would have understood, that's a warzone, You cant accept fair fight. It's BG, it's gladiatorial games.
Why don't devs check the logs, compare the data and tell us whether extra pets in BG's causes latency in caparison to BGs where no pets are there ? They can also check the logs whether there is been in an increase in tendency to have all pet actives + Maw of infernal among sorcerer teams.
If what I am saying is true, than they need to do something about it.
and as long as Sony and ZOS don't say I can't play ESO on my basic ps4, Nobody should mention that here.
I did read, and I think your request is absurd. Pet classes use pets. They're designed that way. This game is designed to allow various classes to use skills as they choose, and pets are a feature of the warden and sorcerer classes. To ban players from using a certain set of skills because some other players might have lag is... silly, to put it mildly.
It's also the first time I've ever seen anyone requesting certain skills be banned from any variety of PvP in any game. Nerfs, seen those everywhere. But outright bans? That's totally a new one. Congratulations! TIL.
You are free to think, but point is that what I said is true, more characters on screen causes more latency. I don't know what's best solution here, I said ban pets from BGs, let's hear your solution.
Existence of a problem is confirmed, if you think my solution is too absurd, say your piece.
Simple. Do what every other person does when they deal with technical issues-- talk to ZOS rechnical support. Report the lag as a bug, maybe. Banning every sorc or warden's pets isn't the solution.3 -
DocDova✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »jainiadral wrote: »No.
Pets are a legitimate part of the combat mechanics and a major part of class flavour, in most games of this kind.
You can't just assume they are running with pets to cause lag.
Personally, I just have to avoid PvP in all games, now, as my internet connection is too unreliable and the customer support too utterly abysmal to deal with any issues.
When they renationalise BT (which shouldn't be too long, now), I may be able to return...
is lag caused by pets to other players also legitimate part of combat mechanics ? I don't assume, I know.
@jainiadral Read properly before you post, I already mentioned It's not a nerf or change in skill kind of thing. It's about people causing lag intentionally by having all pets active at same time. If it was cyrodiil, I would have understood, that's a warzone, You cant accept fair fight. It's BG, it's gladiatorial games.
Why don't devs check the logs, compare the data and tell us whether extra pets in BG's causes latency in caparison to BGs where no pets are there ? They can also check the logs whether there is been in an increase in tendency to have all pet actives + Maw of infernal among sorcerer teams.
If what I am saying is true, than they need to do something about it.
and as long as Sony and ZOS don't say I can't play ESO on my basic ps4, Nobody should mention that here.
I did read, and I think your request is absurd. Pet classes use pets. They're designed that way. This game is designed to allow various classes to use skills as they choose, and pets are a feature of the warden and sorcerer classes. To ban players from using a certain set of skills because some other players might have lag is... silly, to put it mildly.
It's also the first time I've ever seen anyone requesting certain skills be banned from any variety of PvP in any game. Nerfs, seen those everywhere. But outright bans? That's totally a new one. Congratulations! TIL.
You are free to think, but point is that what I said is true, more characters on screen causes more latency. I don't know what's best solution here, I said ban pets from BGs, let's hear your solution.
Existence of a problem is confirmed, if you think my solution is too absurd, say your piece.
Simple. Do what every other person does when they deal with technical issues-- talk to ZOS rechnical support. Report the lag as a bug, maybe. Banning every sorc or warden's pets isn't the solution.
I don't need to take that path, I show the right path. Leave the game aside, I don't take pain to write my issues on right forums. People need to know, where I post and see what I am saying. It works as people who need to know what I am thinking would keep a close eye where I post.
Though I think, ZOS would lack resources to do that, so I post on their forums. I think they should know reason for my passive aggressiveness and it's not going away until some earlier issues are resolved and only one solution is acceptable to me.
No one should have unresolved issues with me, they should remember how nice a person I was until those issues, and now I am too passively aggressive that even I can't tell what would make me mad.0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »another "nerf sorc" thread
Not a nerf sorc thread, a nerf petstacking thread. I main a magsorc (loosely speaking — I play every class more or less equally) and I effing hate pet stacking in BGs, because it makes it near impossible to target other players.
Bad magsorcs think they need pets to be effective. They’re wrong.1 -
Imryll✭✭✭✭✭So long as you're willing for sorcs to designate four slots worth of abilities that other classes can't slot in BGs. Among other things you're saying that sorcs should have to slot a resto staff if they want on-demand healing. And re-gear if they use necropotence.Edited by Imryll on April 18, 2019 12:52PM3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »
Yes, and people are abusing that in BGs. How is it right that one premade group can surround themselves with up to sixteeen targetable entities in an area designed for small scale PVP, gaining what essentially amounts to free mitigation without having to invest into resistances at all? If a pet group has enough brain cells to rub together to kite effectively, all they have to do is heavy attack and spam wrath/curse in divines gear behind their pet zerg to outplay a sorcerer who has invested in appropriate defenses and actually has the skill required to block/dodge roll/sustain while still dishing out high damage.
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Imryll✭✭✭✭✭Sorc defenses have been systematically eroded via nerfs, the increasing cost on streak, 6-second shields of reduced size, nerfs to sustain that make it difficult to use heavy armor, and nerfs to a variety of control abilities--like losing the stun on frags. Pets are what's left, and bugs related to them are being fixed in Elsweyr. If the community didn't want sorcs to use pets, they shouldn't have begged for the other nerfs.
If you want to ban pets, you need to tell us how you think pet classes should be buffed to compensate.Edited by Imryll on April 18, 2019 1:04PM3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So long as you're willing for sorcs to designate four slots worth of abilities that other classes can't slot in BGs. Among other things you're saying that sorcs should have to slot a resto staff if they want on-demand healing. And re-gear if they use necropotence.
My magsorc uses a resto staff on back bar, and is usually the top scorer in most deathmatches. I am in a fairly high MMR tier on my server. Do you have ANY IDEA how strong Life Giver is? It’s extremely cheap, and way more effective in a dangerous situation than the Matriarch. Also, if you free up those four skill slots, you have room for Boundless Storm, Power Surge, Inner Light, and Dark Conversion. With Innate Axiom, I have no need for an offensive ultimate because I can easily delete most players (tanks and DKs with wings up being the exception) with a quick, simple rotation of Curse, Reach, Frags (which is procced and ready to go 99% of the time thanks to Inner Light), and Wrath. Frags, Wrath, and Curse hit extremely hard with Innate Axiom.
Pets are little more than cheese. If you build your sorc appropriately, you don’t need cheese to be the most dangerous player in a deathmatch.Edited by Aurielle on April 18, 2019 1:03PM0 -
DocDova✭✭✭I have a sorc, I would run heavy armor on him and with no pets. Let me see, how that fares.
Meanwhile do you think, it's ok to have preformed pet sorc builds teams running 3 pets each ? Do you think there is some kind of secret society doing this, fighting for sorcerers honor or opportunist people exploiting it ? (You can replace sorc with werewolves in this paragraph).
I run with a team, we are ok, each has his/her own build.0 -
Myrkgrav✭✭✭✭I play with over 100ping and potato monopolized internet connection and i don't lag in BGs under pet pressure. Hardware is my guess.
Morty | ♂ | @morti_macabre | PC NA | EST
Member of Knights of the Sanguine, Sheogorath's Mortals & Sword Coast Traders0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorry I should have added that information in first post itself, seems its late now I cant edit.
System: Basic PS4
Internet type: Fiber optic
Internet speed: 20-25 Mbps on average
Ping 30-40 ms on average.
I think if non productive, disruptive, personally focused posts would be removed, more people would come forward who are facing same issue.
Hmm. I’m on PS4 and pets are more a targeting annoyance than anything.
Your original post suggests it’s some kind of exploit, which its not.
I do the same thing with a Stam DK and WW Pack leader. It’s a hoot when a Mag Sorc does his combo on my wolf pet while I’m clobbering the Sorc.
Of course I like steak. I'm a Nord, aren't I?
-Berj Stoneheart0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have a sorc, I would run heavy armor on him and with no pets. Let me see, how that fares.
Meanwhile do you think, it's ok to have preformed pet sorc builds teams running 3 pets each ? Do you think there is some kind of secret society doing this, fighting for sorcerers honor or opportunist people exploiting it ? (You can replace sorc with werewolves in this paragraph).
I run with a team, we are ok, each has his/her own build.
You don’t even need heavy armor, Doc. I run 5L/1H/1M. Running Curse Eater in addition to Innate Axiom, which keeps the dots at bay (if you’re running Power Surge, your crit hits give a direct heal every one second, which procs Curse Eater whenever it’s off cooldown — you can also have more control over it with Conversion). The best defense is often an extremely good offence. A sorc in a 5L/1M/1H full impen setup with Innate Axiom and Temporal Guard on front bar hits like a truck and is tough to kill.
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Imryll✭✭✭✭✭So long as you're willing for sorcs to designate four slots worth of abilities that other classes can't slot in BGs. Among other things you're saying that sorcs should have to slot a resto staff if they want on-demand healing. And re-gear if they use necropotence.
My magsorc uses a resto staff on back bar, and is usually the top scorer in most deathmatches. I am in a fairly high MMR tier on my server. Do you have ANY IDEA how strong Life Giver is? It’s extremely cheap, and way more effective in a dangerous situation than the Matriarch. Also, if you free up those four skill slots, you have room for Boundless Storm, Power Surge, Inner Light, and Dark Conversion. With Innate Axiom, I have no need for an offensive ultimate because I can easily delete most players (tanks and DKs with wings up being the exception) with a quick, simple rotation of Curse, Reach, Frags (which is procced and ready to go 99% of the time thanks to Inner Light), and Wrath. Frags, Wrath, and Curse hit extremely hard with Innate Axiom.
Pets are little more than cheese. If you build your sorc appropriately, you don’t need cheese to be the most dangerous player in a deathmatch.
I've actually, never used more than one pet, and I know that there are great resto abilities. I've been using Boundless Storm and Crit Surge. Mostly, I dislike the bar arrangement forced by not using two destro staves. Having to group abilities by staff type rather than the sequence in which I like to use them is an annoyance I can't get past. I always use a resto staff while leveling, but once I've leveled the staff and its abilities, I tend to revert to what I personally find comfortable. Perhaps if I were a better player, I'd feel differently. In any case, while the Matriarch and I do play in Cyrodiil, I've yet to do a BG.Edited by Imryll on April 18, 2019 3:17PM0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So long as you're willing for sorcs to designate four slots worth of abilities that other classes can't slot in BGs. Among other things you're saying that sorcs should have to slot a resto staff if they want on-demand healing. And re-gear if they use necropotence.
My magsorc uses a resto staff on back bar, and is usually the top scorer in most deathmatches. I am in a fairly high MMR tier on my server. Do you have ANY IDEA how strong Life Giver is? It’s extremely cheap, and way more effective in a dangerous situation than the Matriarch. Also, if you free up those four skill slots, you have room for Boundless Storm, Power Surge, Inner Light, and Dark Conversion. With Innate Axiom, I have no need for an offensive ultimate because I can easily delete most players (tanks and DKs with wings up being the exception) with a quick, simple rotation of Curse, Reach, Frags (which is procced and ready to go 99% of the time thanks to Inner Light), and Wrath. Frags, Wrath, and Curse hit extremely hard with Innate Axiom.
Pets are little more than cheese. If you build your sorc appropriately, you don’t need cheese to be the most dangerous player in a deathmatch.
I've actually, never used more than one pet, and I know that there are great resto abilities. I've been using Boundless Storm and Crit Surge. Mostly, I dislike the bar arrangement forced by not using two desto staves. Having to group abilities by staff type rather than the sequence in which I like to use them is an annoyance I can't get passed. I always use a resto staff while leveling, but once I've leveled the staff and its abilities, I tend to revert to what I personally find comfortable. Perhaps if I were a better player, I'd feel differently. In any case, while the Matriarch and I do play in Cyrodiil, I've yet to do a BG.
I can see where you’re coming from. I’ve gotten around that issue by setting up my bars based on whether it’s delayed/instant damage, and based on whether it’s a buff/heal/damage ability.
Front Bar: Frags, Wrath, Force Pulse, Reach, Inner Light, Temporal Guard
Back Bar: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Empowered Ward (for the minor intellect), Haunting Curse, Dark Conversion, Life Giver
I only have to cast Surge and Boundless every so often, so they’re fine on the back bar. Curse can be cast once and forgotten about until the second explosion hits, so it’s fine to put on the back bar. Dark Conversion is best on back bar, because the heal component is buffed by the resto staff passives. Front bar consists of instant single target damage skills (Inner Light and Temp Guard aside), all of which are buffed by flame staff passives. It makes the most sense to put Temporal Guard on the bar where you spend most of your time, as you receive the most benefit from the Major Protection buff that way.
Give it a try, sometime: I can almost guarantee you that you won’t miss your Matriarch.
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Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am not asking sorcerer to be nerfed, I don't want any kind of change in their skill line up. I am just stating the problem I am facing, I don't know how prevalent this problem is either. But if we talk about it, we will know prevalence of this problem.
I don't mind getting killed in battlegrounds, I have faced way better teams when I started doing BG's, where they would be farming us at our base, they kill me and I would always jump down to be killed again. I don't mind invisible NBs ganking me, I don't mind teams running sload's, But when I sign up for 12 player battleground and I am getting 24 enemies, It cause lag for me. (didn't seem like framerate drop, as that would be more like slow motion ?)
Why I don't face lag when I am in a BG where there aren't entire teams made up of sorcerer ?
Then don't play bgs. When you play bgs you sign up for it all. You don't get to pick and choose who and what you will face. This is a nerf thread clear and simple. So adapt or quit....
Smh the entitlement4
This discussion has been closed.