Master Destro staff

Lord-Otto

Juhasow wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Master destro is too weak TBH. You have to give up a 4 pc and 5 pc set bonus to use it, and it only serves to make one skill usable. I hope to see a perfected version released soon so I can go back to using Clench/Reach without sabotaging my own build.

Its not necessarely sabotaging your build, since there are quite some sets, which only needs to be one barred. Using such sets in a build makes your sacrifice very small (one single set bonus actually) compared to what you gain by arena weapons. Sure some arena weapons arent even good, but saying master reach is balanced, because you sacrifice something for it is not really true.

ZOS logic some months ago is that ccs shoudld not be paired with high damage. Master reach would fall into that category, since its direct damage exceeds force pulse damage and also has a dot attached. Problematic is the direct damage tooltip, which can be very high, above single target spammable standards, which in the vision of ZOS shouldnt be the case. A fair change in my mind is to move the damage increase of master staves to its dot component or replace it with a debuff.

God, no!
It's being used as a spammable, and that means upfront damage. Dizzying still stuns and requires no set. Giving up two permanent five pieces (Necro+Shackle/Bright-Throat) or an additional frontbar Willpower is quite a sacrifice.
And worry not, that is exactly why ZOS' design philosophy is still intact: it's not a spammable with a CC attached - it's the gear on top. Compare that to Infernal Guardian hitting after a CC move like Streak. Same thing, two set pieces to get additional burst. Comboed with an average-damage CC skill. Cooldown as long as CC immunity, so practically spammable. No contradiction here.

Dizzying is an expensive 1 second cast time meele ability with just upfront damage so there is huge difference between that and instant cast , cheap range ability with DoT on top of it.

Philospphy may not be bad but implementation of it and current numbers are overtuned.

Infernal guardian is not hitting after a CC. It requires shield to cast. It's a proc set that cant crit while master destro proc component can crit. Infernal guardian have cooldown and cannot be targeted at anyone You want when master destro have no cooldown and You can target anyone You want with it. There is many more differences like that making sets like infernal guardian inferior when compared to master destro.

Oh, you can time IG to hit after a CC. It's unreliable in group fights, but so is single-target Reach. I chose IG as an example because it's a two-piece. But you could also compare it to Caluurion. Point is, weakening your whole setup by two set pieces just to enhance one skill is quite the cost. One that Dizzying does not pay. And for the record, cast time is Dizzying's bane. That needs to be looked at.

Also, we wouldn't be using Master staves if our damage skills still stunned. It's fairly obvious how important that is. Master is just a band-aid.
Besides, can we please just enjoy useful gear we earned? Or do you wanna turn Clown Crates into ESO's endgame?

Joy_Division

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would use a specific weapon that only modifies one skill - and thus weakens every other skill and restricts them to use a few specific armor sets - just to turn a skill that CCs into a force pulse clone?

Bashev

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would use a specific weapon that only modifies one skill - and thus weakens every other skill and restricts them to use a few specific armor sets - just to turn a skill that CCs into a force pulse clone?

People use it with specific resource sets that are very efficient as a back bar and if you have them in both bars is more of a lost for you than a benefit.

At least in no CP EU it is very popular weapon. The reason is that it is cheap, it is your spamable and it is your CC. In no CP it is way easier to drain the resources of your opponent. Then you dont care so much that you cannot control the CC immunity. I will be fine if the skill is used in a tactical way but as a spamable CC, I think there is no place in PvP.

WrathOfInnos

Juhasow wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Right now the modification of this skill is too strong. My proposal is the damage should be increased to 2.5k (which is added to the skill so it can crit) and 30% cost reduction but the CC effect should be removed. Otherwise the skill should be considered as an exception as it does CC and it is a spamable instant cast attack at the same time. Back in the time wrecking blow lost the stun, now snipe is losing the major defile and these skills are with cast time. I think that the master staff should keep the damage and the cost reduction but it should lose the CC part.

Now some maths:
Stats:
3k spell damage 30k magicka
Force Pulse:

• damage: 1893*3 = 5679
• cost: 2700

Destructive Reach:

• damage: 3690 + 2000 = 5690 (+ 4916 DoT)
• cost: 3802 * 0.7 = 2661

At the end Destructive Reach is same cost, same damage if we dont count the dot but we have the CC.

Now if you have more cost reduction the Destructive Reach is getting way cheaper than Force Pulse

Lets check the cost for 5 light armor breton character. That is 10% + 7% extra cost reduction.
Force Pulse cost will be: 2700*0.83 = 2241
Destructive Reach cost will be: 3802*0.53 = 2015

The more % cost reduction you stack the cheaper the skill will be.

Yeah, and you are giving up a front bar 5 piece as a tradeoff. If anything, this could use a small buff. If you die to a destructive reach spam, you have a L2P issue. As this is a CC (cooldown) and a DOT (timer), it's not meant to be spammed anyways. It can also be dodged and reflected. It's arguably the most telegraphed skill in the game. Those fire rings are hard to miss.

Are You actually "giving up" that space ? The thing is You still have 3 piece bonus of other set active at all the time plus since 2 handed weapons were changed to count as 2 items You can easily use some 5 piece bonus set on back bar without loosing any effectiveness. Even before many builds were doing that and simply using things like willpower destro on the front bar. So at the end You loose barely anything but You gain bar space since now You have stun built into Your spammable and You also get the cheapest and the strongest hitting spammable with DoT component that is also a weapon ability which also have benefits (higher chance to proc poisons/enchantments for example). It's far better then many 5 piece set bonuses on it's own and fact that You can still slot that 5 piece bonus set on back bar just makes master destro even stronger.

Dont bother! They know exactly how strong is the mater staff, they just dont want to be nerfed because they enjoy using it. Do you think that if I make a topic nerf some stupid skill as soul trap people will start writing and trying to defend that the skill is not good? I bet noone will bother. Some ppl will just laugh at the topic and that is.

It was strong from Clockwork City patch (when it was changed to current effect) until Summerset release when we were given the ability to run 5-5-2 with a staff. There’s no way the 2k additional damage (halved in PVP) is going to outweigh any of the following set bonuses on front bar:
- Spinner’s 3450 Spell Pen + 129 Spell Dmg
- Spell Strategist 629 Spell Dmg
- Amber plasm 250 mag recovery + 250 stam recovery + 129 Spell Dmg
- Shacklebreaker 2000 Magicka + 2000 Stamina + 129 Mag Recovery + 129 Stam Recovery
- Or any proc set that deals burst damage

Alternatively you could give up a 2pc monster helm set like Slimecraw, Zaan or Earthgore, which would also be a detriment to your build.

Nobody runs their primary spammable on back bar, so slotting Master Destro there is not an option. And single bar sets completed only on back bar are significantly weaker than any of the sets I listed above (Lich is the only one I would really consider useful, and it is obviously inferior to Amber Plasm).

I used to use the Master Destro, it was fun. I’d like to use it again someday, when it catches up with game balancing. I’m definitely opposed to nerfing an already weak set, just because somebody was killed by it in PvP.

I would like to remind You that all damage is cut in half in Cyrodill so most of the sets You've mentioned is also being halved In Cyrodill because whatever damage boost those sets will give You outside of Cyrodill it'll be halved inside it which is basically the same as with master destro.

Still I could agree that just 2k proc wouldnt outweight those mentioned by You sets.But it's not just "2k additional dmg". It's one of the few proc sets with numeric components that can crit because it's part of ability tooltip not separate proc so it's getting all damage increases that destructive reach underlies including 10% spell penetration from destruction stuff tree. Second of all it turns reach into Your spammable making it one of the cheapest spammabels in the game while also having one of the better tooptips if we consider 1st tick of DoT as a part of spamming it and whole DoT when You let it tick. It also have CC within it so You are not forced to slot CC anymore on Your bars which saves You 1 additional skill slot. Fact that You dont have to use any CC also saves You additional amount of magicka since usually CCs are more expensive then spammable abilities and when CC is avoided You would normally have to cast it second time casuing even higher loss of magicka when in case of master destro You'll simply land that stun sooner or later and You doont have to bother with draining Your magicka for that.

As for wasting that 4 piece bonuses from other sets it's not that big of a deal to be honest. You can either use willpower jewelery which is basically almost compensating for that 4 piece bonus or You can use 4 and 5 piece bonus of some set on 2nd bar. basically we can compare master destro to just 5th piece bonuses of some sets.

So lets summarize it. Master destro is 2k crittable proc that can be affected by all percentage bonuses with 10% penetration that frees up 1 skill slot which improves sustain of the user and provides him with way easier way to stun enemies. It doesnt look like "2k additional dmg" anymore isnt it ? It sounds like having 3x average or 2x good 5 piece bonus set on 1 item.

In PVE the ability for the 2k damage to Crit is significant, since this could result in nearly double the average damage (still not good enough to use Master Destro for PVE DPS though). In PVP the effect of the crit is much less significant. Most opponents are wearing Impen, so crits don’t hit hard. On top of that, players typically have lower crit damage multipliers in PvP (CP’s more spread out or disabled, less bar space for things like Accelerate or trap). The lower crit damage means that Crit sets like Mother’s Sorrow and Advancing Yokeda are not meta in PVP, so Crit Chance is rarely above 50%, further decreasing the impact of Master Destro’s ability to crit. You’d be lucky to see a 25% increase in the 2k proc from crits in PVP.

Minalan

You lose a five piece front bar, take spell strat for example, that's ONE THOUSAND spell damage, buffed. With an extremely high up time to boot.

Compared to the asylum perfected weapons, master destro is kind of BAD. Applying three status effects 100 percent of the time, every other force pulse.

Master destro is a compromise build option used by people who need the CC (because someone decided to nerf shalks) or want to slot one more skill on their bar (sorcs). It's not the BEST option by any means, and it is not overpowered.

I can't believe were arguing about this garbage when there asylum bow Snipes are still in the game. Do you people even understand what that does? I'm guessing not, you're here blubbering about getting stunned every five seconds in PVP.

Emma_Overload

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would use a specific weapon that only modifies one skill - and thus weakens every other skill and restricts them to use a few specific armor sets - just to turn a skill that CCs into a force pulse clone?

SHHH! I don't want peeps to figure out that your build is way better off if you just sacrifice a couple jewelry enchants to cost reduction if you want to spam Reach (or anything else)!

iCaliban

Something can be strong without being OP. Clench can be dodged, blocked, and only applies CC once every 6 seconds like every other cc in the game. If you are getting destroyed by it, maybe l2p?

Im sure if you gave sorcs back their stun on frags, wardens on fissure, templars on anything, they wouldnt need this weapon to survive.

This thread reeks of a stam player who doesnt understand why he cant kill the one competent ranged player he has fought

ruikkarikun

Nerf YOUR BRAIn a bit. TY.

Lord-Otto

iCaliban wrote: »

Something can be strong without being OP. Clench can be dodged, blocked, and only applies CC once every 6 seconds like every other cc in the game. If you are getting destroyed by it, maybe l2p?

Im sure if you gave sorcs back their stun on frags, wardens on fissure, templars on anything, they wouldnt need this weapon to survive.

This thread reeks of a stam player who doesnt understand why he cant kill the one competent ranged player he has fought

Have a virtual cookie!
(^_^)-O
Quick, take it before I eat it myself! >:3

I, I tried eating it. Typing with my old phone now, the other one has bites in it. (>.<)

Datthaw

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

The most ridiculous thing about this thread is this set has been in the game for years. No one has ever complained about it talk about how it being o p or any of that the only complaints have been it's hard to obtain. Now all the sudden when Wings get nerfed people start crying about it.

Previous version were simply not strong enough to raise complains. There were complains about that weapon ever since it was changed to 2k proc and 30% cost reduction. There was just not enough of those since huge amount of players in PvP jumped to use that weapon and it's obvious generally people wont complain about stuff that is good for them even if it overperforms.

And when did this change come about? I feel like it's been that way for about 2 years now I could be wrong but it seems right. Now you're telling me in the last 2 Years everybody has thought this is overpowered but nobody has said anything until now... when Wings have been nerfed.

It was like 18 months ago. The thing is it was getting also side buffs since that moment. For example for some time magsorcs were using rune cage because how broken it was but because it was nerfed pretty hard they moved to use that set. Changes to 2 handed weapons being count as 2 items also made master weapons way better since after that change You can wear 5/5/2 setup and master destro on front bar on top of that.

In clockwork city there was an increase of duration for the wings and later on there was snare removal added on top of that so for short period of time there was slightly more dks then usual since they wanted to check new changes but those numbers later on started to drop. Initial slight increase in numbers of dk was keeping master destro reach spammers in check. Wings were the only natural counter keeping that weapon from being braindead strong CC spam. Now when reflection is gone it's highly possible we'll see way more builds running with master destro simply because of how strong it is when it doesnt have counters.

Also there were people that were raising their concerns about turning reach into cheap high dmg spammable with CC ever since master destro got reworked in clockwork city. Like I said previously You wont see many people complaining about certain stuff if it's used by many of them and it's part of many builds for almost every class. Basically every magicka class can have a setup currently that can use that weapon effectively and class that fits the less to use it is dk which is the only class that can deal with it so it's no suprise not many people complain if so many people is using it. If 50% of Cyrodill would run with snipe You would also see less complains about that ability.

And how is this any different than any arena set? How many stam specs use master dw? The point I'm making is you don't NEED to use it, it's not overperforming at all, it's a viable alternative build.

Stop trying to ruin everything unique

Like really

Stop crying

Datthaw

Bashev wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would use a specific weapon that only modifies one skill - and thus weakens every other skill and restricts them to use a few specific armor sets - just to turn a skill that CCs into a force pulse clone?

People use it with specific resource sets that are very efficient as a back bar and if you have them in both bars is more of a lost for you than a benefit.

At least in no CP EU it is very popular weapon. The reason is that it is cheap, it is your spamable and it is your CC. In no CP it is way easier to drain the resources of your opponent. Then you dont care so much that you cannot control the CC immunity. I will be fine if the skill is used in a tactical way but as a spamable CC, I think there is no place in PvP.

It gives no more a disadvantage in resources when it comes to breaking ccs than any other class. I mean on w/e it's a spammable, OK , cool, but you still have cc immunity. Like I'm sorry it's hard for some people to count but it's not rocket science. It's exactly the same as the dk who fossilizes you on cd, the nb who fears you on cd, the templar who bubbles you on cd, the sorc who rune cages you on cd, the warden who... yeah....

ItsBigPoppa

Can’t dodge or block the giant, easy to see fireball flying at you, so you want it nerfed. I use master staff only to free up a space on my bar, I do a lot more damage with runecage and pulse. In a game with stuns like fossilise, and master bows that give 500 weapon damage on a poison inject, you complain about master staff clench?

Juhasow

Datthaw wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

The most ridiculous thing about this thread is this set has been in the game for years. No one has ever complained about it talk about how it being o p or any of that the only complaints have been it's hard to obtain. Now all the sudden when Wings get nerfed people start crying about it.

Previous version were simply not strong enough to raise complains. There were complains about that weapon ever since it was changed to 2k proc and 30% cost reduction. There was just not enough of those since huge amount of players in PvP jumped to use that weapon and it's obvious generally people wont complain about stuff that is good for them even if it overperforms.

And when did this change come about? I feel like it's been that way for about 2 years now I could be wrong but it seems right. Now you're telling me in the last 2 Years everybody has thought this is overpowered but nobody has said anything until now... when Wings have been nerfed.

It was like 18 months ago. The thing is it was getting also side buffs since that moment. For example for some time magsorcs were using rune cage because how broken it was but because it was nerfed pretty hard they moved to use that set. Changes to 2 handed weapons being count as 2 items also made master weapons way better since after that change You can wear 5/5/2 setup and master destro on front bar on top of that.

In clockwork city there was an increase of duration for the wings and later on there was snare removal added on top of that so for short period of time there was slightly more dks then usual since they wanted to check new changes but those numbers later on started to drop. Initial slight increase in numbers of dk was keeping master destro reach spammers in check. Wings were the only natural counter keeping that weapon from being braindead strong CC spam. Now when reflection is gone it's highly possible we'll see way more builds running with master destro simply because of how strong it is when it doesnt have counters.

Also there were people that were raising their concerns about turning reach into cheap high dmg spammable with CC ever since master destro got reworked in clockwork city. Like I said previously You wont see many people complaining about certain stuff if it's used by many of them and it's part of many builds for almost every class. Basically every magicka class can have a setup currently that can use that weapon effectively and class that fits the less to use it is dk which is the only class that can deal with it so it's no suprise not many people complain if so many people is using it. If 50% of Cyrodill would run with snipe You would also see less complains about that ability.

And how is this any different than any arena set? How many stam specs use master dw? The point I'm making is you don't NEED to use it, it's not overperforming at all, it's a viable alternative build.

Stop trying to ruin everything unique

Like really

Stop crying

Well it's is different from many other arena weapons on multiple levels many of which I already explained in previous posts. I would say percentage wise less stam users runs with master dual wield them mag users runs with master destro. Your point is like saying that water is wet. Everyone knows You dont have to run it but that doest instantly means that weapon si not overperforming in certain scenarios. Alternative is something used by people who cannot get BiS and that weapon is one of the BiS. I dont really see people going into vDSA just to get "alternative" build. Especially those who pys for carries just to get that weapon doesnt seem to be interrested in alternatives they just want strongest stuff they can get. Actualy many people is using alternative setups because they dont have that weapon.

Nodoby is trying to ruin that weapon but rather to point out that current numbers are overtuned. I wouldnt call it that unique since after all it's just allows You to have spammable the only unique thing about that is this spammable You get is hands down the best spammable in the game for mag users.

The person closets to crying here seems to be You tbh.

Datthaw

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

The most ridiculous thing about this thread is this set has been in the game for years. No one has ever complained about it talk about how it being o p or any of that the only complaints have been it's hard to obtain. Now all the sudden when Wings get nerfed people start crying about it.

Previous version were simply not strong enough to raise complains. There were complains about that weapon ever since it was changed to 2k proc and 30% cost reduction. There was just not enough of those since huge amount of players in PvP jumped to use that weapon and it's obvious generally people wont complain about stuff that is good for them even if it overperforms.

And when did this change come about? I feel like it's been that way for about 2 years now I could be wrong but it seems right. Now you're telling me in the last 2 Years everybody has thought this is overpowered but nobody has said anything until now... when Wings have been nerfed.

It was like 18 months ago. The thing is it was getting also side buffs since that moment. For example for some time magsorcs were using rune cage because how broken it was but because it was nerfed pretty hard they moved to use that set. Changes to 2 handed weapons being count as 2 items also made master weapons way better since after that change You can wear 5/5/2 setup and master destro on front bar on top of that.

In clockwork city there was an increase of duration for the wings and later on there was snare removal added on top of that so for short period of time there was slightly more dks then usual since they wanted to check new changes but those numbers later on started to drop. Initial slight increase in numbers of dk was keeping master destro reach spammers in check. Wings were the only natural counter keeping that weapon from being braindead strong CC spam. Now when reflection is gone it's highly possible we'll see way more builds running with master destro simply because of how strong it is when it doesnt have counters.

Also there were people that were raising their concerns about turning reach into cheap high dmg spammable with CC ever since master destro got reworked in clockwork city. Like I said previously You wont see many people complaining about certain stuff if it's used by many of them and it's part of many builds for almost every class. Basically every magicka class can have a setup currently that can use that weapon effectively and class that fits the less to use it is dk which is the only class that can deal with it so it's no suprise not many people complain if so many people is using it. If 50% of Cyrodill would run with snipe You would also see less complains about that ability.

And how is this any different than any arena set? How many stam specs use master dw? The point I'm making is you don't NEED to use it, it's not overperforming at all, it's a viable alternative build.

Stop trying to ruin everything unique

Like really

Stop crying

Well it's is different from many other arena weapons on multiple levels many of which I already explained in previous posts. I would say percentage wise less stam users runs with master dual wield them mag users runs with master destro. Your point is like saying that water is wet. Everyone knows You dont have to run it but that doest instantly means that weapon si not overperforming in certain scenarios. Alternative is something used by people who cannot get BiS and that weapon is one of the BiS. I dont really see people going into vDSA just to get "alternative" build. Especially those who pys for carries just to get that weapon doesnt seem to be interrested in alternatives they just want strongest stuff they can get. Actualy many people is using alternative setups because they dont have that weapon.

Nodoby is trying to ruin that weapon but rather to point out that current numbers are overtuned. I wouldnt call it that unique since after all it's just allows You to have spammable the only unique thing about that is this spammable You get is hands down the best spammable in the game for mag users.

The person closets to crying here seems to be You tbh.

Good grief your jumping though hoops to spin your own narrative on what alternative means. Look at you go.

techprince

I have been using Master Destro Build on my MagPlar since a year. Now its weak since staves and 2H counts as 2 slots, Asylum Destro and i am missing Major Sorcery buff due to slot restrictions.
At that time, i used Skoria + BSW + Master Destro + Wizard's Riposte. I have been experimenting with Pirate Skeleton + Desert Rose + Master Destro + Pariah. Might switch Pariah to either Leech or Transmutation and Desert Rose with Rattlecage.

StarOfElyon

Heimpai wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's a bad idea. You take away the stun and no one will use these weapons. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

-MagWardens used it replace the stun loss from Fissure
-MagSorcs used it to replace the stun loss from Frags
-MagPlars used it to replace the stun loss from Blazing Spear

The knockback/stun is the reason they are used. If your idea is to just make it a cheaper Force Pulse, with no stun then why would I not slot Elemental Weapon instead and get a permanent 5-set bonus?

The only acceptable nerfs are either to decrase the cost reduction, or reduce the dmg buff. Not lose the base skill's functionality, which would arguably make it worse than without a master weapon.

Cool but will ppl use it if the damage is removed? I am fine with that too. Cheep CC with small damage sounds balanced for me.

Wow, i didn’t realize blocking was so hard

If you have enough stamina to block and break free consistently with this being spammed on you then no, it's not so hard.

Galarthor

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would use a specific weapon that only modifies one skill - and thus weakens every other skill and restricts them to use a few specific armor sets - just to turn a skill that CCs into a force pulse clone?

@Joy_Division
Simple: When you class lacks a reliable / viable CC, you need to get it somewhere else.
Unfortunately, there are not a whole lot of viable CCs out there outside of the class skill lines.
And then there is also the issue with bar space - especially on sorcs.

So what can you do?
Slot Destructive Reach as a CC (Vulcanic Rune is just not reliable and Time Stop is just too clumsy and expensive for single targets). But this only exacerbates the bar space issue. Also the stun is comparatively expensive and easy to avoid - which essentially means it is even more expensive. Master Staff addresses both of these issue: it makes a moderately relaible CC appropriately cheap and it allows a bar space starved class / classes to gain a bar slot by combining the spammable with a CC.

It also has the nice side effect of putting pressure on those perma-dodging stamblades, b/c they will have to keep dodging lest they risk getting stunned after all.

And then there is the LAG. Having a 2 in 1 ability means you will have to spam 1 ability less and hoping that lag will allow it to hit the target (in time).

Do I like Destructive Reach? Hell No! Not even with a Master's Staff.
Do I need it? Unfortunately, yes . Both Rune Cage and Streak just have too many issues for using them as main CCs.

Joy_Division

Galarthor wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would use a specific weapon that only modifies one skill - and thus weakens every other skill and restricts them to use a few specific armor sets - just to turn a skill that CCs into a force pulse clone?

@Joy_Division
Simple: When you class lacks a reliable / viable CC, you need to get it somewhere else.
Unfortunately, there are not a whole lot of viable CCs out there outside of the class skill lines.
And then there is also the issue with bar space - especially on sorcs.

So what can you do?
Slot Destructive Reach as a CC (Vulcanic Rune is just not reliable and Time Stop is just too clumsy and expensive for single targets). But this only exacerbates the bar space issue. Also the stun is comparatively expensive and easy to avoid - which essentially means it is even more expensive. Master Staff addresses both of these issue: it makes a moderately relaible CC appropriately cheap and it allows a bar space starved class / classes to gain a bar slot by combining the spammable with a CC.

It also has the nice side effect of putting pressure on those perma-dodging stamblades, b/c they will have to keep dodging lest they risk getting stunned after all.

And then there is the LAG. Having a 2 in 1 ability means you will have to spam 1 ability less and hoping that lag will allow it to hit the target (in time).

Do I like Destructive Reach? Hell No! Not even with a Master's Staff.
Do I need it? Unfortunately, yes . Both Rune Cage and Streak just have too many issues for using them as main CCs.

Yeah I know.

The person I'm responding to legit wants to turn Reach into a force pulse clone that you need a special staff to run.

Ozazz

is he really crying about a master destro! omfg

Ozazz

hey forget every nerf that the sorcerer has endured=Most in game, "but you know that one exclusive weapon, not the one you already nerfed but the other in game that's 1 dimensional for builds, they need to nerf it for another indirect nerf to sorcs!"

Sir you need to educate yourself about sorc history and check your privilege!

Juhasow

Datthaw wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

The most ridiculous thing about this thread is this set has been in the game for years. No one has ever complained about it talk about how it being o p or any of that the only complaints have been it's hard to obtain. Now all the sudden when Wings get nerfed people start crying about it.

Previous version were simply not strong enough to raise complains. There were complains about that weapon ever since it was changed to 2k proc and 30% cost reduction. There was just not enough of those since huge amount of players in PvP jumped to use that weapon and it's obvious generally people wont complain about stuff that is good for them even if it overperforms.

And when did this change come about? I feel like it's been that way for about 2 years now I could be wrong but it seems right. Now you're telling me in the last 2 Years everybody has thought this is overpowered but nobody has said anything until now... when Wings have been nerfed.

It was like 18 months ago. The thing is it was getting also side buffs since that moment. For example for some time magsorcs were using rune cage because how broken it was but because it was nerfed pretty hard they moved to use that set. Changes to 2 handed weapons being count as 2 items also made master weapons way better since after that change You can wear 5/5/2 setup and master destro on front bar on top of that.

In clockwork city there was an increase of duration for the wings and later on there was snare removal added on top of that so for short period of time there was slightly more dks then usual since they wanted to check new changes but those numbers later on started to drop. Initial slight increase in numbers of dk was keeping master destro reach spammers in check. Wings were the only natural counter keeping that weapon from being braindead strong CC spam. Now when reflection is gone it's highly possible we'll see way more builds running with master destro simply because of how strong it is when it doesnt have counters.

Also there were people that were raising their concerns about turning reach into cheap high dmg spammable with CC ever since master destro got reworked in clockwork city. Like I said previously You wont see many people complaining about certain stuff if it's used by many of them and it's part of many builds for almost every class. Basically every magicka class can have a setup currently that can use that weapon effectively and class that fits the less to use it is dk which is the only class that can deal with it so it's no suprise not many people complain if so many people is using it. If 50% of Cyrodill would run with snipe You would also see less complains about that ability.

And how is this any different than any arena set? How many stam specs use master dw? The point I'm making is you don't NEED to use it, it's not overperforming at all, it's a viable alternative build.

Stop trying to ruin everything unique

Like really

Stop crying

Well it's is different from many other arena weapons on multiple levels many of which I already explained in previous posts. I would say percentage wise less stam users runs with master dual wield them mag users runs with master destro. Your point is like saying that water is wet. Everyone knows You dont have to run it but that doest instantly means that weapon si not overperforming in certain scenarios. Alternative is something used by people who cannot get BiS and that weapon is one of the BiS. I dont really see people going into vDSA just to get "alternative" build. Especially those who pys for carries just to get that weapon doesnt seem to be interrested in alternatives they just want strongest stuff they can get. Actualy many people is using alternative setups because they dont have that weapon.

Nodoby is trying to ruin that weapon but rather to point out that current numbers are overtuned. I wouldnt call it that unique since after all it's just allows You to have spammable the only unique thing about that is this spammable You get is hands down the best spammable in the game for mag users.

The person closets to crying here seems to be You tbh.

Good grief your jumping though hoops to spin your own narrative on what alternative means. Look at you go.

Go on then tell me then what "alternative setup" stand for in ESO ?

Iskiab

ccfeeling wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Master Destro is a little too good right now.

Really ?

I decon all the time .

I play DSA for fun tho

Yup, keep them.

Every magicka class should be using it or the BRP destro staff. It’s not a sorc only weapon.