Master Destro staff

Bashev

Right now the modification of this skill is too strong. My proposal is the damage should be increased to 2.5k (which is added to the skill so it can crit) and 30% cost reduction but the CC effect should be removed. Otherwise the skill should be considered as an exception as it does CC and it is a spamable instant cast attack at the same time. Back in the time wrecking blow lost the stun, now snipe is losing the major defile and these skills are with cast time. I think that the master staff should keep the damage and the cost reduction but it should lose the CC part.

Now some maths:
Stats:
3k spell damage 30k magicka
Force Pulse:

• damage: 1893*3 = 5679
• cost: 2700

Destructive Reach:

• damage: 3690 + 2000 = 5690 (+ 4916 DoT)
• cost: 3802 * 0.7 = 2661

At the end Destructive Reach is same cost, same damage if we dont count the dot but we have the CC.

Now if you have more cost reduction the Destructive Reach is getting way cheaper than Force Pulse

Lets check the cost for 5 light armor breton character. That is 10% + 7% extra cost reduction.
Force Pulse cost will be: 2700*0.83 = 2241
Destructive Reach cost will be: 3802*0.53 = 2015

The more % cost reduction you stack the cheaper the skill will be.

Emma_Overload

NOPE.

The nerf to Wings hasn't even gone live, and y'all are already trying to shut down "Reach Sorcs" via nerf-crafting? You guys never sleep!

As Ms. Grande would say, "Thank you... NEXT!"

Ramzdonb16_ESO

The weapons have had enough mate, vdsa isn't hard now anyone can get the weapons. I think the need to slot a skill ability is enough reason to keep the deeps on this one.

Alucardo

Bashev wrote: »

Back in the time wrecking blow lost the stun

Flame/Shock reach doesn't have a 20k tooltip

ccmedaddy

Small brain: ZOS making up a new rule ("CC and burst should be seperate") and applying it inconsistently

Expanding brain: nerf master's weapons to confirm to the said rule

Galaxy brain: just forget about the rule and give the stun back to frags and deep fissure

Akinos

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NOPE.

The nerf to Wings hasn't even gone live, and y'all are already trying to shut down "Reach Sorcs" via nerf-crafting? You guys never sleep!

As Ms. Grande would say, "Thank you... NEXT!"

LOL, he never even mentioned sorcs. You know sorcs aren't the only class that use master staves right? Relax and quit being so defensive about the class.

Iki

What if destructive touch would be changed to dot-ability? I mean base-ability, not only with masters staff. No stun but more damage over time instead and less initial damage. It could be like vampires bane and cripple, ranged single target dot with smallish initial dmg and good damage over time and then masters staff would buff both those damages for reasonable amount.

I think it could be intresting if destro skill-line had 2 dots, wall of elements as aoe-dot and then destro touch as stronger single-target dot. Perhaps this could also increase build-diversity when people could choose between single-target or aoe dps.

I agree with OP that as it is now, masters destro is little bit too good. It`s hard to balance if cc is attached to good spammable damage-ability.
People who feel like this would destroy magicka class X in pvp go ask zos for improvements to cc-abilities your class provides.

brandonv516

Master Destro is a little too good right now.

Heimpai

Nerf all arena weapons then

Taleof2Cities

All the magicka PvP players that stack cost reduction beyond light armor (as asserted by the OP) please raise your hand ...

Yep, I didn't think so either ...

karekiz

Ramzdonb16_ESO wrote: »

The weapons have had enough mate, vdsa isn't hard now anyone can get the weapons. I think the need to slot a skill ability is enough reason to keep the deeps on this one.

Well with that logic lets nerf VMA bow

Bashev

It looks like some people dont care for balance

Lord-Otto

Bashev wrote: »

It looks like some people dont care for balance

Obviously. They even make threads about nerfing arena weapons.

DisgracefulMind

You do realize that clench/reach are some classes only real valid option for cc, right?

Bashev

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

You do realize that clench/reach are some classes only real valid option for cc, right?

And? I dont want CC removed from the skill, just if you modify the skill with master staff then no CC. You trade burst and lower cost for CC. Is sounds fair to me.

It is a brainless idea a spamable damage skill to have a CC, dont you think?

Maulkin

I'm sorry but that's a bad idea. You take away the stun and no one will use these weapons. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

-MagWardens used it replace the stun loss from Fissure
-MagSorcs used it to replace the stun loss from Frags
-MagPlars used it to replace the stun loss from Blazing Spear

The knockback/stun is the reason they are used. If your idea is to just make it a cheaper Force Pulse, with no stun then why would I not slot Elemental Weapon instead and get a permanent 5-set bonus?

The only acceptable nerfs are either to decrease/remove the cost reduction, or decrease/remove the dmg buff. Not lose the base skill's functionality, which would arguably make it worse than without a master weapon.

Bashev

Maulkin wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's a bad idea. You take away the stun and no one will use these weapons. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

-MagWardens used it replace the stun loss from Fissure
-MagSorcs used it to replace the stun loss from Frags
-MagPlars used it to replace the stun loss from Blazing Spear

The knockback/stun is the reason they are used. If your idea is to just make it a cheaper Force Pulse, with no stun then why would I not slot Elemental Weapon instead and get a permanent 5-set bonus?

The only acceptable nerfs are either to decrase the cost reduction, or reduce the dmg buff. Not lose the base skill's functionality, which would arguably make it worse than without a master weapon.

Cool but will ppl use it if the damage is removed? I am fine with that too. Cheep CC with small damage sounds balanced for me.

Heimpai

Bashev wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's a bad idea. You take away the stun and no one will use these weapons. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

-MagWardens used it replace the stun loss from Fissure
-MagSorcs used it to replace the stun loss from Frags
-MagPlars used it to replace the stun loss from Blazing Spear

The knockback/stun is the reason they are used. If your idea is to just make it a cheaper Force Pulse, with no stun then why would I not slot Elemental Weapon instead and get a permanent 5-set bonus?

The only acceptable nerfs are either to decrase the cost reduction, or reduce the dmg buff. Not lose the base skill's functionality, which would arguably make it worse than without a master weapon.

Cool but will ppl use it if the damage is removed? I am fine with that too. Cheep CC with small damage sounds balanced for me.

Wow, i didn’t realize blocking was so hard

Bashev

Heimpai wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's a bad idea. You take away the stun and no one will use these weapons. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

-MagWardens used it replace the stun loss from Fissure
-MagSorcs used it to replace the stun loss from Frags
-MagPlars used it to replace the stun loss from Blazing Spear

The knockback/stun is the reason they are used. If your idea is to just make it a cheaper Force Pulse, with no stun then why would I not slot Elemental Weapon instead and get a permanent 5-set bonus?

The only acceptable nerfs are either to decrase the cost reduction, or reduce the dmg buff. Not lose the base skill's functionality, which would arguably make it worse than without a master weapon.

Cool but will ppl use it if the damage is removed? I am fine with that too. Cheep CC with small damage sounds balanced for me.

Wow, i didn’t realize blocking was so hard

So I have to permablock you spamable skill? Then people start complaining for permablockers. Definitely I can block or roll dodge if you use the skill once in 7-8 seconds.

Maulkin

For the record there are spammable damage skills with hard CC in this game. Like Dizzy or Reverb Bash. What ZOS had a problem with was CC built into burst dmg skills like Frags or Deep Fissure or Wrecking Blow.

I personally have more of a problem with hard CC in spammables, than I have with hard CC in burst skills like Frags and Fissure. Because those are either conditional (frags) or on a timer (Fissure) and in many cases, simply harder to land.

The way I see it the options are:
1) Burst skill with stuns
2) Spammable skills with stuns
3) Stuns only on separate, CC-only skills (Fear, Cage etc)

And to be honest 1) is the most preferable situation for me. While 2) is probably the least favourite.

Bashev

Maulkin wrote: »

For the record there are spammable damage skills with hard CC in this game. Like Dizzy or Reverb Bash. What ZOS had a problem with was CC built into burst dmg skills like Frags or Deep Fissure or Wrecking Blow.

Reverb bash hits for 3269 with 30k stamina and 3k weapon damage. It cost 3159 stamina. It is not comparable to master reach.

Dizzy has cast time so i put in another category.

For the record i think that frags need the stun back and I am fine with it.

frostz417

Never thought I’d say the day where someone cries for a nerf to master weapons

Minalan

brandonv516 wrote: »

Master Destro is a little too good right now.

Try a perfected asylum destro and watch how awesome it is to apply every single status effect on alternating force pulse hits..

Master destro fire staff is tame, it eats up a two piece slot FFS, keep it competitive with someone running a five piece front bar like spinner or spell strat. Dunmer are immune to the fire DOT effect anyways, so keep that in mind as well.

Datthaw

Master destroy is fine, its limited in set use with back bae only, go cry about something else.

anatole1234

you sacrifice having a double bar set for this weapon, I think it's fair. the damage isnt great either, it s heavily telegraphed and blockable and dodgeable. Chill

DisgracefulMind

Bashev wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

You do realize that clench/reach are some classes only real valid option for cc, right?

And? I dont want CC removed from the skill, just if you modify the skill with master staff then no CC. You trade burst and lower cost for CC. Is sounds fair to me.

It is a brainless idea a spamable damage skill to have a CC, dont you think?

Well it's not sustainable without the master staff on those specs that have no cc option. Do you play those specs? You also get your build options cut off by using it. I think it's fine.

What I would prefer is them to give back some CC options to those classes, as it stands now it's overbearingly limiting.

MartiniDaniels

I bet there will be huge wave of "nerf sorcs" threads after U22.

Maulkin

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I bet there will be huge wave of "nerf sorcs" threads after U22.

Well that will be only the 22nd update in a row that this happens lol

WrathOfInnos

Master destro is too weak TBH. You have to give up a 4 pc and 5 pc set bonus to use it, and it only serves to make one skill usable. I hope to see a perfected version released soon so I can go back to using Clench/Reach without sabotaging my own build.

Checkmath

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Master destro is too weak TBH. You have to give up a 4 pc and 5 pc set bonus to use it, and it only serves to make one skill usable. I hope to see a perfected version released soon so I can go back to using Clench/Reach without sabotaging my own build.

Its not necessarely sabotaging your build, since there are quite some sets, which only needs to be one barred. Using such sets in a build makes your sacrifice very small (one single set bonus actually) compared to what you gain by arena weapons. Sure some arena weapons arent even good, but saying master reach is balanced, because you sacrifice something for it is not really true.

ZOS logic some months ago is that ccs shoudld not be paired with high damage. Master reach would fall into that category, since its direct damage exceeds force pulse damage and also has a dot attached. Problematic is the direct damage tooltip, which can be very high, above single target spammable standards, which in the vision of ZOS shouldnt be the case. A fair change in my mind is to move the damage increase of master staves to its dot component or replace it with a debuff.

Bashev

Checkmath wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Master destro is too weak TBH. You have to give up a 4 pc and 5 pc set bonus to use it, and it only serves to make one skill usable. I hope to see a perfected version released soon so I can go back to using Clench/Reach without sabotaging my own build.

Its not necessarely sabotaging your build, since there are quite some sets, which only needs to be one barred. Using such sets in a build makes your sacrifice very small (one single set bonus actually) compared to what you gain by arena weapons. Sure some arena weapons arent even good, but saying master reach is balanced, because you sacrifice something for it is not really true.

ZOS logic some months ago is that ccs shoudld not be paired with high damage. Master reach would fall into that category, since its direct damage exceeds force pulse damage and also has a dot attached. Problematic is the direct damage tooltip, which can be very high, above single target spammable standards, which in the vision of ZOS shouldnt be the case. A fair change in my mind is to move the damage increase of master staves to its dot component or replace it with a debuff.

Thank you! Finally someone who tries to find balance instead of protecting the sets they use.