Recovery Food Changes

WrathOfInnos

The recent change to various food/drink buffs seems to have disrupted the balance they previously had. Let me explain in more detail:

Looking at standard set bonuses, we can see that 129 Magicka or Stamina Recovery is equivalent to 1096 Max Magicka/Stamina or 1206 Max Health. By this logic 1 Recovery = 8.5 Resource = 9.4 Health. This can also be confirmed by Mundus Stone balancing, where 238 Mag/Stam Recovery is balanced with 2028 Max Mag/Stam or 2231 Max Health.

Using these conversion factors we can compare the effective magnitude of different foods as a single stat.

Blue Bistat Food (such as Solitude Salmon Millet Soup)
- 5395 Max Health / 9.4 = 577
- 4936 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 581
- Total effectiveness = 1158
Using this as the baseline for what a food or drink should bring.

Live Witchmother’s Brew (or Dubious Camoran)
- 3192 Max Health / 9.4 = 341
- 3192 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 376
- 319 Magicka Recovery = 319
- Total effectiveness = 1036

5.0.0 Witchmother's Brew (or Dubious Camoran)
- 3451 Max Health / 9.4 = 369
- 3153 Max Magicka = 371
- 357 Magicka Recovery = 357
- Total effectiveness = 1059
-
5.0.1 Witchmother's Brew (or Dubious Camoran)
- 3094 Max Health / 9.4 = 331
- 2856 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 336
- 315 Magicka Recovery = 315
- Total effectiveness = 982

Live Clockwork Citrus Filet (or Artaeum Takeaway)
- 3724 Max Health / 9.4 = 398
- 3458 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 407
- 319 Magicka Recovery = 319
- Total effectiveness = 1097
Not including health regen, since it is largely useless in PVE

5.0.0 PTS Clockwork Citrus Filet (or Artaeum Takeaway)
- 3570 Max Health / 9.4 = 382
- 3272 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 385
- 357 Magicka Recovery = 357
- Total effectiveness = 1124

5.0.1 PTS Clockwork Citrus Filet (or Artaeum Takeaway)
- 3213 Max Health / 9.4 = 343
- 2975 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 350
- 327 Magicka Recovery = 327
- Total effectiveness = 1020

As you can see, regen foods were already slightly underperforming compared to bistat. The reduction in stats on all relevant regen foods is going to disrupt the near-balanced effects outlined above. Additionally, IMO the purple and gold quality foods (that also require more expensive ingredients) should be slightly more effective than the basic blue foods, and this is not going to be the case if these changes go live.

Edit: Double checked numbers on PTS and updated data accordingly. Apparently the current values on PTS 5.0.0 do not at all reflect the nerfs in the patch notes, and some stats were actually buffed. Not sure what to believe at this point so I included everything here.

Edit 2: Added numbers from PTS 5.0.1 and replaced estimates from 5.0.0 Patch notes.

WrathOfInnos

I’ll also add that several other unique foods/drinks are strangely underpowered compared to the original base-game recipes.

Edit: Looks like they are making an effort to improve these on PTS. I’m happy to see this, thanks! New values have been added below.

Live Lava Foot Saltrice
- 4575 Max Stamina / 8.5 = 538
- 457 Stamina Recovery = 457
- Total Effectiveness = 975

5.0.1 Lava Foot Saltrice
- 5117 Max Stamina / 8.5 = 602
- 511 Stamina Recovery = 511
- Total Effectiveness = 1113

Live Ghastly Eye Bowl
- 4256 Max Magicka / 8.5
- 425 Magicka Recovery
- Total effectiveness = 926
Why is this lower than Lava Foot?

5.0.1 Ghastly Eye Bowl
- 4760 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 560
- 476 Magicka Recovery = 476
- Total Effectiveness = 1036
Why is this still lower than Lava Foot?

Live Double Boody Mara
- 4575 Max Health / 9.4 = 489
- 4575 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 538
- Total Effectiveness = 1027

5.0.1 Double Boody Mara
- 5652 Max Health / 9.4 = 605
- 5117 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 602
- Total Effectiveness = 1207

Live Red Frothgar
- 5000 Max Health / 9.4 = 535
- 437 Magicka Recovery = 437
- Total effectiveness = 972

5.0.1 Red Frothgar
- 5593 Max Health / 9.4 = 598
- 511 Magicka Recovery = 511
- Total Effectiveness = 1109

Really if we wanted everything to be balanced around current blue bistat food levels, we would simply make anything that gave 2 stats have an amount equivalent to 511 primary resource regen, 5.1k primary resource or 5.6k health (updated values from latest PTS foods).

Where tri-stat foods/drinks could have any 3 of the following:
- 341 Magicka or Stamina Recovery
- 3.4k Max Magicka or Stamina
- 3.7k Max Health

And quad-stat would be any 4 of the following (however I don’t think Health regen is worth dropping to these values):
- 255 Magicka or Stamina Recovery
- 2.6k Max Magicka or Stamina
- 2.8k Max Health

Personally I don’t think complete equalization is the right approach though. I believe that stats should scale up slightly according to the color quality of the consumable, maybe 0% green, 5% blue, 10% purple, 15% gold. Maybe the values in my previous list could be the gold standard to prevent anything becoming overpowered.

I also think that the stats should scale up slightly for each additional bonus added. The primary resource is always going to be the most useful to a build, and adding additional (less useful, but varied) resources should allow the total dimmed value to be higher. So for example quad-stat bonuses should not be half of bistat, they should be maybe 10% better than half (to account for the diminishing usefulness of hybrid resources). Although this could happen automatically if my previous paragraph comes true, since typically green is single stat, blue is bistat, purple is tri-stat, and gold is quad-stat.

Cortimi

How dare you use math and logic to prove the nerfers wrong!

Tasear

As gold food it should do more and be worth it's very expensive value in game. It will also promote people take that food passive for longer duration.

Mayrael

Tasear wrote: »

As gold food it should do more and be worth it's very expensive value in game. It will also promote people take that food passive for longer duration.

Exactly. But some class (Masel e.g.) reps were pushing this changes. FFS this is how it ends when devs are listening to narrow group of players - they have their interest in this nerf. How brainless is to make golden food weaker then a blue one, when crafting cost is 100x times higher. Gold food should have been buffed to double the duration! Not being nerfed -_-

lassitershawn

With old clockwork and bifood the effectiveness for JUST DPS stats is 720 vs 581 for the evaluation though. Perhaps the HP value on clockwork/witchmother's could be un-nerfed or even buffed and just the max mag nerfed if the devs want to change the competitiveness of the two foods for DPS? Seems unnecessary to nerf the HP and would make the choice more of a sustain vs damage choice instead of sustain vs damage AND survival.

Spizzie

I will promote this post until the end of the PTS cycle. I agree with everything that's being said here, and the numerical evidence is overwhelming. This thread should incite a Dev response, in all honestly. Not only is it considerably more difficult to acquire the recipes for the Purple and Gold food, but they are much more expensive to make. Gold food in particular is hardly even worth the cost of production as-is; there won't be any benefit to making them if these changes go live. The most logical scenario is that they are better, pound for pound, than purple, which would be better than blue. And yet.. they are actually quantitatively worse right now and getting further reduced.

lassitershawn wrote: »

With old clockwork and bifood the effectiveness for JUST DPS stats is 720 vs 581 for the evaluation though. Perhaps the HP value on clockwork/witchmother's could be un-nerfed or even buffed and just the max mag nerfed if the devs want to change the competitiveness of the two foods for DPS? Seems unnecessary to nerf the HP and would make the choice more of a sustain vs damage choice instead of sustain vs damage AND survival.

This this this.

Ratzkifal

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

John_Falstaff

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

...as if bretons totally weren't top dogs already on magicka side, what with them being able to run blue food and no absorb glyph. ^^ The shaky balance between altmer, dunmer and breton just got a punch.

And there's no telling what the "in-between" races are supposed to do. As a khajiit, I'm still lagging behind orc and dunmer, but at the same time, my meager 85 regen won't save me from having to run purple food just like they have to. The problem with forcing 'damage races' to run weakened regen food is the existence of the races that are neither pure damage nor pure sustain. Is there any light violet food I can run to have the intermediate amount of stats and sustain? Yes, I thought not...

jhall03

I think when I'm in PVP and I can't break free due to stamina drain poisons, I want stamina regen, not "total effectiveness"

TheValar85

If i were to ZOS i would not change the foods and drinks instead i would buff them. sustain is sheet in this game now.

MartiniDaniels

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

...as if bretons totally weren't top dogs already on magicka side, what with them being able to run blue food and no absorb glyph. ^^ The shaky balance between altmer, dunmer and breton just got a punch.

And there's no telling what the "in-between" races are supposed to do. As a khajiit, I'm still lagging behind orc and dunmer, but at the same time, my meager 85 regen won't save me from having to run purple food just like they have to. The problem with forcing 'damage races' to run weakened regen food is the existence of the races that are neither pure damage nor pure sustain. Is there any light violet food I can run to have the intermediate amount of stats and sustain? Yes, I thought not...

Breton magplar PVE dps - EZ BiS. Great sustain, great damage, ton of aoe, good crit dmg, no tricky proc skills.

Azyle1

I think the food nerf is the worst out of all of them. I'm pretty much fine with everything else, but the food nerf is just bad bad bad.

IonicKai

Agreed that the food Nerf makes no sense. The excuse that high damage races were beating out sustain races because of the potency of this food sounds great on paper but I think it is wrong that sustain races do higher damage when they have no direct benefits to damage in their passives. That's counter intuitive and confusing to players especially those that are on this game who didn't play MMOs before. I believe the sustain races should be capable of good damage and easier to play for newer or less skilled characters but it should not even come into question that the damage races have the highest potential damage and they should absolutely be able to achieve it without the player being a god or having to sacrifice all survability to do it.

usmcjdking

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

...as if bretons totally weren't top dogs already on magicka side, what with them being able to run blue food and no absorb glyph. ^^ The shaky balance between altmer, dunmer and breton just got a punch.

And there's no telling what the "in-between" races are supposed to do. As a khajiit, I'm still lagging behind orc and dunmer, but at the same time, my meager 85 regen won't save me from having to run purple food just like they have to. The problem with forcing 'damage races' to run weakened regen food is the existence of the races that are neither pure damage nor pure sustain. Is there any light violet food I can run to have the intermediate amount of stats and sustain? Yes, I thought not...

But, like, you don't have to. A single heavy attack is worth like....26 seconds of recovery provided by gold/purple food. Almost a minute if the target is offbalance.

mcagatayg

Mayrael wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

As gold food it should do more and be worth it's very expensive value in game. It will also promote people take that food passive for longer duration.

Exactly. But some class (Masel e.g.) reps were pushing this changes. FFS this is how it ends when devs are listening to narrow group of players - they have their interest in this nerf. How brainless is to make golden food weaker then a blue one, when crafting cost is 100x times higher. Gold food should have been buffed to double the duration! Not being nerfed -_-

I said it in the other thread aswell, if some classes are overperforming with said foods, mainly has too much HP, just nerf that? instead of nerfing other foods and drinks... some changes make no sense at all...

DarkerDreams

This is the problem with class reps and ZOS seeming to only listen to them (if they listen to anyone) We end up with nerfs like this that are cause by like one single person and that in reality will hurt the top performers only a tiny little bit but have a much larger impact on the rest. I'd wager there are many, many more players , myself included, who for various reasons struggle with sustain even when using a "sustain" race with purple/gold food. These are the players who will be hurt the most, ones who already struggle. Lowering health on these means I have to make up for it some where else, probably by adding a health glyph, which just furthers lowers the resource pool which equates to even less damage. It really bothers me that all these nerfs and changes only seem to take top tier players into account who will just adjust their perfect rotations and barely even notice while hurting the rest of the player base more. It's also even more disturbing that like one person can push for something like this and it gets done while we have threads with hundreds of responses about some issues and they get ignored.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO BRETON BLUE FOOD OR GO CRY !

MLGProPlayer

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

...as if bretons totally weren't top dogs already on magicka side, what with them being able to run blue food and no absorb glyph. ^^ The shaky balance between altmer, dunmer and breton just got a punch.

And there's no telling what the "in-between" races are supposed to do. As a khajiit, I'm still lagging behind orc and dunmer, but at the same time, my meager 85 regen won't save me from having to run purple food just like they have to. The problem with forcing 'damage races' to run weakened regen food is the existence of the races that are neither pure damage nor pure sustain. Is there any light violet food I can run to have the intermediate amount of stats and sustain? Yes, I thought not...

The nerf isn't that bad on the PTS (only a loss of about 200 resource and a gain of about 40 regen), but that could be a bug.

If it is a flat 15% reduction to the effectiveness of gold food, Breton becomes the undisputed top dog for all magicka classes (they are already arguably the best race).

MLGProPlayer

usmcjdking wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

...as if bretons totally weren't top dogs already on magicka side, what with them being able to run blue food and no absorb glyph. ^^ The shaky balance between altmer, dunmer and breton just got a punch.

And there's no telling what the "in-between" races are supposed to do. As a khajiit, I'm still lagging behind orc and dunmer, but at the same time, my meager 85 regen won't save me from having to run purple food just like they have to. The problem with forcing 'damage races' to run weakened regen food is the existence of the races that are neither pure damage nor pure sustain. Is there any light violet food I can run to have the intermediate amount of stats and sustain? Yes, I thought not...

But, like, you don't have to. A single heavy attack is worth like....26 seconds of recovery provided by gold/purple food. Almost a minute if the target is offbalance.

Heavy attacking is a huge DPS loss. If you have to do a single extra heavy attack in a rotation, you're better off switching race to Breton.

MLGProPlayer

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

Orc was outdamaging the rest. Orc also benefitted exponentially from gold food because:

1. They get +1000 health
2. They get +300 health regen

Coupled with gold food, they were getting 4700 health and 650 heatlh regen. The problem was always orc and not he food itself.

Altmer/Dunmer were not outdamaging Breton, especially in longer fights. A lot of endgame players were actually using Breton already. Sustaining on magicka is harder than stamina.

This nerf pushes Altmer/Dunmer completely out of the meta for magicka DPS leaving Breton as the only option.

MLGProPlayer

Cortimi wrote: »

How dare you use math and logic to prove the nerfers wrong!

This is what I find most frustrating about ZOS' balance approach. They completely ignore numbers. They just throw *** at the wall and hope something sticks.

They bring up "stat density" as the reason for the nerfs, but don't actually use any math to determine stat density.

Masel

Mayrael wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

As gold food it should do more and be worth it's very expensive value in game. It will also promote people take that food passive for longer duration.

Exactly. But some class (Masel e.g.) reps were pushing this changes. FFS this is how it ends when devs are listening to narrow group of players - they have their interest in this nerf. How brainless is to make golden food weaker then a blue one, when crafting cost is 100x times higher. Gold food should have been buffed to double the duration! Not being nerfed -_-

Once again. Not my idea, not done because I told them to do so.

That isnt how the program works at all. It's not "we present a suggestion, they do it". It's "we give them pain points, they do something they think alleviates them". Then we give feedback based on what they do, and they either adjust things based on it or ignore it.

As a matter of fact, I told them to change orc (reduce health or stamina). I told them that players think the altmer stam passive is weird, I told them that bosmers want their stealth back and gave them reasoning why it'd be good to listen to that feedback. They decided not to and changed foods instead. And I can, as I said in the other thread, understand why they did it: we got the feedback from a lot of players that damage race+sustain food was the ultimately best option for both aspects of the game. I dont know why they haven't touched orc again even though it was a quite clearly superior choice on stamina. They never responded to that question.

And once again, noone here mentions the added health recovery on gold sustain food. The point that health recovery is useless is another discussion that we can talk about, but it has to be taken into consideration.

But you can go scapegoat us all you like.id be interested in the personal agenda I'd be pushing here though. How would nerfing these foods cater to me?

Olupajmibanan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Double Boody Mara (can we make this equivalent to blue bistat at least?)
- 4575 Max Health / 9.4 = 489
- 4575 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 538
- Total Effectiveness = 1027
- Edit: Apparently this was buffed on PTS, now giving 5117 Max Magicka and 5652 Max Health, making it better than blue bistat food, which makes sense since it is a gold quality recipe that requires daedra hearts to make. So thanks!

Are you sure this is intended and not a bug? Because it was not mentioned in the patch notes and a lot of food is currently bugged on PTS in terms of stats.

f047ys3v3n

Thanks for running the numbers. I had always suspected that witchmothers was already weaker than blue food even ignoring the the color difference that suggested it should be stronger. Like you, I thought it pretty strange that ZOS was choosing to nerf it. Seems to me they are looking at those "infernal metrics" again and coming to conclusions that are mathematically incorrect.

It seems obvious to me that players looking to get resources should not be getting them from food. Enchants, sets, or, better yet, going Breton, look the much stronger options. It would be nice if flexibility in where to get resources existed such that you could use food but plainly you would need to buff, not nerf, witchmothers etc. to get to that point and they are instead nerfing it. With any combination food being at least 20% weaker than just doing blue food post patch a player would be pretty unwise to go any other way.

The biggest shame of this is that being able to use food to shift sustain around is really the only way you can do it easily in trials and this is necessary since so much of your sustain is group based. So much failure in this game design. I thought that computer programmers had to take basic algebra courses, guess we would rather poll the player base and nerf what they are using on principle than do those tricky maths.

MLGProPlayer

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Thanks for running the numbers. I had always suspected that witchmothers was already weaker than blue food even ignoring the the color difference that suggested it should be stronger. Like you, I thought it pretty strange that ZOS was choosing to nerf it. Seems to me they are looking at those "infernal metrics" again and coming to conclusions that are mathematically incorrect.

It seems obvious to me that players looking to get resources should not be getting them from food. Enchants, sets, or, better yet, going Breton, look the much stronger options. It would be nice if flexibility in where to get resources existed such that you could use food but plainly you would need to buff, not nerf, witchmothers etc. to get to that point and they are instead nerfing it. With any combination food being at least 20% weaker than just doing blue food post patch a player would be pretty unwise to go any other way.

The biggest shame of this is that being able to use food to shift sustain around is really the only way you can do it easily in trials and this is necessary since so much of your sustain is group based. So much failure in this game design. I thought that computer programmers had to take basic algebra courses, guess we would rather poll the player base and nerf what they are using on principle than do those tricky maths.

Game designers aren't necessarily programmers. Nor do they necessarily have any degrees in statistics. Often times they are just former players (in fact, one of the combat designers for this game is a former player). This is why so many games get balance wrong: they don't have competent people.

BattleAxe

Crazy suggestion and this is based on some realism leave the foods nerfed as they are but allow the use of 1 food and 1 drink together as in real life you usually have a drink with ur meal bahdahbah bah bah

John_Falstaff

usmcjdking wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

...as if bretons totally weren't top dogs already on magicka side, what with them being able to run blue food and no absorb glyph. ^^ The shaky balance between altmer, dunmer and breton just got a punch.

And there's no telling what the "in-between" races are supposed to do. As a khajiit, I'm still lagging behind orc and dunmer, but at the same time, my meager 85 regen won't save me from having to run purple food just like they have to. The problem with forcing 'damage races' to run weakened regen food is the existence of the races that are neither pure damage nor pure sustain. Is there any light violet food I can run to have the intermediate amount of stats and sustain? Yes, I thought not...

But, like, you don't have to. A single heavy attack is worth like....26 seconds of recovery provided by gold/purple food. Almost a minute if the target is offbalance.

It's a loss of damage, it's a hit on gameplay experience with a given race. You're effectively proposing crutches to the (newly introduced by the food nerf) racial imbalances, but it's not the point of the discussion. You're not answering the question "how is it balanced that top-spot bretons stay top and previously balanced altmers/dunmers are pushed down by food nerf", you're answering the question "how to get by if you've been unlucky to choose altmer/dunmer before ZOS decided to nerf you", that's a bit out of scope.

And I'd be interested in seeing the "feedback from a lot of players" too, and know where it came from. I frankly don't see enough dialogue with reps. All I heard between Wrathstone racial balancing and now was "quiet people, racial balancing is okay, it can't be done better because food is imbalances, it's too start dense" - no calculations, no polls, no discussion on how different races would be affected by food nerfs. My own class' rep is missing in action (hello @Quantum_V , how'd you like the new stamDK playstyle with double-barring whip and spamming Noxious? always dreamed of playing stamDK like that). Reps that actually somehow communicate with people get pushed out of the program. I don't have a feeling that it works as intended, unless intention was to pacify the community with illusion of dialogue.

mcagatayg

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

Orc was outdamaging the rest. Orc also benefitted exponentially from gold food because:

1. They get +1000 health
2. They get +300 health regen

Coupled with gold food, they were getting 4700 health and 600 heatlh regen. The problem was always orc and not he food itself.

Altmer/Dunmer were not outdamaging Breton, especially in longer fights. A lot of endgame players were actually using Breton already. Sustaining on magicka is harder than stamina.

This nerf pushes Altmer/Dunmer completely out of the meta for magicka DPS leaving Breton as the only option.

Ez solution > nerf orc.
Bad solution > punish everyone who uses those foods

MLGProPlayer

mcagatayg wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure this is a followup to the wrathstone racial balance. It was said that Orc Dunmer and Altmer were out damaging Bretons, Bosmer and Redguards because these foods made sustain so easy. The approach ZOS has taken seems to be to make these foods still viable for sustain but weaker as a damage boost. Accordingly blue food will become more relevant and so will races that can sustain blue food.

Orc was outdamaging the rest. Orc also benefitted exponentially from gold food because:

1. They get +1000 health
2. They get +300 health regen

Coupled with gold food, they were getting 4700 health and 600 heatlh regen. The problem was always orc and not he food itself.

Altmer/Dunmer were not outdamaging Breton, especially in longer fights. A lot of endgame players were actually using Breton already. Sustaining on magicka is harder than stamina.

This nerf pushes Altmer/Dunmer completely out of the meta for magicka DPS leaving Breton as the only option.

Ez solution > nerf orc.
Bad solution > punish everyone who uses those foods

That would have been the obvious solution, but when has ZOS ever been about obvious solutions?

Lord-Otto

Oh, look. Having the utility of sustain (Breton) and still be top DPS can cause balancing problems. I told you so.
It's only Orc health that's overperforming, and people told you so on race change PTS. ZOS are now punishing players for a mistake they (ZOS) made.
Whatever. I'm unaffected. If you wanna know, TRISTAT food is heavily overloaded.