Recovery Food Changes

WrathOfInnos

IonicKai wrote: »

I take it based on lack of mention in the last couple patch notes that this reduced state of food buff is here to stay which pretty harshly devalues these foods?

@IonicKai I’ve been meaning to update this post. The regen foods are still much weaker than other options on PTS, but things have still be changing slightly every week. Like this week it appears they added scaling based on color quality of foods. Purple were unaffected, gold became slightly stronger (like Bloody Mara) and blue became slightly weaker (Lava Foot and Frothgar). Nothing is static, they keep tweaking values, but not really in the direction that makes sense for things like Artaeum Takeaway Broth and Clockwork Citrus Filet.

Colecovision

I sold my stacks of dubious and witch Mother’s live, sswapped glyphs and switched to blue food entirely. None of my characters need health glyphs on armor now and life is easier.

Good riddance.

MartiniDaniels

Colecovision wrote: »

I sold my stacks of dubious and witch Mother’s live, sswapped glyphs and switched to blue food entirely. None of my characters need health glyphs on armor now and life is easier.

Good riddance.

If magicka, switch to Bloody Mara, it is most powerful food on PTS.

mongoLC

Wow sustain is already *** in this game. Need a new game the devs just want it to be the elder scrolls of light and heavy attacks online and I am sick of it. It's just not fun.

IonicKai

I'm fine with light attack weaving and would be fine having to use heavy attacks (if they were not crippling to dps comparatively) but what I am not ok with is the notion that sustain races end up with better DPS. Sustain races are not meant to be the best DPS but rather a better starting point for newer players and a better choice for support roles. These food changes push the game further in the opposite direction where sustain races become BiS for PVE.

WrathOfInnos

It does seem like these changes will bring Redguard in line with Orc, but that should have been handled by adjusting racial passives. The result here is that Dunmer and Altmer with no sustain passives will be destroyed by Breton.

MartiniDaniels

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It does seem like these changes will bring Redguard in line with Orc, but that should have been handled by adjusting racial passives. The result here is that Dunmer and Altmer with no sustain passives will be destroyed by Breton.

Yes, from what I see if you min-max there will be absolutely no point to use anything then breton with mara and orc with lava foot soup. Other races will be 2-3 set pieces behind.

WrathOfInnos

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It does seem like these changes will bring Redguard in line with Orc, but that should have been handled by adjusting racial passives. The result here is that Dunmer and Altmer with no sustain passives will be destroyed by Breton.

Yes, from what I see if you min-max there will be absolutely no point to use anything then breton with mara and orc with lava foot soup. Other races will be 2-3 set pieces behind.

Interesting point, I was thinking Takeaway Broth and Dubious Camoran nerfs hurt Orc, but you’re right, they can just go with Lava Foot and have more sustain than Redguard.

Deathlord92

I would like to see dubious stay the same as it is live or buff same with witch mother they are popular for a reason they shouldn’t be messed with 😎

HowlKimchi

Purple and Gold Food covers more bases that's why the values are slighly lower, as compared to blue food which are more specialized, and thus more potent.

Jagdkommando

Imho Legendary food/drink MUST be much more effective than Epic purple food dute to its high price, also this will reward the time loss of ingredients harvesters with gold!

HankTwo

It seems ridiculous to me that dubious camoran throne and witchmother's potent brew will get nerfed, even though they already provide less resources than plain old bistat blue food. I really hope ZOS reverts this change.

Also, what is going on with all the other food changes, like lava foot soup and double bloody mara? As far as I know, there was not much information about this in the PTS patch notes. For example, ghastly eyeballs is still weaker than lava foot, right? Can ZOS please clear things up? I would love to have a consistent food buff system based on set bonuses, but it would be nice to know what their plan is.

Edit: If double bloody mara gets buffed enough, then I could just switch to it from witchmother's (I need a drink buff on my magplar build, since I use bright throat). However, there is no stamina equivalent to this, so using bone pirate on my stam DK will feel underwhelming in comparison.

spacebandit

Are you guys griping because the current iteration of regen food doesn’t give you enough health? Or because now sustain classes will be almost as good or better in some cases in a sustain fight?

The whole argument to me seems based on treating food/drink like a set bonus instead of its own entity

I see no reason not to use it as an equalizer between sustain and burst races. But I think Bretons sustain need toned down and orcs health cut in half.

IonicKai

@spacebandit my gripe is two fold. First is that there is already a fair trade off with these foods and the Nerf was unnecessary. The second is that going through with these changes pushes sustain races from a point of near balance where they are better or equal DPS in PVE to just a flat better choice which is absolute BS. They should have just adjusted orc health as that is the one thing that is really out of whack and most people called it the moment ZOS dropped the last change on the orcs for WrathStone.

Morgul667

Interesting

spacebandit

IonicKai wrote: »

@spacebandit my gripe is two fold. First is that there is already a fair trade off with these foods and the Nerf was unnecessary. The second is that going through with these changes pushes sustain races from a point of near balance where they are better or equal DPS in PVE to just a flat better choice which is absolute BS. They should have just adjusted orc health as that is the one thing that is really out of whack and most people called it the moment ZOS dropped the last change on the orcs for WrathStone.

IonicKai wrote: »

@spacebandit my gripe is two fold. First is that there is already a fair trade off with these foods and the Nerf was unnecessary. The second is that going through with these changes pushes sustain races from a point of near balance where they are better or equal DPS in PVE to just a flat better choice which is absolute BS. They should have just adjusted orc health as that is the one thing that is really out of whack and most people called it the moment ZOS dropped the last change on the orcs for WrathStone.

even if orc health was cut by 1000 they would still be the best race for stamina with the current way food is.

Editing this: with 1000 health nerf orc would then be around equal to Bosmer Cause for the sake of argument let’s say 258 weapon/spell power = 258 regen just like on sets. Hard to quantify red guard but they are just ever so slightly better than Bosmer.



If they buffed the health of the sustain food but left the max stamina nerfed would that be enough to make people happy?

IonicKai

No because the only overperforming race is orc. Honestly they could use a small hit to max stam as well but the health is the part that takes them completely over the top. Nerfing the max stat across the board hurts most class/race combinations. The only exceptions would be sustain races. It's bad enough that we have to run sustain food and an absorb glyph to have a chance at sustain when the sustain races can go pure offense but that more or less worked itself out with how the final damage numbers came out so all sustain races had was slightly higher consistentsy and better health. If these changes go through that balance is gone. Orcs will probably still be strong because they can drop the health bonus in favor of lavafoot but mag loses the option as Breton will be objectively better in almost all cases except true burst which only matters in PvP (PVE gets screwed).

spacebandit

Sustain races have to run an absorb glyph too (excluding Breton because I don’t know) and their sustain is worse than burst races when burst races are running recovery food.

People complain about orc a lot (I don’t run orc because ugly) but I think the problem here is Breton. The changes bring stamina races closer while at the same time lengthen the gap between Breton and Altmer/Dunmers

WrathOfInnos

spacebandit wrote: »

People complain about orc a lot (I don’t run orc because ugly) but I think the problem here is Breton. The changes bring stamina races closer while at the same time lengthen the gap between Breton and Altmer/Dunmers

You could say that, but I think Breton is actually balanced well with Orc and Redguard, it’s just that Altmer were butchered during the race rebalance when their Magicka Sustain was replaced with off-stat sustain (basically leaving them with 2 useful racial passives vs the 3 on Redguard, Orc and Breton). But I don’t want to get too far derailed on a race balance discussion here. The point is that food changes should not be used to fix race balance.

Pevey

Balancing races using food is just a terrible idea. I mean, we are talking about balancing BLUE food to purple/gold food. More expensive, harder to get (recipes available once per year) food should be unambiguously better than blue food for almost any race/circumstance. Else, the color quality signifier is meaningless. On PTS, purple/gold is not better, just different. And costs WAY more for no good reason anymore.

spacebandit

Why is balancing races with food a bad idea? Because to me it looks like that’s exactly what they are doing. Why else would they change food right after a racial balance.

Perhaps they need to nerf blue bi stat food and add in more purple/gold bi stat food options just to keep the price/performance the same.

A quick trade center search though shows I can buy 10 hours worth of purple regen food for under 2k gold.

Gold food is ridiculous though. I wouldn’t mind if it was buffed a little

IonicKai

@Pevey I completely agree. It was at a point of balance ish in terms of use as is but I would not be opposed to actually buffing the max stat portions for all purple and gold food to make it outright better regardless. If they did that they would probably want to take away some of the sustain and I am fine with that. It could drop to like 260 recovery for purple and stay where it's at for gold (gold should be sufficiently better than purple otherwise why)

WrathOfInnos

HaruKamui wrote: »

Purple and Gold Food covers more bases that's why the values are slighly lower, as compared to blue food which are more specialized, and thus more potent.

@HaruKamui That has always been the case, and foods with 3 stats have had the magnitude of each about 2/3 of the magnitude of a stat in bi-stat food (so the total benefit is about the same with either option). Now tri-stat gives about half of the magnitude of bi-stat, which makes it useless.