PTS Update 22 - Feedback Thread for Sunspire Trial

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for Sunspire Trial. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did you enjoy this new Trial?
• What level and build was the character you used?
• How did the difficulty compare to existing Trials on Normal and Veteran versions?
• Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
• Did you try any Hard Modes? If so, which bosses?
• Were there any mechanics you had difficulty with?
• Did you complete the trial?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Aliyavana

Ill try it later

Deloth_Vyrr

1) Enjoyed it greatly so far. Fights are fun and engaging and make you think.
2) Max CP Magicka Sorc
3) Normal mode felt on par with other Normals. Vet felt challenging but no unfair. Didn't try Hard Mode.
4) Completed Normal, group is currently progressing through Veteran
5) No Hard Modes yet
6) Completed Normal, working on Veteran
7) Really happy to get a full sized trial again after back to back mini-trials. Also even though we haven't attempted it yet, the idea of Hard Modes for each fight was a great idea for providing a large amount of vertical progression throughout the trial.

LiquidPony

1. Yes, it's awesome.
2. CP810 Stamina Necromancer
3. Feels somewhere around vMoL difficulty
4. Veteran
5. No hard modes so far
6. Nope, they were all pretty straightforward and intuitive.
7. My group did.
8. The "instance full" bug seems particularly rough in this trial. We had to replace group members and were unable to get 12 people in the trial after that. I'm not sure if this is specifically related to PTS or if it's something specifically related to this trial but I thought it was worth noting since it kind of sucks.

majulook

Did you enjoy this new Trial?

It was ok not as good as others but not as terrible as Frostvault

What level and build was the character you used?

Template Character - Magicka Necromancer

How did the difficulty compare to existing Trials on Normal and Veteran versions?

Normal, could not find a Vet group that would take anyone who had not run it n Vet before. This was the second day after release, and it was like this. I think that its only gonna be worse on live.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?

Completed with a group of nine (8) players, 2 Healers 6 DD, and No Tank.
Started with 10 (still with no Tank)

Did you try any Hard Modes? If so, which bosses?

Not sure we ran through it pretty fast I think no hard mode.

Were there any mechanics you had difficulty with?

No

Did you complete the trial?

Yes

Do you have any other general feedback?

No portal back to group form wayshrine in trial. Had go offline that came back dead, they could only rez at wayshrine.
Then could not get back to group do to doors not working when group in combat and no portal. We stopped combat and they could still not get through door.

LiquidPony

Additional piece of feedback here: please give us portals. It's a real PITA to catch back up to the group and given that this is ESO, there are plenty of DCs and crashes to contend with.

titaniumdust

Just want to note that the dragon hitboxes seems a bit weird for the necromancer mystic siphon and detonating siphon abilities. I would have a blastbones do damage to the dragon, and collapse near its wings, but the mystic siphon AOE around the corpses did not hit the dragons, even though it looked like at least part of their bodies were in the circle.

code65536

LiquidPony wrote: »

Additional piece of feedback here: please give us portals. It's a real PITA to catch back up to the group and given that this is ESO, there are plenty of DCs and crashes to contend with.

I think the reason portals were not added is (1) because progression through the trial is not linear--you can do a clockwise loop, or a counter-clockwise loop. And (2) because they added a new-fangled "Joining Encounter In Progress" mechanism that pulls you into the boss fight, even if you're out in the lobby.

The problem with #2 is that it doesn't appear to work for trash engagements, and saying, "we'll just pull the boss and you'll be ported to us" doesn't work that well when the person that needs to be ported in is the tank...

CyberOnEso

Did you enjoy this new Trial?
Yes, we have been enjoying it a lot.

What level and build was the character you used?
810 Template magPlar.

Group setup:
1 DK, main tank. 1 Necro, Off Tank, 1 Templar Tank Healer, 1 Warden Group Healer
8* Magicka DD's: 1-2 Templars, 3-4 Sorc's, 2 Nightblades, 1 Necro

How did the difficulty compare to existing Trials on Normal and Veteran versions?
vet feels on par with vAS+0?

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
Both

Did you try any Hard Modes? If so, which bosses?
Completed Yolnariin Hardmode in around 30 mins of progression from never having turned it on before.
Tried Lorkhesttis Hardmode and wiped due to the bugged Storm Beam.

Were there any mechanics you had difficulty with?
The bugged beam on the storm dragon on hardmode.

Did you complete the trial?
Yes, around 5 times so far on vet. Shortest time was around 40 mins.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Hardmode progression and general progression for vet trials should be measured in days and weeks, not minutes.
In my opinion the general difficulty for the 3 non- hm bosses is too low. The last boss should be comparable in difficulty to Rakkhat, with mechanics that can kill group members. The hardest part about the boss fight is actually the adds, not Nahvintaas. On vet, as a dd, the fight is a stack and burn just where you just need to move out from the fire circles and the small 'time stops'. With the Eternal Servant fight being too forgiving. The shadow realm in cloudrest has a lot more incoming damage and requires some coordination, which the current downstairs mechanic doesn't require.

For yolnakriin hardmode the fight is really forgiving using the tactic of splitting into 2 groups means that the game is so forgiving that it seems to always give you a left group flare then a right group flare. The flame atros that spawn, spawn in very forgiving positions, to the left of the left group and to the right of the right group meaning they can be killed far too easily and without any coordination.

Flares

Did you enjoy this new Trial?

Just a bit, better designed than other trials thus far

What level and build was the character you used?

Stamblade 810

How did the difficulty compare to existing Trials on Normal and Veteran versions?

Both were way to easy.
Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?

both

Did you try any Hard Modes? If so, which bosses?

Yolnariin was completed in 40min? I feel bosses should take alot longer to learn and kill like in other MMOs. There is no feeling of accomplishment.

Were there any mechanics you had difficulty with?

No

Did you complete the trial?

yes
Do you have any other general feedback?

If you are hoping to lure in WoW or even FF14 players with the new expansion in regards to raiding you really need to step up on raiding difficulty. Raid progressions for the best groups should take 10-50x as long as it currently does. Hell, even FF14 Gordias and Midas took the best group 2-3 weeks of 12hour days to master and clear. World 1st in WoW takes 2 weeks ~ give or take. In ESO your hardest raids gets cleared within a day, a few hours maybe. Then most players are left twiddling their thumbs for a year for a new raid.

LiquidPony

code65536 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Additional piece of feedback here: please give us portals. It's a real PITA to catch back up to the group and given that this is ESO, there are plenty of DCs and crashes to contend with.

I think the reason portals were not added is (1) because progression through the trial is not linear--you can do a clockwise loop, or a counter-clockwise loop. And (2) because they added a new-fangled "Joining Encounter In Progress" mechanism that pulls you into the boss fight, even if you're out in the lobby.

The problem with #2 is that it doesn't appear to work for trash engagements, and saying, "we'll just pull the boss and you'll be ported to us" doesn't work that well when the person that needs to be ported in is the tank...

Don't see why the the fact that it isn't linear would prevent portals from working.

Kill the Ice dragon, a portal spawns on his platform. Kill the Fire dragon, a portal spawns on his platform. That way you don't have to run through the whole trial if the group is in the back half of the loop.

Bherdani

Did you enjoy this new Trial?
It's awesome! Great work

What level and build was the character you used?
Max level Templar healer and magsorc DPS

How did the difficulty compare to existing Trials on Normal and Veteran versions?
Less difficult than Cloudrest, should probably be more difficult honestly.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
Vet. Haven't been in normal.

Did you try any Hard Modes? If so, which bosses?
Yes, all three

Were there any mechanics you had difficulty with?
Many people are frustrated with flame atronachs' lava geyser. The tell is small and much less bright than other tells, so very difficult to see, especially on Navi's floor. Also it would be lovely if Barrier spamming were not a viable strat to bypass mechanics.

Did you complete the trial?
Yes

Do you have any other general feedback?
The trash is vSO-level grueling and the trial is beautiful! Dragon hype!

CyberOnEso

Bug's from 5.0.1

Focused Fire will now increase in damage more quickly when Hard Mode is active. - 5.0.1 Patch Notes

This seems to also affect non- hard mode. Which I do not think is intended.

On Nahvintaas HM the portals to the Eternal Servant now seem to be buggy, allowing more people than intended to use the portals.

ZOS_Finn

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Bug's from 5.0.1

Focused Fire will now increase in damage more quickly when Hard Mode is active. - 5.0.1 Patch Notes

This seems to also affect non- hard mode. Which I do not think is intended.

On Nahvintaas HM the portals to the Eternal Servant now seem to be buggy, allowing more people than intended to use the portals.

For focus fire, you say the damage ramp is faster in non-HM than last week?

We will look at the portals.

CyberOnEso

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Bug's from 5.0.1

Focused Fire will now increase in damage more quickly when Hard Mode is active. - 5.0.1 Patch Notes

This seems to also affect non- hard mode. Which I do not think is intended.

On Nahvintaas HM the portals to the Eternal Servant now seem to be buggy, allowing more people than intended to use the portals.

For focus fire, you say the damage ramp is faster in non-HM than last week?

We will look at the portals.

Hey'a Finn, for focus fire if we were stacked as one group we would be reaching around 17 stacks of focus fire, meaning we now have to split into 2 groups on non- hm or the incoming damage would just be too high.
Last week we could just be in one group and people would never go higher than 6-8 stacks of focus fire.

tourerttrwb17_ESO

Did you enjoy this new Trial?
Absolutely the best trial ever made by ZOS
What level and build was the character you used?
Max lvl DK Tank
How did the difficulty compare to existing Trials on Normal and Veteran versions?
Normal on par with other normals, vet is much easier then vMOL
Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
Both
Did you try any Hard Modes? If so, which bosses?
No HMs
Were there any mechanics you had difficulty with?
Not really, there are bugs, yesm but mechanics seemed to be straight forward
Did you complete the trial?
Yes
Do you have any other general feedback?
Very happy to have a full trial again instead of mini trials. Aside from bugs (cats get stuck in the air in the middle of a jump, boss fight starts even though all group members are very far away from the boss, etc) the trial is really good. The only concern i have is that vet version of trial is too easy compared to vMOL or vHOF. No group wipe mechanics, not much coordination needed, etc.

T3hasiangod

Did you enjoy this new Trial?

Yes, the entire guild is very excited to progress the trial (again!) once it hit live.

What level and build was the character you used?

Max CP DK tank and Max CP Necro tank

How did the difficulty compare to existing Trials on Normal and Veteran versions?

Normal is pretty easy. You do need to know mechanics, but it can be pugged. No HM veteran feels around vMaw difficulty. Yolnahkriin HM feels about as tough as a vCR + 1 or vAS + 1 fight at first, but once you get the mechanics down and get a strategy going, it's fairly straightforward. Have not yet cleared HM Lokkestiiz or Nahviintaas yet.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?

Completed normal and no HM vet. Have cleared HM Yolnahkriin, tried HM Lokkestiiz, have not tried HM Nahviintaas

Did you try any Hard Modes? If so, which bosses?

So far, cleared HM Yolnahkriin, in the process of progressing HM Lokkestiiz, have not yet done HM Nahviintaas

Were there any mechanics you had difficulty with?

Right now, we're coming up with strategies to deal with the "Hyper Beam" from Lokkestiiz and the Arcing Bolts. We've been trying to avoid asking groups that have cleared what their strategies are. We have a few ideas on how to deal with it that we're trying on Thursday.

Did you complete the trial?

Yes, on no HM vet. Still going for the full HM run though.

Do you have any other general feedback?

1. The time stops on HM Yolnahkriin (and to a lesser extent HM Lokkestiiz) seem to be pretty safe? They don't deal damage and only act as a hard CC that you need to Break Free from. We eventually just stopped moving out of them entirely since it was essentially harmless. Maybe add some damage to it or some consequence for being in it when it completes?

2. The offtank was having issues with the hitbox of the dragons while taunting the adds in each fight. It looks like a similar issue with Olms in vAS HM, where the hitboxes are so large that they sometimes "overlap" or "overtake" smaller hitboxes.

3. We were having some issue with the animation for Lokkestiiz breath move. Sometimes he didn't do the charge up animations. Other times he did the animation but the move only lasted for a second, rather than the full 3-ish seconds of damage.

code65536

@T3hasiangod When we asked ZOS about the "hyper beam" you speak of on ice HM (Storm Fury) we were told that it is currently bugged and doing more damage than intended.

T3hasiangod

code65536 wrote: »

@T3hasiangod When we asked ZOS about the "hyper beam" you speak of on ice HM (Storm Fury) we were told that it is currently bugged and doing more damage than intended.

Is this the case with the fix that came out today? Since it said that it can be blocked and dodged, but nothing about damage, I'm guessing that the damage component hasn't been fixed yet?

code65536

T3hasiangod wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

@T3hasiangod When we asked ZOS about the "hyper beam" you speak of on ice HM (Storm Fury) we were told that it is currently bugged and doing more damage than intended.

Is this the case with the fix that came out today? Since it said that it can be blocked and dodged, but nothing about damage, I'm guessing that the damage component hasn't been fixed yet?

Frost Breath: cone on the MT
Storm Breath: the line of lightning that he lays across the ground while in flight
Storm Fury: the beam sweep

It was Storm Breath, not Storm Fury, that was in Monday's patch notes.

T3hasiangod

code65536 wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

@T3hasiangod When we asked ZOS about the "hyper beam" you speak of on ice HM (Storm Fury) we were told that it is currently bugged and doing more damage than intended.

Is this the case with the fix that came out today? Since it said that it can be blocked and dodged, but nothing about damage, I'm guessing that the damage component hasn't been fixed yet?

Frost Breath: cone on the MT
Storm Breath: the line of lightning that he lays across the ground while in flight
Storm Fury: the beam sweep

It was Storm Breath, not Storm Fury, that was in Monday's patch notes.

Ah ok. Got the abilities mixed up then.

profundidob16_ESO

@ZOS_Finn

*SPOILER ALERT*

on Yolnahkriin vet non-hm we find it possible (even though hard) to have the offtank solo tank and hold up to 2 irons and all their flame atro's away from the main group and boss with our dps never ever touching the iron atro's nor flame atro's until he goes into air phase and kills off all flame atro's with his big boom. Instead all dps stay on boss from start till end and push him into air phase before a third add wave spawns.

I personally have the feeling that this was never the devs intention as it makes things too easy for the rest of the group and skips the whole add mechanic essentially as long as you have an offtank that's capable of pulling this special dance off. I personally would expect you want us to kill off all adds including the iron atro's before continuing dps on boss. However, others in our group believe that this is a valid tactic since there is no 1 shot mechanic preventing such a tactic or an npc shouting that they need to be killed.

Perhaps you can shed some light on this ?

code65536

@profundidob16_ESO That's the general strategy for non-HM. Though typically with two tanks instead of one. (edit: misread the post above) You're not supposed to kill the iron atronachs before the over broil, and waiting to kill the fire atronachs until the broil means you run the risk of them dying after the broil, thus leaving their lava pool behind uncleansed.

On HM, however, the fire atronachs enrage after a period and so they must be killed. But the iron atronachs are still meant to be ignored until the broil.

profundidob16_ESO

code65536 wrote: »

@profundidob16_ESO That's the general strategy for non-HM. Though typically with two tanks instead of one. You're not supposed to kill the iron atronachs before the over broil, and waiting to kill the fire atronachs until the broil means you run the risk of them dying after the broil, thus leaving their lava pool behind uncleansed.

On HM, however, the fire atronachs enrage after a period and so they must be killed. But the iron atronachs are still meant to be ignored until the broil.

Thanks for the answer. So you run with 3 tanks then ? 1 on boss and 2 on adds ?

Also, on non-hm do I understand correctly that you leave them alive at first but then start killing them shortly before over broil ?

code65536

@profundidob16_ESO Oh, sorry, I had misread your post. I missed the "off" part and thought you meant you had one tank holding the dragon and everything else (which would be pretty incredible lol).

Yes, two tanks. One dragon tank. One offtank that plays with everything else away from the group. On HM, the flame atros must be killed quickly or they'll wipe the group. On non-HM, it's my preference to kill them (for consistency with HM strats and it's just safer), but there's no pressing need.

If you leave the flame atros alive on non-HM, you want to focus them down while the boss is in flight, before the broil, so that they drop their lava pools in time for them to be cleansed by the broil. In both cases, the iron atronachs have enough health that it's just too inefficient to kill them pre-broil. And given the debuff that they receive after being cooked, it seems clear that the intent is for them to be killed after being cooked.

profundidob16_ESO

Awesome, thanks

TeIvanni

The trial is very beautiful.
And it is a fun trial, but I'm not sure if that is just because it's new?
Time will tell on that one.
Currently enjoy it more than vMoL/Craglorns but less than vHoF/vAS/vCR.

I have cleared veteran on Magplar/Stamblade DPS as well as DK Tank.

Trial felt fairly difficult.
But I'm not sure this is truly difficulty, or just the raw amount of HP the trial has.
It feels like this trial has more HP than any trial previous.

I have not been into the trial on normal yet, only on veteran.
Veteran difficulty seemed appropriate (harder than Cloudrest+0/vAS+0).
Maybe not quite as hard as vHoF, with the hardmodes off.
A little more challenging than vMoL?

Have tried all the Hardmode bosses.
Nahviintaas seems a bit boring right now, I wish it had added mechanics each time he flew up in the air.
Could even stagger current mechanics to make the fight feel more interesting.
But for the first 60% of the fight, you're just doing the exact same mechanics 3 times.
Would be nice if it added something unique each 20%. Sort of like Rahkhatt does Bombs on pad 3, tethers on pad 5, beach balls on pad 7.
Yolnahkriin is my favorite fight currently. The flare this week seems to be hitting pretty hard, but i suppose that's okay since it is "Hardmode". One big thing I'd have to say is that the AoE from the Flame Atronach "Lava Geyser" is very difficult to see. If that animation underneath your feet could be made more obvious, that would be helpful. Because right now the telegraph feels very faint.
Lokkestiiz, the beam that applies an aoe dot on you is still too strong. It is completable if you have all the dps running like mistform, shields, barriers, temporal guard frontbar for the 8% mitigation, and are running veils/northern storm for major protection. But i think you guys are already working on tweaking the damage just a little lower, so we don't need to all spec tank to clear.

Difficulty with the trial... uh downstairs is pretty brutal on final boss Hardmode. The combination of Pin + Call lightning + Bash is basically a death sentence. And the raw amount of HP downstairs, again seems a bit high considering all the hoops you have to dance with downstairs (self healing, avoiding call lightning constantly, dodging conal knockbacks, bashing boss).
Again lokkestiiz seems way too overpowered atm, but that you're aware of.

In regards to the trash, I really think the adds should be fixed entities roaming around their zone to guard.
Either that or add a Time Breach type of animation when more adds spawn in. From a lore perspective, how are these cats just magically appearing to drop down from the sky in a ball of fire?

CyberOnEso

Just throwing this out there but pretty much all the add packs seem to be 'intended' to be cleared in the order Lorkhestiz then Yolnorkrinn.
I.e. In the first room with adds on the 'left' side of the trial (The frozen room with Lorkhestiz's silver statue in) if you clear the trial in the order Lorkhestiz then Yolnorkrinn, the add packs pull in a reasonable fashion allowing you to kill 2-3 adds before the next group engages. However, if you clear the trial Yolnorkrinn then Lorkhestiz then most of the packs in this room pull immediately upon anyone entering the room. Making the encounter much more difficult. This is the case for the majority of the packs in the trial.
I am sure you are aware of this, but just putting it on the record. Please take another look at the spawn locations of the adds in these encounters.

ecru

Necromancer's Mystic Siphon isn't hitting any of the bosses.

CyberOnEso

[Moved to bug report thread]

TeIvanni

Also, I think this was changed week 2...
But there are Jone's Gale Claws (Ice cats) on the fire side of the temple? (in the room with the pit of death)
Which seems pretty much against the rest of the theme of the trial.
They should be changed back to Sench-Rahts or Jode Fire Fangs?