With all the stamina morphs for necromancer, I hope ZOS goes back and looks at the old classes too

Footfalls

Players have been asking for DK stamina whip for the longest time now, and stamina sorcerer has barely any stamina morphs to speak of (only three skills!)

In comparison, Warden and Necromancer both look great to play as magicka and stamina with many unique stamina morphs. I hope that after Elsweyr, ZOS goes back and takes a look at the original classes, so they can update them to more modern standards.

Yirmeyahu

I must admit, my 1st thought when I saw Necromancer was...
"Boy, does stam sorcerer need to be adjusted."

Parrot1986

Agreed it’s good to see the diversity added to the expansion classes but I’d love to see this done with the base classes. Stam sorc especially is really limited. Add that to the fact that most of the classes don’t have real viable choices between 2 Magika morphs it should be easy to do without breaking the Magika class

Vandril

I'd like to see an additional Magicka weapon line added, too, to balance things out a bit.

There's no reason classes should be almost entirely Magicka based, but if they get more Stam morphs than Magicka will start to lose out.

What I'd REALLY like to see is an expansion of the Class Skill Line and Morph systems. Have each class line have 3 Magicka and 3 Stamina abilities, and each of those 6 abilities have 3 morphs that are all the same resource type as the base ability.

Canned_Apples

The lack of class specific stamina morphs is the one thing that I don't like about stamina builds- they all end up looking the same.
It would be nice if they went back and reviewed all the classes, but it's unlikely to happen.

I don't understand why people keep singling out the Warden... they have three stamina morphs, but only one of them is actually used. If anything, people should be comparing the necromancer to the NB, as all but one of their SIX stamina morphs are used.
While the Necromancer does have five stamina morphs, the core builds will probably end up being similar to the Warden, Dragon Knight, and Templar, and Sorcerer.... with Blighted Blastbones and Rouinous Scythe being the only two stamina morphs that are used- at least in pvp.

Vapirko

Well we know the stam whip isn’t coming. They just reworked one of the whip morphs for the upcoming patch. If they were gonna add a stam whip they would have.

SFDB

Stamina Staves and Magicka Swords skill lines. Make it so!

Morgul667

Stamsorc please

Lord_Sando

Stam sorc could really use the love not just for the skill but do to the sorc passives are only available with certain skills slotted.

WrathOfInnos

Having that many stamina morphs is actually bad for build choices. If one morph is for Magicka and the other for Stamina then there isn’t really any choice at all, you have to pick the one for your primary resource.

I prefer morphs that are a tough decision, like Liquid Lightning vs Flood, or Breath of Life vs Honor the Dead. Morphs like Impale vs Killers Blade are just boring.

Alucardo

They won't. The older classes have been in the game forever now, so changing even one morph is going to turn a lot of people hostile. There's not really anything they can do with them except minor balance changes.

WoppaBoem

I hope to and also to older sets. If they nerf Fury and 7th into the ground and all other damage heavy armor sets I am oke to give stamina many nice morfs until then, nahhh its good all is fine.

Monte_Cristo

Stam morph for DK's spike armour? Maybe the damage shield one? Plus I'd like ult damage to be based on either stam or mana, whichever's higher. Let's you choose them based on the effects.

Alucardo

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

Plus I'd like ult damage to be based on either stam or mana, whichever's higher. Let's you choose them based on the effects.

They kinda do already. Ultimates scale from your max stats, which is why they still hit so hard even if you pick the one you're not specced for, as long as your resource pool is high enough. Obviously they also scale on CP and gear, which is what makes them stronger depending on your spec.

Uviryth

After 5 years of "EndlessHail-RazorCaltrops-PoisonInjection-RearmingTrap" I sooo hope they do something about combat with more possibilities.

SoLooney

I feel like all classes besides the sorc have really good morphs for stam, some more than others.

Almost all the skills for sorcerer are catered to magicka. You have hurricane, bound armaments, I know I'm missing another skill. Crit surge is really good for stam sorc too. But skills def need rework, more stam morph options.

Chilly-McFreeze

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Having that many stamina morphs is actually bad for build choices. If one morph is for Magicka and the other for Stamina then there isn’t really any choice at all, you have to pick the one for your primary resource.

I prefer morphs that are a tough decision, like Liquid Lightning vs Flood, or Breath of Life vs Honor the Dead. Morphs like Impale vs Killers Blade are just boring.

Spoken like a true magician.

devilsTear

Vapirko wrote: »

Well we know the stam whip isn’t coming. They just reworked one of the whip morphs for the upcoming patch. If they were gonna add a stam whip they would have.

What are they planning with whip?

Alucardo

Lord_Sando wrote: »

Stam sorc could really use the love not just for the skill but do to the sorc passives are only available with certain skills slotted.

I like how they dangle this piece of candy like bound armaments but give you no where to slot it.

Apherius

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Having that many stamina morphs is actually bad for build choices. If one morph is for Magicka and the other for Stamina then there isn’t really any choice at all, you have to pick the one for your primary resource.

I prefer morphs that are a tough decision, like Liquid Lightning vs Flood, or Breath of Life vs Honor the Dead. Morphs like Impale vs Killers Blade are just boring.

Liquid lightning is better, it’s not a tough decision.

Monte_Cristo

Alucardo wrote: »

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

Plus I'd like ult damage to be based on either stam or mana, whichever's higher. Let's you choose them based on the effects.

They kinda do already. Ultimates scale from your max stats, which is why they still hit so hard even if you pick the one you're not specced for, as long as your resource pool is high enough. Obviously they also scale on CP and gear, which is what makes them stronger depending on your spec.

Oh, didn't know that. I thought it was stamina for physical/poison/disease and magicka for the others. Thanks.

Kulvar

Necromancer can raise undead using stamina, so any ability can have a stamina morph.

@Monte_Cristo
They scale with your highest, but their damage are still magical or physical, so you lose CP.

DoonerSeraph

That's a concern of mine. Necro has a pretty complete package, I wonder if older classes will be updated to this vision since they can't be directly monetized...

Crixus8000

I really hope stamsorc gets something, even if it's just some passives becoming useful. But I expect we will just get another nerf...

Faulgor

SoLooney wrote: »

I feel like all classes besides the sorc have really good morphs for stam, some more than others.

Almost all the skills for sorcerer are catered to magicka. You have hurricane, bound armaments, I know I'm missing another skill. Crit surge is really good for stam sorc too. But skills def need rework, more stam morph options.

Yeah it's mainly Sorcerer that's lagging behind. Nightblades are of course fine, Templars have a good array of stamina morphs where it makes sense, and I think even DKs don't need that much - or lack of stamina morphs is certainly not their main issue. Besides a stamina whip, I think the only real contenders for a stam morph is Dragonknight Standard, which could have a poison damage morph.

As for Stamsorcs, they currently lack any defining theme whatsoever, so it's difficult to make concrete suggestions how to improve them. It's in their lore that they're skilled with artifacts and enchantments, so it's not unreasonable that they make more use of weapon skills than other stamina classes, but they need something to make that shine.

Vizikul

Footfalls wrote: »

Players have been asking for DK stamina whip for the longest time now, and stamina sorcerer has barely any stamina morphs to speak of (only three skills!)

In comparison, Warden and Necromancer both look great to play as magicka and stamina with many unique stamina morphs. I hope that after Elsweyr, ZOS goes back and takes a look at the original classes, so they can update them to more modern standards.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Do you even play a Warden? Warden does not have many stamina morphs either. We have Sub Assault, Cutting Dive and Bull Netch for the dps skill line and Soothing Spores for the healing one. Green Lotus provides a buff for stamina users but is not a stamina ability itself.

Moonsorrow

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I really hope stamsorc gets something, even if it's just some passives becoming useful. But I expect we will just get another nerf...

This.

I have hope always, but end up disappointed.

Some passive update to make stamsorc life more worthy is needed after badly.

Things like (even not like using a pet as a stamsorc) make Clannfear damage scale with Weapon damage/Stam instead of magicka since it does Physical damage anyways, so if we choose we can benefit from the passive that gives us hp/stam regen bonus by slotting it.

BaylorCorvette

Vizikul wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

Players have been asking for DK stamina whip for the longest time now, and stamina sorcerer has barely any stamina morphs to speak of (only three skills!)

In comparison, Warden and Necromancer both look great to play as magicka and stamina with many unique stamina morphs. I hope that after Elsweyr, ZOS goes back and takes a look at the original classes, so they can update them to more modern standards.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Do you even play a Warden? Warden does not have many stamina morphs either. We have Sub Assault, Cutting Dive and Bull Netch for the dps skill line and Soothing Spores for the healing one. Green Lotus provides a buff for stamina users but is not a stamina ability itself.

Maybe StamDen doesn't have a large quantity of stam morphs but they have a very strong quality of stam morphs. StamDen is one of the strongest classes in the game (for PvP). Aside from Vigor, the're the only class with a stamina group heal ability. It's one of the main reasons why StamDen is a meta class to have a couple of in a 4-10 man group. Does not matter if your group gets negated, two+ StamDens putting out soothing spores + vigor and you're fine. On top of that, all four class passives in Green Balance (the healing line) apply to a StamDen.

Cutting Dive is a very strong ranged ability for a stamina class and lets not forget that it cannot be reflected by DK wings. How many other classes have a class based Stamina damage/morph ability with 28 meters? StamSorc? Nope. StamDK? Nope. StamBlade? Not unless you count Relentless Focus proc. Stamplar? Binding Javelin is the closest thing. Necros have a better air frag than StamSorc and it's called Venom Skull..

redspecter23

Honestly, this was very disappointing to hear. It's great that necromancer is getting a ton of solid stamina morphs. That part is great. The disappointing part was that nothing was said about going back and helping out the other 5 classes. If this is the way classes will be designed going forward, they need to go back and add some more stam morphs to other classes. There is now no reason that DK can't have a stamina whip.

Wildberryjack

I've touched on this before and asked if there could please be more stamina morphs. As it is right now we are so limited in racial choices if we want to use CLASS skills and not be stuck with majority weapon skills.

I had really wanted to make an Orc Sorcerer but I already have a bow/duel wield char and a 2H/sword-n-board char and didn't want another. So I made an Altmer Sorc and went magicka. I liked the idea of an unconventional race for the class but with everything about Orc being stamina the character would have been rather badly gimped in DPS.

And while we're on this subject, can we PLEASE have another weapon for magicka users other than a staff? Duel wands or a wand and offhand book/orb? Something? Anything?

Alucardo

Faulgor wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

I feel like all classes besides the sorc have really good morphs for stam, some more than others.

Almost all the skills for sorcerer are catered to magicka. You have hurricane, bound armaments, I know I'm missing another skill. Crit surge is really good for stam sorc too. But skills def need rework, more stam morph options.

As for Stamsorcs, they currently lack any defining theme whatsoever, so it's difficult to make concrete suggestions how to improve them. It's in their lore that they're skilled with artifacts and enchantments, so it's not unreasonable that they make more use of weapon skills than other stamina classes, but they need something to make that shine.

At this point they may as well rename stamsorc to "2h greatsword". I feel more of a connection to that weapon tree than the actual class. Bad design imho.

redspecter23 wrote: »

Honestly, this was very disappointing to hear. It's great that necromancer is getting a ton of solid stamina morphs. That part is great. The disappointing part was that nothing was said about going back and helping out the other 5 classes. If this is the way classes will be designed going forward, they need to go back and add some more stam morphs to other classes. There is now no reason that DK can't have a stamina whip.

It makes sense. When the game originally came out stamina builds were unheard of. Eventually they were hacked in, and in some classes you can really see the evidence (Stam sorc).
Now that stamina is an actual spec type, new classes will obviously be better designed around it. As I said earlier though, they can't really go back and change magicka morphs to stamina on older classes because people are using them. Trust me, I'd love if they would, but I can't see it happening.