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Necromancers with only 2 short duration pets and stamina morths. Why? Most disappointment class ever
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L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »SilverIce58 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Grumblestiltskin wrote: »Multiple summoned skeletons would be a nightmare in towns. Bad enough as it is with bears and sorc pets blocking everything.
Easy fix.
A ) You can't collide with pets
B ) They will be attacked by guards
C ) They move after "X" secondsTo be fair, when Necro was first revealed they clearly stated it wont be a traditional pet class and the skeletons will have a limited duration... so, yeah...
So why call it an necromancer? Mannimarco on Oblivion can summon an Lich... An Lich.
because your character is just some dude. Mannimarco is the King of Worms.
Your character is the Molag Bal slayer(in a army of Molag Bal slayers fighting 2 armies of daedra prince slayers)... See the average necromancer, what they can summon on elder scrolls lore, i an not arguing for summon lich be in the game(maybe as a ult)
We'll be able to summon a flesh colossus, and become a bone tyrant, and you want us to summon a paltry lich? No thanks
paltry lich? Do you know what a lich is? Is a magician that mastered necromancy to the point of being able to defy death itself. The fact that some games portrait then as "just another creature" doesn't means that they are weak.I only play magicka characters, but I will say this. I am glad stamina players now have a class that has more then 2 stamina morphs for class skills.
Anyone who is whining over all the stamina morphs for class skills really is just being ridiculous.
No, the problem is not the "stamina", is that :
1 - Necromancer should't be focused on stamina
2 - The stamina morths are much better than magicka ones
If the Warden has some shapechange skills with stamina usage, it will be epic.
Ok, that is wrong, stam morphs are NOT better than the magicka ones, they are about equal.
Picking the first tree https://www.docdroid.net/GHn5d53/necromancer-skills-and-passives.pdf
Blastbone Skeleton = Stamina can apply Major Defile while magick one requires an ranged run
Boneyard = applies Major Fracture and Breach
Skeletal Mage = Deals more DPS(stamina) vs take damage from a explosion on the end
An stamina necro probably will be the greatest debuffer in the game. An magicka necro, will be weaker than a sorc.SilverIce58 wrote: »
The necromancer class hasn't even been released for us to playtest and you think it doesn't feel like a necromancer? Wow. Just wow.L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »The necro class in other hands, doesn't feel like the necromancer.
Show me one necromancer in any Elder scrolls game(including online) that can only maintain an animated servant for few seconds.
Your 2 temporary pets looks much more like DoT's.Edited by L0rdV1ct0r on March 28, 2019 8:26PM1 -
MaselClass RepresentativeL0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Terion_Fyr wrote: »all i wanted was a necromancer healer, now i have one
An ""necromancer"" that focus more in stamina skills than raising the dead.
What is the next? An werebear with death magic?
So the class has 36 morphs, out of which 6 are dedicated stamina morphs. See a problem there?PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA3 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Terion_Fyr wrote: »all i wanted was a necromancer healer, now i have one
An ""necromancer"" that focus more in stamina skills than raising the dead.
What is the next? An werebear with death magic?
So the class has 36 morphs, out of which 6 are dedicated stamina morphs. See a problem there?
The best skills for DPS
Anyway, Dragonknight and similar classes needs more stamina, not necros. Necros are always about magic in any Elder Scroll game.1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »SilverIce58 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Grumblestiltskin wrote: »Multiple summoned skeletons would be a nightmare in towns. Bad enough as it is with bears and sorc pets blocking everything.
Easy fix.
A ) You can't collide with pets
B ) They will be attacked by guards
C ) They move after "X" secondsTo be fair, when Necro was first revealed they clearly stated it wont be a traditional pet class and the skeletons will have a limited duration... so, yeah...
So why call it an necromancer? Mannimarco on Oblivion can summon an Lich... An Lich.
because your character is just some dude. Mannimarco is the King of Worms.
Your character is the Molag Bal slayer(in a army of Molag Bal slayers fighting 2 armies of daedra prince slayers)... See the average necromancer, what they can summon on elder scrolls lore, i an not arguing for summon lich be in the game(maybe as a ult)
We'll be able to summon a flesh colossus, and become a bone tyrant, and you want us to summon a paltry lich? No thanks
paltry lich? Do you know what a lich is? Is a magician that mastered necromancy to the point of being able to defy death itself. The fact that some games portrait then as "just another creature" doesn't means that they are weak.I only play magicka characters, but I will say this. I am glad stamina players now have a class that has more then 2 stamina morphs for class skills.
Anyone who is whining over all the stamina morphs for class skills really is just being ridiculous.
No, the problem is not the "stamina", is that :
1 - Necromancer should't be focused on stamina
2 - The stamina morths are much better than magicka ones
If the Warden has some shapechange skills with stamina usage, it will be epic.
Ok, that is wrong, stam morphs are NOT better than the magicka ones, they are about equal.
Picking the first tree https://www.docdroid.net/GHn5d53/necromancer-skills-and-passives.pdf
Blastbone Skeleton = Stamina can apply Major Defile while magick one requires an ranged run
Boneyard = applies Major Fracture and Breach
Skeletal Mage = Deals more DPS(stamina) vs take damage from a explosion on the end
An stamina necro probably will be the greatest debuffer in the game. An magicka necro, will be weaker than a sorc.SilverIce58 wrote: »
The necromancer class hasn't even been released for us to playtest and you think it doesn't feel like a necromancer? Wow. Just wow.L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »The necro class in other hands, doesn't feel like the necromancer.
Show me one necromancer in any Elder scrolls game(including online) that can only maintain an animated servant for few seconds.
Your 2 temporary pets looks much more like DoT's.
Well, for one the one you linked doesn;t even have tooltips, so really man, that;s your best effort?
Second, alcast actually got the highest dps out of any class on mag cro, so, yea, i think i'm gonna trust him, rather than a random forum man.
https://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/build-planer/
And also, yea, mag ver of the abilities doesn't seem worse than the stam, at least for me, being able to activate your own synergy is really good, not only you get damage, but also resources, just one example.Edited by JinMori on March 28, 2019 8:36PM3 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Thats not how the burden of proof works. YOU have to prove why magicka morphs are not as good as stamina, since you made the that particular claim, i just stated magicka looks equally as awesome as stamina... as well it has few more morphs than stamina.L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Necromancer should't be focused on stamina
There is plenty of Magicka morphs as well, some of them offer some decent info, and more of them seem pretty awesome actually. Just by the looks to be more magica morphs versus stamina as well...
So why you got to reach for straws that are not there now?
Show me one magic morth that can compete with stamina ones
So, until you can provide us with video evidence that has detailed game play mechanics on each skill and the morphs in pve solo, group and pvp content, time to stop grasping at straws and cherry picking your arguments.
Edited by StormeReigns on March 28, 2019 8:37PM8 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
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Thats not how the burden of proof works. YOU have to prove why magicka morphs are not as good as stamina, since you made the that particular claim, i just stated magicka looks equally as awesome as stamina...L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Necromancer should't be focused on stamina
There is plenty of Magicka morphs as well, some of them offer some decent info, and more of them seem pretty awesome actually. Just by the looks to be more magica morphs versus stamina as well...
So why you got to reach for straws that are not there now?
Show me one magic morth that can compete with stamina ones
So, until you can provide us with video evidence that has detailed game play mechanics on each skill and the morphs in pve solo, group and pvp content, time to stop grasping at straws and cherry picking your arguments.
The problem is that he can't, because this is all feeling, you can't see which is better until we test it, unless it's extremely obvious like, 1 ability does 10 damage and the other does 1.
But that's not the case here.Edited by JinMori on March 28, 2019 8:37PM4 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.0 -
Edaphon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Don't buy it then.
You obviously want to play a Sorc. Good news for you, you already can!6 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Don't buy it then.
You obviously want to play a Sorc. Good news for you, you already can!
No, i wanna be able to be an necromancer. But an true necromancer, that can curse enemies, that can raise an undead army, etc. Sorcerer is more necromancer than the """"necromancer"""" but still not like what i expect. AoC did necromancy right. Unfortunately is abandoned by funcom.0 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »As with beauty, it is in the eyes of the beholder. And I don't mean the one from D&D lol. I love the class how they made it. It is everything I was hoping it would be. And I am loving that it isn't a total magicka based class like every other class in game. I look forward to this class coming out as is.
I still have that edition in a box somewhere.
Edited by Ackwalan on March 28, 2019 8:55PM3 -
moses1763✭✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
well I already bought and paid for and will purchase slots as necessary to have one of each. I can appreciate your concerns but have you even played the necro? I would ask you to give it a try like the rest of us before going all doom and gloom on the class; from what I seen in the reveals all I can say is "are We there yet...?"
edit: as a side note Ty Masel for ur vids very informative and helpful.Edited by moses1763 on March 28, 2019 8:57PMLive, Laugh, and Hope!2 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Then dont buy it. They won't miss you not buying it compared to someone else purchasing it. Its just one purchase.
You really can't compare the necromancer class to any class right now bc everything about necro is subject to change, especially after the class drops on the pts. Then we can test everything, and THEN you can compare the two after it hits live.PC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC2 -
Loralai_907✭✭✭✭✭
✭At first, I was super excited when they announced a Necro class and got all these ideas in my head about what I hoped I could do with one. Then it was kind of like, maybe what I think one should do doesn't match up with what they actually will be able to do and I got a little bummed out. And then today I find out that not only can I do exactly what I wanted but they are also going to potentially kick butt at it. So I am super excited. I don't know why the idea of a build all about denial makes me so gdam happy.
I could care less about pets, on any build, on any class. You can have my lifetime share of them.PC-NA - formerly, mommadani907Guild: Weeping Angels - Co-GMTwitter: @ Loralai_907 several Alt accounts....CP 1700+Active characters:Fauna Rosewood ( Bosmer Stam DK - Master Crafter/AD)///Loralai Darknova (Drunken Zombie Bosmer Stam Sorc - PvP/AD)Lilith Darknova ( Dunmer Mag DK - Master Crafter - PvP/AD)///and roughly 1billion alts0 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Don't buy it then.
You obviously want to play a Sorc. Good news for you, you already can!
No, i wanna be able to be an necromancer. But an true necromancer, that can curse enemies, that can raise an undead army, etc. Sorcerer is more necromancer than the """"necromancer"""" but still not like what i expect. AoC did necromancy right. Unfortunately is abandoned by funcom.
So, this is really all about how you only want AoC Necromancer, and sad that AoC has long died, thus wanting your nostalgia pleased with a horde of skeletons out with no care to the game mechanics or 30+years of established lore.
ES lore dictates that necromancy is bad, very bad. And to permanently bind / bound the dead is considered unspeakably evil, while temporarily using them wouldn't be evil, but socially and ethically bad (justice system.)
Yes the player characters can do some bad things, but if going by alignments, it is clear the moral compass wouldn't allow it to happen cause, we fight the big bad evils, despite how honorable or horrible we make ourselves out to be in game we are still the good guys, even if we cool or just big old jerks in the end.1 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »As with beauty, it is in the eyes of the beholder. And I don't mean the one from D&D lol. I love the class how they made it. It is everything I was hoping it would be. And I am loving that it isn't a total magicka based class like every other class in game. I look forward to this class coming out as is.
I still have that edition in a box somewhere.
Lol. Me too!
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Terion_Fyr wrote: »all i wanted was a necromancer healer, now i have one
An ""necromancer"" that focus more in stamina skills than raising the dead.
What is the next? An werebear with death magic?
You really need to stop lol. This is not a necromancer that you enjoyed in other forms of fiction. It was NEVER going to be a perma pet skeleton army, curse dropping blood warlock.
In elderscrolls it is a much different affair, deal with it.3 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »The first RPG of my life was M&M VII. An sorcerer in dark 'path' can become an Lich and after investing a lot into dark magic, can reanimate even dragons to fight for you, can mass damage and heal my and other party members with souldrinker. On Diablo 2, i can have an army of undead skeletons and revived mobs, can create an living fire golem, can curse enemies to take control over then or make then damage thelselves, lower theyr resistance, etc. On Baldur's Gate and Icewind dale, i can easily raise an shade/undead army and on Pathfinder Kingmaker, too. Few animate dead casts raise an undead army.
"but they are SP rpg", look to Age of Conan. Necromancers can have 8 minions or 11 depending of how they spected. On Guild Wars 1 too. On AoC they receive the "minion" template and deals much less damage to balance, but in overall, an necromancer is the highest single target dps class in AoC, demonologist is the best AOE DPS.
Now ESO. What necromancers in ESO have?
- Morths that are much better than stamina
- Only two temporary short duration pets
- No epic summon as ultimate aka undead dragon
To be fair, even sorcerer with 2 pets skills and one ultimate are more "pet class" than ESO necro. Here is the details of the class https://www.docdroid.net/GHn5d53/necromancer-skills-and-passives.pdf#page=7
What i was expecting in necromancer?
- Some type of blood magic that damages the caster but has high DPS on "dps tree", with spammable and DOT's there.
- Instead of the necromancer tanking, summoning golems to tank for him on on tanking tree
- Leaching enemy hp into teammates on "healing tree"
Not this, this is just another "generic caster". I was thinking in purchase this expansion but honestly will skip. ESO don't fulfill an "master of life and death" fantasy. There aren't an single expansion in any TES game who focused on necromancy. The first one was very lackluster TBH.
they clearly stated it will not be a petclass... stop qqing about a class you not like. Go play sorc or warden if you want pets lol. Raising the dead in any good fantasy game is not permanent cause corpses are 99% decayed and very brittle. You cant make a skeleton or fleshy zombie walk on for miles and miles. So them dying after some seconds or doing suicidal attacks really fits the necromancer.
1 - So, necromancers are useless at enslaving the (un)dead. How it is fine?
2 - There are skeletons that lasts for millenniums
Not in elder scrolls fiction0 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Don't buy it then.
You obviously want to play a Sorc. Good news for you, you already can!
No, i wanna be able to be an necromancer. But an true necromancer, that can curse enemies, that can raise an undead army, etc. Sorcerer is more necromancer than the """"necromancer"""" but still not like what i expect. AoC did necromancy right. Unfortunately is abandoned by funcom.
So, this is really all about how you only want AoC Necromancer, and sad that AoC has long died, thus wanting your nostalgia pleased with a horde of skeletons out with no care to the game mechanics or 30+years of established lore.
(...)
Is not nostalgia of AoC. In fact, was the first mmo that i liked but is much more nostalgia from older RPG necromancers. I mean, the first rpg of my life was M&M VII. You are an "dark mage", but can use your dark magic to reanimate servants or do other stuff. There are almost a decade since i saw an game with good necro implementation
About lore, look to Morrowind, any dunmer start with Ancestor Guardian that is literally summoning an ancestral to aid you "buffing" you.
About AoC, Conan is a low magic setting where magic is dangerous and evil. There are no good magician in AoC. Or you bargain with the forces of hell(demonologist/herald of xotli) or you manipulate the (un)life and enslave the dead. Different than elder scrolls that i can argue that is a very high magical setting.In fact, i believe that an necro should sacrifice his own blood to summon in AoC. But in EsO, necromancy is probably the more limited version of necromancy that i saw in any gameexeeter702 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »The first RPG of my life was M&M VII. An sorcerer in dark 'path' can become an Lich and after investing a lot into dark magic, can reanimate even dragons to fight for you, can mass damage and heal my and other party members with souldrinker. On Diablo 2, i can have an army of undead skeletons and revived mobs, can create an living fire golem, can curse enemies to take control over then or make then damage thelselves, lower theyr resistance, etc. On Baldur's Gate and Icewind dale, i can easily raise an shade/undead army and on Pathfinder Kingmaker, too. Few animate dead casts raise an undead army.
"but they are SP rpg", look to Age of Conan. Necromancers can have 8 minions or 11 depending of how they spected. On Guild Wars 1 too. On AoC they receive the "minion" template and deals much less damage to balance, but in overall, an necromancer is the highest single target dps class in AoC, demonologist is the best AOE DPS.
Now ESO. What necromancers in ESO have?
- Morths that are much better than stamina
- Only two temporary short duration pets
- No epic summon as ultimate aka undead dragon
To be fair, even sorcerer with 2 pets skills and one ultimate are more "pet class" than ESO necro. Here is the details of the class https://www.docdroid.net/GHn5d53/necromancer-skills-and-passives.pdf#page=7
What i was expecting in necromancer?
- Some type of blood magic that damages the caster but has high DPS on "dps tree", with spammable and DOT's there.
- Instead of the necromancer tanking, summoning golems to tank for him on on tanking tree
- Leaching enemy hp into teammates on "healing tree"
Not this, this is just another "generic caster". I was thinking in purchase this expansion but honestly will skip. ESO don't fulfill an "master of life and death" fantasy. There aren't an single expansion in any TES game who focused on necromancy. The first one was very lackluster TBH.
they clearly stated it will not be a petclass... stop qqing about a class you not like. Go play sorc or warden if you want pets lol. Raising the dead in any good fantasy game is not permanent cause corpses are 99% decayed and very brittle. You cant make a skeleton or fleshy zombie walk on for miles and miles. So them dying after some seconds or doing suicidal attacks really fits the necromancer.
1 - So, necromancers are useless at enslaving the (un)dead. How it is fine?
2 - There are skeletons that lasts for millenniums
Not in elder scrolls fiction
Show me one skeleton that is destroyed after being conjured for an fraction of minute by any necromancer in any elder scrolls game.Edited by L0rdV1ct0r on March 28, 2019 9:32PM0 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Don't buy it then.
You obviously want to play a Sorc. Good news for you, you already can!
No, i wanna be able to be an necromancer. But an true necromancer, that can curse enemies, that can raise an undead army, etc. Sorcerer is more necromancer than the """"necromancer"""" but still not like what i expect. AoC did necromancy right. Unfortunately is abandoned by funcom.
So, this is really all about how you only want AoC Necromancer, and sad that AoC has long died, thus wanting your nostalgia pleased with a horde of skeletons out with no care to the game mechanics or 30+years of established lore.
(...)
Is not nostalgia of AoC. In fact, was the first mmo that i liked but is much more nostalgia from older RPG necromancers. I mean, the first rpg of my life was M&M VII. You are an "dark mage", but can use your dark magic to reanimate servants. There are almost a decade since i saw an game with good necro implementation
About lore, look to Morrowind, any dunmer start with Ancestor Guardian that is literally summoning an ancestral to aid you "buffing" you.
About AoC, Conan is a low magic setting where magic is dangerous. Different than elder scrolls that i can argue that is a very high magical setting.In fact, i believe that an necro should sacrifice his own blood to summon in AoC. But in EsO, necromancy is probably the more limited version of necromancy that i saw in any gameexeeter702 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »The first RPG of my life was M&M VII. An sorcerer in dark 'path' can become an Lich and after investing a lot into dark magic, can reanimate even dragons to fight for you, can mass damage and heal my and other party members with souldrinker. On Diablo 2, i can have an army of undead skeletons and revived mobs, can create an living fire golem, can curse enemies to take control over then or make then damage thelselves, lower theyr resistance, etc. On Baldur's Gate and Icewind dale, i can easily raise an shade/undead army and on Pathfinder Kingmaker, too. Few animate dead casts raise an undead army.
"but they are SP rpg", look to Age of Conan. Necromancers can have 8 minions or 11 depending of how they spected. On Guild Wars 1 too. On AoC they receive the "minion" template and deals much less damage to balance, but in overall, an necromancer is the highest single target dps class in AoC, demonologist is the best AOE DPS.
Now ESO. What necromancers in ESO have?
- Morths that are much better than stamina
- Only two temporary short duration pets
- No epic summon as ultimate aka undead dragon
To be fair, even sorcerer with 2 pets skills and one ultimate are more "pet class" than ESO necro. Here is the details of the class https://www.docdroid.net/GHn5d53/necromancer-skills-and-passives.pdf#page=7
What i was expecting in necromancer?
- Some type of blood magic that damages the caster but has high DPS on "dps tree", with spammable and DOT's there.
- Instead of the necromancer tanking, summoning golems to tank for him on on tanking tree
- Leaching enemy hp into teammates on "healing tree"
Not this, this is just another "generic caster". I was thinking in purchase this expansion but honestly will skip. ESO don't fulfill an "master of life and death" fantasy. There aren't an single expansion in any TES game who focused on necromancy. The first one was very lackluster TBH.
they clearly stated it will not be a petclass... stop qqing about a class you not like. Go play sorc or warden if you want pets lol. Raising the dead in any good fantasy game is not permanent cause corpses are 99% decayed and very brittle. You cant make a skeleton or fleshy zombie walk on for miles and miles. So them dying after some seconds or doing suicidal attacks really fits the necromancer.
1 - So, necromancers are useless at enslaving the (un)dead. How it is fine?
2 - There are skeletons that lasts for millenniums
Not in elder scrolls fiction
Show me one skeleton that dies after being conjured for an fraction of minute by any necromancer in any elder scrolls game.
The first skeleton you summon in oblivion. The first corpse you raise in skyrim dies after like half a minute. You can't raise a dead thrall in skyrim until you hit 100 Conjuration.PC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sounds like people are getting a lot of their ideas of necromancers from other games and other lore outside of Elder Scrolls. Not that I don't see why one wouldn't assume you COULD have undead pets, but nothing is crazy about having them be temporary IMO. So sure, I understand the disappointment, but pointing to what other games did in a completely different game/balance system won't really matter. Surprised they didn't at least give them one zombie or skele pet to just keep around though.
Personally, I'm a fan of most of what I've seen about necromancers in ESO, though they are probably over tuned a bit still. It is funny that the one of the classes to benefit lease from the necropotence set is a necromancer though.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭Sounds like people are getting a lot of their ideas of necromancers from other games and other lore outside of Elder Scrolls. Not that I don't see why one wouldn't assume you COULD have undead pets, but nothing is crazy about having them be temporary IMO. So sure, I understand the disappointment, but pointing to what other games did in a completely different game/balance system won't really matter. Surprised they didn't at least give them one zombie or skele pet to just keep around though.
Personally, I'm a fan of most of what I've seen about necromancers in ESO, though they are probably over tuned a bit still. It is funny that the one of the classes to benefit lease from the necropotence set is a necromancer though.
I have played a lot previous games
Can easily make an spell that summons an Storn Atronach for a long time on morrowind. In ESO, as a sorcerer, i can have a perma tank and a perma long range dps.0 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭SilverIce58 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Don't buy it then.
You obviously want to play a Sorc. Good news for you, you already can!
No, i wanna be able to be an necromancer. But an true necromancer, that can curse enemies, that can raise an undead army, etc. Sorcerer is more necromancer than the """"necromancer"""" but still not like what i expect. AoC did necromancy right. Unfortunately is abandoned by funcom.
So, this is really all about how you only want AoC Necromancer, and sad that AoC has long died, thus wanting your nostalgia pleased with a horde of skeletons out with no care to the game mechanics or 30+years of established lore.
(...)
Is not nostalgia of AoC. In fact, was the first mmo that i liked but is much more nostalgia from older RPG necromancers. I mean, the first rpg of my life was M&M VII. You are an "dark mage", but can use your dark magic to reanimate servants. There are almost a decade since i saw an game with good necro implementation
About lore, look to Morrowind, any dunmer start with Ancestor Guardian that is literally summoning an ancestral to aid you "buffing" you.
About AoC, Conan is a low magic setting where magic is dangerous. Different than elder scrolls that i can argue that is a very high magical setting.In fact, i believe that an necro should sacrifice his own blood to summon in AoC. But in EsO, necromancy is probably the more limited version of necromancy that i saw in any gameexeeter702 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »The first RPG of my life was M&M VII. An sorcerer in dark 'path' can become an Lich and after investing a lot into dark magic, can reanimate even dragons to fight for you, can mass damage and heal my and other party members with souldrinker. On Diablo 2, i can have an army of undead skeletons and revived mobs, can create an living fire golem, can curse enemies to take control over then or make then damage thelselves, lower theyr resistance, etc. On Baldur's Gate and Icewind dale, i can easily raise an shade/undead army and on Pathfinder Kingmaker, too. Few animate dead casts raise an undead army.
"but they are SP rpg", look to Age of Conan. Necromancers can have 8 minions or 11 depending of how they spected. On Guild Wars 1 too. On AoC they receive the "minion" template and deals much less damage to balance, but in overall, an necromancer is the highest single target dps class in AoC, demonologist is the best AOE DPS.
Now ESO. What necromancers in ESO have?
- Morths that are much better than stamina
- Only two temporary short duration pets
- No epic summon as ultimate aka undead dragon
To be fair, even sorcerer with 2 pets skills and one ultimate are more "pet class" than ESO necro. Here is the details of the class https://www.docdroid.net/GHn5d53/necromancer-skills-and-passives.pdf#page=7
What i was expecting in necromancer?
- Some type of blood magic that damages the caster but has high DPS on "dps tree", with spammable and DOT's there.
- Instead of the necromancer tanking, summoning golems to tank for him on on tanking tree
- Leaching enemy hp into teammates on "healing tree"
Not this, this is just another "generic caster". I was thinking in purchase this expansion but honestly will skip. ESO don't fulfill an "master of life and death" fantasy. There aren't an single expansion in any TES game who focused on necromancy. The first one was very lackluster TBH.
they clearly stated it will not be a petclass... stop qqing about a class you not like. Go play sorc or warden if you want pets lol. Raising the dead in any good fantasy game is not permanent cause corpses are 99% decayed and very brittle. You cant make a skeleton or fleshy zombie walk on for miles and miles. So them dying after some seconds or doing suicidal attacks really fits the necromancer.
1 - So, necromancers are useless at enslaving the (un)dead. How it is fine?
2 - There are skeletons that lasts for millenniums
Not in elder scrolls fiction
Show me one skeleton that dies after being conjured for an fraction of minute by any necromancer in any elder scrolls game.
The first skeleton you summon in oblivion. The first corpse you raise in skyrim dies after like half a minute. You can't raise a dead thrall in skyrim until you hit 100 Conjuration.
The first spell lasts too little on Skyrim, that is true. But as you've said, maximizing conjuration allow you to have very long lasting summons and multiple summons.
Also, ultra limited summoning is not present lore wise. Sloads will not be feared if they can only rise undeads for that short amount. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:N'Gasta0 -
MaselClass RepresentativeL0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Necro has a pet that heals allies, can curse enemies, can summon pets that last quite a bit too and it can conjure a bone armor. On top of that it can use corpses, transform into a bone colossus, instantly revive allies, summon entire graveyards, has skeletons with different gear on every time you recast them.If you want necros to do the same as a sorc, then why even make one?PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA6 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭You speak about GW2, but seem like you don't have push to the end game.
Necro with minion army was only stupidly OP for lazy overland content.
Other than that it was not even close to be as good as the Reaper.
And what is a Reaper ? Yeah, a 2h close fighter user, very cool class.
I'm, like some other, pretty glad than eso don't fall in facility and make us a 3rd pet class (I mean, they've pet, but not the same as other an not with infinite timer).
The way it is seem pretty interesting. If you don't like, no one force you to play it. You've sorcerer if you wanna a summoner, warden also.
You've your point, that doesn't mean everyone have to say "yes".Edited by Aznarb on March 28, 2019 10:14PM[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭You speak about GW2, but seem like you don't have push to the end game.
Necro with minion army was only stupidly OP for lazy overland content.(...).
I was not talking about GW2, but about GW1. Tested GW2 but really din't liked.
About 3rd pet class, there are no "pet dedicated" class. You can choose to use pets or not as sorc/warden but i can argue that a minority useL0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Necro has a pet that heals allies, can curse enemies, can summon pets that last quite a bit too and it can conjure a bone armor. On top of that it can use corpses, transform into a bone colossus, instantly revive allies, summon entire graveyards, has skeletons with different gear on every time you recast them.If you want necros to do the same as a sorc, then why even make one?
I din't saw a single curse on skills and the monster with greatest duration(bone mage) only lasts for 16 seconds. While as a sorc i can summon 2 minions, go afk for 5 hours, do a dungeon and if they don't die, i don't need to ressumon then.0 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭
I an not trolling or saying that ESO is a bad game only because i din't liked the implementation of one class.
In fact, i loved the implementation of Sorcerer, din't played much with other classes to have an opinion. Sure, offer less "freedom" than SP games, but is expected in a mmo.0 -
moses1763✭✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »
I an not trolling or saying that ESO is a bad game only because i din't liked the implementation of one class.
In fact, i loved the implementation of Sorcerer, din't played much with other classes to have an opinion. Sure, offer less "freedom" than SP games, but is expected in a mmo.L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »
I an not trolling or saying that ESO is a bad game only because i din't liked the implementation of one class.
In fact, i loved the implementation of Sorcerer, din't played much with other classes to have an opinion. Sure, offer less "freedom" than SP games, but is expected in a mmo.
that the problem I see in ur opinion/posts you seem to want a Necro that plays more like a Sorc just under a different name. The mag version and stam version both seem high in potential with each spell feeding the other in power but nothing is final yet but the theory crafter in me is like singing with possibilities.Live, Laugh, and Hope!0 -
L0rdV1ct0r✭✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »
I an not trolling or saying that ESO is a bad game only because i din't liked the implementation of one class.
In fact, i loved the implementation of Sorcerer, din't played much with other classes to have an opinion. Sure, offer less "freedom" than SP games, but is expected in a mmo.L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »
I an not trolling or saying that ESO is a bad game only because i din't liked the implementation of one class.
In fact, i loved the implementation of Sorcerer, din't played much with other classes to have an opinion. Sure, offer less "freedom" than SP games, but is expected in a mmo.
that the problem I see in ur opinion/posts you seem to want a Necro that plays more like a Sorc just under a different name. The mag version and stam version both seem high in potential with each spell feeding the other in power but nothing is final yet but the theory crafter in me is like singing with possibilities.
No, if you see my suggestions in the first one
- Some type of blood magic that damages the caster but has high DPS on "dps tree", with spammable and DOT's there.
- Instead of the necromancer tanking, summoning golems to tank for him on on tanking tree
- Leaching enemy hp into teammates on "healing tree"
Spells that costs health will be something unique in all classes(and fit necromancer lore), leaching enemy hp into minions/party members too. Only the part of curse/perma minions has something in common with daedra summoning sorc.Edited by L0rdV1ct0r on March 28, 2019 10:57PM0 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »Anyone really believes that an situational damage increase is better than an big debuff that will increase the damage of everyone playing?
Now about necro X sorc. An sorc heavily focused on Daedra summoning can :
- Cast curses on enemies(Daedric Curse)
- Summon perma pets, including an tanker pet clannfear's(that can self heal)
- Summon an long range pet that can heal allies(Twilight Matriarch)
- Conjure armor(Bound Armor)
What is the problem to ask for necros be able to do the same? I see no reason to buy necro.
Don't buy it then.
You obviously want to play a Sorc. Good news for you, you already can!
No, i wanna be able to be an necromancer. But an true necromancer, that can curse enemies, that can raise an undead army, etc. Sorcerer is more necromancer than the """"necromancer"""" but still not like what i expect. AoC did necromancy right. Unfortunately is abandoned by funcom.
So, this is really all about how you only want AoC Necromancer, and sad that AoC has long died, thus wanting your nostalgia pleased with a horde of skeletons out with no care to the game mechanics or 30+years of established lore.
(...)
Is not nostalgia of AoC. In fact, was the first mmo that i liked but is much more nostalgia from older RPG necromancers. I mean, the first rpg of my life was M&M VII. You are an "dark mage", but can use your dark magic to reanimate servants or do other stuff. There are almost a decade since i saw an game with good necro implementation
About lore, look to Morrowind, any dunmer start with Ancestor Guardian that is literally summoning an ancestral to aid you "buffing" you.
About AoC, Conan is a low magic setting where magic is dangerous and evil. There are no good magician in AoC. Or you bargain with the forces of hell(demonologist/herald of xotli) or you manipulate the (un)life and enslave the dead. Different than elder scrolls that i can argue that is a very high magical setting.In fact, i believe that an necro should sacrifice his own blood to summon in AoC. But in EsO, necromancy is probably the more limited version of necromancy that i saw in any gameexeeter702 wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »The first RPG of my life was M&M VII. An sorcerer in dark 'path' can become an Lich and after investing a lot into dark magic, can reanimate even dragons to fight for you, can mass damage and heal my and other party members with souldrinker. On Diablo 2, i can have an army of undead skeletons and revived mobs, can create an living fire golem, can curse enemies to take control over then or make then damage thelselves, lower theyr resistance, etc. On Baldur's Gate and Icewind dale, i can easily raise an shade/undead army and on Pathfinder Kingmaker, too. Few animate dead casts raise an undead army.
"but they are SP rpg", look to Age of Conan. Necromancers can have 8 minions or 11 depending of how they spected. On Guild Wars 1 too. On AoC they receive the "minion" template and deals much less damage to balance, but in overall, an necromancer is the highest single target dps class in AoC, demonologist is the best AOE DPS.
Now ESO. What necromancers in ESO have?
- Morths that are much better than stamina
- Only two temporary short duration pets
- No epic summon as ultimate aka undead dragon
To be fair, even sorcerer with 2 pets skills and one ultimate are more "pet class" than ESO necro. Here is the details of the class https://www.docdroid.net/GHn5d53/necromancer-skills-and-passives.pdf#page=7
What i was expecting in necromancer?
- Some type of blood magic that damages the caster but has high DPS on "dps tree", with spammable and DOT's there.
- Instead of the necromancer tanking, summoning golems to tank for him on on tanking tree
- Leaching enemy hp into teammates on "healing tree"
Not this, this is just another "generic caster". I was thinking in purchase this expansion but honestly will skip. ESO don't fulfill an "master of life and death" fantasy. There aren't an single expansion in any TES game who focused on necromancy. The first one was very lackluster TBH.
they clearly stated it will not be a petclass... stop qqing about a class you not like. Go play sorc or warden if you want pets lol. Raising the dead in any good fantasy game is not permanent cause corpses are 99% decayed and very brittle. You cant make a skeleton or fleshy zombie walk on for miles and miles. So them dying after some seconds or doing suicidal attacks really fits the necromancer.
1 - So, necromancers are useless at enslaving the (un)dead. How it is fine?
2 - There are skeletons that lasts for millenniums
Not in elder scrolls fiction
Show me one skeleton that is destroyed after being conjured for an fraction of minute by any necromancer in any elder scrolls game.
Skyrim, raise the dead. There's a shout too.
There, done.2
