Dragon invasion breaks the lore, we should all be dead or dying soon

AuraNebula

lordrichter wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Pretty sure the lore will just write it off as a dragon break. Actually this whole game could then be considered a dragon break.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Nothing in ESO implies even a bit that a Dragon Break is taking place.

Really 3 factions fighting for control of Tamriel isn't going to be considered a dragon break? Who's going to win? Is no one going to win? Are all 3 going to win? With a dragon break all that is possible.

Who says anyone wins? When Tiber Septim shows up, all of this gets resolved.

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

With how big this game is, with all the dlc and chapters writing it off as it was just lost, is pretty lazy imo.

ESO is placed at this time in Elder Scrolls history for that reason. BGS never bothered to write any detailed history. They had no reason to do so. Since we are not in a dragon break, ESO exists in the Elder Scrolls history, and ZOS is writing it.

I never said it wasn't going to exist in history. The other person did. Even if it was a dragon break doesn't mean it wouldn't be recorded. How would we know about dragon breaks? Because they wrote them. Doesn't matter if its ZOS or BGS, it's still considered an Elder Scrolls game.

Tiber Septim the Emperor who caused a dragon break, could never possibly have caused another dragon break? Lmao

Elsonso

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Tiber Septim the Emperor who caused a dragon break, could never possibly have caused another dragon break? Lmao

I am basing the "not in a dragon break" concept around the idea that a while back I am pretty sure that ZOS said "not in a dragon break". That seems pretty definitive, at least for the moment. Besides, if they wanted to use a dragon break, it would be easier to use one that already existed and simply include ESO in the effect. No need to create a new one.

AuraNebula

lordrichter wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Tiber Septim the Emperor who caused a dragon break, could never possibly have caused another dragon break? Lmao

I am basing the "not in a dragon break" concept around the idea that a while back I am pretty sure that ZOS said "not in a dragon break". That seems pretty definitive, at least for the moment. Besides, if they wanted to use a dragon break, it would be easier to use one that already existed and simply include ESO in the effect. No need to create a new one.

They never said that. Plus there is more than 1 dragon break in the game and you can't just throw a whole era into another era and say that's good enough.

Elsonso

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Tiber Septim the Emperor who caused a dragon break, could never possibly have caused another dragon break? Lmao

I am basing the "not in a dragon break" concept around the idea that a while back I am pretty sure that ZOS said "not in a dragon break". That seems pretty definitive, at least for the moment. Besides, if they wanted to use a dragon break, it would be easier to use one that already existed and simply include ESO in the effect. No need to create a new one.

They never said that. Plus there is more than 1 dragon break in the game and you can't just throw a whole era into another era and say that's good enough.

I am pretty sure they did, but what I remember was a comment in a place that is not easily searchable, and I frankly don't have the time to chase it down just to provide a link in here. Maybe someone else has already done this and can link to it.

AuraNebula

lordrichter wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Tiber Septim the Emperor who caused a dragon break, could never possibly have caused another dragon break? Lmao

I am basing the "not in a dragon break" concept around the idea that a while back I am pretty sure that ZOS said "not in a dragon break". That seems pretty definitive, at least for the moment. Besides, if they wanted to use a dragon break, it would be easier to use one that already existed and simply include ESO in the effect. No need to create a new one.

They never said that. Plus there is more than 1 dragon break in the game and you can't just throw a whole era into another era and say that's good enough.

I am pretty sure they did, but what I remember was a comment in a place that is not easily searchable, and I frankly don't have the time to chase it down just to provide a link in here. Maybe someone else has already done this and can link to it.

No they really didn't. If they said that it would be so easy because the lore community would have been all over it. I looked after that and could not find anything. That's not something they would just casually mention. Besides in most games we don't even know a dragon break occurred until they tell us in the games that come after.

Bruccius

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Pretty sure the lore will just write it off as a dragon break. Actually this whole game could then be considered a dragon break.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Nothing in ESO implies even a bit that a Dragon Break is taking place.

Really 3 factions fighting for control of Tamriel isn't going to be considered a dragon break? Who's going to win? Is no one going to win? Are all 3 going to win? With a dragon break all that is possible.

How about: None of them wins?

If we are to say the Vestige does not involve themselves with any Alliance, and just deals with the Planemeld:
Dominion: Falls because of internal strife.
Covenant: Falls due to Emeric's madness (Daedric).
Pact: Well, it's the Pact, does it really need explaining?

And tell me, do you sincerely believe that in a time of such termoil, many accounts would survive? Especially considering this timeframe paints Cyrodiil as the land of Daedra worshippers? You think that Tiber Septim's Colovian Legions would want to be reminded of this dark past?

AuraNebula

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Pretty sure the lore will just write it off as a dragon break. Actually this whole game could then be considered a dragon break.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Nothing in ESO implies even a bit that a Dragon Break is taking place.

Really 3 factions fighting for control of Tamriel isn't going to be considered a dragon break? Who's going to win? Is no one going to win? Are all 3 going to win? With a dragon break all that is possible.

How about: None of them wins?

If we are to say the Vestige does not involve themselves with any Alliance, and just deals with the Planemeld:
Dominion: Falls because of internal strife.
Covenant: Falls due to Emeric's madness (Daedric).
Pact: Well, it's the Pact, does it really need explaining?

And tell me, do you sincerely believe that in a time of such termoil, many accounts would survive? Especially considering this timeframe paints Cyrodiil as the land of Daedra worshippers? You think that Tiber Septim's Colovian Legions would want to be reminded of this dark past?

If during times of turmoil, history is unable to be recorded then how do you explain all the recorded events prior and post ESO era that were recorded? If that were the case than all of the game Oblivion would not have been recorded. Smh.

Edit: "It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet

Seems like a dragon break to me.

Bruccius

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Pretty sure the lore will just write it off as a dragon break. Actually this whole game could then be considered a dragon break.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Nothing in ESO implies even a bit that a Dragon Break is taking place.

Really 3 factions fighting for control of Tamriel isn't going to be considered a dragon break? Who's going to win? Is no one going to win? Are all 3 going to win? With a dragon break all that is possible.

How about: None of them wins?

If we are to say the Vestige does not involve themselves with any Alliance, and just deals with the Planemeld:
Dominion: Falls because of internal strife.
Covenant: Falls due to Emeric's madness (Daedric).
Pact: Well, it's the Pact, does it really need explaining?

And tell me, do you sincerely believe that in a time of such termoil, many accounts would survive? Especially considering this timeframe paints Cyrodiil as the land of Daedra worshippers? You think that Tiber Septim's Colovian Legions would want to be reminded of this dark past?

If during times of turmoil, history is unable to be recorded then how do you explain all the recorded events prior and post ESO era that were recorded? If that were the case than all of the game Oblivion would not have been recorded. Smh.

Edit: "It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet

Seems like a dragon break to me.

Keyword is during. Records of that time are easily lost.

And no, that's not a Dragonbreak. Do you even know what a Dragonbreak is?

AuraNebula

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Pretty sure the lore will just write it off as a dragon break. Actually this whole game could then be considered a dragon break.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Nothing in ESO implies even a bit that a Dragon Break is taking place.

Really 3 factions fighting for control of Tamriel isn't going to be considered a dragon break? Who's going to win? Is no one going to win? Are all 3 going to win? With a dragon break all that is possible.

How about: None of them wins?

If we are to say the Vestige does not involve themselves with any Alliance, and just deals with the Planemeld:
Dominion: Falls because of internal strife.
Covenant: Falls due to Emeric's madness (Daedric).
Pact: Well, it's the Pact, does it really need explaining?

And tell me, do you sincerely believe that in a time of such termoil, many accounts would survive? Especially considering this timeframe paints Cyrodiil as the land of Daedra worshippers? You think that Tiber Septim's Colovian Legions would want to be reminded of this dark past?

If during times of turmoil, history is unable to be recorded then how do you explain all the recorded events prior and post ESO era that were recorded? If that were the case than all of the game Oblivion would not have been recorded. Smh.

Edit: "It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet

Seems like a dragon break to me.

Keyword is during. Records of that time are easily lost.

And no, that's not a Dragonbreak. Do you even know what a Dragonbreak is?

Doesn't mean they are always lost. So during Oblivion no one had time to keep records. Right? TBH you're just speculating and so am I. So neither of us are right or wrong. And yes I do know what a dragon break is. That is a comment from the Prophet, implying that a dragon break could be taking place.

"A Dragon Break, sometimes referred to as an un-time, is a temporal phenomenon that involves a splitting of the natural timeline which results in branching parallel realities where the same events occur differently, or not at all. This results in a return to the non-linear timeline of the Dawn Era. At the end of a Dragon Break, the timeline reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though contradictory to each other."


It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet


Do you even know what a dragon break is?

Besides during dragon breaks time is hard to record, since there are so many timelines. However they do still occur and are still recorded. So if anything your just making a dragon break a stronger theory.

Claudman

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Pretty sure the lore will just write it off as a dragon break. Actually this whole game could then be considered a dragon break.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Nothing in ESO implies even a bit that a Dragon Break is taking place.

Really 3 factions fighting for control of Tamriel isn't going to be considered a dragon break? Who's going to win? Is no one going to win? Are all 3 going to win? With a dragon break all that is possible.

How about: None of them wins?

If we are to say the Vestige does not involve themselves with any Alliance, and just deals with the Planemeld:
Dominion: Falls because of internal strife.
Covenant: Falls due to Emeric's madness (Daedric).
Pact: Well, it's the Pact, does it really need explaining?

And tell me, do you sincerely believe that in a time of such termoil, many accounts would survive? Especially considering this timeframe paints Cyrodiil as the land of Daedra worshippers? You think that Tiber Septim's Colovian Legions would want to be reminded of this dark past?

If during times of turmoil, history is unable to be recorded then how do you explain all the recorded events prior and post ESO era that were recorded? If that were the case than all of the game Oblivion would not have been recorded. Smh.

Edit: "It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet

Seems like a dragon break to me.

Keyword is during. Records of that time are easily lost.

And no, that's not a Dragonbreak. Do you even know what a Dragonbreak is?

Doesn't mean they are always lost. So during Oblivion no one had time to keep records. Right? TBH you're just speculating and so am I. So neither of us are right or wrong. And yes I do know what a dragon break is. That is a comment from the Prophet, implying that a dragon break could be taking place.

"A Dragon Break, sometimes referred to as an un-time, is a temporal phenomenon that involves a splitting of the natural timeline which results in branching parallel realities where the same events occur differently, or not at all. This results in a return to the non-linear timeline of the Dawn Era. At the end of a Dragon Break, the timeline reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though contradictory to each other."


It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet


Do you even know what a dragon break is?

Besides during dragon breaks time is hard to record, since there are so many timelines. However they do still occur and are still recorded. So if anything your just making a dragon break a stronger theory.

It's probably best to let the writers in Zenimax (or the events/lore of later DLCs) confirm it or deny it instead of going off pure speculation based on the dialog of one NPC.

AuraNebula

Claudman wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Pretty sure the lore will just write it off as a dragon break. Actually this whole game could then be considered a dragon break.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Nothing in ESO implies even a bit that a Dragon Break is taking place.

Really 3 factions fighting for control of Tamriel isn't going to be considered a dragon break? Who's going to win? Is no one going to win? Are all 3 going to win? With a dragon break all that is possible.

How about: None of them wins?

If we are to say the Vestige does not involve themselves with any Alliance, and just deals with the Planemeld:
Dominion: Falls because of internal strife.
Covenant: Falls due to Emeric's madness (Daedric).
Pact: Well, it's the Pact, does it really need explaining?

And tell me, do you sincerely believe that in a time of such termoil, many accounts would survive? Especially considering this timeframe paints Cyrodiil as the land of Daedra worshippers? You think that Tiber Septim's Colovian Legions would want to be reminded of this dark past?

If during times of turmoil, history is unable to be recorded then how do you explain all the recorded events prior and post ESO era that were recorded? If that were the case than all of the game Oblivion would not have been recorded. Smh.

Edit: "It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet

Seems like a dragon break to me.

Keyword is during. Records of that time are easily lost.

And no, that's not a Dragonbreak. Do you even know what a Dragonbreak is?

Doesn't mean they are always lost. So during Oblivion no one had time to keep records. Right? TBH you're just speculating and so am I. So neither of us are right or wrong. And yes I do know what a dragon break is. That is a comment from the Prophet, implying that a dragon break could be taking place.

"A Dragon Break, sometimes referred to as an un-time, is a temporal phenomenon that involves a splitting of the natural timeline which results in branching parallel realities where the same events occur differently, or not at all. This results in a return to the non-linear timeline of the Dawn Era. At the end of a Dragon Break, the timeline reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though contradictory to each other."


It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet


Do you even know what a dragon break is?

Besides during dragon breaks time is hard to record, since there are so many timelines. However they do still occur and are still recorded. So if anything your just making a dragon break a stronger theory.

It's probably best to let the writers in Zenimax (or the events/lore of later DLCs) confirm it or deny it instead of going off pure speculation based on the dialog of one NPC.

I mean they wrote the game and wrote what The Prophet said so...besides what fun is lore if everything is just fact. So yeah speculating is part of the fun.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

Matt Firor explicitly said that ESO is not during a Dragon Break.

Claudman

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Matt Firor explicitly said that ESO is not during a Dragon Break.

Well...

There ye have it.

baltic1284

Claudman wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Matt Firor explicitly said that ESO is not during a Dragon Break.

Well...

There ye have it.

Pretty much, I can later the warp in the west having a effect but not a Dragon Break as you stated Matt said so cant argu with that source.

Korah_Eaglecry

baltic1284 wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Matt Firor explicitly said that ESO is not during a Dragon Break.

Well...

There ye have it.

Pretty much, I can later the warp in the west having a effect but not a Dragon Break as you stated Matt said so cant argu with that source.

That comment is highly debatable as far as what he meant there. Matts response doesnt actually make a lick of sense in regards to the question. Hes asked if the game takes place during a Dragon Break and he responds "No. Its canon.". He goes on to explain at what period in the timeline does the game take place. His response would make much more sense if the question was "Is ESO canon?". So it begs the question, does Matt understand the context of the question or is he inferring a different meaning to the question?

Quite a few people in the comments in that particular thread bring up the point that many of ESOs naysayers have tried to use a Dragon Break argument to handwave away ESOs story. If Matt is aware of this argument he might think that that is what this question is implying.

baltic1284

This is what Matt said for the record based of the link provided
Matt Firor : No. It's canon. It's part of the world. Bethesda said that many times too. It's just we are seven-hundred years before TESIV:Oblivion and almost one thousand years before TESV:Skyrim. There's a lot of time for things to happen. But there is lore that there were dragons in Tamriel in between the point in the futur in Skyrim. It's just no one had ever talked about it.


This is according to what I could find ESO is 2E 583 if the source is right and the last ever redorced Dragon with a date attached is Nahfahlaar is in 2E 369. That is 214 years before ESO start date in the second era, now is it long before TESIV and well longer before TESV yes. But to say little is written about it not true also there are a lot of lore books on the Dragons it self. there is even a list of known dragon sighting in the Dragon Atlas here https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Atlas_of_Dragons some have dates and some don't and sightings but nothing more the newest sighting with a date was Nahfahlaar others don't have a date attached to a sighting or a death. No report that I can find of any Dragons in Elswyer or anywhere outside Skyrim except for Nahfahlaar which was in Wayrest but that is back in 2E 369.
Only other one is Nafaalilargus which is assumed to also be Nahfahlaar by the blades and was under employ by Tiber Septim but was dead by 2E 864 according to UESP, which is almost 600 plus years before TES IV, and even that information is debatable. Whether Tiiber Spetim had a Dragon is even debated as according to the Official Blades information the last Dragon with a recorded date is 2E 369 as Nahfahlaar which according to some sources is also Nafaalilargus. But to say there was very little information is wrong as there is a lot of Information on it on the lore sites and Dragons in General and the Blades which evolved form the Dragongaurd kept good records of Dragons.
Over all the information used to justify it is sketchy at best and information used saying yes is worse as no recorded Dragon was reported outside of Skyrim on Tamriel, and information on Atmora and Akavir comes hard to come by also for Atmora it is threw the Dragon Priest and on Akavier comes from second hand sources that are pretty biased. Only Dragon Left is Ka Po' Tun and that isn't even confirmed information just a lot say with books saying a the Cat like Species in Akavir became a Dragon but no real solid evidence as no game has been made in Akavier yet. So a lot of conflicting information on the whole subject over all may have to do more digging around but that is probably the best there is for now that could make sense of for now will update if needed once more information is found.

ThanatosXR

What's the story some old guy whinning and some ,get this bad man trying to pull up the world with anchors

Bruccius

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Pretty sure the lore will just write it off as a dragon break. Actually this whole game could then be considered a dragon break.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Nothing in ESO implies even a bit that a Dragon Break is taking place.

Really 3 factions fighting for control of Tamriel isn't going to be considered a dragon break? Who's going to win? Is no one going to win? Are all 3 going to win? With a dragon break all that is possible.

How about: None of them wins?

If we are to say the Vestige does not involve themselves with any Alliance, and just deals with the Planemeld:
Dominion: Falls because of internal strife.
Covenant: Falls due to Emeric's madness (Daedric).
Pact: Well, it's the Pact, does it really need explaining?

And tell me, do you sincerely believe that in a time of such termoil, many accounts would survive? Especially considering this timeframe paints Cyrodiil as the land of Daedra worshippers? You think that Tiber Septim's Colovian Legions would want to be reminded of this dark past?

If during times of turmoil, history is unable to be recorded then how do you explain all the recorded events prior and post ESO era that were recorded? If that were the case than all of the game Oblivion would not have been recorded. Smh.

Edit: "It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet

Seems like a dragon break to me.

Keyword is during. Records of that time are easily lost.

And no, that's not a Dragonbreak. Do you even know what a Dragonbreak is?

Doesn't mean they are always lost. So during Oblivion no one had time to keep records. Right? TBH you're just speculating and so am I. So neither of us are right or wrong. And yes I do know what a dragon break is. That is a comment from the Prophet, implying that a dragon break could be taking place.

"A Dragon Break, sometimes referred to as an un-time, is a temporal phenomenon that involves a splitting of the natural timeline which results in branching parallel realities where the same events occur differently, or not at all. This results in a return to the non-linear timeline of the Dawn Era. At the end of a Dragon Break, the timeline reconnects making all possibilities and outcomes truth, though contradictory to each other."


It's good to see you again. And I do see you, in my own way. You are a wound in time, a tear in reality that shouldn't exist and cannot long endure." - The Prophet


Do you even know what a dragon break is?

Besides during dragon breaks time is hard to record, since there are so many timelines. However they do still occur and are still recorded. So if anything your just making a dragon break a stronger theory.

There is nothing to imply that multiple timelines are taking place. Your evidence for a ''Dragon break'' is severely lacking.

Bruccius

baltic1284 wrote: »

This is what Matt said for the record based of the link provided
Matt Firor : No. It's canon. It's part of the world. Bethesda said that many times too. It's just we are seven-hundred years before TESIV:Oblivion and almost one thousand years before TESV:Skyrim. There's a lot of time for things to happen. But there is lore that there were dragons in Tamriel in between the point in the futur in Skyrim. It's just no one had ever talked about it.


This is according to what I could find ESO is 2E 583 if the source is right and the last ever redorced Dragon with a date attached is Nahfahlaar is in 2E 369. That is 214 years before ESO start date in the second era, now is it long before TESIV and well longer before TESV yes. But to say little is written about it not true also there are a lot of lore books on the Dragons it self. there is even a list of known dragon sighting in the Dragon Atlas here https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Atlas_of_Dragons some have dates and some don't and sightings but nothing more the newest sighting with a date was Nahfahlaar others don't have a date attached to a sighting or a death. No report that I can find of any Dragons in Elswyer or anywhere outside Skyrim except for Nahfahlaar which was in Wayrest but that is back in 2E 369.
Only other one is Nafaalilargus which is assumed to also be Nahfahlaar by the blades and was under employ by Tiber Septim but was dead by 2E 864 according to UESP, which is almost 600 plus years before TES IV, and even that information is debatable. Whether Tiiber Spetim had a Dragon is even debated as according to the Official Blades information the last Dragon with a recorded date is 2E 369 as Nahfahlaar which according to some sources is also Nafaalilargus. But to say there was very little information is wrong as there is a lot of Information on it on the lore sites and Dragons in General and the Blades which evolved form the Dragongaurd kept good records of Dragons.
Over all the information used to justify it is sketchy at best and information used saying yes is worse as no recorded Dragon was reported outside of Skyrim on Tamriel, and information on Atmora and Akavir comes hard to come by also for Atmora it is threw the Dragon Priest and on Akavier comes from second hand sources that are pretty biased. Only Dragon Left is Ka Po' Tun and that isn't even confirmed information just a lot say with books saying a the Cat like Species in Akavir became a Dragon but no real solid evidence as no game has been made in Akavier yet. So a lot of conflicting information on the whole subject over all may have to do more digging around but that is probably the best there is for now that could make sense of for now will update if needed once more information is found.

Problem here is that you're using sources from Skyrim as a means to prove that Dragons didn't exist outside of Skyrim. Other evidence existed in the Pocket Guide and TESA: Redguard.

Skyrim made most of the lore on Dragons. That doesn't magically make ESO making more lore on them somehow ''lore breaking''. In Skyrim no mention of the Dragons in Cyrodiil was made. Does that mean Cyrodiil didn't have Dragons? No.

I recommend you read up on the Dragonguard. Dragons are native to Akavir; hence why the definition of the name is ''Dragon land''. The Dragonguard were hunting the Dragons when they came to Tamriel. The idea that the Dragons would remain in Skyrim - after the Dragonguard conquered that entire province - is pretty unrealistic.

Elsonso

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Matt Firor explicitly said that ESO is not during a Dragon Break.

That's what I remember seeing. Thanks for posting this because I certainly did not have the time to track that down last night.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Quite a few people in the comments in that particular thread bring up the point that many of ESOs naysayers have tried to use a Dragon Break argument to handwave away ESOs story. If Matt is aware of this argument he might think that that is what this question is implying.

That is exactly what the question is implying. Dragon break is the solution to the whole lore continuity and lore canon questions. This solution allows ZOS to do as they please because ESO will be erased from history when BGS does TES 6.

This thread walks on well worn turf, in this respect.

In that answer, Firor answers the question that resulted in the dragon break solution that is being asked about. (Edit: the answer that resulted in the dragon break solution was wrong. ESO is canon and is part of the history of the world. That negates the need for the dragon break solution.)

Korah_Eaglecry

lordrichter wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Matt Firor explicitly said that ESO is not during a Dragon Break.

That's what I remember seeing. Thanks for posting this because I certainly did not have the time to track that down last night.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Quite a few people in the comments in that particular thread bring up the point that many of ESOs naysayers have tried to use a Dragon Break argument to handwave away ESOs story. If Matt is aware of this argument he might think that that is what this question is implying.

That is exactly what the question is implying. Dragon break is the solution to the whole lore continuity and lore canon questions. This solution allows ZOS to do as they please because ESO will be erased from history when BGS does TES 6.

This thread walks on well worn turf, in this respect.

In that answer, Firor answers the question that resulted in the dragon break solution that is being asked about. (Edit: the answer that resulted in the dragon break solution was wrong. ESO is canon and is part of the history of the world. That negates the need for the dragon break solution.)

Thats not how Dragon Breaks are used. The entire point of Dragon Breaks is to make every option, regardless of how much it conflicts with others, the option that happened. In other words there is no wrong choice for the player and even if you chose Option 1 and I chose Option 2. Both options happened and are canon. And this is why ESO has been heavily questioned on whether its in a Dragon Break or not. Because with millions of players doing the content when they want and how they want and many of the quests having different endings. People are genuinely curious about how ZOS will reconcile players choices and what is and isnt canon based on those choices. A Dragon Break according to the lore would make all options canon.

But according to TESLore on Reddit there has been a group of naysayers, fans that loathe ESO that have misused the term Dragon Break to try and handwave the events of ESO as not being canon and dismissing its impact on the franchises lore. This is likely because theres a group of fans that really dislike the idea of Dragon Breaks. So since they dont like Dragon Breaks and they dont like ESO they use them collectively to dismiss ESOs place in the franchise.

The question asked to Matt about a Dragon Break follows a question about the Wrathstone, a tablet broken down the middle with the head of a dragon at its center. Some people interpreted this tablets appearance as a hint to a Dragon Break in ESO. In full context, his answer about Dragon Breaks doesnt make sense unless he was under the impression the question implied the game wasnt canon. But traditionally Dragon Breaks has nothing to do with erasing choices or making something non-canon.

baltic1284

Bruccius wrote: »

baltic1284 wrote: »

This is what Matt said for the record based of the link provided
Matt Firor : No. It's canon. It's part of the world. Bethesda said that many times too. It's just we are seven-hundred years before TESIV:Oblivion and almost one thousand years before TESV:Skyrim. There's a lot of time for things to happen. But there is lore that there were dragons in Tamriel in between the point in the futur in Skyrim. It's just no one had ever talked about it.


This is according to what I could find ESO is 2E 583 if the source is right and the last ever redorced Dragon with a date attached is Nahfahlaar is in 2E 369. That is 214 years before ESO start date in the second era, now is it long before TESIV and well longer before TESV yes. But to say little is written about it not true also there are a lot of lore books on the Dragons it self. there is even a list of known dragon sighting in the Dragon Atlas here https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Atlas_of_Dragons some have dates and some don't and sightings but nothing more the newest sighting with a date was Nahfahlaar others don't have a date attached to a sighting or a death. No report that I can find of any Dragons in Elswyer or anywhere outside Skyrim except for Nahfahlaar which was in Wayrest but that is back in 2E 369.
Only other one is Nafaalilargus which is assumed to also be Nahfahlaar by the blades and was under employ by Tiber Septim but was dead by 2E 864 according to UESP, which is almost 600 plus years before TES IV, and even that information is debatable. Whether Tiiber Spetim had a Dragon is even debated as according to the Official Blades information the last Dragon with a recorded date is 2E 369 as Nahfahlaar which according to some sources is also Nafaalilargus. But to say there was very little information is wrong as there is a lot of Information on it on the lore sites and Dragons in General and the Blades which evolved form the Dragongaurd kept good records of Dragons.
Over all the information used to justify it is sketchy at best and information used saying yes is worse as no recorded Dragon was reported outside of Skyrim on Tamriel, and information on Atmora and Akavir comes hard to come by also for Atmora it is threw the Dragon Priest and on Akavier comes from second hand sources that are pretty biased. Only Dragon Left is Ka Po' Tun and that isn't even confirmed information just a lot say with books saying a the Cat like Species in Akavir became a Dragon but no real solid evidence as no game has been made in Akavier yet. So a lot of conflicting information on the whole subject over all may have to do more digging around but that is probably the best there is for now that could make sense of for now will update if needed once more information is found.

Problem here is that you're using sources from Skyrim as a means to prove that Dragons didn't exist outside of Skyrim. Other evidence existed in the Pocket Guide and TESA: Redguard.

Skyrim made most of the lore on Dragons. That doesn't magically make ESO making more lore on them somehow ''lore breaking''. In Skyrim no mention of the Dragons in Cyrodiil was made. Does that mean Cyrodiil didn't have Dragons? No.

I recommend you read up on the Dragonguard. Dragons are native to Akavir; hence why the definition of the name is ''Dragon land''. The Dragonguard were hunting the Dragons when they came to Tamriel. The idea that the Dragons would remain in Skyrim - after the Dragonguard conquered that entire province - is pretty unrealistic.

No did I say the evidence didn't say they didn't I just said what is there in the Lore of Skyrim still sifting threw a lot of it nor did I say adding theme later was lore breaking at all just debatable. Most of the Dragons didn't have dates but had locations but no dates themselves doesn't mean the company cant add more I don't have a problem with theme adding Dragons themselves also I didn't say Dragons are From Skyrim. The fact that Akavier is named Dragon land implies they are from there but again little information is known who and how many where slain there so again a lack of information from Akavier on that only one known is Ka Pu Ton and reading on that implies more propaganda than fact there too. SO again you may re read the post and stop assuming I am against it all. No evidence up to dat so far implies that all dragons where in Skyrim or Atmor or Akavier even the Dragons from Cyrodiil you claim has very little proof just cause one book series has it written from one point of view doesn't mean it isn't lore just may not be honest either. Take Numedium as an example multiple sources from multiple location make the same claim only Pocket guide and most of what happened in Redgaurd is even rare book wise after the game in Morrowind Obivion and Skyrim. Even the dates in Redguard don't match later books right doesn't mean it didn't happen just not a lot of evidence on it book wise.

baltic1284

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Matt Firor explicitly said that ESO is not during a Dragon Break.

That's what I remember seeing. Thanks for posting this because I certainly did not have the time to track that down last night.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Quite a few people in the comments in that particular thread bring up the point that many of ESOs naysayers have tried to use a Dragon Break argument to handwave away ESOs story. If Matt is aware of this argument he might think that that is what this question is implying.

That is exactly what the question is implying. Dragon break is the solution to the whole lore continuity and lore canon questions. This solution allows ZOS to do as they please because ESO will be erased from history when BGS does TES 6.

This thread walks on well worn turf, in this respect.

In that answer, Firor answers the question that resulted in the dragon break solution that is being asked about. (Edit: the answer that resulted in the dragon break solution was wrong. ESO is canon and is part of the history of the world. That negates the need for the dragon break solution.)

Thats not how Dragon Breaks are used. The entire point of Dragon Breaks is to make every option, regardless of how much it conflicts with others, the option that happened. In other words there is no wrong choice for the player and even if you chose Option 1 and I chose Option 2. Both options happened and are canon. And this is why ESO has been heavily questioned on whether its in a Dragon Break or not. Because with millions of players doing the content when they want and how they want and many of the quests having different endings. People are genuinely curious about how ZOS will reconcile players choices and what is and isnt canon based on those choices. A Dragon Break according to the lore would make all options canon.

But according to TESLore on Reddit there has been a group of naysayers, fans that loathe ESO that have misused the term Dragon Break to try and handwave the events of ESO as not being canon and dismissing its impact on the franchises lore. This is likely because theres a group of fans that really dislike the idea of Dragon Breaks. So since they dont like Dragon Breaks and they dont like ESO they use them collectively to dismiss ESOs place in the franchise.

The question asked to Matt about a Dragon Break follows a question about the Wrathstone, a tablet broken down the middle with the head of a dragon at its center. Some people interpreted this tablets appearance as a hint to a Dragon Break in ESO. In full context, his answer about Dragon Breaks doesnt make sense unless he was under the impression the question implied the game wasnt canon. But traditionally Dragon Breaks has nothing to do with erasing choices or making something non-canon.

my theory isn't what happened in ESO isn't lore or anything like that, my theory is that the Warp in the West had a far more wider impact than just the Illianc Bay area. There isn't much books lore wise on Dragons outside of Skyrim except in one book series written from an Imperial perspective and one in Redgaurd, other than that , that's is it more written on Dragons mainly in skyrim by the Dragon Atlas than any other source, and that was written by the Dragongaurd that was to kill Dragons think theme tracking Dragons location be spot on.
Doesn't mean they could have been outside of Skyrim, just not a lot of books on that subject at the moment doesn't mean could be changed in later TES installments, just at the moment nothing on Dragons being outside of Skyrim except one Dragon in Weyrest and one possible report in Morrowind but that report is sketchy as it doesn't have a date and no other mentions of it.

Elsonso

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Thats not how Dragon Breaks are used. The entire point of Dragon Breaks is to make every option, regardless of how much it conflicts with others, the option that happened.

Yes, but keep in mind that there are no hard and fast rules as to what a "dragon break" is. It is pretty much whatever the writers want it to be, whenever they want it to be. Lore vs reality.

All we know is how it was used the one and only time it has been used for a practical application. If ESO is in one, then it would be the second practical application. ESO is not in the same situation as Daggerfall, with the exception of some relatively minor plot points that can be attributed to transcription errors from an unreliable narrator. A dragon break like "Warp in the West" is not necessary for ESO.

In order to meet the needs of the people who do not think that ESO is canon, or that ESO breaks the lore, a negation of those ESO events needs to happen. This is the opposite of what was done in Warp in the West, but it is in the same conceptual space as it. That is why it gets floated as a solution. It isn't in today's definition of dragon break, but it could easily be in tomorrow's.

Of course, they can also invent a brand new literary device to handle the erasure of the ESO events, which is why it is so important that Firor did not answer the dragon break question directly. The bigger question is whether ZOS and BGS need to come up with a literary device to erase ESO from history. Based on Firor's answer, it does not appear to be needed. As I suggest above, this completely negates the idea that we are in a dragon break. There is no need for it. We are not in the same situation as Daggerfall. There is no need to come up with a scheme to erase ESO from history, whether that be an updated dragon break or something entirely new.

By the way, this comment from Firor is not the first reference to the fact that ESO is not in a dragon break. It is the most recent, but not the first.

baltic1284

lordrichter wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Thats not how Dragon Breaks are used. The entire point of Dragon Breaks is to make every option, regardless of how much it conflicts with others, the option that happened.

Yes, but keep in mind that there are no hard and fast rules as to what a "dragon break" is. It is pretty much whatever the writers want it to be, whenever they want it to be. Lore vs reality.

All we know is how it was used the one and only time it has been used for a practical application. If ESO is in one, then it would be the second practical application. ESO is not in the same situation as Daggerfall, with the exception of some relatively minor plot points that can be attributed to transcription errors from an unreliable narrator. A dragon break like "Warp in the West" is not necessary for ESO.

In order to meet the needs of the people who do not think that ESO is canon, or that ESO breaks the lore, a negation of those ESO events needs to happen. This is the opposite of what was done in Warp in the West, but it is in the same conceptual space as it. That is why it gets floated as a solution. It isn't in today's definition of dragon break, but it could easily be in tomorrow's.

Of course, they can also invent a brand new literary device to handle the erasure of the ESO events, which is why it is so important that Firor did not answer the dragon break question directly. The bigger question is whether ZOS and BGS need to come up with a literary device to erase ESO from history. Based on Firor's answer, it does not appear to be needed. As I suggest above, this completely negates the idea that we are in a dragon break. There is no need for it. We are not in the same situation as Daggerfall. There is no need to come up with a scheme to erase ESO from history, whether that be an updated dragon break or something entirely new.

By the way, this comment from Firor is not the first reference to the fact that ESO is not in a dragon break. It is the most recent, but not the first.

By far not the most common but is the most recent, another problem they have is explaining how Dragons are in Elswyre considering most current information states that all known Dragons to date where in Skyrim, ones in Akavier and Armora are not mentioned a lot as far as names and such and dates. Most reports put theme around Skyrim and two reports say one in Wayrest has a date that either the dragon was ended or the protection that was given was in 2E369 the other was in Morrowind and that report just say that there was a report of one but nothing else on it. Even reports of a Dragon used by Tiber Septim only has one book Pocket Guide to the Empire mentions only in the 3rd edition so far the other no mention at all, and a game Redgaurd which the events in that game isn't mentioned much at all after the after the game itself not uch in Morrowind Obivlion or Skyrim to date.

Course it can be with TESVI which many suspect will be in Hammefell that can easily change but so far not much is mentioned. So eb interesting n how they do that doesn't mean what has happened in ESO didn't happen the events being in a Dragon Break I can see as being a little far but the fact the Warp in The West could have had a larger impact I can see. Considering multiple sources in ESO the devs and such say the game itself isn't in a Dragon Break kinda syas it isn't doesn't mean one could have changed things either.

Korah_Eaglecry

lordrichter wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Thats not how Dragon Breaks are used. The entire point of Dragon Breaks is to make every option, regardless of how much it conflicts with others, the option that happened.

Yes, but keep in mind that there are no hard and fast rules as to what a "dragon break" is. It is pretty much whatever the writers want it to be, whenever they want it to be. Lore vs reality.

Except currently it is exactly as I described it so whether they change it in the future or not. When people generally speak of Dragon Breaks this is exactly what they are referencing. If ZOS has decided to go a different direction on how Dragon Breaks work, or to add something to it. They havent shared that with us. And that would be a conversation in of itself if they did.

All we know is how it was used the one and only time it has been used for a practical application. If ESO is in one, then it would be the second practical application. ESO is not in the same situation as Daggerfall, with the exception of some relatively minor plot points that can be attributed to transcription errors from an unreliable narrator. A dragon break like "Warp in the West" is not necessary for ESO.

ESO doesnt need to be in the same situation as Daggerfall for there to be a Dragon Break. While there hasnt been more than 1 confirmed Dragon Break during a game, there has been a number of them over the course of the history of Tamriel. So we do have an idea of how they work in general.

In order to meet the needs of the people who do not think that ESO is canon, or that ESO breaks the lore, a negation of those ESO events needs to happen. This is the opposite of what was done in Warp in the West, but it is in the same conceptual space as it. That is why it gets floated as a solution. It isn't in today's definition of dragon break, but it could easily be in tomorrow's.

No, no it doesnt. If it is canon, it is canon. No one, not the writers at ZOS or those at Bethesda have to jump through any hoops to appease a subset of lorebeards that cant get passed ESO being apart of the franchise. Those fans can either get over it or draw up whatever headcanon they want, but at the end of the day Bethesda has the final say in what is included. I have never seen anyone seriously float a Dragon Break as a way to erase the actions of other players. Ive only heard of it through TESLore, which has a lot of headcanon floating around in it that is not kosher with the actual lore. Most of the people over on that subreddit has warmed to ESO and has come to accept it as a part of the larger franchise. You rarely see anyone talking negatively about it anymore. All that matters is what todays definition is. We can debate until the moon turns to cheese on whether Dragon Breaks can erase events. But right here, right now according to the lore, it solidifies events regardless if they conflict or not.

Of course, they can also invent a brand new literary device to handle the erasure of the ESO events, which is why it is so important that Firor did not answer the dragon break question directly. The bigger question is whether ZOS and BGS need to come up with a literary device to erase ESO from history. Based on Firor's answer, it does not appear to be needed. As I suggest above, this completely negates the idea that we are in a dragon break. There is no need for it. We are not in the same situation as Daggerfall. There is no need to come up with a scheme to erase ESO from history, whether that be an updated dragon break or something entirely new.

Again, Daggerfall and ESO do not need to be in the same situation to create a Dragon Break. They have occurred in Tamriels history numerous times. Whether ESO has been in a Dragon Break or not, or some other literary device is yet to be seen.

By the way, this comment from Firor is not the first reference to the fact that ESO is not in a dragon break. It is the most recent, but not the first.

Yet its the only one that seems to have appeared here even after people have challenged the idea that ZOS has commented on the Dragon Break topic in the past. Where is your source of these other comments?

Emma_Overload

I think it would be really funny if THIS is why ZOS' Loremaster retired!

baltic1284

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I think it would be really funny if THIS is why ZOS' Loremaster retired!

I wouldn't put it past him seems this subject is hot on both sides, those that try to prove it never happened and those that see it could have happened and something else happened to change it. Just look at the topic on Dragons not found anywhere else but in what is known. Only Dragons where reported outside of Skyrim in Tamriel and one of those is debated and the other has no date on the report.

Elsonso

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Thats not how Dragon Breaks are used. The entire point of Dragon Breaks is to make every option, regardless of how much it conflicts with others, the option that happened.

Yes, but keep in mind that there are no hard and fast rules as to what a "dragon break" is. It is pretty much whatever the writers want it to be, whenever they want it to be. Lore vs reality.

Except currently it is exactly as I described it so whether they change it in the future or not. When people generally speak of Dragon Breaks this is exactly what they are referencing. If ZOS has decided to go a different direction on how Dragon Breaks work, or to add something to it. They havent shared that with us. And that would be a conversation in of itself if they did.

Honestly, it would not be ZOS that goes in that direction, but BGS. The only reason they would have to do a dragon break would be due to the needs of TES 6. I can't see where ZOS has any interest in dragon breaks.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

All we know is how it was used the one and only time it has been used for a practical application. If ESO is in one, then it would be the second practical application. ESO is not in the same situation as Daggerfall, with the exception of some relatively minor plot points that can be attributed to transcription errors from an unreliable narrator. A dragon break like "Warp in the West" is not necessary for ESO.

ESO doesnt need to be in the same situation as Daggerfall for there to be a Dragon Break. While there hasnt been more than 1 confirmed Dragon Break during a game, there has been a number of them over the course of the history of Tamriel. So we do have an idea of how they work in general.

My point is that it does not matter whether we have an idea of how they work. They can change it. Would we even know of a dragon break that removed something from history? Only if it didn't work. (Note: this is a theoretical question, not something I am suggesting that ZOS or BGS do)

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

In order to meet the needs of the people who do not think that ESO is canon, or that ESO breaks the lore, a negation of those ESO events needs to happen. This is the opposite of what was done in Warp in the West, but it is in the same conceptual space as it. That is why it gets floated as a solution. It isn't in today's definition of dragon break, but it could easily be in tomorrow's.

No, no it doesnt. If it is canon, it is canon. No one, not the writers at ZOS or those at Bethesda have to jump through any hoops to appease a subset of lorebeards that cant get passed ESO being apart of the franchise. Those fans can either get over it or draw up whatever headcanon they want, but at the end of the day Bethesda has the final say in what is included.

I think we are safely on the same page here.

Kingdaboss123

What people like too forget ESO story was written in a point of no documented history leaving ZO$ too do whatever they want.