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Dragon invasion breaks the lore, we should all be dead or dying soon

Aedrion
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Well, I didn't see this lore-debacle coming in the ESO Zone-trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlBBUmWFDkU

I was sure they'd treat this part of the lore with some respect but it seems we've devolved into just another nonsensical MMO that'll *** its own lore on the altar of money.
Three dragons? Nay, let's have a whole army of them!

So here's how it goes, right?

Dragons were around in the 1st Era and before. In that time, they ruled over Tamriel, uncontested by mortals, who had no voice. Under the rule of Alduin and the dragon priests, mortals suffered and Kynareth took pity. She granted mortals a voice too and shared the Thu'um with many of them. In the great dragon war, mortals created Dragonrend, a shout able to make even the mightiest dragons vulnerable. Dragons were hunted to near extinction and the few that remained went into seclusion or hiding, biding their time until Alduin, the World Eater, would return to wake his kin and retake Nirn.

In the 4th Era, Alduin leaves the Tiid-Ahraan, the time-wound and finds his kin dead. He brings them back to life so they might again follow he whose Thu'um is mightiest. None could have challenged him or his Dovah but then there was one who could. Dovahkiin, the last Dragonborn. A single mortal with a Thu'um strong enough to rival and beat Alduin. After that, the Dov likely stopped their invasion of Tamriel, while perhaps not their attacks on mortals. A balanced peace, for now.

What do both victories over dragons have in common? Mortals with mastery of the Thu'um. First the Ancient Nords and then the dragonborn.
What do we have currently in game? No sign of the Greybeards, voiceless nords and multiple dragons seemingly able to bring their own back to life, given how many there suddenly are.

If it was three dragons, aight. You can win that one. Beat them with an army - even IF you have no Thu'um -, bury them, barricade the tombs, make sure they can't bring eachother back.
But now we've seen it's multiple dragons all over! This can't end with a clean victory, we have no dragonborn! We have no masters of the Thu'um - at least none involved. We can't kill them or keep them dead if there's a bunch of them. And even if somehow, miraculously through the power of plot, champion points and Vestige-ness we win... why wouldn't there be a record of this? Hilarious!

The 2nd dragon war wouldn't be a footnote.

Nah man, f*ck this. This is a cashgrab on the back of their own lore. ESO is turning into WoW. They'll do whatever it takes to make fans *** their pants or soak their panties and ride the lulz-train all the way to the bank.

Does anyone have an elder scroll, teleport me forward in time please so I don't need to live through this shlock.

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  • Aedrion
    Aedrion
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  • Tensar
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    dont care, dragons have arrived. IMO you cant have a fantasy game without them.

    Then how was elder scrolls serie before skyrim?
  • luizhd
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    Forgive me if I`m wring, but doesn`t ESO happen almost a millennia before Skyrim? werent Dragons resurected in the 5th game? Doesn`t that mean that dead dragons that still had their souls intact up to the point in which we control a Dragonborn could still be revived at any point in time?

    As far as I can see, Dragons coming back to life in ESO are very much Lore friendly if you follow the logic and rules set by the past games.
  • RebornV3x
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    OP is right this expansion is definitely lore breaking and I'm fine with 1 or 2 Dragon bosses in a dungeon or trial but having them fly around is BS hopefully well meet The Blades or some type of Akaviri that hunt dragons or this whole story line there making is dumb

    At the end of the day as long as the game makes more money, brings and retains more players and the game becomes more successful than lore be damn

    but its still a shame and I think it will hurt the series in the long run when the dev team just pushes aside established lore so blatantly.

    Let me guess next years chapter will be the return of the long lost Dwemer this time you will have to get 3 yes 3 stone tablets that unlocks some vault under Red Mountain and boom just like that there back only to never be seen or heard of again tell TES 3: Morrowind. also this new chapter comes with a new playable race the Dwemer cause why not.
    Edited by RebornV3x on March 28, 2019 7:51PM
    Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
    I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.
  • luizhd
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    What lore is it that everyone keeps saying they are breaking but never specify in the comments? Everything I see, while solid, still doesn`t cover 100% of the holes they could use to bring dragons back. And even if it was, the whole premise of having 3 pacts in the second age already breaks a few important lore aspects, so why is LORE such an important and sacred thing now? Lore is supposed to serve the game and make it better, not the other way around.

    Just enjoy the game, jee.

    Also, as far as I`m aware, Daggerfall introduced the concept of multiple timelines as being canon. If it bothers you so much that they are bringing a bunch of dragons into the mix, just consider ESO one of those different timelines. I highly doubt they`ll use many story arcs from ESO in TES6 anyways.
    Edited by luizhd on March 28, 2019 8:47PM
  • Aristocles22
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    Lore is still important, even in a series with a large number of cop-outs and loopholes built into it like TES (dragon breaks, transcription errors, etc). Breaking lore breaks immersion, and while lore has to serve the gameplay, the gameplay has to serve lore by not breaking it. It's a symbiotic relationship.

    Now, does this break lore? Sort of. It is a return of dragons before Alduin's return, but there were already dragons in the world before he came back from being banished by the ancient Nordic heroes. I suppose its not so much a lore break as it is underwhelming. Alduin was supposed to herald the long-prophesied return of the dragons... who already returned once before he did. If Alduin's return was like Christopher Columbus, this wave of dragons is like Leif Erikson. It happened, but it didn't really make that big of a difference. Plus, dragons were always a part of Nordic lore in TES, associated with the frozen north. Throwing them into a desert, the exact opposite of Skyrim's climate, just seems off.
  • Ysbriel
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    In a Story that has multiple timelines (The Psjic Order and Dragon Breaks proves this) nothing can really be considered lorebreaking. Even the events of the interregnum might not be part of the same timeline of the events of TES4 and TES5.
    Even Bethesda or ZOS can make a TES game where the Dwemer are still populating their cities.
  • Korah_Eaglecry
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    The only thing that needs to be explained, and can easily be done in Elder Scrolls VI is why information on the Dragons was so scarce through out the 3rd and 4th Eras. And that events like the Season of the Dragon was somehow not even a footnote in Tamriels history books during those time periods. The obvious answer is the interregnum, but some nuance and details on this would be nice. Maybe some scholars and treasure hunters uncover a treasure trove of previously lost writings on the 2nd Era.

    Nothing in the lore strictly states that things like the Season of the Dragon could not or did not occur. Especially since we know that Dragons arent completely wiped out by the Nords during the Dragon War. Prior to Schick leaving, something he said often was that he wasnt there to say no, but rather to find ways to say yes. Introducing Dragons in this manner respects the current lore but gives ZOS the opportunity to tell a new story very much in line with what could possibly happen in Tamriel during this time period.

    One way or another, the Vestige will go down in ES history as being a hero tied to some of the most epic events to occur in short order in Tamriel.
    Penniless Sellsword Company
    Captain Paramount - Jorrhaq Vhent
    Korith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the Grimjawl
    Tenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'Les
    Aban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia Severinus
    What is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax
  • Wa2p
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    Re: Not even a footnote (barring time shenanigans.):

    Molag Bal recently tried to take over Nirn. Vvardenfell almost exploded. The Crystal Tower almost sent out pure darkness to the world. Not to mention all the other zone specific bits and bobs that could be world impacting. But you know what there is a huge war going on, and even though we don't see much of it in the cities outside Cyrodiil. That's huge. Do you think Emeric really believes that three Daedric princes worked together to try to take the Crystal tower? Do you think Ayrenn really care Vvardenfell almost went boom? Hell, they couldn't even really get on to stop Molag, something that affected them all. now dragons, might be released but are only in Elsweyr?

    Ayrenn may care, but no one will believer her, and considering this war goes on and on. Until history can be written by the victor. There were rumors of things, but no one but some cats saw it while they were took over by a powerful mage. Probably just imagined it, or they were illusions, or an other series of excuses.

    I'm sure there are huge events in one culture that happened thousands of years ago, that were major at the time and people thought it would live in infamy that just aren't footnote in our actual history. History in certain ways is a very unreliable view of history. because somethings can't be corroborated -- or no one "important" cared enough to write it down. Or it never ventured out of the relatively small effected zone.
  • SantieClaws
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    Ah - this one will have what you have all been drinking please!

    There is no such thing as dragons.

    Khajiit has been to Elsweyr herself and all she saw was a really big Argonian. Yes she admits she was running quite fast at the time to avoid the threat of having to do work. (see recent article on the subject)

    All these stories made up to frighten the little kittens - and you grown warriors, traders, bards, pocket engineers and mages all believe them?!

    All is well in Elsweyr and this one is such all will still be well in a few months when we get there. It's not as if there are a bunch of these dragon things hidden away somewhere just waiting to get out.

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws
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    Find it here - https://youtube.com/user/wenxue2222

    Clan Claws - now recruiting khajiit and like minded others for parties, fishing and other khajiit stuff. Contact this one for an invite.

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  • VaranisArano
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    Lore is still important, even in a series with a large number of cop-outs and loopholes built into it like TES (dragon breaks, transcription errors, etc). Breaking lore breaks immersion, and while lore has to serve the gameplay, the gameplay has to serve lore by not breaking it. It's a symbiotic relationship.

    Now, does this break lore? Sort of. It is a return of dragons before Alduin's return, but there were already dragons in the world before he came back from being banished by the ancient Nordic heroes. I suppose its not so much a lore break as it is underwhelming. Alduin was supposed to herald the long-prophesied return of the dragons... who already returned once before he did. If Alduin's return was like Christopher Columbus, this wave of dragons is like Leif Erikson. It happened, but it didn't really make that big of a difference. Plus, dragons were always a part of Nordic lore in TES, associated with the frozen north. Throwing them into a desert, the exact opposite of Skyrim's climate, just seems off.

    The full measure of the extinction of the Dragons won't happen until the resurgence of the Akaviri Dragonguard under Tiber Septim, some 300 years in the future of ESO.

    After that, there are very, very few dragons who are driven deep into hiding. That's the event that truly makes Alduin's return herald the return of the rest of the dragons...and it hasn't happened yet.

    Besides, these guys were just locked up like the one you can fight in Blackreach. Alduin's going to be raising his dragons (except for Mirmulnir who was in hiding) from the dead.
    Edited by VaranisArano on April 3, 2019 12:16PM
  • OtarTheMad
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    Dragon's didn't go extinct until the 3rd Era, man. A direct quote from a Skyrim Lorebook:

    "The last known sighting of a dragon in Tamriel was in the time of Tiber Septim… It seems the last few vanished all at once.", meaning dragons were still around until the early Third Era.

    Even then there were exceptions. Skyrim itself gives us one, with a Dunmer having met with and recorded a conversation with a living dragon who was on Vvardenfell just after the Red Year, and there was at least one other Dragon alive and allied with the city of Daggerfall in the Third Era during the war of Betony. And now thanks to Blades, there are even more survivors.

    The last Dragonguard Dragon hunt we have on record is from 2e300, just 200 years prior to ESO. There is no lore contradiction with 7 dragons being active right now in the mid Second Era.

    ^ so much this

    That Tiber Septim quote is speaking of when he gathered up a bunch of wild dragons and made a deal with them but that deal went sour and dragons went from being loners to being invisible and that was towards the end of the second era.

    Dragons now are not even close to lore breaking, and neither is them being in Elsweyr because if dragons were running from the Nords during the Dragon War I am sure they would not be picky about where they chose to stay.
  • Katheriah
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  • JK_Knight
    JK_Knight
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    Really. If you think something is lore-breaking that's fine, but do some research about it if you're gonna make a thread about it, otherwise you're gonna look like a *** who talks about something he doesn't understand.

    The last recorded Dragons (before the events of Skyrim) were during the time of Tiber Septim who was born centuries after events of ESO.
    Sure Dragons were rare but they were in no way considered extinct. Abnur Tharn is not even surprised to find out that there are Dragons sealed in that vault.

    I myself didn't know these things until they announced Elsweyr and Dragons. Just like you I thought that Dragons were supposed to be extinct at this time but I looked it up and found this information.
  • Steelshiv
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    Just hopped in here and am enjoying the lore citations. Nice work everyone! Carry on.
  • VaranisArano
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    Smaxx wrote: »
    In the Third or Fourth Era, have you ever read about the Planemeld? No? Have you ever read about dragons in Elsweyr? No? Have you ever read about the failings of High Chancellor Abnur Tharn of the Empire under the rule of Valen Aquilarios? No? It's as if someone in a high position very adept at screwing things up while trying to do the right thing for the Empire made these recordings getting lost during the Interregnum. It was troubled times, you know?

    There's a lot of very powerful people/daedra with incentive to hide the extremely embarrassing deeds of the Vestige.
    Molag Bal
    The Daedric Triad
    Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil
    The Psijic Order, the Sapiarchs, practically all of the Summerset Isles
    Mannimarco

    Abnur is going to have plenty of allies if he proposes, "Hey, maybe if we all pretend this whole "Vestige" thing never happened..."
  • RinaldoGandolphi
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    Smaxx wrote: »
    In the Third or Fourth Era, have you ever read about the Planemeld? No? Have you ever read about dragons in Elsweyr? No? Have you ever read about the failings of High Chancellor Abnur Tharn of the Empire under the rule of Valen Aquilarios? No? It's as if someone in a high position very adept at screwing things up while trying to do the right thing for the Empire made these recordings getting lost during the Interregnum. It was troubled times, you know?

    The reason for this is because the events of ESO don't really take place in the way we think, and they do not exist in the Time Line after Tiber Septim re-lights the Dragonfires because the events of ESO are erased from the timeline.

    ESO Exists in a sort of Paradox. The game literally screams this everywhere if you pay attention to the story. The only ones not effected by this Paradox are the Daedric Princes because their planes of Oblivion exist outside of Nirn. The only ones who even remember the events of the Interegnuum are the Daedric Princes.

    The reason why the Interregnum period is shrouded in mystery has nothing to do with records being lost, it has to do with the Dragonfires being unlit for centuries, and Nirn being somewhat disconnected from time due to the Dragonfires not being lit.

    Dragons, Dragonborn, and Akatosh are all uniquely connected to time in ways mortals don't understand. Evidence that time is all screwed up and is not passing in a normal manner in ESO can be seen by Hermaus Mora drawing in books from the future from the 3rd and 4th era by authors who haven't been born yet such as Last King of the Ayleids Herminia Cinna and Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls by Septimus Signus. Herma Mora does NOT have the ability to influence time on his own, that is outside his sphere of influence, but if linear time is all screwed up, as it is in ESO, well then opportunity opens up for Herma Mora to pull in these future books. Simply put, the Soulburst did more than just remove the barriers between Oblivion, it messed with the passage of time itself. The wayshrines actually allow you travel forward and backward in time. You can do the events of Imperial City before finishing the main quest because the waywhines allow time travel due to the state of Nirn at this time.

    Herma Mora is taking advantage of the fact time is all screwed up to bring in all these books of knowledge from the future and adding them to his library because his plane of Oblivion is uneffected by such time changes so the knowledge would be preserved in his library on his plane of Oblivion.

    When Tiber Septim re-lights the Dragonfires and shouts Cyrodiil from a jungle to what it is in Oblivion and ESO it was retro-active across the timelines. This is why Cyrodiil is not a jungle at the time of ESO when it should be. Talos used the Voice and Chim to retroactivly change things, he changed the Cyrodiil of both the past and the future with the Voice and Chim with some help from White Gold.


    For whatever reason, when the Dragonfires are lit up again, Akatosh decides to erase the events of ESO....this is probably done because the Vestige borrows some of Akatosh's power to fight Molag Bal, and Akatosh can't reclaim this power with the timeline of ESO existing, and if he can't reclaim this power, then he would be unable to reach back into the past and reclaim his full power in order to be strong enough to defeat Mehrunes Dagon and end the Oblivion Crisis in the 3rdera. Remember, Akatosh knows far more about the future and time passage than any other being on Nirn.

    The player will remember the events of ESO, in fact the Vestige him/herself may still exist in Coldharbor as a Soul Shriven thus not being erased by Akatosh, but the timeline on Nirn is probably altered....

    perhaps the only Remanent of the Soulburst will be a lone book that was given to a Mage who visited Coldharbor in the 4th by a man.woman who claims they are a hero and want their memoirs published...much like a St. Jiib the Last Dragonborn ran into in the Soul Cairn in the 4th era....




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    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Ogou
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    Smaxx wrote: »
    In the Third or Fourth Era, have you ever read about the Planemeld? No? Have you ever read about dragons in Elsweyr? No? Have you ever read about the failings of High Chancellor Abnur Tharn of the Empire under the rule of Valen Aquilarios? No? It's as if someone in a high position very adept at screwing things up while trying to do the right thing for the Empire made these recordings getting lost during the Interregnum. It was troubled times, you know?

    ESO Exists in a sort of Paradox. The game literally screams this everywhere if you pay attention to the story.

    Uh... Where? Examples?
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